Player Ratings

[machoo]

When do you guys think we'll hear the first player ratings? I remember last year IGN (I think it was IGN) released the ratings of players by position. When did that happen, February? When they are released there will no doubt be some good debate in these here forums.

P.S. As a Jays fan it pains me to say this, but I think we may see the first player rated zero overall. His name is Josh Towers.

[FrenziedSokar]

ya IGN is normally pretty quick in obtaining player ratings and posting on the website, they wont post it till the rosters are set which as mentioned in another thread will be very soon

[Trevytrev11]

Last year on 02/15 they did the top 25 starters, on 02/17 they did the top 25 closers and on the 02/22 they did the top 25 hitters.

[machoo]

Last year on 02/15 they did the top 25 starters, on 02/17 they did the top 25 closers and on the 02/22 they did the top 25 hitters.

Nicely done trevytrev.

[baandje]

Player ratings - here we go again!

Expect the Red Sox, Yankees and the Dodgers to be rated high. Oh, and the Cards as well because they won the WS, except they were the worst team to ever win the WS, so they actually shouldn't be rated high. The Jays will not be rated high except for Wells and Overbay, and that's because they recently signed huge contracts, and as Kush programmers all know, a huge contract must mean the player is a superstar.

As for individual players: Randy Johnson would have been rated in the 90's had he stayed with the Yankees, but because he now pitches for one of the other 26 useless teams in the league, he'll be rated in the mid-80's (but his FB will still hit 98 mph of course because he's Randy Johnson after all). Barry Bonds - er, Joe Young - will of course have a Power rating of 99, and Nomar will be rated 99 at SS. It's like every year is 1999 as far as Kush is concerned.

[DaoudS]

lol thats why we eeeddiiittt

[baandje]

lol thats why we eeeddiiittt
Speaking of which, I just hope they've included a 'flat slider' in their list of pitches. When I face Randy, I want him throwing the actual pitches he tosses in real life.

[Art1bk]

Player ratings - here we go again!

Expect the Red Sox, Yankees and the Dodgers to be rated high. Oh, and the Cards as well because they won the WS, except they were the worst team to ever win the WS, so they actually shouldn't be rated high. The Jays will not be rated high except for Wells and Overbay, and that's because they recently signed huge contracts, and as Kush programmers all know, a huge contract must mean the player is a superstar.

As for individual players: Randy Johnson would have been rated in the 90's had he stayed with the Yankees, but because he now pitches for one of the other 26 useless teams in the league, he'll be rated in the mid-80's (but his FB will still hit 98 mph of course because he's Randy Johnson after all). Barry Bonds - er, Joe Young - will of course have a Power rating of 99, and Nomar will be rated 99 at SS. It's like every year is 1999 as far as Kush is concerned.
Well keep in mind banndje that those teams u mentioned are almost always in the playoffs and are considered baseballs top teams..

[CARDS2501]

Oh, and the Cards as well because they won the WS, except they were the worst team to ever win the WS, so they actually shouldn't be rated high.

There is nothing I hate worse than a homer but I have no choice but to respond to this. The Cardinals won 83 games in the regular season. A regular season that saw them have no 2nd baseman until they got Ronnie Belliard at the trading deadline. No left fielder for the first 2 months of the season until they called up Chris Duncan. They lost Albert Pujols for a month, David Eckstein for a month, Jim Edmonds for over 2 months, Scott Rolen was coming off of major surgery, Jason Isringhausen the closer was pitching with a bad hip all year until he was finally disabled in august. They used a rotation that included Sidney Ponson until he was released and the got Jeff Weaver. Then the playoffs came and suddenly every with the exception of Izzy was healthy and what did they do? The breezed through the playoffs and won the whole freaking thing. I feel that it is fair to say that if they didn't have half of the injuries that they had this season that they would have easily won 90 games and this worst best team label they have would never have been placed on them.

[Trevytrev11]

Until they can calculate Team Chemistry, there are always going to be teams with unfair ratings. A good chemistry would improve the overall rating of the team.

Take the Yankees and the A's. On paper, the A's don't really compare to the Yankee's. The Yankee's are a team full of All Stars and the A's get one All Star every year simply because they are forced to fill the roster with at least one player from every team.

But, these two teams play eachother tight every year. Last year, the A's were plagued by injuries probably as bad as anyone in baseball and they still managed to win 93 games. Even with the Yankees injuries to Sheffield and Matsui, they still had the most potent lineup in the MLB and managed only 4 more wins.

Without any sort of chemistry, I kind of see the Yankee's as a team in the low 90's and the A's in the high 70's or low 80's. But when you factor in chemistry, I think they both end up somewhere in the Mid 80's. How else do you explain a team like the Tigers or Twins or A's or Padres. These are teams that on paper, are maybe above average, but because they have some chemistry (or other "it" factor) they are more sucecssful than teams with more talent.

I think simply a teams rating should be an average of it's players. A team with half studs and half scrubs ends up pretty average, where as a team full of half average players andhalf above average players would rank slightly above average.

As far as chemistry goes I see it like this.

A team with good chemistry or a high chemistry: When the team plays well, everyone is doing there job. When the team isn't playing well as a whole a player or two does something extroirdanary to pick the team up. When one hitter strikes out with the winning runner on third, the next guy knocks him in. When a guy boots a ball in the field, the pitcher throws a double play ball. The highs may not be as high and the lows aren't as low. The losing streaks are short and the winning streaks seem to go on forever. They may not blow a lot of teams out, but they find ways to stay in every game and find ways to win.

A team with bad chemistry or a low chemistry rating: When the team is playing well everyone is preforming great, but when the team struggles, everyone struggles. When a fielder boots a ball, the pitcher gives up bomb to the next hitter. When a guy pops up with a runner on 3rd, the next guy strikes out looking. When things are going good, they kill their opponents, but when things are bad, they get blown out.

Overall, the Yankee's should have the best rated offense in the game. But their pitching staff, should reflect what it really is...very average. Overall, they should be one of the top teams in the AL, but I don't think they should be #1. I also don't think that the perenial WS champs should be the default #1 team. Look at the White Sox, they won it in 05, but didn't make the playoffs in 06. And they arguably got better in the offseason when they picked up Thome.

I think each player should be rated seperatley. When a team is combined, they should be averaged out to get the team rating.

Now what about an overall rating? What % is hitting (and what % of hitting is contact, power, etc). What % is pitching (and what % of pitching is starting pitching vs Relief pitching (and what % of that is ERA and what % is Strikeouts, etc))? What % is baserunning (and what % of that is speed vs. smarts%)? What % is Chemistry? What effect is fielding (and what % of that is based on fielding % vs. the teams actual range? ).

Teams win differently. Some teams win with pitching, others with hitting and others with speed and manufacturing. So how do you compare those teams with ratings? How do you compare the Tigers # 1 pitching staff to the Yankee's # 1 offense?

This is why I don't really like the overall rating. It doesn't really tell you much.

[MuDvAyNe]

Beltran finally deserves his 100 rating he got 2 years ago:D

[Trevytrev11]

I don't think anyone should be rated 100.
To me 100 means the best at everything.
He was 6th in HR's (17 behind the leader)
He as 8th in RBI's (43 behind the leader)
He hit .275

He is a great CF and can run (but doesn't as much as he used to, but his speed should still be near the top)

Unless you put a lot of stake in defense and steals, Ryan Howard and Pujols should be a 110 or 115.

I think a 100 rating at any stat means that it doesn't get any better.

If you have a 100 HR rating, you should be able to hit 60-65 HR's
If you have a 100 rating in hitting, you should be able to hit .390-.400
If you have a 100 speed or steal rating, you should never be able to get thrown out stealing.
If you have a 100 rating on defense, you should never make an error.

Beltran, in my eyes would be a mid to high 80's rated player. He would have great speed
and defense ratings, good, but not great power ratings and average contact ratings.

Pujols, in my eyes would be low to mid 90's (and that is because he does what he does every year). He only lacks in the speed category, which in todays game isn't as important as it used to be. Pujols would be the top player in the game. Which means no one would be rated higher than him overall. Sure, they could beat him in some categories, but overall, Pujols should take the cake. And he shouldn't get a 100 because then you are limiting his improvement. he hit 49 HR's last year and is just entering his prime. I think its safe to say that he could hit 55 HR's. He hit .331, I think he could hit .350 or better. He won a Gold Glove last year, so he is the elite defensive firstbaseman in the NL.

Howard might beat him in the power number, but doesn't come close in contact, defense, etc. Howard probably ends up in the high 80's...maybe 90.

[CARDS2501]

who do you think should be the highest rated player in the game? I would have to go with either Pujols or Santana or maybe even Manny or Arod (playoff performance not included). Probably Pujols over Santana because he plays everyday is a batting champion, gold glover, slugging champ, can steal the occasional base (16 for 18 in 2005), and is a former MVP and ROY (not in the same year)

[Art1bk]

I don't think anyone should be rated 100.
To me 100 means the best at everything.
He was 6th in HR's (17 behind the leader)
He as 8th in RBI's (43 behind the leader)
He hit .275

He is a great CF and can run (but doesn't as much as he used to, but his speed should still be near the top)

Unless you put a lot of stake in defense and steals, Ryan Howard and Pujols should be a 110 or 115.

I think a 100 rating at any stat means that it doesn't get any better.

If you have a 100 HR rating, you should be able to hit 60-65 HR's
If you have a 100 rating in hitting, you should be able to hit .390-.400
If you have a 100 speed or steal rating, you should never be able to get thrown out stealing.
If you have a 100 rating on defense, you should never make an error.

Beltran, in my eyes would be a mid to high 80's rated player. He would have great speed
and defense ratings, good, but not great power ratings and average contact ratings.

Pujols, in my eyes would be low to mid 90's (and that is because he does what he does every year). He only lacks in the speed category, which in todays game isn't as important as it used to be. Pujols would be the top player in the game. Which means no one would be rated higher than him overall. Sure, they could beat him in some categories, but overall, Pujols should take the cake. And he shouldn't get a 100 because then you are limiting his improvement. he hit 49 HR's last year and is just entering his prime. I think its safe to say that he could hit 55 HR's. He hit .331, I think he could hit .350 or better. He won a Gold Glove last year, so he is the elite defensive firstbaseman in the NL.

Howard might beat him in the power number, but doesn't come close in contact, defense, etc. Howard probably ends up in the high 80's...maybe 90.
Ur right on that one trev. No one at all should be 100 rating. Beltran is good but the most i would give him would be high 80's maybe 90. No one in the game should be 100 at all. If i see beltran 100 in the game that will be so disapointing to me.

[Art1bk]

who do you think should be the highest rated player in the game? I would have to go with either Pujols or Santana or maybe even Manny or Arod (playoff performance not included). Probably Pujols over Santana because he plays everyday is a batting champion, gold glover, slugging champ, can steal the occasional base (16 for 18 in 2005), and is a former MVP and ROY (not in the same year)
I would give pujols a 95 and santana a 93. The reason i wouldnt give pujols any higher is because the guy does not steel alot of bases and he's not a perfect player. I would definetly give him high clutch rating.. The guy is clutch. Big papi, Pujols and Jeter to me are the highest clutch hitters in the big leagues. They have #'s to prove it. U can also add manny if u want. Especialy in playoffs..:)

[CARDS2501]

another guy to add to the clutch discussion would be edgar renteria and beltran is pretty clutch too (his last ab in the NLCS not withstanding)

[Art1bk]

another guy to add to the clutch discussion would be edgar renteria and beltran is pretty clutch too (his last ab in the NLCS not withstanding)
Im glad u added not his last at bat:rotfl:

[Trevytrev11]

who do you think should be the highest rated player in the game? I would have to go with either Pujols or Santana or maybe even Manny or Arod (playoff performance not included). Probably Pujols over Santana because he plays everyday is a batting champion, gold glover, slugging champ, can steal the occasional base (16 for 18 in 2005), and is a former MVP and ROY (not in the same year)
For offensive players, I give most of the weight to hitting, with less to defense and speed.

Overall, I think Pujols is hands down the best offensive player in the game.

I would rate him in the low 90's because I think he can still get better. I can see him hitting 50 or 55 HR's and driving in 140 or 150 runs. His hitting would be the best in the game and his defense would be among the top 1st basemens. His speed would weigh him down a little and prevent him from being an OVERALL 95.

A-Rod would be in the high 80's. After last year, his power rating and contact rating would bring him down a little. But we all know what he is still capable. If he can get his head right, he's still a potential .300 - .315 and 45 -50 HR guy. His defense also brings him down and prevents him from getting to the 90's.

I think Santana is the pitching equivlent of Pujols. He's just hands down better all around than every other pitcher, even if his overall numbers were not quite as good last year than the previous 2 years (ERA, WHIP, /BAA were slightly up).
He's a guy that almost goes 7 or 8 every time out. He strikes a ton of guys out and walks about 1.5 per 9, which is amazing for his strikeouts. The difference between him and Pujols is that I don't think Sanatana can get much better. I think he's near his peak and will put together 3, 4 or 5 more years like last year. He'll be 28 at the start of this year.

Manny is also a high 80's maybe a 90. He strikes out about twice as much as Pujols, but seems to thrive when it counts. I think he's as good of overall hitter as A-Rod and about as reliable in the field. If there was a clutch rating, it would build a slight gap between himself and ARod. Arod would get an edge is speed as he can actually steal a base, but again, I put a high priority on hitting over speed. There are a lot of fast guys who can't get on base.

Jeter would also be in the high 80's. He's a great contact hitter and has some pop, but not enough to get into the 90's. He is solid defensively and is fast and smart on the bases.

Compare Jeter to Pujols. Pujols is a career .332 hitter and will be 27 when the season begins. He's just about to enter his prime and has a head start on Jeter. The power numbers are not even comparable. RBI's are a misleading stat. Any player on the Yankees has an opportunity to drive in 100 runs. Jeter is a typical leadoff hitter and has a lower OBP.

I wish I could find some RISP info, but couldn't.

[Trevytrev11]

another guy to add to the clutch discussion would be edgar renteria and beltran is pretty clutch too (his last ab in the NLCS not withstanding)

Clutch is pretty hard to define, let alone to weigh it's impact as a % of a players overall rating.

What if a guy hit .350 45 and 120, but was hitless in situations where his team had a chance to tie a game or take the lead? What if this guy was money when the score of the game was not close, but choked when ever the game was on the line.

What if a guy hit .285 30 and 100, but hit .450 in these situations. When the game was already decided, he stunk, but when the game was on the line, he was unbelievable.

What about luck? What if you crush a pitch in a close situation and the defense makes an unbelivable play or the ball gets lost in the sun or you just happen to get jammed and dink one over the 3rd basemans head.

Look at Luis Gonzales GWRBI in the 2001 WS and compare it to Joe Carters walk off bomb in the 1991 WS? If anything, you can say that Gonzales RBI was luck. After all the pitch pretty much broke his bat and he was lucky that the IF was in. There is no way that is what he was trying to do on that AB.

BUT, I think over the course of a season, the law of averages is going to get you as many bloop hits as robbedd outs.

With that in mind, I think that a players .avg with RISP is the best stat to define clutch. Some hits may be luck and sometimes you may crush one that gets robbed, but over a season, they probably balance each other out and the result is a statistic that tells you how good a player is in the "most important" situations of a game. Let's face it, the pressure with 2 outs and nobody on in the bottom of the 2nd is nothing compared to the pressure of hitting with 2 outs with the tying run on second in the 9th.

I don't think you can accurately define clutch. If you think about it, it is more of a mental statistic that anything else. Your basically saying that the pressure doesn't effect one player as much as another. But when you can try and define pressure situations, then you can try to define clutch.

[CARDS2501]

I wish I could find some RISP info, but couldn't.


Courtesy of MLB.com

stats with RISP

Pujols-126AB .397 avg 14 HR 88 RBI .535 OBP .802 SLG
Jeter-155AB .381 avg 6 HR 83 RBI .482 OBP .581 SLG
AROD-189AB .302 AVG 10 HR 85 RBI .431 OBP .508 SLG
MANRAM-124AB .323 AVG 10 HR 68 RBI .471 OBP .605 SLG

[Trevytrev11]

Courtesy of MLB.com

stats with RISP

Pujols-126AB .397 avg 14 HR 88 RBI .535 OBP .802 SLG
Jeter-155AB .381 avg 6 HR 83 RBI .482 OBP .581 SLG
AROD-189AB .302 AVG 10 HR 85 RBI .431 OBP .508 SLG
MANRAM-124AB .323 AVG 10 HR 68 RBI .471 OBP .605 SLG

I'm suprised A-Rod's is so high being that he gets ragged on for not being a clutch hitter. Of course when you compare him to Pujols and Jeter, he's not even in the same league.

So with that those numbers being true, Pujols and Jeter get about as big of boost in the clutch category as anyone. Manny hit .321 overall last year, so he pretty much stays put and A-Rd hit .290 so he pretty much stays put as well.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Here are my TOP MLB players rankings, and White Sox rankings...


Pujols - 95
Santana - 94
A-Rod- 91
Howard - 90
Wright - 91
Jeter - 89 (but will probably be a 95 because its Jeter)
Randy Johnson - 81
Brandon Webb - 89
Chris Carpenter - 88
Ortiz - 88
Manny Ramirez - 88
Dontrelle Willis - 86
Justin Morneau - 90
Jose Reyes - 90
Diasuke Matsuzaka - 83



White Sox:
1) Buehrle - 87
2) Garland - 85
3) Contreras - 82
4) Vazquez - 77
5) Floyd - 58, Haegar - 56, Danks - 54

Macdougal - 85
Thornton - 84
Jenks - 88

1) Pods - 74 , Sweeney - 71
2) Iguchi - 81
3) Thome - 86
4) Konerko - 88
5) Dye - 90
6) Crede - 87
7) AJ - 80
8) Uribe - 79
9) Anderson - 72, Sweeney - 71

[CARDS2501]

I'm suprised A-Rod's is so high being that he gets ragged on for not being a clutch hitter. Of course when you compare him to Pujols and Jeter, he's not even in the same league.


Its unbelievable what Pujols does in 63 fewer AB's w/RISP he has 3 more RBI than Arod who really takes a beating in NY unfairly in my opinion I mean the guy won an MVP for the Yankees in 2005 and the fans and media in New York make this guy sound like he is the next incarnation of Sid Bream or something. Its really a shame how this guy is treated.

[Trevytrev11]

Just out of curiousity, why do you have A-Rod higher than Manny?

I'm not criticizing at all, just wanted to know if there was something specific that made you do it. (Maybe A Rod just had an off year or what not).

Everything else, I think I'm I pretty much agree with the other offensive players.

But if Capenters a 88, how are Buehrle and Garland 87 and 85? I think those guys should be high 70's to low 80's.

I mean Carpenter is just so much more of an all around more dominant pitcher (fewer hits, HR's walks and more K's in more innings:

-------------------W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
1. C Carpenter STL 15 8 3.09 32 32 5 3 0 0 221.2 194 81 76 21 10 43 184
2. J Garland CWS 18 7 4.51 33 32 1 1 0 0 211.1 247 112 106 26 6 41 112
3. M Buehrle CWS 12 13 4.99 32 32 1 0 0 0 204.0 247 124 113 36 6 48 98

[JoeCoolMan24]

Just out of curiousity, why do you have A-Rod higher than Manny?

I'm not criticizing at all, just wanted to know if there was something specific that made you do it. (Maybe A Rod just had an off year or what not).

Everything else, I think I'm I pretty much agree with the other offensive players.

But if Capenters a 88, how are Buehrle and Garland 87 and 85? I think those guys should be high 70's to low 80's.

I mean Carpenter is just so much more of an all around more dominant pitcher (fewer hits, HR's walks and more K's in more innings:

-------------------W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HBP BB SO
1. C Carpenter STL 15 8 3.09 32 32 5 3 0 0 221.2 194 81 76 21 10 43 184
2. J Garland CWS 18 7 4.51 33 32 1 1 0 0 211.1 247 112 106 26 6 41 112
3. M Buehrle CWS 12 13 4.99 32 32 1 0 0 0 204.0 247 124 113 36 6 48 98

But your just going by last year. For a pitcher, i hardly rate them on 1 year. Buehrle has averaged over 16 wins a year before last year, and has always been the most reliable pitcher in baseball. Has had most innings over the last 4 years (dont quote me), and has always been very very good and consistant. He had 1 bad year, thats why A-Rod, and Willis still have high ratings. Garland is an 85 because he was MUCH more dominating than his numbers looked last year. He has won more games over a 2-year span than anyone, and has really improve greatly. The reason his numbers look bad is because, first off, he did terrible the first month of the season, and 2nd of all, he was mainly good all year, but when he had a bad game, he has a TERRIBLE game. I guess 84 is more realistic, but I dont expect everyone to agree with all my ratings either. Hell, when the ratings come out this year, everyone including myself will be calling for heads on a few rating. But thanks for your input.

[CARDS2501]

But your just going by last year. For a pitcher, i hardly rate them on 1 year. Buehrle has averaged over 16 wins a year before last year, and has always been the most reliable pitcher in baseball. Has had most innings over the last 4 years (dont quote me), and has always been very very good and consistant. He had 1 bad year, thats why A-Rod, and Willis still have high ratings. Garland is an 85 because he was MUCH more dominating than his numbers looked last year. He has won more games over a 2-year span than anyone, and has really improve greatly. The reason his numbers look bad is because, first off, he did terrible the first month of the season, and 2nd of all, he was mainly good all year, but when he had a bad game, he has a TERRIBLE game. I guess 84 is more realistic, but I dont expect everyone to agree with all my ratings either. Hell, when the ratings come out this year, everyone including myself will be calling for heads on a few rating. But thanks for your input.


Wins are the most overrated stat that a starting pitcher has. A bad bullpen or a bad offense can kill your win total. Look at Roger Clemens in 2005 the guy started 32 games pitched 211 innings had an ERA of 1.87 struck out 185 but only had 13 wins and 8 losses mostly because he got NO run support. ERA, Innings Pitched, and WHIP are a much better method of evaluating a pitcher

[Flaxseed Oil]

i'll give you my top 10 player ratings and pitcher ratings:

Position players:

Pujols 97
A-Rod 95
Howard 94
Ichiro 94
Ortiz 94
Soriano 94
Texiera 93
M. Ramirez 93
C. Lee 92
Hafner 92


Pitchers:

Rivera 98
Santana 97
K-Rod 97
Liriano 95
Willis 94
Wang 93
Webb 93
Schilling 92
Harden 92
Kazmier 91
Matsuzaka 90

[Trevytrev11]

But your just going by last year. For a pitcher, i hardly rate them on 1 year. Buehrle has averaged over 16 wins a year before last year, and has always been the most reliable pitcher in baseball. Has had most innings over the last 4 years (dont quote me), and has always been very very good and consistant. He had 1 bad year, thats why A-Rod, and Willis still have high ratings. Garland is an 85 because he was MUCH more dominating than his numbers looked last year. He has won more games over a 2-year span than anyone, and has really improve greatly. The reason his numbers look bad is because, first off, he did terrible the first month of the season, and 2nd of all, he was mainly good all year, but when he had a bad game, he has a TERRIBLE game. I guess 84 is more realistic, but I dont expect everyone to agree with all my ratings either. Hell, when the ratings come out this year, everyone including myself will be calling for heads on a few rating. But thanks for your input.

By all means, no one will ever agree on ratings across the board. Everything is up to interpratation.

I know Buhrlee's been a stud up until last year and Garland is going to be a solid guy and can be lights out at times. I just though Carpenter was noticably more dominant and consistant than those two guys when it came to other things besides wins (Avg. HR's ERA, K's/9).

But again, these are your numbers and I can't argue with that.

If I was rating those same guys, I'd probably put Carpenter in the 90 or 91 range.

Buhrle would probably be in the 80-84 range (excluding last year, he's not a dominant guy, but he's an inning eating, groundball throwing, quick pitching machine).

And Garland would probably be in the 78 - 80 range. I think right now he just lacks consistancy. He can give up 1 or 2 runs and then give upa 6 or 7 spot.

[Trevytrev11]

i'll give you my top 10 player ratings and pitcher ratings:

Position players:

Pujols 97
A-Rod 95
Howard 94
Ichiro 94
Ortiz 94
Soriano 94
Texiera 93
M. Ramirez 93
C. Lee 92
Hafner 92


Pitchers:

Rivera 98
Santana 97
K-Rod 97
Liriano 95
Willis 94
Wang 93
Webb 93
Schilling 92
Harden 92
Kazmier 91
Matsuzaka 90

I don't mind giving closers high rankings because they are probably the most dominant pitchers if only for an inning or two.

I think Rivera should be under K-Rod. Rivera still is the man, but if you look at what K-Rod did and where they both are in age, I think I would give the edge to K-Rod.

I'm also suprised you have Schilling and Kazmir up there, but not Oswalt, Carpenter or Clemens. Schilling is getting up there in age and his numbers are getting worse. He almost had a 4.00 ERA last year and he's striking out fewer batters and giving up more HR's than ever before.

Matsuzaka is the wild card, no one knows what will happen to him.
Harden's also a wild card. I think he's a Cy Young type guy, but we're yet to see what he can do for a full season. But I like his number, the biggest question would be his health.

Again, these are all opinions.

[JoeCoolMan24]

i'll give you my top 10 player ratings and pitcher ratings:

Position players:

Pujols 97
A-Rod 95
Howard 94
Ichiro 94
Ortiz 94
Soriano 94
Texiera 93
M. Ramirez 93
C. Lee 92
Hafner 92


Pitchers:

Rivera 98
Santana 97
K-Rod 97
Liriano 95
Willis 94
Wang 93
Webb 93
Schilling 92
Harden 92
Kazmier 91
Matsuzaka 90


I think you grossly overrated Harden, Kazmir, Matsuzaka and Carlos Lee. Everything else is pretty good.

[CARDS2501]

I might as well get in on this too

Albert Pujols-98
Manny Ramirez-95
Arod-95
Miguel Cabrerra-94
Alfonso Soriano-93
Carlos Beltran-92
Vladimir Guerrero-92
David Ortiz-91
Mark Texiera-90
Carl Crawford-90
Derek Jeter-90
Ryan Howard-90
Vernon Wells-90
Jose Reyes-89
Travis Hafner- 89
Lance Berkman-89
Carlos Delgado-89
Derek Lee-89
Carlos Lee -88
Andruw Jones-88
Ichiro-88
Grady Sizemore-88
Jermaine Dye-88
Scott Rolen-88
Joe Mauer-87
Miguel Tejada-87
Justin Morneau-87
Jim Thome-85
Hideki Matsui-85
Gary Sheffield-85
Todd Helton-85
Ken Griffey Jr-85
Eric Chavez-84
Magglio Ordonez-84
Adam Dunn-84
Chipper Jones-84
Jason Bay-84
Brian McCann-83
Brian Giles-83
Nomar Garciaparra-83
Rafael Furcal-83
Gary Matthews Jr-83
Michael Young-83
Robinson Cano-83


I got a little carried away there

[Trevytrev11]

What about The Big Hurt? I think Frank Thomas, if healthy is around the Jim Thome-ish level. Maybe an 83-85. If he can hit like he did for 2/3's of last year (once he washed away the rust), I think he can go .290-ish 40-45 and 110-120.

[CARDS2501]

Yeah he should probably be in the low 80's you hate to rate a DH too high because of lack of defensive skill and with Frank you probably can put him 85 but you have to have him at about a 40 Injury Rating

[Brewhaha]

Our friend Bill Hall has to be right up there in ratings. Second behind only Tejada as far as shortstops, although he will most likely be playing CF this year.

[CARDS2501]

as for pitchers

John Santana-97
Roger Clemens-96
Mariano Rivera-95
Joe Nathan-95
Chris Carpenter-95
Roy Halladay-95
Dontrelle Willis-94
Roy Oswalt-94
Bartolo Colon-93
Carlos Zambrano-93
Frankie Rodriguez-93
Billy Wagner-92
John Smoltz-90
Bobby Jenks-90
Brandon Webb-90
Huston Street-88
Pedro Martinez-88
Joel Zumaya-88
Justin Verlander-88
Rich Harden-88
Felix Hernandez-88
Scott Kazmir-88
Mark Mulder-87
Barry Zito-87
Jason Schmidt-87
Jared Weaver-87
Mark Buehrle-87
Ben Sheets-87
Kevin Millwood-86
Matt Cain-86
Jake Peavy-86
Randy JOhnson-86
Mike Mussina-85
Cliff Lee-85
Chris Capuano-85
Jeremy Bonderman-85
CC SAbathia-85
Jon Garland-85
Tim Hudson-85
Josh Beckett-85
Jason Jennings-84
Derek Lowe-84
AJ Burnett-84
Curt Schilling-84
Daisuke Matsuzaka-84
Rodrigo Lopez-83
Bronson Arroyo-83
Tom Glavine-83
Andy Pettitte-83
Mark Prior-83
Brad Penny-83
Gil Meche-80
Ted Lilly-80
Matt Morris-80

[DrewD007]

I'm going to do my (biased) Cardinal rankings...

Catchers:
Yadier Molina 74
Gary Bennet 65

Infielders:
Albert Pujols 99 (Or wheatever the highest can be)
Scott Rolen 88
David Eckstein 82
Adam Kennedy 77
Scott Spiezio 72
Aaron Miles 67

Outfielders
Jim Edmonds 85
Juan Encarnacion 78
Chris Duncan 75
So Taguchi 68
John Rodriguez 66

Starting Pitchers
Chris Carpenter 96
Mark Mulder 88
*Jeff Weaver 82*
Kip Wells 77
Adam Wainwright 75
Anthony Reyes 71

Relief Pitchers
Jason Isringhuasen 85
Braden Looper 78
Russ Springer 74
Josh Kinney 73
Tyler Johnson 73
Randy Flores 72
Ryan Franklin 69
Brad Thompson 68
Josh Hancock 67

Just kind of threw the bullpen together... *shrugs*

[EnigmaNemesis]

Yeah, hopefully they get it right and not give someone like Jonathan Papelbon a low to mid 50's for overall like they did last year.

What were these people thinking?

[JoeCoolMan24]

I'm going to do my (biased) Cardinal rankings...

Catchers:
Yadier Molina 74
Gary Bennet 65

Infielders:
Albert Pujols 99 (Or wheatever the highest can be)
Scott Rolen 88
David Eckstein 82
Adam Kennedy 77
Scott Spiezio 72
Aaron Miles 67

Outfielders
Jim Edmonds 85
Juan Encarnacion 78
Chris Duncan 75
So Taguchi 68
John Rodriguez 66

Starting Pitchers
Chris Carpenter 96
Mark Mulder 88
*Jeff Weaver 82*
Kip Wells 77
Adam Wainwright 75
Anthony Reyes 71

Relief Pitchers
Jason Isringhuasen 85
Braden Looper 78
Russ Springer 74
Josh Kinney 73
Tyler Johnson 73
Randy Flores 72
Ryan Franklin 69
Brad Thompson 68
Josh Hancock 67

Just kind of threw the bullpen together... *shrugs*

I disagree with Carp and Pujols. No one should ever be a 98, 99, 100 unless they win the MVP every year, and basically a triple crown. Being a 99 or 100 means that you are the greatest possible baseball player ever. No one can ever be better than you. And for that reason, i think Carpenter should be lower, but everything else looks good for what I know about that Cardinals.

[howiek2007]

i'll give you my top 10 player ratings and pitcher ratings:

Position players:

Pujols 97
A-Rod 95
Howard 94
Ichiro 94
Ortiz 94
Soriano 94
Texiera 93
M. Ramirez 93
C. Lee 92
Hafner 92


Pitchers:

Rivera 98
Santana 97
K-Rod 97
Liriano 95
Willis 94
Wang 93
Webb 93
Schilling 92
Harden 92
Kazmier 91
Matsuzaka 90

Vlad, Dye, and Mornoeu(sp?) are better overall hitters than practically all the guys on your list. Liriano hasn't made enough starts and Harden has never lived up to his hype. Matsuzaka isn't gonna be one of the top ten pitchers in mlb next year. You can bet on that.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Matsuzaka isn't gonna be one of the top ten pitchers in mlb next year. You can bet on that.

Considering the "top ten" last year had very few (1 or 2) below an era of 3 and most were hovering around 4, I would take that bet.

[BloodBrother650]

as for pitchers

John Santana-97
Roger Clemens-96
Mariano Rivera-95
Joe Nathan-95
Chris Carpenter-95
Roy Halladay-95
Dontrelle Willis-94
Roy Oswalt-94
Bartolo Colon-93
Carlos Zambrano-93
Frankie Rodriguez-93
Billy Wagner-92
John Smoltz-90
Bobby Jenks-90
Brandon Webb-90
Huston Street-88
Pedro Martinez-88
Joel Zumaya-88
Justin Verlander-88
Rich Harden-88
Felix Hernandez-88
Scott Kazmir-88
Mark Mulder-87
Barry Zito-87
Jason Schmidt-87
Jared Weaver-87
Mark Buehrle-87
Ben Sheets-87
Kevin Millwood-86
Matt Cain-86
Jake Peavy-86
Randy JOhnson-86
Mike Mussina-85
Cliff Lee-85
Chris Capuano-85
Jeremy Bonderman-85
CC SAbathia-85
Jon Garland-85
Tom Glavine-85
Tim Hudson-85
Josh Beckett-85
Jason Jennings-84
Derek Lowe-84
AJ Burnett-84
Curt Schilling-84
Daisuke Matsuzaka-84
Rodrigo Lopez-83
Bronson Arroyo-83
Andy Pettitte-83
Mark Prior-83
Brad Penny-83
Gil Meche-80
Ted Lilly-80
Matt Morris-80


man, John Lackey really doesn't get any love from anybody other than Angels fans. And if you are going to put setup men/relievers on that list, Scot Shields should be up there to. It seems every team always wants him whenever the Angels try to discuss trades with other teams

[CARDS2501]

man, John Lackey really doesn't get any love from anybody other than Angels fans. And if you are going to put setup men/relievers on that list, Scot Shields should be up there to. It seems every team always wants him whenever the Angels try to discuss trades with other teams


Lackey is an obvious omission that should have been in there somewhere in the low to mid 80's...I didn't list any middle relievers other than Zumaya and that is just because he is wicked

[howiek2007]

Lackey is an obvious omission that should have been in there somewhere in the low to mid 80's...I didn't list any middle relievers other than Zumaya and that is just because he is wicked

John Lackey has finished in the top 5 in the AL in era and K's two years in a row. Only other pitcher to do that is Santana. John will get (and deserve) a high 80's/low 90's rating.

[Trevytrev11]

A's:

Kendall-75 (Great contact, solid defense, decent speed, no power at all)
Kotsay-77 (Great defense/arm, decent contact, low power, decent speed)
Bradley-81 (Good Speed, Good defense, average power, avereage contact)
Chavez-84 (Great defense, slightly above average power, below avg. contact)
Piazza-80 (Great contact, above avg. power, poor defense, poor speed)
Swisher-79 (Average defense, above average power, average contact, average speed)
Johnson-71 (Average power, average contact, average defense, bad speed)
Crosby-70 (Good defense, decent speed, average power, low contact)
Ellis-75 (Good contact, below avg. power, great defense, avg. speed)

Bench:
Kielty-76 (average everywhere, with a little pop)
Melhuse-70 (below avereage, except pretty clutch)
Scuataro-72 (solid defense, great contact, low power, decent speed)
Perez-68 (slightly below average pretty much everwhere)


Starters:
Harden-88 (Great stuff, good power, stamina, consistancy and durability are the question)
Haren-85 (Keeps getting better, good stuff, great control, needs to be more consistent)
Loaiza-79 (lights out when he's on, gets hammered when he's not. velocity is key)
Blanton-77 (not living up to potential...very average)
Kennedy-76 (Great out of the pen last year, 1st chance to start since leaving Col)

Relievers:
Duchscherer-86 (one of the best middle/long guys last year, jack of all trades, gets guys out)
Embree-80 (lefty specialist, 90 against lefty's, 70 against righties)
Witasick-78 (good stuff, needs to stay healthy)
Saarloos-78 (another jack of all trades, was solid out of pen last year)
Halsey-74 (spot start, long reliever, average pitcher)
Calero-85 (slider is damn near unhittable when on, gets hammered when it's not)
Street-87 (either lights out or gets hammered, lot of potential)


Offense: 78 (40%) (Very average with potential)
Bench: 72 (10%) (Very average, with some clutch pinch hitters in Scutaro, Mellhuse and Kielty)
Starting Pitching: 81 (30%) (Young and talented-Harden will have to lead)
Bullpen: 82 (10%) (Above average pen, a lot of guys can fill muliple rolls)
Defense: 92 (10%)3rd best in all of baseball. (Ellis and Kotsay were robbed, Bradley is excellent, Crosby is good, Kendall is back to old self, Chavez is one of the best)

Overall: 80 (With a chemistry rating, they are probably an 85-87)

[foofighter2455]

you gotta put guys like omar vizquel up on one of those lists, he's the best defensive ss of all time and hits around 300. and anyone who thinks harden isnt an amazing talent needs to watch videos of him when he's healthy. key word "when".

[Trevytrev11]

you gotta put guys like omar vizquel up on one of those lists, he's the best defensive ss of all time and hits around 300. and anyone who thinks harden isnt an amazing talent needs to watch videos of him when he's healthy. key word "when".

Omar's tough. I guess it depends on how much of your rating is based on defense. And how much of your offense rating is based on contact. I just checked his stats and he's a career .276 hitter and only hit .300 once in his career. His defense is till brilliant, but he doesn't run quite like he used to. I'd put Omar in the low low 80's. He's also getting up there in age.

I agree with you on Harden. When he is healthy, he's got Cy Young stuff, but he hasn't been healthy long enought to show that he can maintain that. If he can pitch to his potential for a full season, I think his rating would be in the low to mid 90's. I thought the 88 I gave him was fair because of that.

[CARDS2501]

omar vizquel up on one of those lists, he's the best defensive ss of all time.

I disagree


http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/blank.gifhttp://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/blank.gifhttp://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/blank.gifhttp://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAEJ037~Ozzie-Smith-Turning-double-play-Photofile-Posters.jpg

[Trevytrev11]

Ozzie:
.978 Fielding %
5.03 Range Factor
281 errors in 12,905 Total Chances
13 Gold Gloves

Omar:
.984 Fielding %
4.39 Range Factor
172 errors in 10831 Total Chances
11 Gold Gloves

Cal:
.979 Fielding %
5.62 Range factor
225 errors in 10853 Total Chances
2 Gold Gloves
**Range factor is how many balls you get to per 9 innings.
***All Numbers are for the SS position only (IE Ripkens doesn't count 3rd base)

[sayheykidetn]

all of yall are retarded except cards2501. name the 2nd winningest pitcher since 2001. name the pitcher with the lowest era since 2001. name the pitcher who lead the NL in era last year. ROY OSWALT. none of yall had him in your top pitchers list. hes won 20 games twice, and only reason he didnt win more last year was cuz he played for the houston astros with horrible offence. you guys know nothing about baseball

[Trevytrev11]

all of yall are retarded except cards2501. name the 2nd winningest pitcher since 2001. name the pitcher with the lowest era since 2001. name the pitcher who lead the NL in era last year. ROY OSWALT. none of yall had him in your top pitchers list. hes won 20 games twice, and only reason he didnt win more last year was cuz he played for the houston astros with horrible offence. you guys know nothing about baseball

Actually, by definition you are retarded, well tardy (slow/late) as I already pointed Oswalt out on the third page of this thread. But, umm great post..way to make an entrance. Nothing like coming on here and calling people retards and telling people that they know nothing about baseball in your very first post.

[CARDS2501]

most of these guys only had 10 or so people on their list...its pretty easy to forget some guys, hell I had over 50 but still forgot John Lackey, David Wells, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Anibal Sanchez, Mike Hampton, Russ Ortiz, Ervin Santana, Rafael Soriano, Zack Grienke, Zack Duke, Adam Wainwright, Freddy Garcia, Jamie Moyer, Randy Wolf ect. and everyone of those guys should probably be rated somewhere in the high 70's to mid 80's

[ChiefsFan4Life]

i might as well jump into this i'll do 2 teams

Boston Red Sox
C Jason Varitek - 86
C Doug Mirabello -72

1B Kevin Youkills - 82
1B Eric Hinske -77

2B Alex Cora -74
2B Dustin Pedroia - 65

3B Mike Lowell - 87

SS Juilo Lugo -83

LF Manny Ramirez - 97
LF Willy Mo Pena - 75

CF Coco Crisp - 79
CF David Murphy - 63

RF J.D. Drew -89

DH David Ortiz - 97

SP Curt Schilling - 93
SP Josh Beckett - 89
SP Daisuke Matsuzaka - 85
SP Joanthan Papelbon - 82
SP Tim Wakefield -78
SP John Lester - 67

RP Javier Lopez - 79
RP Julien Tavarez - 77
RP J.C. Romero - 75
RP Manny Delcarmen -68


Setup Man
RP Mike Timlin - 82
RP Brandon Donnelly - 85

Closers
Joel Pineiro -79
Craig Hensen - 72

Kansas City Roylas
C John Buck -71
C Jason LaRue - 74

1B Ryan Shealy - 72
1B Ross Gload - -73


2B Mark Grudzeilanek -79
2B Estanban German - 63

3B Mark Teahen -78
3B Alex Gordon - 76

SS Angle Berroa - 71
SS Andres Blanco -62
SS Anabail Sanchez -53

LF Emil Brown - 71
LF Shane Costa -61

CF David DeJesus -79
CF Joey Gathright -77

RF Reggie Sanders - 85
RF Mitch Maier- 67

DH Mike Sweeney -87

SP Gil Mench - 83
SP Odalas Prez -81
SP Zack Greinkie -78
SP Brian Bannister -72
SP Scott Elarton -70

RP Joe Nelson -71
RP David Riskie -78
RP Ken Ray -77
RP Jimmy Gobble -74

Setop Man
Todd Wellemyer -73

Closer
Octavio Dotel - 79

here is my list i know it may not be perfect but atleast i tried thanks

[SmokinAces]

Do you think Gary Matthew's Jr. Will be overrated?

I do.

[majorleestoned]

im an angels fan and brendan donnelly is not an 85 maybe when he was an all star in 2003 ever since that pine tar incident he had been terrible

[CARDS2501]

Do you think Gary Matthew's Jr. Will be overrated?

I do.


Might as well be he is certainly overpaid!

[SmokinAces]

Might as well be he is certainly overpaid!

Gil Meche is overpaid.

[nyJetsMets]

All Star Position Players Heres how I see it..

NL
C
Paul Lo Duca-86
Brian McCann-85
1B
Albert Pujols-100
Ryan Howard-98
Lance Berkman-90
2B
Chase Utley-88
Dan Uggla-85
3B
David Wright-94
Miguel Cabrera-92
Freddy Sanchez-85
Scott Rolen-86
SS
Jose Reyes-92
Edgar Renteria-85
David Eckstein-91 (world series MVP)
OF
Carlos Beltran-96
Alfonso Soriano-97
Jason Bay-89
Andruw Jones-94
Matt Holiday-88
Carlos Lee-90

Final Man
Nomar Garciaparra-97

AL
C
Ivan Rodriguez-88
Joe Mauer-93
1B
David Ortiz-98
Jim Thome-92
Paul Konerko-89
2B
Mark Loretta-86
Robinson Cano-86
Jose Lopez-84
3B
Alex Rodriguez-93
Troy Glaus-88
SS
Derek Jeter-95
Miguel Tejada-93
Micheal Young-87
OF
Vladimir Guererro-98
Ichiro Suziki-100
Vernon Wells-90
Jermaine Dye-95
Gary Matthews JR.-88
Magglio Ordonez-93
Manny Ramirez-97
Alex Rios-86
Grady Sizemore-84

Final Man
C
A.J Pierzynski-85

Some notable pitchers
Johan Santana-100
Randy Johnson-88
Tom Glavine-90

[majorleestoned]

what about bullpen and starters

[everyday endy]

Reyes should be a little higher so he is at least he is equal if not a point higher than mr wright

[nyJetsMets]

im a die-hard mets fan myself but Reyes i believe will start out at around 92 but will progress to like a 95

[Rockies24]

I might as well get in on this too

Albert Pujols-98
Manny Ramirez-95
Arod-95
Miguel Cabrerra-94
Alfonso Soriano-93
Carlos Beltran-92
Vladimir Guerrero-92
David Ortiz-91
Mark Texiera-90
Carl Crawford-90
Derek Jeter-90
Ryan Howard-90
Vernon Wells-90
Jose Reyes-89
Travis Hafner- 89
Lance Berkman-89
Carlos Delgado-89
Derek Lee-89
Carlos Lee -88
Andruw Jones-88
Ichiro-88
Grady Sizemore-88
Jermaine Dye-88
Scott Rolen-88
Joe Mauer-87
Miguel Tejada-87
Justin Morneau-87
Jim Thome-85
Hideki Matsui-85
Gary Sheffield-85
Todd Helton-85
Ken Griffey Jr-85
Eric Chavez-84
Magglio Ordonez-84
Adam Dunn-84
Chipper Jones-84
Jason Bay-84
Brian McCann-83
Brian Giles-83
Nomar Garciaparra-83
Rafael Furcal-83
Gary Matthews Jr-83
Michael Young-83
Robinson Cano-83


I got a little carried away there

Everybody forgets the rockies

Good list, with one exception you forgot Matt Holliday and Garret Atkins.

Holliday's stats: AVG-3.26, HR-34, RBI-114 and he had 10 stolen bases
He should be at least rated 88 if not 90
Atkins stats: AVG-3.29, HR-29, RBI-120
He should be rated between 85-88

But then again they play for the rockies

[everyday endy]

Carl Crawford is a José Reyes wanabee, there is no way that crawford is rated higher than José is. And i hate to be a homer, but where is david wright, and carlos delgado on that big list.
And i agree with the above poster's rating of Holliday. He is just a beast.

[Rockies24]

Carl Crawford is a José Reyes wanabee, there is no way that crawford is rated higher than José is. And i hate to be a homer, but where is david wright, and carlos delgado on that big list.
And i agree with the above poster's rating of Holliday. He is just a beast.

Thanks, players on the rockies never get the respect they deserve.
In addition I think Atkins was snubbed of the All Star game last year, I mean just compare his stats to David Wright's, who is overrated becasue he plays in New York.

Atkins hit .28 higher then Wright while also hitting more homeruns and RBI's.
So in theory Atkins should be rated higher then Wright

[CARDS2501]

Carl Crawford is a José Reyes wanabee, there is no way that crawford is rated higher than José is. And i hate to be a homer, but where is david wright, and carlos delgado on that big list.
And i agree with the above poster's rating of Holliday. He is just a beast.


First of all I did that off of the top of my head and I forgot a few players like Wright and Holliday among others. Secondly Carlos Delgado is on the list at 89 right between Lance Berkman and Derick Lee. Thirdly how can Carl Crawford be a Jose Reyes wannabe? The play different positions in different leagues and they have VERY similar stats and if you take into account that Carl Crawford plays for the worst team in the toughest division in the better league than you could reasonably draw the conclusion that Crawford has more value offensively than Reyes. However Reyes does play a more important defensive position than Crawford.

Lifetime Batting Statistics

Carl Crawford Jose Reyes
games 673 436
at bats 2759 1837
average .292 .285
rbi 297 185
hits 806 524
runs 397 301
doubles 108 82
triples 65 40
homeruns 51 33
stolen bases 227 156
caught steal. 47 37
walks 134 98
strikeouts 393 226
on base % .326 .321
slugging % .434 .427

actually it seems that crawford is a better base stealer if you compute the percentages he has more at bats and still has a higher batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage. I would say Crawford is the better player. By the way Crawford has a career .993 fielding percentage while Reyes is a career .973 fielder which is a huge difference.

[JoeCoolMan24]

First of all I did that off of the top of my head and I forgot a few players like Wright and Holliday among others. Secondly Carlos Delgado is on the list at 89 right between Lance Berkman and Derick Lee. Thirdly how can Carl Crawford be a Jose Reyes wannabe? The play different positions in different leagues and they have VERY similar stats and if you take into account that Carl Crawford plays for the worst team in the toughest division in the better league than you could reasonably draw the conclusion that Crawford has more value offensively than Reyes. However Reyes does play a more important defensive position than Crawford.

Lifetime Batting Statistics

Carl Crawford Jose Reyes
games 673 436
at bats 2759 1837
average .292 .285
rbi 297 185
hits 806 524
runs 397 301
doubles 108 82
triples 65 40
homeruns 51 33
stolen bases 227 156
caught steal. 47 37
walks 134 98
strikeouts 393 226
on base % .326 .321
slugging % .434 .427

actually it seems that crawford is a better base stealer if you compute the percentages he has more at bats and still has a higher batting average, on base percentage and slugging percentage. I would say Crawford is the better player. By the way Crawford has a career .993 fielding percentage while Reyes is a career .973 fielder which is a huge difference.


D-Rays are in the AL East, not the AL Central, which is the toughest division in Baseball.

[CARDS2501]

D-Rays are in the AL East, not the AL Central, which is the toughest division in Baseball.

You might be right about that LAST YEAR. But over then course of both players careers the AL East has been the toughest division in baseball unless you play for Yankees or Red Sox

[nyJetsMets]

You cant compare Reyes and Crawford career wise because Crawford has played 237 more games than Reyes. You can't compare them defensively because they play different positions. But it comes down to the offense. Who is the better offensive player??I gotta say its Reyes. Im not saying this because im a Mets fan just look at the stats from last season.Reyes has more runs 122 to 89, RBI's 81 to 77, Stolen Bases 64 to 58, There close in homeruns-Reyes with 19 Carl with 18 and close in avg-Carl-.305 Reyes-.300,and in slugging-Reyes-.487 Carl-.482.

If you look at it Reyes definiatly stands out more

[CARDS2501]

That is flawed logic. First you have to look at the teams in which they play for. Reyes has Beltran, Wright, Floyd, Green and Delgado hitting behind him to protect him and drive him in more often. Crawford has Travis Lee hitting behind him. Not even close. I think that your Mets background kind of skews your view on this slightly. I am not a fan of either team and I am being objective about it I feel that Carl Crawford is the better player. Further proof of this would be to project Reyes stats out over the same period of time as Crawford and you will see Carl is still the better player. It is still possible to compare defensive stats even though they play different positions. Crawford is a premier defensive outfielder committing only 11 errors in 1571 total career chances, meanwhile Reyes is a average at best shortstop committing 50 errors in only 1838 total career chances. While Reyes had a career year last year Crawford has been consistant throughout his entire career.

[Joker1010]

First off..im a Yankee fan/If you ask me ill have to admit Jose Reyes is the better base stealer and ill say that both Carl and Jose are about the same as far as batting goes.But defensivly its Crawford.Crawford has nobody behind him in the order either.
But in the end both are very amazing but if i had to choose i hate to say it cuz i hate the mets lol but ill have to take Reyes over Crawford.

Reyes will be the games second best shortstop (behind no other than Jeter of Course)

[Letemburn]

Seems no one is mentioning Aramis Ramirez and many are leaving out DLee just cause he got injured.

[RTT]

I expect Dice-K to be rated 9999. Yep, he's going to be unstoppable.


I also DEMAND that Vladimir Guerrero fall down while rounding the bases sometimes. I NEED a realistic game.



RTT Fact: RTT is an Angels fan.

[CARDS2501]

Reyes will be the games second best shortstop (behind no other than Jeter of Course)

You made a good argument right up to this point. How can Jeter be the best shortstop in the league when he isn't even the best shortstop on his own team? Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young and Jimmy Rollins in my opinion are all either better than or just as good as Derek Jeter and every single one of them is better than Jose Reyes you might even throw Omar Vizquel in there are being better than Reyes and in two years Hanley Ramirez and Stephen Drew will both be more highly regarded than Jose Reyes. He is a nice player but he is certainly overhyped by playing in New York.

[baandje]

You made a good argument right up to this point. How can Jeter be the best shortstop in the league when he isn't even the best shortstop on his own team?
You talking offensive or defensive player ratings? Because here's the thing: Kush rates players based on their offensive stats. Or, their offensive stats count for probably 85% of their rating. 2K's game has never had defensive player ratings that mean anything. A 65-rated SS will play as well as a 95 rated SS defensively. Heck, in 2K5, the CPU always stuck Frank Thomas at SS, and he played as well as anyone else. The game programming only looks at a player's offensive stats. It's one big gripe I have with 2K baseball.

[dbacksfan01]

Last year on 02/15 they did the top 25 starters, on 02/17 they did the top 25 closers and on the 02/22 they did the top 25 hitters.
trev you are always ontop of things good job

[dbacksfan01]

You made a good argument right up to this point. How can Jeter be the best shortstop in the league when he isn't even the best shortstop on his own team? Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Michael Young and Jimmy Rollins in my opinion are all either better than or just as good as Derek Jeter and every single one of them is better than Jose Reyes you might even throw Omar Vizquel in there are being better than Reyes and in two years Hanley Ramirez and Stephen Drew will both be more highly regarded than Jose Reyes. He is a nice player but he is certainly overhyped by playing in New York.I agree oh and thanks for giving Stephen Drew props but I dont think rollins is as good as jeter but I do think Michael young is the best shortstop in the leauge.

[everyday endy]

I should have posted this with my first post about crawford being a reyes wanabee. This is Crawford as quoted in the St. Peterburg Times last september...

“Jose Reyes is like everything to people right now, and I don't see anything different that he's doing and I'm doing. But nobody knows what I'm doing and he's like a big megastar, the best player ever, the most exciting player and all that stuff. And I'm like, 'Okay, what's the difference?'”

[NGOChocolate]

Carl Crawford --> Jose Reyes

[Joker1010]

Yes i still believe Reyes will be the second best shortstop. Offensively he is lighting and puts up good numbers. Defensively he is not that amazing but in the top 10. But Jeter will be the be the best shortstop because he is the cover man and he's Derek Jeter.
In The End Jeter-95 Reyes-92

[CARDS2501]

You talking offensive or defensive player ratings?

with the reyes /crawford debate I think that we are talking real world all around player.

[CARDS2501]

I should have posted this with my first post about crawford being a reyes wanabee. This is Crawford as quoted in the St. Peterburg Times last september...

“Jose Reyes is like everything to people right now, and I don't see anything different that he's doing and I'm doing. But nobody knows what I'm doing and he's like a big megastar, the best player ever, the most exciting player and all that stuff. And I'm like, 'Okay, what's the difference?'”


crawford is right! If Carl Crawford was a Yankee he would be thought of as a better player simply because of media coverage. If Jose Reyes is a Kansas City Royal no one would be talking about him. The fact that every has noticed Carl Crawford and he plays for the Devil Rays says a lot about just how good he really is.

[sayheykidetn]

randy johnson 88? tom glavine a 90? ichiro a 100? what r u thinking nyjetsmets?

[nyJetsMets]

I dont think Ichiro deserves to be a 100 but i just see 2k putting him there,they made him close to perfect last year and if not 100 then 95 or up.

Randy Johnson 88 because he had his ups and downs as a Yankee but he is getting old and now is back in Arizona.

As for Tom Glavine 90 because he was the Mets Ace in 2006 and i think he'll be over hyped just a little bit. If not 90 then 87 or higher.

I just listed what i think the game will put them as some don't deserve it, some do.

I'll post it again..

[nyJetsMets]

All Star Position Players Heres how I see it..

NL
C
Paul Lo Duca-86
Brian McCann-85
1B
Albert Pujols-100
Ryan Howard-98
Lance Berkman-90
2B
Chase Utley-88
Dan Uggla-85
3B
David Wright-94
Miguel Cabrera-92
Freddy Sanchez-85
Scott Rolen-86
SS
Jose Reyes-92
Edgar Renteria-85
David Eckstein-91 (world series MVP)
OF
Carlos Beltran-96
Alfonso Soriano-97
Jason Bay-89
Andruw Jones-94
Matt Holiday-88
Carlos Lee-90

Final Man
Nomar Garciaparra-97

AL
C
Ivan Rodriguez-88
Joe Mauer-93
1B
David Ortiz-98
Jim Thome-92
Paul Konerko-89
2B
Mark Loretta-86
Robinson Cano-86
Jose Lopez-84
3B
Alex Rodriguez-93
Troy Glaus-88
SS
Derek Jeter-95
Miguel Tejada-93
Micheal Young-87
OF
Vladimir Guererro-98
Ichiro Suziki-100
Vernon Wells-90
Jermaine Dye-95
Gary Matthews JR.-88
Magglio Ordonez-93
Manny Ramirez-97
Alex Rios-86
Grady Sizemore-84

Final Man
C
A.J Pierzynski-85

Some notable pitchers
Johan Santana-100
Randy Johnson-88
Tom Glavine-90

[NGOChocolate]

I think your overrating Mark Loretta.

Grady Sizemore --> Gary Matthews, Alex Rios

[Rockies24]

All Star Position Players Heres how I see it..

NL
C
Paul Lo Duca-86
Brian McCann-85
1B
Albert Pujols-100
Ryan Howard-98
Lance Berkman-90
2B
Chase Utley-88
Dan Uggla-85
3B
David Wright-94
Miguel Cabrera-92
Freddy Sanchez-85
Scott Rolen-86
SS
Jose Reyes-92
Edgar Renteria-85
David Eckstein-91 (world series MVP)
OF
Carlos Beltran-96
Alfonso Soriano-97
Jason Bay-89
Andruw Jones-94
Matt Holiday-88
Carlos Lee-90

Final Man
Nomar Garciaparra-97

AL
C
Ivan Rodriguez-88
Joe Mauer-93
1B
David Ortiz-98
Jim Thome-92
Paul Konerko-89
2B
Mark Loretta-86
Robinson Cano-86
Jose Lopez-84
3B
Alex Rodriguez-93
Troy Glaus-88
SS
Derek Jeter-95
Miguel Tejada-93
Micheal Young-87
OF
Vladimir Guererro-98
Ichiro Suziki-100
Vernon Wells-90
Jermaine Dye-95
Gary Matthews JR.-88
Magglio Ordonez-93
Manny Ramirez-97
Alex Rios-86
Grady Sizemore-84

Final Man
C
A.J Pierzynski-85

Some notable pitchers
Johan Santana-100
Randy Johnson-88
Tom Glavine-90

I dont think David Wright will be a 94.
Like I mentioned above he is a little overarted, not to say he isn't a good player.
Garret Atkins is a better 3rd basemen.
I think Wright will be rated more like a 89 or 90 if you compare his stats to that of some the other players listed

[majorleestoned]

magglio is way to high

[sayheykidetn]

here are a few of the astros player ratings. how they should really be rated

brad ausmus-34
lance berkman 100
adam everett-100 defence 15 offence. overall rating 17
carlos lee 85
roy oswalt, the highest player ever, 1000000

[Michiguy]

This is what i think the Detroit Tigers should be rated. Player-by-player

C - Pudge - 84
1B - Sean Casey - 78
2B - Placido Polanco - 85
3B - Brandon Inge - 83
SS - Carlos Guillen - 86
RF - Magglio Ordonez - 86
CF - Curtis Granderon - 79
LF - Craig Monroe - 84
DH - Gary Sheffield - 90

Bench:
OF - Marcus Thames - 80
2B/SS - Omar Infante - 77
C - Vance Wilson - 72
OF - Brent Clevlen - 74

Starting Rotation:
1 - Kenny Rogers - 85
2 - Jeremy Bonderman - 87
3 - Justin Verlander - 86
4 - Nate Robertson - 81
5 - Mike Maroth - 78

Relievers:
Long - Jason Grilli - 75
Long - Wilfredo Ledezma - 77
Middle - Jose Mesa - 81
Middle - Zach Minor - 80
Set-Up - Fernando Rodney - 85
Set-Up - Joel Zumaya - 90
Closer - Todd Jones - 82

Other Notables:
1B - Chris Shelton - 77
2B/SS - Ramon Santiago - 70
RP - Ramon Colon - 75
SP - Andrew Miller - 70
SP - Jordan Tata - 71

[seanfflp1125]

Ryan Howard should be better than 80, like he was in 2k6. I hope that 2k will update their rosters accurately throughout the season and have ratings change based on performance.

[everyday endy]

Heres how i see the mets stacking up position by position

Catchers
LoDuca - 84
Castro - 68

Infield
Delgado - 89
Valentin - 79
Reyes - 93 (speed 99)
Wright - 91 or 92

Outfield
Alou - 80
Beltran - 95
Green - 77

Bench
Chavez - 72
Franco - 68
Newhan - 69
Easley - 62

Starters
Pedro - 87 (But he doesn't throw 96mph anymore 2k!)
Glavine - 86
El Duque - 83
Maine - 82
Perez - 80

Bullpen
Burgos - 73
Sosa - 76
Heilman - 86
Duaner - 85
Showenweis - 80
Dave Williams - 79 (about the speed of his fastball)
Feliciano - 83
Wagner - 89

This is rough and basically just what came to me off the top of my head. Ill prob look back on this later and make a few corrections. How does it seem to all of you other mets fans here on these boards?

[NGOChocolate]

What has John Maine done to deserve a 84 rating?

Oliver Perez 81?

[nyJetsMets]

The only things about that Mets list that i dont agree with are..

Glavine should be little higher 87-90..he was the mets ace last year
Pedro might be in the low 90's because he'll get overhyped.
You forgot about El Duque-maybe 78-81
Delgado little higher like a 91
Maine should be a little lower-80

The Mets are lookin pretty good

[everyday endy]

Yea i think i overrated maine, but those #s are what i think they deserve and not what i think 2k is gonna give them. In that case i think that Pedro and glavine are going to be slightly overrated.

[CARDS2501]

Just because Glavine was the best pitcher on the team last year he is still not a true #1 starter and he never has been. He deserves to be in the mid 80's at best. He is 41 years old he did not throw 200 innings last year his ERA was 3.82 which is ok not great though. He doesn't strike out a lot of guys (only 131). Basically if you want to make Glavine a 90 then you need to make Bronson Arroyo a 91 which is ridiculous.

Arroyo 14-11, 3.29 era, 35 GS , 3 CG, 1 SHO, 240.2 IP, 88 ER, 64 BB, 184 K
Glavine 15-7, 3.82 ERA, 32 GS, 0 CG, 0 SHO, 198.0 IP, 84 ER, 62 BB, 131 K

The only thing Glavine was better than Arroyo at was won loss record and that is only because the Mets were a great deal better than the Reds.

I think that we can all agree that Bronson Arroyo will never deserve to be a pitcher with a 90+ rating and I think that looking at the stats we should all agree that Arroyo should be higher rated than Glavine. Anxiously awaiting the response from Mets fans on this one.

[everyday endy]

I think that we can all agree that Bronson Arroyo will never deserve to be a pitcher with a 90+ rating and I think that looking at the stats we should all agree that Arroyo should be higher rated than Glavine. Anxiously awaiting the response from Mets fans on this one.

Realisticly, if you had to play a big game and you could have either Arroyo or Glavine start the game for you, just tell me who you'd pick. Players aren't just stats, so if you want to make the argument that Arroyo deserves a better rating in A VIDEO GAME because he era is lower than glavine's, youre wrong, but fine. What you can't do however is say that Arroyo is a better pitcher right now than Tom Glavine is.

I have never really liked Glavine because to me he has always been a brave and had a huge soft spot in his heart for atlanta, but he is one of us now. So im not going to get so worked up defending him like your last sentence suggests i will, but i believe as a bias baseball fan that Glavine is the better pitcher.

[sayheykidetn]

i hate tom glavine but if i had to choose him or arroyo to throw 1 game, id pick tom glavine every day of the week. he can still get ppl out by throwing in 1 location..... away. change ups away and fastballs away and when ur looking away, boom, fastball in and ur done.

[DerrekLeeForPresident]

[QUOTE=Trevytrev11]I don't think anyone should be rated 100.
He(Pujols) won a Gold Glove last year, so he is the elite defensive firstbaseman in the NL.
QUOTE]

Not to start anything here, but I'm pretty sure Derrek Lee is the elite defensive firstbasemen in the NL, it just so happens that he only played in about 20 games when he was completely healthy last year, and his wrist was in a cast for 2 months.

[CARDS2501]

I'm not saying that I would want Arroyo in a big game over Glavine either I am however saying that Glavine and Arroyo should have similar ratings in this video game. Arroyo had a better year last year than Glavine and Glavine is at the point in his career that he is 41 years old and every year he pitches fewer innings and his era goes up and his wins should start going down. He is no longer an elite pitcher and he doesn't deserve to be rated like one anymore. If you think that I am saying this only because Arroyo's ERA was lower you are wrong there too. Bronson Arroyo was better in EVERY way last year except W/L record and that is not his fault either wins and losses are more a reflection of the team as a whole than they are of the individual pitcher. Glavine is on the decline in real life and his rating in the game should be as well.

[everyday endy]

^^ I agree with the cardinals fan.

But i just am looking at this assuming that these ratings should be true to what their "rating" in real life would be and im not just trying to guess what the 2k guys will rate them.

[CARDS2501]

[quote=Trevytrev11]I don't think anyone should be rated 100.
He(Pujols) won a Gold Glove last year, so he is the elite defensive firstbaseman in the NL.
QUOTE]

Not to start anything here, but I'm pretty sure Derrek Lee is the elite defensive firstbasemen in the NL, it just so happens that he only played in about 20 games when he was completely healthy last year, and his wrist was in a cast for 2 months.


Derrek Lee has been a first baseman for nine full seasons in the Major Leagues and he has only won 2 Gold Gloves. Albert Pujols has been a first baseman for 3 years and has won 1 Gold Glove. Lee has a career fielding percentage of .994 Pujols career fielding percentage at first base is .993. Not too bad for a guy who NEVER played first base until he became a major leaguer. I feel that I have made a pretty good case so far that Pujols is just as good as Lee at firstbase. now I am going to prove he is better. Derrek Lee has a career range factor of 8.59 while the league range factor over his career was 7.99 so he is not that much better than league average. Albert Pujols has a career range factor of 9.62 at first base while the league average during his career has been 8.14. Pujols is quite a bit higher than the league average during his first base career. If that isn't enough to convince you how about this stat. Last year in 47 games at first base Derrek Lee made 5 errors while Albert Pujols made only 6 errors in 143 games at first base. So only 1 more error in almost 100 more games I would say that definetly makes Albert the premier defensive firstbaseman in the league.

[everyday endy]

How about a little love for my boi Doug Mientkiewicz's glove!!

jk, i just love spelling that guys name though. Too bad he's a yankee now.

[CARDS2501]

How about a little love for my boi Doug Mientkiewicz's glove!!

:lol: Well lets not get crazy here. Sometimes you just need to slap a little reality into a Cubs fan. Next thing you know he will be telling us that Aramis Ramirez is the best thirdbaseman in the league and that he is worth the huge extension he signed because he hustles on every groundball HAHAHAHA!!!! Or he might try to tell us that Mark Prior shoud be rated near the top of the pitchers because of his durability. Cub fans are notoriously delusional about how good their players are believe me I know I am engaged to one, fortunatly being around me and watching how much fun it has been to win the past 3 years she is starting to convert to being a Cardinal fan. I've even seen her wear Cardinals apparel.

[everyday endy]

You just quoted me but it didnt seem like you responed to waht i was saying (which was a joke). you dont think im a cubs fan, right?

[Letemburn]

Funny no one has yet to mention Aramis Ramirez at all. ARam wasnt even on the long list of top players earlier, and no way he is below all those guys.

[CARDS2501]

I know you are not a Cub fan. I can see that you are clearly a Mets fan by the picture of that meaningless catch that Endy Chavez made in one of the best game sevens that I have ever seen.

No Aramis isn't below all of those other guys I just forgot to put him in there like I said earlier I did that in just a few minutes off of the top of my head. If I had to rate the guy though I would make him probably 84-86. He is below average defensively in both range factor and fielding percentage, he doesn't ever hustle, and isn't at all clutch (see what he did when Lee went down) He is too streaky to crack 90 I think 85 is a good place for him. He also strikes out fairly often without walking nearly enough and he doesn't hit for average (.279 for his career) and he only has a .332 career on base percentage

[everyday endy]

Meaningless? Maybe in the end it unfortunately turned out that way but you know that when he caught that ball it totally broke your heart. Omg how didnt we win that game! Oh well, better luck in 07

[CARDS2501]

That catch didn't break my heart nearly as bad as Suppan getting out of that jam in the bottom of the inning must have broken yours.

[Letemburn]

I know you are not a Cub fan. I can see that you are clearly a Mets fan by the picture of that meaningless catch that Endy Chavez made in one of the best game sevens that I have ever seen.

No Aramis isn't below all of those other guys I just forgot to put him in there like I said earlier I did that in just a few minutes off of the top of my head. If I had to rate the guy though I would make him probably 84-86. He is below average defensively in both range factor and fielding percentage, he doesn't ever hustle, and isn't at all clutch (see what he did when Lee went down) He is too streaky to crack 90 I think 85 is a good place for him. He also strikes out fairly often without walking nearly enough and he doesn't hit for average (.279 for his career) and he only has a .332 career on base percentage

A 85 for ARAM but a 88 for Rolen dont make much since to me (Not arguing, just dont agree lol)

I agree with you on defense that he doesnt hustle lots of times but ARam is solid at what he does IMO. Lots of people forget he wasnt 100% playing out there when everyone was calling him lazy.

His OBP last year was .352 and as i understand Rolens wasnt too much better, not for sure what it was, but if i recall its not much better (Correct me if im wrong). Rolen hit i think .29 last year with 22 HR's while ARam hit .291 with 38 HR's. I dont think there should be a 3-4 point diff. btw the two to tell you the truth. IMO ARam had the better bat the past two years while Rolen has the better D.

ARam was rated a 93 in MLB last year when he hit .302 with 31 HR's so i actually see ARam sitting at about 88, right where you had Rolen.

[CARDS2501]

A 85 for ARAM but a 88 for Rolen dont make much since to me (Not arguing, just dont agree lol)

I agree with you on defense that he doesnt hustle lots of times but ARam is solid at what he does IMO. Lots of people forget he wasnt 100% playing out there when everyone was calling him lazy.

His OBP last year was .352 and as i understand Rolens wasnt too much better, not for sure what it was, but if i recall its not much better (Correct me if im wrong). Rolen hit i think .29 last year with 22 HR's while ARam hit .291 with 38 HR's. I dont think there should be a 3-4 point diff. btw the two to tell you the truth. IMO ARam had the better bat the past two years while Rolen has the better D.

ARam was rated a 93 in MLB last year when he hit .302 with 31 HR's so i actually see ARam sitting at about 88, right where you had Rolen.


I may have had Rolen a little high but consider this. He is the best defensive third baseman arguably ever, and over the course of 162 games he is better than Aramis Ramirez in almost every way. Below are each players 162 game averages over their careers that I compiled from Baseball-reference.com.

Scott Rolen: 594 AB, 105 RUNS, 169 HITS, 41 DOUBLES, 3 TRIPLES, 29 HR, 111 RBI, 12 SB, 5 CS, 79 BB, 121 K, .285 AVG, .375 OBP, .515 SLG, 306 TB, 7 SAC, 6 IBB, 10 HBP, 12 GIDP

Aramis Ramirez: 603 AB, 80 RUNS, 168 HITS, 35 DOUBLES, 2 TRIPLES, 30 HR, 104 RBI, 2 SB, 2 CS, 43 BB, 92 K, .279 AVG, .332 OBP, .493 SLG, 298 TB, 7 SAC, 4 IBB, 8 HBP, 18 GIDP.

Rolen dominates him in every category except Homeruns (trails by 1) and strikeouts. If you are going to bring up injury as a defense for Ramirez not hustling (which isn't true because he was lazy in Pittsburgh also) then you have to take into account that Rolen just came off of MAJOR shoulder surgery and wasn't 100% at any time last year. Fact is Rolen is a lot better player than Ramirez and the numbers don't lie.

[Trevytrev11]

Realisticly, if you had to play a big game and you could have either Arroyo or Glavine start the game for you, just tell me who you'd pick. Players aren't just stats, so if you want to make the argument that Arroyo deserves a better rating in A VIDEO GAME because he era is lower than glavine's, youre wrong, but fine. What you can't do however is say that Arroyo is a better pitcher right now than Tom Glavine is.

I have never really liked Glavine because to me he has always been a brave and had a huge soft spot in his heart for atlanta, but he is one of us now. So im not going to get so worked up defending him like your last sentence suggests i will, but i believe as a bias baseball fan that Glavine is the better pitcher.

Your talking about "clutch factor" here. Glavine is the better pitcher in a big game, but Arroyo was the better pitcher over the long haul. Also Glavine has had a lot more experinece in these "big games" since he was in the playoffs damn near every year of his career.

If your giving out ratings simply based on how a player performs in the clutch, than Marco Scutaro is one of the top middle infielders in the game. He hits about .230 during the course of the season, but probably closer to .400 in important, "clutch" situations.

This, I think is why a clutch factor would be nice. If they could come up with a system that rates how clutch a player is (it could be a combination of stats), they could apply it so that it effects a players overall ratings in these situations (which could be big games for everyone, big at bats for hitters and runner in scoring position situations for pitchers. In a nothing game, Glavine is average, but in a big game, he becomes a bit better. Same thing with Scutaro, maybe he's an overall 72 rated hitter, but with the winning run at second in the 9th inning, all of a sudden he's an 80.

Like every other rating in the game, it is unlikely that people would agree on how clutch is defined and which players are more clutch than others. (Many people will tell you that there is no "clutch" and that it is just a coincedence when a player gets a hit in this situation compared to a non-clutch situation).

[Brewhaha]

I'll try to throw together what I think the Brewers ratings will be, it's gonna be tough because I haven't played 2k6 so I really don't know the rating system very well, but you'll get the idea.

C: Johnny Estrada 80, Damian Miller 76
1b: Prince Fielder 82
2b: Rickie Weeks 79, Tony Graffanino 75
ss: JJ Hardy 74
3b: Corey Koskie 77, Ryan Braun 70
OF: Bill Hall 89, Geoff Jenkins 71, Corey Hart 75, Kevin Mench 68, Gabe Gross, 70

Starting Pitchers:
Ben Sheets 93
Chris Capuano 89
Dave Bush 84
Jeff Suppan 81
Claudio Vargas 76
Carlos Villanueva 77

Bullpen:
Francisco Cordero 94
Derrick Turnbow 71
Matt Wise 75
Jose Capellan 78


Look alright?

[CARDS2501]

Like every other rating in the game, it is unlikely that people would agree on how clutch is defined and which players are more clutch than others. (Many people will tell you that there is no "clutch" and that it is just a coincedence when a player gets a hit in this situation compared to a non-clutch situation).


Oh there are DEFINETLY clutch players and I think that a lot of it is their mental makeup and how well they react to pressure situations. For example David Ortiz, Edgar Renteria and Albert Pujols all handle big moments very well and they have a tendancy to deliever in key situations whereas Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa and Brad Lidge often come up short when it is all on the line. I think a good way to create a rating for clutch hitting would be to simply look at the players stats (avg. obp. rbi) in close and late situations. It would be a little more difficult to put a clutch value on pitching but it could be done by using quality starts and holds for starters and relievers and blown saves for closers but that isn't perfect either if anyone has any suggestions as to how you could rate clutch for pitchers I would love to hear them.

Suprisingly enough Geoff Jenkins led the league last year with 24 hits in 58 at bats with 2 HR 15 RBI and 12 walks in the late innings of close games. So with a .414 average .621 slugging percentage .500 on base percentage Jenkins would be the definition of clutch.

[everyday endy]

I'll try to throw together what I think the Brewers ratings will be, it's gonna be tough because I haven't played 2k6 so I really don't know the rating system very well, but you'll get the idea.

C: Johnny Estrada 80, Damian Miller 76
1b: Prince Fielder 82
2b: Rickie Weeks 79, Tony Graffanino 75
ss: JJ Hardy 74
3b: Corey Koskie 77, Ryan Braun 70
OF: Bill Hall 89, Geoff Jenkins 71, Corey Hart 75, Kevin Mench 68, Gabe Gross, 70

Starting Pitchers:
Ben Sheets 93
Chris Capuano 89
Dave Bush 84
Jeff Suppan 81
Claudio Vargas 76
Carlos Villanueva 77

Bullpen:
Francisco Cordero 94
Derrick Turnbow 71
Matt Wise 75
Jose Capellan 78


Look alright?

I think Sheets and Cordero are a little high, and weeks is a little low. Everything else looks pretty good though.

[kegoolsby]

Oh there are DEFINETLY clutch players and I think that a lot of it is their mental makeup and how well they react to pressure situations. For example David Ortiz, Edgar Renteria and Albert Pujols all handle big moments very well and they have a tendancy to deliever in key situations whereas Alex Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa and Brad Lidge often come up short when it is all on the line.


The same Alex Rodriguez who hit .239/.418/.520 in 2005? Edgar Renteria who hit .209/.330/.314 last year? The problem with calling a player "clutch" is that almost all players fluctuate severly in their close and late performances from year to year. There are occasionally freaks like David Ortiz who are truly phenomenal in close and late situations, but there are only a handful of players this applies to.


And by the way folks, Fielding Percentage is useless stat that really misleading. If you want anyone to take your fielding arguments seriously, find a serious stat, like UZR, or use the Fielding Bible.

[CARDS2501]

Yes the same Edgar Renteria that won the World Series for the Marlins and the same Edgar Renteria would had more big hits in his career as a Cardinal than ANY other player on the team including Pujols. Yes the same ARod that was 1/14 in the Division Series against the Tigers and 2/15 the year before against the Angels

[kegoolsby]

I may have had Rolen a little high but consider this. He is the best defensive third baseman arguably ever, and over the course of 162 games he is better than Aramis Ramirez in almost every way.

Rolen dominates him in every category except Homeruns (trails by 1) and strikeouts. If you are going to bring up injury as a defense for Ramirez not hustling (which isn't true because he was lazy in Pittsburgh also) then you have to take into account that Rolen just came off of MAJOR shoulder surgery and wasn't 100% at any time last year. Fact is Rolen is a lot better player than Ramirez and the numbers don't lie.

Its funny that you used baseballreference.com but missed something big. Did you see who Aram's #1 comparable through age 28 was? Rolen.

If you look at their OPS+ numbers both players are pretty similar. Rolen is a better defender, but he's also older and has shown it over the last couple of seasons. Rolen should probably have a slightly higher rating this year, but it should be close, and getting closer in the next years.

[CARDS2501]

You are right however many players do flucuate from year to year. There has to be some way to value this stat though if not close and late then you could do it based on performance in big games (postseason games or games with playoff implications)

[CARDS2501]

Its funny that you used baseballreference.com but missed something big. Did you see who Aram's #1 comparable through age 28 was? Rolen.

If you look at their OPS+ numbers both players are pretty similar. Rolen is a better defender, but he's also older and has shown it over the last couple of seasons. Rolen should probably have a slightly higher rating this year, but it should be close, and getting closer in the next years.

I agree with that statement that they should be getting closer but let me ask you this who would you rather have on your team a guy with Rolens career numbers and superb defense (probably saves a run a game) or Ramirez and his below league average defense and complete lack of hustle. Living an hour south of Chicago I see a lot of Cubs games and its not even funny how bad Ramirez is when he is in a cold streak. He is not consistant at all and when things start going bad for him he seems to just give up. He never runs out grounders he doesn't move runners along with less than 2 outs he is a lot like Sammy Sosa was he wants to be the star and he wants to hit the homeruns and to hell with helping the team win by taking a walk or hitting the ball to the right side with a man on second and no one out.


One other thing Rolen is a 5 time all-star and Ramirez has only been to one allstar game and coincidentally he only went to that one in 2005 because Rolen couldn't play due to injury.

[Letemburn]

I agree with that statement that they should be getting closer but let me ask you this who would you rather have on your team a guy with Rolens career numbers and superb defense (probably saves a run a game) or Ramirez and his below league average defense and complete lack of hustle. Living an hour south of Chicago I see a lot of Cubs games and its not even funny how bad Ramirez is when he is in a cold streak. He is not consistant at all and when things start going bad for him he seems to just give up. He never runs out grounders he doesn't move runners along with less than 2 outs he is a lot like Sammy Sosa was he wants to be the star and he wants to hit the homeruns and to hell with helping the team win by taking a walk or hitting the ball to the right side with a man on second and no one out.


One other thing Rolen is a 5 time all-star and Ramirez has only been to one allstar game and coincidentally he only went to that one in 2005 because Rolen couldn't play due to injury.


That is a totally false statement. Do you not remember how bad Ramirez started off last year? He never gave up, he brought his average all the way back up, he was batting .250 for as long as i can remember.

Yeah if we look at career numbers Rolen is better, Rolen also has a couple more years in him then Ramirez also. Ramirez didnt start to become what he is until his last year with Pitt. If Ramirez continues what he has the past 3 years theres no doubt in my mind Aramis's career numbers will be better then Rolens by the end of his career.

[K_chance]

hey can one of u guys project raitings for the cubs.. im curious to see.. and even if it is the card fan, ill j keep in mind u hate the cubs...

[kyleb]

I'll do the Red Sox:
Lugo-79
Youkilis-80
Papi-93
MANRAM-95
Drew-89
Lowell-79
Varitek-83
Coco Crisp-85
Dustin Pedroia-72 Prospect
Bench-
Willy MO- 77
Alex Cora-73
Mirabelli-76
Hinske-80

Pitching-
Schilling-88
Beckett-86
Dice K-86
Jon Papelbon-82
Wakefield-79
Bullpen-
Joel Pineiro-77
Craig Hansen-75
Brendan Donnely-80
RUNELVYS HERNANDEZ-75

[CARDS2501]

That is a totally false statement. Do you not remember how bad Ramirez started off last year? He never gave up, he brought his average all the way back up, he was batting .250 for as long as i can remember.

Thank you for making my point exactly. Did I not just say that he is inconsistant and streaky? Did you not just come on here and say that he started off bad and was hitting .250 for as long as you can remember? Seems like you yourself just proved exactly what I was saying. Good work!

[CARDS2501]

hey can one of u guys project raitings for the cubs.. im curious to see.. and even if it is the card fan, ill j keep in mind u hate the cubs...


Here goes I will do my best to remain impartial

2007 Chicago Cubs

Catchers
Michael Barrett-87
Henry Blanco-69
Geovany Soto-48

Infielders
Ronny Cedeno-71
Mark DeRosa-79
Brian Dopirak-52
Cesar Izturis-77
Derek Lee-90
Scott Moore-62
Aramis Ramirez-85
Ryan Theriot-78

Outfielders
Buck Coates-49
Jacque Jones-76
Matt Murton-78
Angel Pagan -69
Felix Pie-70
Alfonso Soriano-93
Daryle Ward-72

Pitchers
Neal Cotts-65
Ryan Dempster-79
Scott Eyre-79
Angel Guzman-66
Rich Hill-78
Bob Howry-80
Ted Lilly-80
Carlos Marmol-68
Jason Marquis-75
Sean Marshall-75
Juan Mateo-69
Wade Miller-78
Roberto Novoa-66
Will Ohman-71
Mark Prior-83
Glendon Rusch-74
Jae Kuk Ryu-60
Kerry Wood-83
Michael Wuertz-80
Carlos Zambrano-93

[CARDS2501]

I might as well do the Cardinals as well seeing as how no one else has and I would like to show the Cubs fans that I am being impartial and can be hard on my own team as well.

Catchers
Gary Bennett-74
Michel Hernandez-51
Yadier Molina-80

Infielders
David Eckstein-82
Adam Kennedy-82
Aaron Miles-73
Albert Pujols-98
Scott Rolen-88
Scott Spezio-75

Outfielders
Chris Duncan-79
Jim Edmonds-85
Juan Encarnacion-78
John Rodriguez-70
Skip Schumaker-65
So Taguchi-71

Pitchers
Chris Carpenter-95
Brian Falkenborg-62
Randy Flores-73
Ryan Franklin-77
Josh Hancock-74
Jason Isringhausen-83
Tyler Johnson-71
Randy Keisler-60
Josh Kinney-68
Braden Looper-79
Mark Mulder-85
Chris Narveson-68
Anthony Reyes-74
Ricardo Rincon-70
Russ Springer-72
Brad Thompson- 70
Adam Wainwright-80
Kip Wells-79


I think a big difference in the Cardinals ratings and the Cubs ratings are that the Cardinals have a lot more players with longer time in the big leagues whereas the Cubs are playing a lot of guys with minimal service time.

[Brewhaha]

I hate the Cubs, i'll tell you that much

[Letemburn]

Thank you for making my point exactly. Did I not just say that he is inconsistant and streaky? Did you not just come on here and say that he started off bad and was hitting .250 for as long as you can remember? Seems like you yourself just proved exactly what I was saying. Good work!

I never said he didnt struggle at times. In the mean time i proved your point wrong, that he just gives up when hes doing bad. If someone is doing bad and gives up, then how do you raise your average that much? You say hes inconsistant from last year? Everyone and i mean everyone has bad times, its a hell of a long season and if you dont hit a slump sometime during the season then your pretty much god, yes almighty Pujols even has his slumps.

[Trevytrev11]

I never said he didnt struggle at times. In the mean time i proved your point wrong, that he just gives up when hes doing bad. If someone is doing bad and gives up, then how do you raise your average that much? You say hes inconsistant from last year? Everyone and i mean everyone has bad times, its a hell of a long season and if you dont hit a slump sometime during the season then your pretty much god, yes almighty Pujols even has his slumps.

I think he's saying that when Pujols struggles, he still busts is *****.

It's kind of like Randy Moss in the NFL. If he's not involved in the game, he just kind of gives up that game. He doesn't block, he doesn't run his routes if the play isn't designed for him. But you look at a guy like Marvin Harrison, he may have 1 catch through the first 3 quarters, but he's still running his routes as best he can, he's still blocking, etc in the 4th quarter.

All players go through slumps and get frustrated, but most players don't dog it for the team just because they are having a rough time. Just because you are 0-4 and pop up on your 5th at bat doesn't mean you still shouldn't run out the pop up or just give away an at bat.

[teddysjam]

Has anyone done the Padres ratings.

Peavy 88
Maddux 85
Young 83
Hensley 75
Wells 81
Hoffman 90 (All time saves leader)

1B Gonzalez 85
2B Giles 80
SS Greene 78
3B Koz. not sure of his last name from the Indians 75
LF Sledge 73
CF Cameron 87
RF Giles 83
C Bard 75.

As you can tell Padres doesn't have much offense Petco Park is not a hitters park, but I do believe their rotation in better than avg. The best in the NL West Back-to-Back Division Champs

[CARDS2501]

I never said he didnt struggle at times. In the mean time i proved your point wrong, that he just gives up when hes doing bad. If someone is doing bad and gives up, then how do you raise your average that much? You say hes inconsistant from last year? Everyone and i mean everyone has bad times, its a hell of a long season and if you dont hit a slump sometime during the season then your pretty much god, yes almighty Pujols even has his slumps.

The almighty Pujols as you called him really is as close to slump proof as you can get. The longest game streak that he has had in his entire career without a hit is 4 games and that happened once. Last year he had 1 three game stretch without a hit and that is it. Also you did not prove my point wrong you did exactly the opposite. If I said that he is streaky then that means he has a few weeks when he is absolutely on fire so that is how he would have gotten his average up. So once again thank you for proving my point. Since you are a Cubs fan and clearly you think that your team is going to win it all this year (much the same as you think every year) and you think that Aramis Ramirez is the best thing that ever happened to 3B since that joke Ron Santo retired I will even back it up with some more cold hard facts. Lets take a look at last September and you can see exactly how streaky Aramis Ramirez is. From 9/1/06 - 9/9/06 he had a whole 5 hits in 33 at bats. From 9/10/06 - 9/18/06 he got hot and had 17 hits in 34 at bats. Just like any streaky he had to cool off again and sure enough from 9/19/06 - 9/30/06 Amommas Ramirez went a cool 8 for 31. Tell me now that this is not the definition of a streaky hitter right down to the letter. He is either red hot or ice cold and that is a big part of the reason that the cubs lose an average of 90 games over their last two seasons. They have no consistancy throughout their lineup just a bunch of streaky hitters that don't get on base enough. I believe the Cubs were 29th out of 30 teams last year in OBP.

[Kal_el35]

Someone needs to do the Yankees ratings. I would, but I'm not very good at things like that.

[CARDS2501]

Has anyone done the Padres ratings.

Peavy 88
Maddux 85
Young 83
Hensley 75
Wells 81
Hoffman 90 (All time saves leader)

1B Gonzalez 85
2B Giles 80
SS Greene 78
3B Koz. not sure of his last name from the Indians 75
LF Sledge 73
CF Cameron 87
RF Giles 83
C Bard 75.

As you can tell Padres doesn't have much offense Petco Park is not a hitters park, but I do believe their rotation in better than avg. The best in the NL West Back-to-Back Division Champs


Looks good to me except I don't think that Gonzalez deserves an 85 YET. Maybe in the future but right now I think that he more of a 81-83 don't get me wrong he is a nice player but he just needs a little more time. I do think that he will end up 85-90.

[CARDS2501]

Someone needs to do the Yankees ratings. I would, but I'm not very good at things like that.

I've obviously got nothing going on right now so here goes let me know what you think.

Catchers
Wil Nieves-54
Jorge Posada-84

Infielders
Miguel Cairo-75
Robinson Cano-83
Jason Giambi-85
Derek Jeter-90
Doug Mientkiewicz-71
Juan Miranda-60
Josh Phelps-67
Andy Phillips-69
Alex Rodriguez-95

Outfielders
Bobby Abreu-86
Melky Cabrera-79
Johnny Damon-87
Hideki Matsui-85
Kevin Reese-64
Kevin Thompson-65

Pitchers
T.J. Beam-51
Colter Bean-58
Chris Britton-63
Brian Bruney-62
Kyle Farnsworth-80
Sean Henn-58
Kei Igawa-78
Jeff Karstens-64
Mike Mussina-85
Mike Myers-72
Carl Pavano-77
Andy Pettitte-84
Scott Proctor-80
Darrell Rasner-63
Mariano Rivera-95
Humberto Sanchez-59
Jose Veras-67
Luis Vizcaino-76
Chien-Ming Wang-88

[yankee242B]

The only things I would argue with about the Yankees' ratings are that Cairo and Cabrera are too high and Sanchez is too low. Word is he's Major League-ready, and I wouldn't consider that a 60.

As a side note, I came in late to the argument about Ramirez. I started reading it and, until I saw "Cubs" and his first name, I would have sworn you were talking about Manny.

[Letemburn]

The almighty Pujols as you called him really is as close to slump proof as you can get. The longest game streak that he has had in his entire career without a hit is 4 games and that happened once. Last year he had 1 three game stretch without a hit and that is it. Also you did not prove my point wrong you did exactly the opposite. If I said that he is streaky then that means he has a few weeks when he is absolutely on fire so that is how he would have gotten his average up. So once again thank you for proving my point. Since you are a Cubs fan and clearly you think that your team is going to win it all this year (much the same as you think every year) and you think that Aramis Ramirez is the best thing that ever happened to 3B since that joke Ron Santo retired I will even back it up with some more cold hard facts. Lets take a look at last September and you can see exactly how streaky Aramis Ramirez is. From 9/1/06 - 9/9/06 he had a whole 5 hits in 33 at bats. From 9/10/06 - 9/18/06 he got hot and had 17 hits in 34 at bats. Just like any streaky he had to cool off again and sure enough from 9/19/06 - 9/30/06 Amommas Ramirez went a cool 8 for 31. Tell me now that this is not the definition of a streaky hitter right down to the letter. He is either red hot or ice cold and that is a big part of the reason that the cubs lose an average of 90 games over their last two seasons. They have no consistancy throughout their lineup just a bunch of streaky hitters that don't get on base enough. I believe the Cubs were 29th out of 30 teams last year in OBP.

Honestly, i have no clue how we got into this discussion about this as i just simply stated that Rolen would not be rated that much higher then Ramirez. We are talking about 2k rating the players. Not me, nor you. 2k isnt gonna go in and look at the things you did, they IMO dont care near that much or near as much as they should. ARAM is streaky at times yes, either cold or hot, but that is not all the time, ARAM can handle is own and IMO has proved that to a lot of people. I also agree with the one guy who said he is like Moss, thats the perfect comparison. Im not saying ARAM is the best 3B or even near it, im saying hes a player who will get higher then the 84-85 that you gave him. ARAM may deserve something like a 87 IMO but with the way 2k rates, im sure we will see him hit 89-90 at the very least, i mean he was a 93 overall last year.

[CARDS2501]

It took me a long time to decide what to do with Sanchez. In the end i decided it was hard to give a guy a high rating who had neverput on a mlb uniform before. time will tell on this one. you are right cairo is a little high but i like cabrera right where he is. As soon as he is traded and he gets regular playing time he is going to be very good

[CARDS2501]

Honestly, i have no clue how we got into this discussion about this as i just simply stated that Rolen would not be rated that much higher then Ramirez. We are talking about 2k rating the players. Not me, nor you. 2k isnt gonna go in and look at the things you did, they IMO dont care near that much or near as much as they should. ARAM is streaky at times yes, either cold or hot, but that is not all the time, ARAM can handle is own and IMO has proved that to a lot of people. I also agree with the one guy who said he is like Moss, thats the perfect comparison. Im not saying ARAM is the best 3B or even near it, im saying hes a player who will get higher then the 84-85 that you gave him. ARAM may deserve something like a 87 IMO but with the way 2k rates, im sure we will see him hit 89-90 at the very least, i mean he was a 93 overall last year.

No one expects 2k to look at any of this. This thread is about what we think players should be rated. You have your opinion and I have mine which I have supported with hard evidence.

[sayheykidetn]

cano batted 342 last year i think hes rated too low

[Letemburn]

And yes your evidence is pretty damn good. But you are pointing out all the great things for Rolen and the bad things for Ramirez is my point. Im sure you could go in and disect (sp?) Rolen and find some things wrong with him also. No ones perfect.

Im done with it here, as you said we all have diff. opinions. Your facts are very good but there are many guys that i have seen you give higher ratings then Ramirez that i dont see deserve it if Ramirez dont.

Lets jump off topic for a second...What system you getting the game for CARDS?

[Kal_el35]

Cards...

Thanks. I think that is pretty accurate. I would probably tweak it a little bit. I like where Jorge is but I probably wouldn't rate him that high. Especially if you rank Cano below him as an 83...I think Jorge is an 82 and Cano should be higher. They guy hit .342 this year...that should qualify him to be at least an 85-87..plus his defense has gotten much better. I think (especially based on last year...cuz that's how the ratings will probably work) Jeter should be a couple points higher and Arod a couple points lower. Now if they do base it on last years stats then Matsui will not be anywhere near 85 because of all the games he missed...although I think that is a good rating for him. I might put Damon a point or two higher due to his increase in power...but his decrease in overall hits and average would probably even that out. As for the pitchers...Bruney could be a few points higher considering he was lights out last year for the short time he pitched. I'd give him at least 67-68. I like where you put Igawa, Mo, and Pavano but I think Wang should be about 90-91. He did finish 2nd in the Cy Young race. As a Yankee fan, I think almost all of that was right on the money. Any other Yankee fans have any input?

And Cards...just for fun, where do you think Philip Hughes will be ranked considering he is pretty much the best pitching prospect in the minors along with Homer Bailey?

[CARDS2501]

And yes your evidence is pretty damn good. But you are pointing out all the great things for Rolen and the bad things for Ramirez is my point. Im sure you could go in and disect (sp?) Rolen and find some things wrong with him also. No ones perfect.

Im done with it here, as you said we all have diff. opinions. Your facts are very good but there are many guys that i have seen you give higher ratings then Ramirez that i dont see deserve it if Ramirez dont.

Lets jump off topic for a second...What system you getting the game for CARDS?

Absuletly Scott Rolen cannot stay healthy. He is injury prone and misses a lot of time because of it. Xbox 360

[CARDS2501]

And Cards...just for fun, where do you think Philip Hughes will be ranked considering he is pretty much the best pitching prospect in the minors along with Homer Bailey?

Considering neither have pitched it the Majors yet I would have Hughes come into the game at 70 and Bailey at 71 but they would certainly increase in the following years

[Kal_el35]

Considering neither have pitched it the Majors yet I would have Hughes come into the game at 70 and Bailey at 71 but they would certainly increase in the following years

That sounds fair.

[K_chance]

thank you for doing the cubbies... even though i disagree with jones.. i would have him rated an 80-82.. and i no cotts sucked last year but u think he is a 65???...

[K_chance]

2007 Chicago Cubs

Catchers
Michael Barrett-87
Henry Blanco-70
Geovany Soto-48

Infielders
Ronny Cedeno-71
Mark DeRosa-80
Brian Dopirak-54
Cesar Izturis-77
Derek Lee-92
Scott Moore-62
Aramis Ramirez-88
Ryan Theriot-77

Outfielders
Buck Coates-50
Jacque Jones-81
Matt Murton-79
Angel Pagan -70
Felix Pie-72
Alfonso Soriano-93
Daryle Ward-74

Pitchers
Neal Cotts-71
Ryan Dempster-79
Scott Eyre-82
Angel Guzman-68
Rich Hill-78
Bob Howry-81
Ted Lilly-80
Carlos Marmol-68
Jason Marquis-75
Sean Marshall-76
Juan Mateo-69
Wade Miller-78
Roberto Novoa-66
Will Ohman-71
Mark Prior-83
Glendon Rusch-70
Jae Kuk Ryu-60
Kerry Wood-84
Michael Wuertz-79
Carlos Zambrano-95

[NGOChocolate]

Eh i'm bored as well.. i'll do Diamondbacks ratings.

C- Chris Snyder- 74
1B- Conor Jackson- 79
2B- Orlando Hudson- 83
3B- Chad Tracy- 79
SS- Stephen Drew- 80
LF- Eric Byrnes- 80
CF- Chris Young- 74
RF- Carlos Quentin- 77

SP- Brandon Webb 93
SP- Randy Johnson 86 or 88
SP- Livan Hernandez 83
SP- Doug Davis 81

CL- Jose Valverde 80

[CARDS2501]

who wants to do the Washington Nationals?

[CARDS2501]

thank you for doing the cubbies... even though i disagree with jones.. i would have him rated an 80-82.. and i no cotts sucked last year but u think he is a 65???...

He's sucked his whole career his career stats are like this 10-7 4.82 era in 199 games 193 inning pitched so less than 1 inning a game and he has even started 5 games. 178 hits and 100 walks so he basically allows 1.5 runners an inning. He does strike out about .80 batters an inning. As a whole this guy is just another guy to fill out your roster nothing great nothing special. maybe he can get up into the 69-73 range but until he proves that he is any good I will keep him lower. By the way since he is a left handed specialist he shouldn't be giving up anywhere near 1.5 hits/walks an inning because he is usually in the game only to face 1 or 2 hitters.

[slickkill77]

Um those diamond backs ratings are iffy....Tracy a 79? Brandon Webb a 93?

[NGOChocolate]

Um those diamond backs ratings are iffy....Tracy a 79? Brandon Webb a 93?

Iffy as in bad or iffy as in good?

I was doing the ratings compared to how other members rated their team.

If Mark DeRosa could get an 80, Tracy could get a 79. If Brandon Inge could get an 83 based on users opinions, why not Tracy's rating?

And Webb was the NL Cy Young, why shouldn't he get an 90+ Rating?

[funknfive]

anyone want to take a shot at the phillies?

[JoeCoolMan24]

I agree with NGO's rating except Tracy and Randy Johnson. I only gave Mark Buehrle an 89, so an 88 for Johnson would be rediculous.

I would say...

Tracy - 83
Johnson - 81

Tracy, minus fielding, is a really good young player.

[NGOChocolate]

Mark Buehrle 89? 12-13 with a 5 ERA?
Randy Johnson 81?? 16-9 5 ERA

They both have similar stats minus the Wins and losses, they both should get the same rating.

[SmokinAces]

Zito 92???????????????????

[Prime Time]

San Francisco Giants:

Joe Young --- 83
Dave Roberts --- 85
Randy Winn --- 81
Pedro Feliz --- 71
Omar Vizquel --- 88
Ray Durham --- 85
Rich Aurilia --- 80
Bengie Molina --- 78

Barry Zito --- 90
Matt Cain --- 86
Matt Morris --- 75
Noah Lowry --- 75
Jonathan Sanchez --- 63
Brad Hennessey --- 65

[JoeCoolMan24]

Mark Buehrle 89? 12-13 with a 5 ERA?
Randy Johnson 81?? 16-9 5 ERA

They both have similar stats minus the Wins and losses, they both should get the same rating.


I think they base players more on the last couple years, more than 1 year. in which case....

Buehrle - 28-21, 195 ER, 441 IP, 3.98 ERA
Johnson - 34-19, 209 ER, 431 IP, 4.36 ERA

Also, Buehrle is 16 years younger, and Johnson such a better W-L total because he played with the Yankees the last 2 years.

I revise my number on Johnson, and give him an 83. But the fact he is 43 years old makes me give him the biggest hit in ratings.

[Michiguy]

Ok i feel obligated to give an explanation on why Brandon Inge got a rating of an 83 from me like he was over-rated. The fact is the guy flat out is always gotten a bad rap when it comes to defense. Yes i admit he makes 25 errors a year including the most by a 3rd baseman the past 2 years, BUT he also turns 75 other so-be hits into outs. Look at the numbers. The past 2 years he has lead the major's in fielding chances, put-outs and double plays turned by a 3rd baseman. So initially i can argue that the more chances you see, the more likely you boot one. This past year he led the majors by a wide margin in range factor. The guy has a gun, incredable reflexes and extremely accurate with his throws. You all know you saw him on sportscenter/baseball tonight making insane stops 3-4 nights a week.

So would you rather have Chavez, who yes is an outstanding defensive player who is as mobile as Cedric the Entertainer or a cat at the corner who takes away base hits that no other 3rd basdeman can do on a daily basis.

Now offensively yeah he had a down year average wise. But his power numbers (HR's,RBI's) have gone up each year. And you have to also look at the fact that he did all that damage batting 9th!!!!!!!!!!! He's not your regular 3-5th guys who SHOULD get you 25-30 homers and 90-100 rbi's on a yearly basis. He did that batting 9th for crying out loud.

So i give him a 75 offensively and a 95 deffensively which actually averages out to 85, but i deducted a couple of points because yeah he also boots easy plays that Barry Bonds can make sitting in his "special"chair from the clubhouse.

[everyday endy]

So would you rather have Chavez, who yes is an outstanding defensive player who is as mobile as Cedric the Entertainer or a cat at the corner who takes away base hits that no other 3rd basdeman can do on a daily basis.

Wow, that is classic! haha and i love cedric.

[Michiguy]

Why thank you, i hope you enjoy my comedic wits. Oh and to throw something else on the fire. Brandon Inge in high school and college was a Shortstop and a Closer. The Tigers drafted him and threw him at catcher cuz they had no other prospect in the system at the catcher's position (which they still don't have...........sighs) So you all can understand how he was able to make the change back to the field in front of the plate so far.

[JoeCoolMan24]

Why thank you, i hope you enjoy my comedic wits. Oh and to throw something else on the fire. Brandon Inge in high school and college was a Shortstop and a Closer. The Tigers drafted him and threw him at catcher cuz they had no other prospect in the system at the catcher's position (which they still don't have...........sighs) So you all can understand how he was able to make the change back to the field in front of the plate so far.


bottom line is he isnt as good offensively, or defensively as Crede. The best all around 3B in the AL. :) But Inge is probably #3. Lowell is pretty good too.

[Michiguy]

I'll give Crede the credit offensively and yes he is great defensively. But i give him number 3 overall behind Inge and Rolen. Again, Inge gets to more balls then anyone else, including Crede. But Inge is no match for what Crede can do offensively. I have zero argument there. But i'll take Inge at thirdbase defensively over anyone. Heck i'll even put him in centerfield over alot of guys in the league.

[JoeCoolMan24]

I'll give Crede the credit offensively and yes he is great defensively. But i give him number 3 overall behind Inge and Rolen. Again, Inge gets to more balls then anyone else, including Crede. But Inge is no match for what Crede can do offensively. I have zero argument there. But i'll take Inge at thirdbase defensively over anyone. Heck i'll even put him in centerfield over alot of guys in the league.

I think Inge and Crede are close enough defensively that the HUGE offensive advantage Crede has makes him better overall.


Also, Rolen is in the NL. I said AL :)

[Michiguy]

I know you said the AL, i just had to include Rolen because i said overall. But it will be a fun year in the Central Division. 4 teams grabbing up maybe only 1 spot for the playoffs. Just a friendly goodluck to you and the ChiSox. Let the games begin in April.

[yankee242B]

This is a Tiger fan and a White Sox fan arguing over who has the better third baseman. What do you know, they picked their own guys. Hilarious. ;)

[CARDS2501]

This is a Tiger fan and a White Sox fan arguing over who has the better third baseman. What do you know, they picked their own guys. Hilarious. ;)

The most hilarious part of it is the fact that the numbers aren't their to support either of their arguments. The Tiger fan says that Inge is a cat and he gets to more balls than anyone in the league yet he has a career fielding percentage of .955 at third base while the league average has been .957 over his career. He also has a career range factor of 3.09 which is above the league average of 2.48. Crede on the other hand has a better than league average fielding percentage over his career at .968 while the league average was .955 over his career, but his range factor has been 2.57 barely at all over the league average of 2.42.

Conversely lets look at the most prominent third baseman in the AL, Eric Chavez. Chavez has had a career fielding percentage of .968 which is over the league average of .952. He has also had a range factor of 2.77 which is over the league average of 2.39 during his career. So Chavez is better than Crede is defensively all the way around and it appears that Inge has a better range factor but makes more errors so that could be a toss up. I guess what would be the deciding factor between Inge and Chavez would come down to errors. In 3316 innings at third Inge has 57 error or an average of 1 error every 58 innings or so while Eric Chavez has a total of 103 errors in 8745 innings at third for an average of 1 error every 85 innings. Pretty huge difference there.

[yankee242B]

You can't go by fielding percentage. That is a terrible stat.

If you look at Range Factor, Inge was the best 3B in the Majors last year with a 3.45; Crede was second last year with a 3.24. Inge was also the best in Zone Rating with an .825. Crede was a bit farther down the list at a .790.

I'm going to guess they were going by just last year. And please, never use fielding percentage in a discussion about defensive ability. Thank you for using RF and ZR later, though.

[CARDS2501]

Fielding percentage has to be used in any discussion about fielding for the simple reason it doesn't matter how many balls you can get to if you can't throw them to first base. I do agree that fielding percentage is an imperfect stat just like Wins, Losses, Strikeouts and Saves are bad stats for judging a pitcher but it isn't as bad as those stats. Fielding is the most difficult facet of the game to quantify with a number and until we get something better Fielding Percentage and Range Factor are going to have to do.

[CARDS2501]

To add to the discussion its really not fair to go by just 1 years worth of stats either. Anyone can have a good year but special player can string several good years together. By the way the only player in the AL with more errors at 3B than Brandon Inge (22) was Arod (24) and you Yankee242b would know better than anyone that most of Arod's errors came in bunches during a point in the season when everything was falling apart for him.