Game Flaws that need to be addressed (Sega/Visual Concepts)

[saviour]

Here a some of the flaws that have been driving me nuts with this years version of the game. Chime in if you agree.

1. Running way too strong. C'mon running backs average 200 yds per game in this game

2. Missed tackes on every play. You cannot get a clean tackle on a top running back

3. O-Lineman that never block blitzing D-linemen. How many times have you been sacked and watched the replay and your O-line never touched the D-lineman. The guy would be out of the league in real life if that happened

4. Reciever animations caused dropped passes. I hate seeing recievers reach for a ball and have it hit them in the head because the animation is not syncronized properly.

5. Defenders magically fall down in pile ups. Sega built in gang tackles but when someone is in a pile, defenders will fall down without being touched. And when tackled, you cant initiate a gang tackle becuase the game automatticly slows your player down even though the offensive palyer is pushing your guy dow the field for 6 yds. Amazing..

6. Defensive AI. The game plays at half speed when you are not controlling the player. This allows you to take control of the offensive player and blow past the defender.

[PrimeTime21]

Here a some of the flaws that have been driving me nuts with this years version of the game. Chime in if you agree.

1. Running way too strong. C'mon running backs average 200 yds per game in this game

2. Missed tackes on every play. You cannot get a clean tackle on a top running back

3. O-Lineman that never block blitzing D-linemen. How many times have you been sacked and watched the replay and your O-line never touched the D-lineman. The guy would be out of the league in real life if that happened

4. Reciever animations caused dropped passes. I hate seeing recievers reach for a ball and have it hit them in the head because the animation is not syncronized properly.

5. Defenders magically fall down in pile ups. Sega built in gang tackles but when someone is in a pile, defenders will fall down without being touched. And when tackled, you cant initiate a gang tackle becuase the game automatticly slows your player down even though the offensive palyer is pushing your guy dow the field for 6 yds. Amazing..

6. Defensive AI. The game plays at half speed when you are not controlling the player. This allows you to take control of the offensive player and blow past the defender.

before you complain play on legend and then tell me you're still running for 200 a game

[GreyHoundSteve]

i thought everything mentioned was VERY VALID. I play BEYOUND legend and the only way the cpu stays in the game is by running 10 times faster and breaking 30 times more tackles. Even then i blow them out if i dont magically fumble the ball 4 times in a game. Anyone else notice your backs fumble 30times more than the cpu. I chose my punt returner based on his 99 secure ball rating and in a 16 game season he fumbled 6 times. My rb fumbled 12 times and my qb 4 times with other varous fumbles by wr's, its amazing.

[Viking84]

Here a some of the flaws that have been driving me nuts with this years version of the game. Chime in if you agree.

1. Running way too strong. C'mon running backs average 200 yds per game in this game

2. Missed tackes on every play. You cannot get a clean tackle on a top running back

3. O-Lineman that never block blitzing D-linemen. How many times have you been sacked and watched the replay and your O-line never touched the D-lineman. The guy would be out of the league in real life if that happened

4. Reciever animations caused dropped passes. I hate seeing recievers reach for a ball and have it hit them in the head because the animation is not syncronized properly.

5. Defenders magically fall down in pile ups. Sega built in gang tackles but when someone is in a pile, defenders will fall down without being touched. And when tackled, you cant initiate a gang tackle becuase the game automatticly slows your player down even though the offensive palyer is pushing your guy dow the field for 6 yds. Amazing..

6. Defensive AI. The game plays at half speed when you are not controlling the player. This allows you to take control of the offensive player and blow past the defender.

I agree.....It's the same thing again. Another year of big time flaws wrapped in a pretty package. Of course Sega diehards will defend the game as always and make excuses for it. But the fact is the flaws are there! I love ESPN...I want it to be the best out there because it just has all the things going for it that it should. But as usual they fall short with so many bad mistakes that after a month or so your sick of the game.

If people would quit telling Sega what a splendid job they did and tell like it is I bet by the following season the game would be damn near perfect.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind and I am really not trying to. But it is a shame that this game lacks quality because so many want it to work that they settle for it.......even with dozens of flaws!

[GreyHoundSteve]

Im a sega die hard and i think the peeps who ignore these flaws are ignorant. I have seen so many replies to these types of post that go like this "learn to play defense, Shift your defense, tackle with more players" those types of stupid statements drive me nuts. This game is WAY to easy. You should have to learn how to play OFFENSE to be good at a game not try and out gimmick the easy offense by hoping you guessed right on defense and then pray you dont get run over 5 times on one play. These peeps are the same guys who b*tch about Madden being so easy and then come here and just say "play better defense". Well heres an idea, how bout sega makes a game like last yr where it is equally difficult to learn both. I was scoring 42 points a game the 1st time i plugged in the disc. This game usually is decided by who ever turns the ball over or has it last. Sound like Madden to anyone else?

[saviour]

PrimeTime, why would you think that I don't play on legend. I am ranked 46th over all on legend and I have not played on anything but. Check the rankings before you make comments like that.

I did not even mention the fact that every kickoff returner is Dante Hall. I hate having to defend those things because a bad return gets you to the 40 yd line.

[saviour]

Also, I did not mention the divergences. This game has features that you cannot even use. Custom Playbooks anyone? Or maybe defensive matchups.

I love seeing my 4th best corner covering Randy Moss when I have Champ Bailey covering some nobody.

Although, I must admit they have improved the passing game over last years pop warner version. The recievers can hold the ball when tackled this year. But why throw when you can run for 300 yds I ask?

[GreyHoundSteve]

dont you know this game is perfect and we all suck.lol

[Steelaz1966]

My Steelers receivers can't hold the ball if they are hit by the Dolphins. Not every Sega fan makes excuses for the game. People that say 'learn to play defense' haven't played anyone with an ounce of skill. Two of the "top" guys on XBOX said that crap and then talked about a game against each other that was 63-57. Other dummies say "look at Jamal Lewis against the Browns". Guess what? They play 15 minute quarters not 5. 300 yards in 20 minutes adds up to 900 yards in one game. Look out Emmit, Ricky will catch you in one season.

They want to make it fun for everyone so just put extra programming into the different levels. If they need extra space, get rid of the cut scenes with the cheerleaders and the fans. All of the extra stuff is nice but, if you give me a game that plays realistically and doesn't have any fans, seats, people on the sidelines, etc., I'll take it.

[Bears34]

We should all take this game back. It is soooo aweful. Every running back gets 300yds a game, the defense can never stop anybody ever, every single kick is returned for a touchdown, and no online playbook or defensive double team. That is a digrace to mankind. WE SHOULD ALL RETURN THIS GAME TODAY FOR THAT FOOTBALL GAME THAT IS PERFECT!!!



once you guys find that perfect game let me know too.

The more I hear people complain the more I think its just the people that cant gameplan. I ve played quite a few games now and at first the running game killed me. But now it is no big deal really. Yeah people have good running days against me sometimes, but not anything close to what you guys talk about. Any legit play can be defended if you gameplan correctly. I dont know how many times Ive had people pick the Rams thinking their going to run that toss crap all day over my Bears. Sure they might get a few 10-15 yard runs, but I welcome that toss crap. I can defend it and get quite a few tackled for loss. I think this is a bigger problem for the PS2 guys because you have more lag. And that makes tackling someone very difficult so I give them more leeway.


But for everyone else I know you dont want to hear it ,but PLAY SOME DAMN DEFENSE. PERIOD!!!

I will play anyone to show them it can be stopped. If you crush me you crush me , but I doubt that. And If I lose I can handle it and I wont blame it on the super backs or lack of tackling. I have yet to lose a game where the flaws were the reason and not my own mistakes.

[Steelaz1966]

GT: SteelerDell

Bears34, if you really think that this game doesn't have flaws I don't know who you are playing. People complain because they want the developers to see it and make a better game the next time. I see that you play on All Pro. I play on Legend because I'm in a league that plays on Legend. Regardless, the game needs work. For the XBOX they could make a patch to fix this years game but they probably won't.

The NFL is not a pure guessing game. If Eddie George, Ricky Williams, Jamal Lewis and whoever else you want to name gets hit by Farrior, who slows him down to almost a stand still, and then gets hit by Kendrell Bell, who's running at full speed, the rb will go down 99.999% if the time.

Burris, Ward and Randel El don't drop a lot of passes because they are hit in the back in real life. In this game, against the Dolphins and Raiders they drop 90% if they get hit. And that's if they get off of the jam in time for the qb to throw the ball.

I'm on the east cost so I'm on around 10:00 p.m. on weekdays.

[Viking84]

Also, I did not mention the divergences. This game has features that you cannot even use. Custom Playbooks anyone? Or maybe defensive matchups.

I love seeing my 4th best corner covering Randy Moss when I have Champ Bailey covering some nobody.

Although, I must admit they have improved the passing game over last years pop warner version. The recievers can hold the ball when tackled this year. But why throw when you can run for 300 yds I ask?

I believe that was one of the samw flaws last year also. SEGA GET ON THE BALL! (no pun intended) I am sick of all the graphical betterments and added frills. The game is what countss. It is not ralistic.

Ok all Sega fans say it is more realistic than Madden (I know I went blue in the face trying to convince myself and others it was). But it just isn't so. Sure Madden has some flaws. Show me a football game or for that matter any sports game that doesn't. There's virtually no way to get it all right. At least not yet. But Sega is still lagging behind. I sometimes think they want us to argue this point. Yes that's silly but it does seem like it because they seem to make many of the same flaws over and over. (remember how many years it took to get the numbers on the uniform right?).

This is an argument that has no ending. It was like last year. Sacks were darn near impossible to get. You had to use stupid formations to even get a halfway real amount (and it never was real even this way). Now it is a bit easier. But the fun y thing is last season you had guys arguing like dogs making excuses for SEGA. Apparemtly it was so overwhelmingly bad even SEga noticed. Now these same people are arguing other OBVIOUS mistakes. Why? Why not tell Sega so they can fix it? I want a better game to go with the killer graphics and concept. I mean the ESPN presentation is unbeatable.

These are not unrealistic or outrageous demands. If EA can do it, so can SEGA. Visual Concepts seems to not think there's a major problem with their product. Tiburon did. They admitted it and corrected it. Then when another is noticed they go in and fix it. And like I said there is no perfect sports game. Something will always be wrong. But it does not have to be dozens every year.

[Bears34]

I totally agree there is flaws, and the running game flaws are obvious, but it just doesnt ruin the game for me as much as it seems to upset other people. 99% of the games I play online are very realstic in stats and gameplay. The Dolphins and Raiders had great defenses last year . So I agree that their coverage ratings should be higher and thats why guys drop the ball when they get hit. Where as a team with a garbage secondary doenst jar the ball loose as much. I think thats how it should be. There has to be a difference between the good and bad teams. I think if there wanst so many raiders ,dolphins ,rams ,eagles, patriot, fans all of the sudden the game would be better. But too many players are too weak to come with average teams and the only way they can compete is by bringing powerhouses. The game will NEVER be realistic unless people play it realistically no matter what they do to patch things.

TO ALL GAMERS: Be a man and come with your favorite team no matter who they are. You know you dont like the Dolphins.

[Steelaz1966]

They could put performance EQ on in online ranked games. That way, each overall team would be equal. Then, the skill of the person with the controller would decide the game. And I don't care what their pass coverage rating is, my receivers should not drop that many passes by getting hit in the back. They can already jam you for forever. If I call the right play, use motion to get free, make the right read, throw the ball to the open man and it hits him in the hands, he should catch it. He's not getting hit in the face, he's getting hit in the back.

[Bears34]

You say that Madden and ESPN both have flaws . So how do you still say Madden is more realistic. I read the EA Madden board and there flaws seem way worse in comparison to ESPN. ESPN has a easy running game. Madden has superhuman defense. Which is worse I dont know. So that leaves graphics to judge on. And to me unless you are leagally blind it isnt even a comparison. its like comparing the looks of a Porsche to a yugo. The madden players look like midgets with big heads whos torsos are 2 times longer than there legs. I think if you take a look at everything ESPN is by far a better game. Its by no means perfect, but it gets better every year. I can only imagine how great next years will be.

[Steelaz1966]

ESPN is the best that's out now. EA leaves the same flaws in year after year. This year they created some new ones. Double coverage on a deep pass is a joke in Madden. Your saftey acts like he is trying to win a race to the goal line. The ball just drops in behind him and you hope that he makes the tackle. If you try to control him, you are moved so far out of the play that it's an automatic touchdown. Have you tried playing against the Eagles in Madden. A whole lot of your passes will be thrown to the db's instead of the receiver. And lots more. But if you like Madden, it's your money and your opinion. As long as you enjoy the game. ESPN will get better every year because they try to fix things. If ESPN does well, maybe EA will start to fix the problems with their game.

[Viking84]

You say that Madden and ESPN both have flaws . So how do you still say Madden is more realistic. I read the EA Madden board and there flaws seem way worse in comparison to ESPN. ESPN has a easy running game. Madden has superhuman defense. Which is worse I dont know. So that leaves graphics to judge on. And to me unless you are leagally blind it isnt even a comparison. its like comparing the looks of a Porsche to a yugo. The madden players look like midgets with big heads whos torsos are 2 times longer than there legs. I think if you take a look at everything ESPN is by far a better game. Its by no means perfect, but it gets better every year. I can only imagine how great next years will be.

I thought I explained it. ESPN's flaws are more than Madden's. I am a Sega fan and I can see the difference. I have Madden also because I love the franchise mode which blows SEga;s away. But infortunetly the game is also better IMO.

I am just being honest. And if beeing honest makes me seem not a good fan then so be it. I am a Viking fan but I would be the first to admit up until 2 weeks ago I still was not a true believer of how good they are. I am now convinced thery are for real. But that did not make me a bad fan...Just honest.

I am not sure where you say the flaws in Madden's are worse. Yes there are flaws. I have said so. But to me they are nowhere near as bad as Sega's game.

True the running game is not as good. but it is good enough and I do well when I follow the block. Part of this problem is the gameplay is faster in Madden and the players are smaller (which I hate) so it is a bit tougher. Sega has the players at a good size (This is what I mean when they so have things going good for them) and it makes it easier to control. Now if you have a big screen TV that can handle video games then Madden is fine. But some of us have smaller sets like a 27" screeen.

Again this is a never ending argument and really it should be up to the individual. I am not trying to push my belief on someone else and if Sega works for you that's great. I may be just expecting too much since I was one of those who did my best to convert Madden players to the 2K series a few years ago!

[Bears34]

I totally understand and agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just needed to say something to a viking fan because I live in Minneapolis now and Im going to shoot myself if I hear that the Vikes are going to the superbowl one more time. J/k . The vikes got a good squad this year.

[CanadianClub]

here's what i think:

ESPN 85/100

Madden 80/100

so there

[Viking84]

I totally understand and agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I just needed to say something to a viking fan because I live in Minneapolis now and Im going to shoot myself if I hear that the Vikes are going to the superbowl one more time. J/k . The vikes got a good squad this year.

I can definetly understand that! LOL...I personally would have to see a lot more to be convinced they can go to the superbowl. That takes more than strictly talent. While i feel they have talent I am not convinced the depth is there...though they are proving me wrong at that also. I will wait till the playoffs and see if we may it to let my mind come around to that thinking. Either way though they are a better team than I thought they were going to be..

[jabronidan89]

OK INSTEAD OF COMPLAINING THIS GAME SUCKS, find a solution. i have a one that does make this game more realistic. but first my 2 cents. yes this game is flawed, yes break away speed is really bad, yes returning is easy if u know what u are doing but its not like EVERY game online is 70-63. i have had my fair share of shoot outs but for the last 4 games, even witht he people who i had shoot outs with, its becoming a pretty realistic game. 38-25, 14-3, 17-14. i like this game better than 2k3 and than this year's version of madden. that is my opinion so dont start posting that i think this game is perfect because it is not. NOTHING in this world is perfect. but why not talk about good things about this game instead of all the bad things.
now me and my friend have been having tournaments and playing sega football games for the past 3 years. this year both of us just ran for 400 yards against each other every game. so we started experimenting with sliders and we found 1 setting that limits break away speed and all the break tackles. first start on all pro and move human pursuit and tackling 10 ticks to the right. and then enjoy your game. this will improve tacking and will make this game a challenge and realistic online. if it doesnt work for you, experiment with sliders than.

[saviour]

OK. I am and have always been a Sega fan and especially a fan of the 2k Football series, but I am upset with the flaws in this game becuase they are OBVIOUS ones. These flaws should have been caught by the QA/Beta testing teams in my opinion.

Sega did a good job in fixing most of the cheating tatics from last years version, even though people can use the pause timer against you now to give you the loss which is a big slap in the face. But lets be honest here people, there are exceptable flaws in every game we have ever played. I do not believe these are exceptable nor do everyone else who has complained about it becuase it obviously detracts from the overall product.

And also, I only play with the Redskins as I am a die hard fan. I live and die with my Skins and I love football and football strategies. This game has not impressed me with the ease of moving the ball. I got tired of playing 50 - 45 games with madden online on my PS2 so I was in love with last years game with all the defense and gameplaning involved. But when obvious flaws are in the game there are players who will use them to thier advantage all the time.

You know how many times I tried to stop someone in the 4th qtr in this game with the lead and have thier running back gain 7 to 8 yds against whatever defense I called becuase of broken tackles. C'mon, Lavar Arringtion is not going to be plowed over by any running back including Ricky Williams. And that goes for any great defensive player. I used Trung Candidate to salt a game away and I consistently barrelled over those great Pittsburg linebackers even when they where in position. Defensive players do not deliver hits in this game, they absorb them. If Warren Sapp actually played this game instead of just endorsing it and saw how man times he gets out played, blocked 4 yds back before reacts to a run he would have a stroke.

[Viking84]

My feelings exactly saviour. I too am a SEga fan. I still like Madden because of the franchise but I switched to Sewga permanently as far as what game I would buy first and give the most attention to 3 years ago. Only 2001 was I more impressed with Sega. You can call me what you will but I am sorry Madden IMO is the one I enjoy more now. That is because the flaws in ESPN are as saviour said OBVOIUS! They shouldn't have got past the test stage ..unless monkeys were the ones testing them! You can say Madden sucks and call me a traitor but it does not change the truth as I see it, or millions of others. Yes Madden and EA advertise more and better...but somewhere along the line this can;t be used as the reason Sega is lagging behind. There's a reason why NFL players all play Madden...There's a reason Madden is mentioned everywhere and ESPN 2K4 isn't even known. It's not just advertising. It's because the game is the better one to the mass public. Something is doing this and it's not just talk...NOT AFTER 13 YEARS!

[Steelaz1966]

The thing is that Madden was the best for years. This is only the 5th year for the 2k series. People are used to Madden. When 2k hit with the Dreamcast, a lot of people wouldn't play because they didn't like the DC controller. At that time 2k was the best football game out. Madden 2000 came along a little later and it was a serious joke. It looked better than the previous versions but the gameplay was terrible. Madden still outsold everyone else. 2K1 was the best football game out, Madden still outsold it. 2K2 and 2K3, I wasn't impressed with. Madden outsells everyone else and NFL players play it because of reputation. A lot of people won't really try another game. If they play ESPN, they try to play it like Madden and when that doesn't work, they say that the game sucks.

It's all about what flaws you can live with. IMO, ESPN's flaws are easier to live with. To stop some plays, you may have to be unrealistically perfect but, it is possible. Madden's flaws, you can't do anything about.

ESPN will be better next year because they try to fix what people complain about. Madden sells regardless so, maybe they will fix their flaws maybe not. They haven't fixed anything the last three years.

[Revengel]

Sounds like Saviour needs my 'Skins D FAQ'.

[jlsanderson]

The first post is dead on. The running game is way to potent. I know about all the other posts on how to play a great D. Shifts and power ups, square your shoulders and the like, but on-line, the running attacks of some teams is ridiculous. TOO much work goes into trying to kill the run from gaining 200+ yards that you leave your D open to the pass attack. No team in the NFL is this over-matched, or it is very rare. Look at the Dolphins game against the Giants this past weekend. Ricky was shut down. Yes the Giants were playing the run but not to the degree of Goal line D or Bear D and sell out the pass. I watched that game and Ricky only broke ONE tackle. Look it's obvious it needs to be tweaked. I wish we can convince Sega to set the On-line sliders to contain the running game to be more competitive. Look I love playing SEGA and I usually take the Steelers while On-line. Although I love when Bettis rumbles for an 80 yard-er, it gets old after the 20th time. I want a tough Run D. If we can get Sega to set the sliders when playing an On-line game, it would be close to perfection, but as it stands now it is lopsided toward the RUN. Why do you think most newbies are continually taking the Dolphins.On most posts and even some League play that are forbidding people to choose the dolphins. The power backs are way to good. Not disputable. Lets just get Sega to tweak the sliders On-line. They should be able to do something, shouldn't they? At-least lets get a response from SEGA.

[Steelaz1966]

Forget the Giants/Dolphins game, go back to the Texans/Dolphins game. If Ricky could run like he does on this video game, the Texans would have been blown out. Ricky isn't the only thing that gives the Dolphins an advantage. Their defense is rediculous.

[CanadianClub]

i would like to fix how bad i am at this game

my gameplay is deeply flawed in many areas, including online

thank you

[Bears34]

CC---You have to adjust your sliders. Spread out your fingers and shift your arms to the correct position.

[Azn_Essence]

I also hate when the defense just falls if he touches the guy who is tackling.
ex. running back is getting dragged down, but when you go near, you just fall sometimes, without helping with the gang tackle.

[Viking84]

I already said that BS about the time each has been around is hogwash! Sega has had more than enough time to develop a better game and advertising..

I get tired of making excuses. Doesn't anyone else? If you like ESPN and can live with the flaws...so be it! But I can't. Sega is lagging waaaaay behind IMO..

[saviour]

Viking, you hit the nail in the head. I played about 200 games of Madden online last year and yes there are flaws as well but the ones in the Sega game are just ridiculous.

Sega has the best ideas of how a football game should look but it does not play as well. Gang tackling would be great if it actually worked. Defensive players flop on EVERY PLAY. One guy tackles a runner and his teammates either watch in slow motion or when they attempt to tackle the fall on the floor. I noticed these mistakes within a week of owning the game so how could Sega and Visual Concepts miss any of them in the last 12 months I ask.

People, I am not saying I hate this game but I am extremely frustrated with this nonsense year after year. These are mistakes I could fix if given the opportunity so professional software developers should be able to fix them with in days. Thats why I complain. I am still holding out hope that Sega may actually address them. I would leave my job to work as manager of QA at Visual Concepts just if I thought it would help them put out a better product.

[saviour]

Here a some of the flaws that have been driving me nuts with this years version of the game. Chime in if you agree.

1. Running way too strong. C'mon running backs average 200 yds per game in this game

2. Missed tackes on every play. You cannot get a clean tackle on a top running back

3. O-Lineman that never block blitzing D-linemen. How many times have you been sacked and watched the replay and your O-line never touched the D-lineman. The guy would be out of the league in real life if that happened

4. Reciever animations caused dropped passes. I hate seeing recievers reach for a ball and have it hit them in the head because the animation is not syncronized properly.

5. Defenders magically fall down in pile ups. Sega built in gang tackles but when someone is in a pile, defenders will fall down without being touched. And when tackled, you cant initiate a gang tackle becuase the game automatticly slows your player down even though the offensive palyer is pushing your guy dow the field for 6 yds. Amazing..

6. Defensive AI. The game plays at half speed when you are not controlling the player. This allows you to take control of the offensive player and blow past the defender.

Here another flaw I did not mention that I am sure everybody has seen.

Bump and Run coverage by corners that if they miss the bump and the QB rolls to their side the corner suddenly starts blitzing leaving his guy wide open?!?!

Or the lack of tackling when running next to the sideline.

[Viking84]

Believe me...I noticed. I too think the same way. It looks great but it's not a realistic sim. If the entire NFL Playing community (ok there might be Warren Sapp aside) prefers Madden over any other..then it may be that Madden is the better sim.

You and I will be told to **** off and go play Madden simply because we are trying to tell it like it is and get Sega to make a better game. But I don't care. I am not going to lie and say Sega's product is better just because I bought it....That was my fault for assuming Sega had it together this year...Once again I am wrong on that and out 50 bucks!!

[Steelaz1966]

2k and 2k1 were the best football games of their time and Madden still outsold them. How do you explain that? PC's with Windows outsell MACs but most experts agree that the MACs are superior. Both games need work. At least VC tries to fix what is complained about. It comes down to which flaws you can live with. ESPN is more SIM is one person's opinion. Madden is more SIM is anothers. My opinion is that you have more control over the game in ESPN. I've played every Madden since the Genesis. EA puts a little extra stuff in every year but don't fix the flaws. Instead of fixing the defensive back AI, they put in super human animations for some situations so that interceptions would increase. But on a lot of plays, when the ball should be intercepted or at least knocked down, the dbs act like they don't know that a game is going on. DBs sprinting to the goal line while the ball drops in behind them, jumping up for an interception and the ball goes to the, right or left, straight to the receiver, lbs runnig to cut off a pass and make a play on the ball, suddenly change directions, to get behind the receiver so the receiver can catch the ball, dbs ducking so that the receiver can catch the ball, tacklers stopping because the ball carrier changes direction instead of hitting the ball carrier, great run on sentence, etc. If you play against the Eagles in Madden, I play with the Steelers, your qb tends to throw the ball to the dbs instead of the receivers.

If you prefer Madden, so be it. Enjoy it. That's what games are all about. I can deal with the frustration in ESPN a whole lot better than the frustration in Madden.

[Viking84]

Good post. But i disagree. We are talking about a 50 dollar video game...Not a 2,000 dollar machine. PC's are much more affordable. I agree though with your synopsis that to each their own. Yes I can deal with Madden's a lot better than ESPN...But the reason is because I don't really care if Madden is better. I want ESPN to be the no.1 game. If I felt that way about Madden I might look at it different.

As for 2K and 2K1 not outselling the EA franchise that's because it was still new. That argument can't be used any longer. 5 years is more than enough time to get your act together. According to what your saying is the general buying public prefers an inferior game....HMMMM something about that just does not sound right.

The thing here is some people seem to think if you say something derrogatory about Sega's game you are not a fan of it. That's so ridiculous. How is anything suppose to be made better if all you do is rah rah rah the game? I am pointing out a few flaws. I also never said the game was bad. In fact it's quite good. I still enjoy it a lot. I just get frustrated with the obvious mistakes that should have been caught before it was ever released!

[Revengel]

Good post. But i disagree. We are talking about a 50 dollar video game...Not a 2,000 dollar machine. PC's are much more affordable. I agree though with your synopsis that to each their own. Yes I can deal with Madden's a lot better than ESPN...But the reason is because I don't really care if Madden is better. I want ESPN to be the no.1 game. If I felt that way about Madden I might look at it different.

As for 2K and 2K1 not outselling the EA franchise that's because it was still new. That argument can't be used any longer. 5 years is more than enough time to get your act together. According to what your saying is the general buying public prefers an inferior game....HMMMM something about that just does not sound right.

The thing here is some people seem to think if you say something derrogatory about Sega's game you are not a fan of it. That's so ridiculous. How is anything suppose to be made better if all you do is rah rah rah the game? I am pointing out a few flaws. I also never said the game was bad. In fact it's quite good. I still enjoy it a lot. I just get frustrated with the obvious mistakes that should have been caught before it was ever released!

The public doesn't perfer an inferior game...it perfers a better marketed one. Here's a checklist:

Sony went exclusive with Beta. Stupid, Stupid rat creatures. VHS could say "our tapes play everywhere" and bingo...try and find a Beta.

Star Wars Episode I.
Star Wars Episode II.

See what I mean?


Sega's marketing has been Poo Doo. If you were to rebadge the two games and switch companies...the Madden label one would still be the top seller.

[TheWeapon]

Personally, I LOVE the fact that if you hit a receiver from behind he drops the ball. You get rewarded for making a great defensive play. I enjoy the fact that if I time my dive right and hit the receiver just as he catches the ball, he'll drop the pass. If you don't want that to happen to your receivers, throw to a more open man. On curl routes, if you throw the ball JUST as your WO is making the curl and NOT after he is already halfway turned around, the ball will arrive quickly enough that usually the defender won't have time to switch to his cover-man and be in position to dive and make you drop the ball.

When else could the programmer's code the WO's to drop a pass legitimately??? If the WO caught most/all the passes thrown their way when the defender hit them at the right time, everyone would gripe about the passing game being to easy, too. And don't reply back with, "A WO should not drop the ball when hit from behind." Most of the time, not all, when a WO catches a pass, the catches it and almost immediately moves it into position under his armpit, next to his torso so he can get ready to run with the ball. When you dive from behind, it makes sense that the defender will be reaching for that same spot (e.g. diving forward with his hands extended to make contact with the WO just above his waist and in between his arms/torso) and be able to knock the ball out.

My .02,

TheWeapon

[GreyHoundSteve]

i agree with weapon. If anything passing is too easy. My wr's drop more bullets than they do from a hit result. Try to play TO, Moulds, Ward or Harrison. They are impossible to cover and never drop balls.

[saviour]

I hate to say that you guys are missing the point but you are. I happen to think the passing game is one of the few things that was fixed over last years version of the game. This years version is closer to NFL football than last years pop warner version. Recievers catch the ball in traffic and they drop the ball when hit at the right time.

Since that was fixed, why strengthen the running game? Last years running game was perfect. I had no complaints about last years running game becuase is had the perfect balance depending on the type of runner you had power or speed. You had to work to get a 10 yd gain and you did not break as many tackles... even with the top backs. If you knew what you were doing you could rip off a big run.

Trust me, I do not think Madden is better than this game becuase of the DB AI. It is horrible. This one is not perfect but it is light years ahead of madden's and it is better than last years version which constantly had DB's attempting int's when they were not in position. One thing that Madden has going for it however is that when you hit turbo on offense, that informs the defensive AI to turn it up a notch, not in this game. If you want to beat someone to the corner you can.

I did not buy Madden this year becuase I thought that Sega would have the supieror product this season becuase the problems in last years versoin seemed easy to solve. But the blew it by creating new ones. Case in point.. They fixed the non realistic dropped passes by wide open recievers only to add non realistic tackling by defensive players.

I am a hardcore Sega fan who still owns his Sega Master System, Geneis, Sega CD, Game Gear, and Saturn with multiple games for each. The reason I am upset is becuase I spent many years defending Sega telling everyone that they make the best games (which they do) and then they release products that leave alot to be desired. The flaws in this game are inexecusable in this day and age with all the money invested in video games today. This is not 1985 anymore when this was just a passing fad for children, this is a 4 billion dollar a year business. Sega was forced out of the hardware business becuase they failed to realize obvious trends and they are going down that same road with thier sports games. They are a clear No#2 but they should be #1 buy a large margin.

[Viking84]

Saviour you are again correct. The point is being missed...That's why this thread is no longer one in which i am giving any more time too. You canb't talk sense top a brick wall! So I ooficially give up trying to point out what it is that Sega lovers are definetly missing. I am going to become as closed minded as the next guy......Sega Rules and is the Best..even with the flaws! Yahoooooooooooooooo!

[MarkII]

Its funny but depending on who you talk to, someone will argue for either side like their live depended on it. What many people consider flaws, orthers considers strengths and we call each other unskilled and weak because of it. I have found that everthing can be countered in Madden and ESPN there always was a way. Its just that in Madden things can still be stopped by using Punt Block and Prevent in unrealistic situations and still have success. In Madden, people still will run a whole game out of goaline and the Defense will not adjust. It doesn't matter about the play call the computer should adjust to the same play being run over and over again.
Thats Madden is still #1, I can still do basically the same things I was doing since Madden 92 with the buffalo bills. Same runs, deep passes, and pass rush.
In Espn, I feel that if I don't gameplan based on the stengths of my team I will pay for it. On Madden I can do the same things with every team, with the exceptin of the scrambling QB. I still play both one is just fun the other gets on my nerves casue I feel I can be out coached.

[Viking84]

What Madden are you playing?...The damn cpu in 2004 adjusts to everything. Go ahead and try goalline against the cpu on All Prp or All Madden for an entire game...Unless your playing 1 minute qtrs there's no way your going to win...This years version is way more realistic than ESPN....

[saviour]

Hey, no matter how much I complain about this game I still believe that it is better than Madden. Wit Madden I was 50 games above 500 last year online on my PS2 and I only used 5 plays total. I just flipped them so they could be run to the strong side of the field.

There is alot more gameplanning in this game (ESPN) especially amongst sim players. But the fact remains that with the flaws in this game you are always going to be at a disadvantage. You can call the perfect defensive play against what your opposition is running, the ball is snapped your guys are in position and your tackling will let you down, or the pursuit is non existant or your guys play at half speed. Frustrating to say the least.

It reminds me of when I used to play Streetfighter in the arcades and you have to play against those button mashers. You can use your skill to block the majority of thier garbage, but you were always one hit away from being dizzied, combo'd, dizzied, combo'd, loss.

If Visual Concepts concetrated on the execuation of all the features they put in the game this game could not be touched. But, it appears they get the feature working and move on to adding another without thoroughly testing each aspect of it.

[Viking84]

That's my point...I love it also...But it is not as realistic as Madden because of those things you mentioned and the others we have gone over. Oh well 2005 will be here in a year....A YEAR? WAAAWAAAWAA!

[hotadeff]

It is funny how vicking gives a double standard between the two games. I am not saying he like madden better than espn but you cant tell be his arguments. If you hold on game to an higher standard than another. And that game has some flaws but it is still a good game. And you hold the other game to lower standard which it reaches. which is truly the better game?

Any way i feel like this about the two games DB play in espn is alright. But way better than maddens. lb play is very good to imo they are usually attacking or covering the right person. They dont tackle to good. Madden lb are good imo. d line play is great in espn the moves can get you to that qb now. the only problem is when doing a move it hard to tackle coming out of the move if the player is shooting through the gap you are swim moving to. madden d line could be better if the moves could get you to the qb they would be great. But the moves dont get you there so the are only alright imo. The do a good job at chasing some one down etc but not rushing the qb.

The offensive line men are great in espn they block good and if you play on the higher difficulty level they chop block and do every thing including holding from time to time to protect there qb. Madden o line is great too.
Same with te for both games. Now the trick come to the play of the wr rb and qb. To me the qb play is top notch in espn some qb are great under pressure the run out the pocket or the take the hit while delivering a bullet and so on so forth. Some get happy feet and make bad decision. now madden does a good job here as well i like how some qb even side arm the pass. but they are still below par in showing the differences of the qb. Espn has them there most likely because the have so many rating to make people perform differently. wr play is spot on in espn this year a great improvement over last years game. And better than madden because in espn i do fear shooting the ball in to triple coverage. I regret saying in madden i do not fear db coverage and feel i feel my wr is some type of dna experement that crossed randy moss,terrel owen,and marvin harris genes to make my staring reciever.

The running of the back is touchy here but espn is better i feel like i have more control all though less than last year do to momentum but it feels just right. In madden the cuts and turns are to slow do to momentum. This are super athletes in the nfl they can stop and go stop and go. have ea ever seen there cover boy play. now the tackle breaking is a little to easy on espn. I dont no if the breack tackle that is the culprit or the lack of tackle on the d but it needs a liittle balancing. This is a problem to me but last year i average a 115 yards a game. My friend complain it was to hard for him to gain 50 yards a game. I had to record my games so he would believe that i average that many yards. Now i remember other complaining about that last year. So to segas or shall i say vc defence they may have listened and changed it. You see my friend now averages a little over 100 yards a game and i have to shoot more to keep from averaging 200+.

People compained about break away speed the gave to us not people say it is to much. but the truth is that is the main reason we have sliders so the get most people what they want. us guys who played the series to death the put those there for us. The made the game easier for the new people they are trying to still away from madden. You can get people to convert from madden with this game but last year game was to frustrating for most madden fans to get into.

I think the game is great with slider changes with tackling and pursuit

[saviour]

You know what, I could probably live with all of the flaws if the tackling was realistic. I played a guy who was using the Raiders and all he did was run Flush formations so that he can spread my defensive palyers out. While I would contain him on every play he would break the first tackle on every play.

I use the Redskins and one of his receivers blocked Lavar Arrington to the floor on a run in one shot. Now this just will not happen as receivers are typically bad blockers and they definatley will not be blocking 250 pound linebackers straight up. Maybe with a cut block, or a chop but not straight up. Now come on that is just ridiculous. This guy picked the same 4 plays the entire game and was able to break enough tackles to move the ball down the field. And whats worse is that you could tell he did not know football strategy but he did know how to run those sweeps in hopes that he could bust that big run. It was just insulting becuase I just whooped his *** the game prior when he tried the same garbage, but he started breaking those tackles in the second game and I was left streetfighter feeling once again. (Dizzy, combo, dizzy, combo, loss)

But in any case, this topic can go on and on but if you do not believe that this game does not have some serious football reality issues than so be it.

Viking, I am joining the bandwagon as well. I cannot wait until tommorows football games when every running back rushes for 200 yds. Defense does not matter anymore as it is all about one handed catches, broken tackles and ru/pass plays over 50 yds every other down.

Welcome to the new NFL.

[Viking84]

[quote="hotadeff"]It is funny how vicking gives a double standard between the two games. I am not saying he like madden better than espn but you cant tell be his arguments. If you hold on game to an higher standard than another. And that game has some flaws but it is still a good game. And you hold the other game to lower standard which it reaches. which is truly the better game?

I don't understand what your saying. But what I am saying is basically....ESPN has things going for it. I want it to be a better game because of these things. But I just don't feel in my heart it is. I can not lie and say because I want this game to be better that is is better! It's not IMO. Can it be? Sure. But Sega needs to fix things and do it next season or give us a patch. Some of the problems have been there for a long time....

[Xboxing2006]

I think ESPN is more realisitc but not by much.

Just a few point to why

-Madden has better hard hits

-ESPN has a more realistic pass rush
Fever has the best run animtation, towels, and the changing of directions is best.

-I think Fever is still trailing Fever and Madden but both Madden and ESPN could learn from a few things Fever does better.

-Madden has a weak passing game. A 20 yard pass is just as easy to complete as a 5 yard pass

-Madden has a better play selection

-ESPN has better formations

-Maddens running game is the most realistic

-ESPNs running game is the most fun

-Fevers running game is the smoothest but like Madden lacks tackle animations.

-ESPN has the best graphics

-Fever has great graphics but some of the players are not proportionate

-Maddens graphics suck

-Madden and ESPN has lousy pursuit to the ball

-Madden DBs rely on luck, its pure feast or famine

-Fever DBs are like Maddens but a little better

-ESPN has good pass D but part of the reason for this is the game lacks max pro plays (that I have seen) and recivers still arent catching as well as they should.

-Fevers pass rush is feast or famine

I have played at least 20 hours of the three games and to me ESPN is more realistic, more fun and better thjen last years but not by much. All three games do somthing better then the others. Unlike Baseball, Basketball, and Hockey Sega is not the clear victor but unlike last year I say Sega is better then EA in football but it is not all that clear and I cant give the strong argument I give in other sports.

[hotadeff]

like i said before most of the things like tackle and pursuit can be fixed through sliders. Everyone has strengths and weak parts to there game. Many of the changes made the run easier but like i said i have many many friends who could not get more than 60-70 yards rushing a game on the default settings in 2k3. These people average 100 -115 yards a game in 2k4 on default. I average about 250 on default. i went up to all pro and now i average 120 a game some time less some time more but average in can get ove 100 yards. but my friends can not average more than 70 on allpro.

so with sliders than can go to allpro and adjust there blocking and things to get about 100 a game. I really believe the problem is vc tried to make the game good for the masses and left us diehards with sliders to adjust since we are the vets. Now we know what the game is about so we should adjust sliders but vc and sega cant make money if the settings are set for us vets because most people would say it was to hard and frustrating like last year. So there fan base would never grow.

as for the tackling and superbacks that problem is one and the same i like to play allpro and increase pursuit and tackle. i increase pursuit about 12 to the right and tackle also.

Last year you could adjust slider if the game was not ranked. If that is the same this year most of us could have a better online experience if we just played nonranked game and changed the sliders i mentioned above and to bring down the running back a couple of notches. and the game would be fun and real. Now we cant stop cheese but we can correct those things

[nfl2kxdevelopment]

Boycott SEGA/VC it is obvious they add these glitches every year.

What are they going to add next year?


I'm not buying anymore SEGA/VC games. They always ruin their own games.