DO YALL HAVE A CLUE WHAT FOOTBALL IS?

[lawston52]

IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT WANT BETTER GAMEPLAY? OR IS EVERYONE LOOKING FORWARD TO PRESENTATION, STADIUMS, CHEERLEADERS, AND F-ING SIDELINE ATTRACTIONS? AND IF SO, WHY DO MOST POST/REPLIES TALK CONTINUOUSLY ON THOSE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY REAL FOOTBALL LOVERS (11 ON 11, SIDELINE TO SIDELINE, END ZONE TO END ZONE) OUT THERE. GOT D@MN, LETS GET A BETTER FOOTBALL GAME 1ST AND MAYBE THEN WILL WE B!TC# AND MOAN ABOUT THE OTHER S#!T.

GET AT ME.
-LAWSTON

[NFL2K]

So in other words... you want an improved version of Madden, which would still fall short of 2K football?

No thanks.


P.S. Hit CAPS LOCK

[Millertime1979]

IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT WANT BETTER GAMEPLAY? OR IS EVERYONE LOOKING FORWARD TO PRESENTATION, STADIUMS, CHEERLEADERS, AND F-ING SIDELINE ATTRACTIONS? AND IF SO, WHY DO MOST POST/REPLIES TALK CONTINUOUSLY ON THOSE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY REAL FOOTBALL LOVERS (11 ON 11, SIDELINE TO SIDELINE, END ZONE TO END ZONE) OUT THERE. GOT D@MN, LETS GET A BETTER FOOTBALL GAME 1ST AND MAYBE THEN WILL WE B!TC# AND MOAN ABOUT THE OTHER S#!T.

GET AT ME.
-LAWSTON
sounds like you want 10 yard fight for the nes

[lawston52]

NO BUDDY, IF I WANTED MADDEN... I WOULDN'T BE ON A 2K SITE. OBVIOUSLY, I'M A 2K FAN. BUT IT IS VERY APPARENT THAT MOST POSTS ARE ABOUT THINGS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL.

OH AND BY THE WAY, HAVE YOU PLAYED MADDEN LATELY, THAT'S WHAT WE CALL TRASH! AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU... ALL OF EA GAMES ARE TRASH, NOT JUST MADDEN, LIVE OR FIGHT NIGHT. THEY ALL ARE MADE FOR PEOPLE WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE SPORT OR GENRE OF THE FIELD THEIR TRYING TO "VIDEOGAMEALIZE"

ONE.

[FakedShinobi`]

sounds good to me.. people making all these stupid ideas about customizations... we can get the best customization ever.. but that wont be enough if we have crappy gameplay.. focus on gameplay first then do what ever next..

[NFL2K]

Expecting 2K to focus on gameplay is like expecting George Bush to make a dumb decision... you don't have to ask for it because you already know it's going to happen.

[Prince_RIP4eVa]

what is this "football" you speak of

[lawston52]

TO FAKESHINOBI (SP) - I LIKE THAT REP OF PAPOOSE.
TO MR. 2K AND THAT OTHER BOI THAT MENTIONED 10 YRD FIGHT. - DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL, LIKE GAP CONTROL? EAT/TAG BLOCKS, DO YOU KNOW TEAMS IN REAL LIFE CAN STOP THE RUN WITH 7 PEOPLE IN THE BOX (DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE BOX IS). DO YOU KNOW WHAT ZONE DOGS ARE? DO YOU KNOW MOST IMPORTANTLY, FOOTBALL IS A GAME OF NUMBERS. AND THAT'S ALL. I DON'T WANT TO SEE A DIVE TO THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF AN OVERLOADED SIDE AND STILL HAVE MY FB MISS BLOCKS CAUSING 1,2,3 YRD GAINS. OR HAVING MY WR MISS BLOCKS ON CB THAT SUPPOSE TO "BACK PEDDLE" ON THE SNAP (EXCEPT IN SOME FORMS OR COVER 2). BUT YOU PROBABLY WON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL... YALL ARE LOOKING AT CHEERLEADERS AND S#!T, SO STAY ON THE SIDELINE, DON'T GET IN THE GAME.

[NFL2K]

Lawton, you really need to calm yourself down.

You look REALLY foolish right now to ask if I know anything about football. That's perhaps the dumbest question yet. If you have doubts, go click search on the football forums. You'll definitely learn something.

[NikePowered]

I don't know anything about making a football game or any other for that matter, but I think I feel what your saying Law.
With Madden I felt like why in the world do I want to see the qb and linemen come up to the line of scrimmage looking around when they could have used that memory or space on the disk to improve gameplay, graphics or AI. I too want better gameplay and graphics over cheerleaders halftime shows or postgame interviews.

[NFL2K]

This is all rhetoric.

Presentation doesn't somehow eat up so much space that they can't add all of the other things. Gameplay in 2K football has not suffered one bit because of these things. You guys are going way overboard with this.

So, if 2K makes a game that looks and presents well, it's gonna suck, right? LOL. Look, 2K has given us great presentation and great gameplay with every 2K release. The only way a person would be worried about this is if they have never played a 2K football game before and don't know what the hell to expect. Or, they suffer from some sort of mental disorder.

Guys, calm down.

[Technique83]

TO FAKESHINOBI (SP) - I LIKE THAT REP OF PAPOOSE.
TO MR. 2K AND THAT OTHER BOI THAT MENTIONED 10 YRD FIGHT. - DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL, LIKE GAP CONTROL? EAT/TAG BLOCKS, DO YOU KNOW TEAMS IN REAL LIFE CAN STOP THE RUN WITH 7 PEOPLE IN THE BOX (DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE BOX IS). DO YOU KNOW WHAT ZONE DOGS ARE? DO YOU KNOW MOST IMPORTANTLY, FOOTBALL IS A GAME OF NUMBERS. AND THAT'S ALL. I DON'T WANT TO SEE A DIVE TO THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF AN OVERLOADED SIDE AND STILL HAVE MY FB MISS BLOCKS CAUSING 1,2,3 YRD GAINS. OR HAVING MY WR MISS BLOCKS ON CB THAT SUPPOSE TO "BACK PEDDLE" ON THE SNAP (EXCEPT IN SOME FORMS OR COVER 2). BUT YOU PROBABLY WON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL... YALL ARE LOOKING AT CHEERLEADERS AND S#!T, SO STAY ON THE SIDELINE, DON'T GET IN THE GAME.

Of course we all want gameplay Law and I'm pretty sure with the next gen power 2K Sports can get the gameplay and the presentation balanced to where people are satisfied with both. The reason people jab at presentation so much is because they don't want to play in a warehouse. They want the game to be as close as possible to what's shown on actual broadcast. Improving gameplay goes without saying but you have to state what needs improvement visually to have that balance. Remember NFL Fever? Well to me, the gameplay was very plain but I still played it because it was somewhat fun. It was the third best football game behind 2k/Madden but its visuals were pretty nice as well as the online play. Im sure the people, including myself that want an increase in visuals, presentation, customization, etc., also want an increase in gameplay. Well, at least I do.

[Millertime1979]

i know alot about football, i had at one time a 440-78 record online... ive seen everything on that game... and theres only a few things that need to be changed.
db's need to be smarter....
there needs to be true hot blocking! having controls of all of your offense telling each and every one of them what to do
defensively i think its tight except for the qb run glitch... and the db freeze
on defense i like how you can tell pretty much anyone but the nose tackles what to do
halftime and drop glitching also needs to change

[lawston52]

what is this "football" you speak of


DO YALL SEE THIS POST?... THIS IS THE NON-SENSE THAT GOES ON. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN VERSION OF FOOTBALL. NOT TALKNIG ABOUT SOCCER. I'M TALKING ABOUT 11 ON 11, NOT QB AND WR'S vs DB's. 1ST OFF FOOTBALL IS PLAYED UP FRONT. THE OL AND DL WINS GAMES (PERIOD). But the typical fan, see for instance, (Peyton Manning throwing the ball to a WR, but not knowing how great his OL is), but no one mentions A NECESSITY TO IMPROVE OL BLOCKING. Or how about why can't some stretches work, when Indy's main running play is the stretch play.

But anyways, I can go on and on, and people are still going to ask questions. So for the meantime, let's just say... most people who are playing videogames don't really know too much about the sport themselves and that maybe the reason we're getting LB dropping for pass plays on direct/fast flow running plays (BUT YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THAT IN THE HELL I JUST SAID).

-ANT.

[Icon3000]

Well let me just say that,you dont really have to worry about 2k not incorporating great gameplay and great presentation into a football game,since when have they not?except maybe in 2k6 and 2k7,only because they didnt release games those 2 years!

[Millertime1979]

they should really have a mental disorder thread

[NFL2K]

Well let me just say that,you dont really have to worry about 2k not incorporating great gameplay and great presentation into a football game,since when have they not?!

Finally, someone speaks with sense!

[lawston52]

i know alot about football, i had at one time a 440-78 record online... ive seen everything on that game... and theres only a few things that need to be changed.
db's need to be smarter....
there needs to be true hot blocking! having controls of all of your offense telling each and every one of them what to do
defensively i think its tight except for the qb run glitch... and the db freeze
on defense i like how you can tell pretty much anyone but the nose tackles what to do
halftime and drop glitching also needs to change

I MEAN, THAT'S ALL FINE AND GOOD (YOUR RECORD), BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU KNOW A VIDEOGAME DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW FOOTBALL. FOR INSTANCE, WHO HAS FORCE IN COVER 2, WHO HAS FILL RESPONSIBILITIES? OR IN COVER 6 WHO HAS BOUNDARY SUPPORT, AND WHO HAS SUPPORT TO THE FIELD? DON'T TAKE TOO LONG TO ANSWER

GET BACK AT ME.

PS. ANYONE CAN LEARN HOW A VIDEOGAME PLAYS, BUT WHEN DOES KNOWLEDGE OF A SPORT COME INTO PLAYING? (ANYONE CAN PRESS A BUTTON AT THE RIGHT TIME).

[lawston52]

Well let me just say that,you dont really have to worry about 2k not incorporating great gameplay and great presentation into a football game,since when have they not?except maybe in 2k6 and 2k7,only because they didnt release games those 2 years!

ITS NO DOUBT THAT 2K WILL RELEASE ANOTHER GREAT GAME. THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE, THE OF THE TITLE TO THIS BLOG IS "DO YALL HAVE A CLUE WHAT FOOTBALL IS", NOT A GOOD VIDEOGAME. I NEVER SAID 2K DIDN'T PUT OUT THE BEST GAME. BUT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT'S FOOTBALL, NO ONE TALKS ABOUT. THEY (YALL MOSTLY POST S#!T LIKE STADIUMS AND PEOPLE STANDING AROUND ON THE SIDELINE... TO ME IF YALL ARE GOING TO COMPLAIN, COMPLAIN ABOUT HAVING YOUR RECEIVER FALL TO THE GROUND WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO CATCH A BALL. OR WHY DO WR HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE BALL MORE THAN THE DEFENDERS. OR WHY DOES THE QB HAVE A FREE PASS TO RUN MOST OF THE TIME? ASK AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THAT TO GET THE MOST REALISTIC """""FOOTBALL""""" GAME.

[NFL2K]

Lawston, you obviously haven't been here long enough, because your assessments are completely off base.

People complain about all sorts of stuff besides presentation. Hell, I just posted a list of things about physics and mechanics that needed to be fixed in 2K5. Thing is, most of this stuff is about problems in a rushed game that got released 3 calendar years ago. Many of those problems won't exist this time, so why worry about it? It's irrelevant.

[totalownership]

Hey man I think everyone wants the same things you want. We want the realistic gameplay also but I don't think 2K is going to make it so real as to make sure that you let your corners know that they have force in a cover 2 with the safeties doing the fill. They just want it to play somewhat real but fun at the same time. The game you looking for would be nice but it's going to cost more because the audiance will be smaller

[lawston52]

EVEN ON 2K GAMES, I'VE USED THE SMALLER BACKS AND IF I HELD THE "POWER-UP" BUTTON AND USED THE "SUPER TRUCK" BUTTON I COULD RUN THROUGH ANY WOULD BE TACKLER, EVEN IF IT WAS RAY LEWIS (BACK IN 2K5) WHEN HE WAS THE SH#T ON THE GAME. AND YOU'VE NEVER SEEN THAT IN REAL LIFE, NO MATTER WHO THE RUNNER IS/WAS. EVEN IN THIS PAST SEASON ('06), HE NEVER GET RAN OVER. HE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT SLOWER NOW, BUT HIS TACKLING ABILITY HAS NOT DIMINISHED. BUT VIDEOGAMERS WANT TO SEE PEOPLE GET "HIT STICKED", AND GIVE UP THE DEEP BOMB, AND QB SCRAMBLING... THAT'S NOT FOOTBALL. THAT'S VIDEOGAMING.

[lawston52]

Lawston, you obviously haven't been here long enough, because your assessments are completely off base.

People complain about all sorts of stuff besides presentation. Hell, I just posted a list of things about physics and mechanics that needed to be fixed in 2K5. Thing is, most of this stuff is about problems in a rushed game that got released 3 calendar years ago. Many of those problems won't exist this time, so why worry about it? It's irrelevant.

DUDE, I DIDN'T SAY ONLY. I SAID MOSTLY.

[totalownership]

PS: What I mean by fun is that anyone can pick it up and learn to play in a resonable amount of time. They may not be able to challenge those with some knowledge but they will be able to score and stop a few plays

[lawston52]

Hey man I think everyone wants the same things you want. We want the realistic gameplay also but I don't think 2K is going to make it so real as to make sure that you let your corners know that they have force in a cover 2 with the safeties doing the fill. They just want it to play somewhat real but fun at the same time. The game you looking for would be nice but it's going to cost more because the audiance will be smaller

GOOD SOMEONE WITH A CLUE.. I CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT MOST POST ARE GEARED TO THE THINGS THAT REALLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL.

OH BY THE WAY, THE LBS FILL IN COVER 2, BUT MAYBE IN 4 OR 6 THE SAFETIES WILL FILL. THE LBS RUN/GET OVER THE TOP IN 2. GOOD TRY THOUGH.

[Prince_RIP4eVa]

DO YALL SEE THIS POST?... THIS IS THE NON-SENSE THAT GOES ON. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE AMERICAN VERSION OF FOOTBALL. NOT TALKNIG ABOUT SOCCER. I'M TALKING ABOUT 11 ON 11, NOT QB AND WR'S vs DB's. 1ST OFF FOOTBALL IS PLAYED UP FRONT. THE OL AND DL WINS GAMES (PERIOD). But the typical fan, see for instance, (Peyton Manning throwing the ball to a WR, but not knowing how great his OL is), but no one mentions A NECESSITY TO IMPROVE OL BLOCKING. Or how about why can't some stretches work, when Indy's main running play is the stretch play.

But anyways, I can go on and on, and people are still going to ask questions. So for the meantime, let's just say... most people who are playing videogames don't really know too much about the sport themselves and that maybe the reason we're getting LB dropping for pass plays on direct/fast flow running plays (BUT YOU PROBABLY DON'T KNOW THAT IN THE HELL I JUST SAID).

-ANT.

lmao.. sarcasm much??

[NFL2K]

But what you have to understand lawston, is that people don't ask for much in gameplay because 2K always delivers there. I mean, would you call a pizza place and tell them to make your pizza with dough? Of course not, because you already know it will be.

[Millertime1979]

I MEAN, THAT'S ALL FINE AND GOOD (YOUR RECORD), BUT TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, BECAUSE YOU KNOW A VIDEOGAME DOESN'T MEAN YOU KNOW FOOTBALL. FOR INSTANCE, WHO HAS FORCE IN COVER 2, WHO HAS FILL RESPONSIBILITIES? OR IN COVER 6 WHO HAS BOUNDARY SUPPORT, AND WHO HAS SUPPORT TO THE FIELD? DON'T TAKE TOO LONG TO ANSWER

GET BACK AT ME.

PS. ANYONE CAN LEARN HOW A VIDEOGAME PLAYS, BUT WHEN DOES KNOWLEDGE OF A SPORT COME INTO PLAYING? (ANYONE CAN PRESS A BUTTON AT THE RIGHT TIME).
the line backer in cover 2 has the main responsibility .... he has to watch the WHOLE MIDDLE AREA as for run support... cover 2s weakness is over the top and the short middle

cover 6 is pretty much zone all the way in a dime formation... its a weak *** defense that would get a coordinator fired.... boundary support would be pretty much everyone..... in a cover 6 you see a alot of backpeddling as well as cbs line up way back... its a useless defense and only intended to stop the pass what a stupid question

[Millertime1979]

dude seriously needs some haldol or lorazepam to calm hiz azz down

[totalownership]

OH BY THE WAY, THE LBS FILL IN COVER 2, BUT MAYBE IN 4 OR 6 THE SAFETIES WILL FILL. THE LBS RUN/GET OVER THE TOP IN 2. GOOD TRY THOUGH.
;) Good catch there. You ARE on top of your football.

But yeah man. It's sad but everything I knew about football I had to pretty much throw out when playing these games. If you don't you'll burst a freaking vessel with some of the stuff that goes on. Just LB play alone makes me fart from anger. Well used to. Now I just have some fun , but trying to have the most real fun thats possible.

[lawston52]

But what you have to understand lawston, is that people don't ask for much in gameplay because 2K always delivers there. I mean, would you call a pizza place and tell them to make your pizza with dough? Of course not, because you already know it will be.


ALRIGHT. I HEAR YOU. AND LET ME SAY, I'M NOT HERE TO DISRESPECT YOU. I'M A GROWN MAN. YOU PROBABLY ARE TOO. BUT ON THE REAL... WHY DO YOU PLAY 2K OVER EA? (MIND YOU I PLAY 2K OVER EA TOO. B-BALL, FOOTBALL AND ANYTHING ELSE LIKE 24 vs. Superman.... those are 2k and EA TITLES respectively)?

why do you choose 2k?

[lawston52]

;) Good catch there. You ARE on top of your football.

But yeah man. It's sad but everything I knew about football I had to pretty much throw out when playing these games. If you don't you'll burst a freaking vessel with some of the stuff that goes on. Just LB play alone makes me fart from anger. Well used to. Now I just have some fun , but trying to have the most real fun thats possible.

AGREED BRUH. DAWG, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES A GAME, ME AND MY BUDDIES STOP THESE GAMES AND WATCH REPLAY.. AND ITS SAD SOMETIMES WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FIELD. I DO FEEL YA.

[Prince_RIP4eVa]

take off the caps.. dam..

[NFL2K]

Well, to be clear, I am an Adult also... have been for a long, long time now...

To answer your question, I play 2K because it presents a strategic challenge where Madden doesn't. 2K's controls are tighter and more responsive; the feel is tight, Madden's is sloppy and feels like you're skating on ice.

Madden's gameplay lacks spark, there isn't even a real tackle-breaking system; 2K has that. 2K's running game is nicer and requires more skill. 2K allows for all sorts of user customizations.

2K has better graphics, better player models, better commentary, and an overall better presentation.

There is more, but I can't think of it all right now.

[totalownership]

I'll tell you why I chose 2K over EA. The running game. Madden's run game was so bad that I just stopped playing videogame football for a long while. Till 2K came out. I still gave madden a shot over at friends house and stuff but the run was just pathetic. And anytime I can tell Tiki to go straight up the middle of the field , and this is before he was TIKI BARBER, and throw a 60 yard bomb to him to split the safties for TD ,REPEATEDLY , I knew I was playing something I didn't need to.

[lawston52]

the line backer in cover 2 has the main responsibility .... he has to watch the WHOLE MIDDLE AREA as for run support... cover 2s weakness is over the top and the short middle

cover 6 is pretty much zone all the way in a dime formation... its a weak *** defense that would get a coordinator fired.... boundary support would be pretty much everyone..... in a cover 6 you see a alot of backpeddling as well as cbs line up way back... its a useless defense and only intended to stop the pass what a stupid question


THIS GUY HAS NO CLUE WHAT COVERAGES ARE!!!

DUDE,
COVER 2, THE CORNERS HAVE SUPPORT, LB FILL.
COVER 6 (WHICH IS COVER 2 INTO THE BOUNDARY AND COVER 4 INTO THE FIELD, THUS COVER 6) AND OBVIOUS THE CORNER HAS SUPPORT TO THE BOUNDARY AND THE OLB TO THE FIELD HAS SUPPORT TO THE FIELD. )

BUT I'M NOT ON HERE TO DISCREDIT YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF FOOTBALL. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SEE MORE TALK OF GAMEPLAY IMPROVEMENTS.

[lawston52]

Well, to be clear, I am an Adult also... have been for a long, long time now...

To answer your question, I play 2K because it presents a strategic challenge where Madden doesn't. 2K's controls are tighter and more responsive; the feel is tight, Madden's is sloppy and feels like you're skating on ice.

Madden's gameplay lacks spark, there isn't even a real tackle-breaking system; 2K has that. 2K's running game is nicer and requires more skill. 2K allows for all sorts of user customizations.

2K has better graphics, better player models, better commentary, and an overall better presentation.

There is more, but I can't think of it all right now.

COOL. AND I RESPECT THAT. I TOO LIKE THE COMPLEXITY THAT 2K BRINGS TO THE TABLE. I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT EA. AND I'M SURE YOUR LIST IS PROBABLY BIGGER THAN WHAT YOU LISTED AND MINE IS TOO. BUT FOR MY SHORT VERSION OF WHY... I ALSO LIKE THE MAKE UP OF THE GAME. (DO YOU REALIZE... MOST OF EA'S "ADDITIONS" ARE ALL COMING FROM 2K. THINK ABOUT IT.. HIGHLIGHT STICK (RT ANALOG), MAXIMUM PASSING/TACKLING (C'MON), ESPN (OBVIOUS), "THEIR AUDIBLE SYSTEM", AND SO ON AND SO ON.

NOT ONLY ARE 2K INNOVATIVE, THEY DO HAVE A CLUE AND THEY GIVE US NOT ONLY CUSTOMIZATIONS, BUT THEY GIVE A MORE REALISTIC GAME WITH BUTTONS TO DO WHAT WE WANT THE PLAYERS TO DO (MOST OF THE TIME).

[Millertime1979]

sorry ron rivera

[UMhester04]

ALRIGHT. I HEAR YOU. AND LET ME SAY, I'M NOT HERE TO DISRESPECT YOU. I'M A GROWN MAN. YOU PROBABLY ARE TOO. BUT ON THE REAL... WHY DO YOU PLAY 2K OVER EA? (MIND YOU I PLAY 2K OVER EA TOO. B-BALL, FOOTBALL AND ANYTHING ELSE LIKE 24 vs. Superman.... those are 2k and EA TITLES respectively)?

why do you choose 2k?

Someone should make that as a new thread..we can learn alot from why other people like 2K and why 2K's games are better than EA's;)

[lawston52]

I'll tell you why I chose 2K over EA. The running game. Madden's run game was so bad that I just stopped playing videogame football for a long while. Till 2K came out. I still gave madden a shot over at friends house and stuff but the run was just pathetic. And anytime I can tell Tiki to go straight up the middle of the field , and this is before he was TIKI BARBER, and throw a 60 yard bomb to him to split the safties for TD ,REPEATEDLY , I knew I was playing something I didn't need to.

ITS FUNNY HOW ON ALL OF EA'S GAMES THERE IS AN AWFUL EXAGERATION FACTOR. IF YOU USE THE SPIN ON MADDEN, OR LIVE, DON'T IT TAKE YOU CLEAR ACROSS THE FIELD OF PLAY (B-BALL/F-BALL)? OR HOW ON FIGHT NIGHT, YOU CAN LITERALLY THROW A THOUSAND PUNCHES IF THE FIGHT GOES DEEP. AND YOUR BOXER WILL HAVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF ENERGY. (REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN PUNCHED TO THE BODY)!

FEEL ME?

[totalownership]

ITS FUNNY HOW ON ALL OF EA'S GAMES THERE IS AN AWFUL EXAGERATION FACTOR. IF YOU USE THE SPIN ON MADDEN, OR LIVE, DON'T IT TAKE YOU CLEAR ACROSS THE FIELD OF PLAY (B-BALL/F-BALL)? OR HOW ON FIGHT NIGHT, YOU CAN LITERALLY THROW A THOUSAND PUNCHES IF THE FIGHT GOES DEEP. AND YOUR BOXER WILL HAVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF ENERGY. (REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN PUNCHED TO THE BODY)!

FEEL ME?
Yeah see they're going for the WOW factor. So in EA land your boxer can win that fight, go take a leak, kiss his girl and get back in the ring for another 12. You wanna spin away from a sure tackle? You better make sure you got at least 5 yards between you can the nearest sideline because if not you just might clip the ref standing on the sideliine, oh wait there IS NO refs on the sideline. LOL. But dude, the game you're looking for aint NEVER going to be made. If a 10 year old can't pick it up and play they're not going to make it. Even 2k is going to get but so real. They'll for sure be more real than anything EA will put out but they still need to sell games.

[UMhester04]

ITS FUNNY HOW ON ALL OF EA'S GAMES THERE IS AN AWFUL EXAGERATION FACTOR. IF YOU USE THE SPIN ON MADDEN, OR LIVE, DON'T IT TAKE YOU CLEAR ACROSS THE FIELD OF PLAY (B-BALL/F-BALL)? OR HOW ON FIGHT NIGHT, YOU CAN LITERALLY THROW A THOUSAND PUNCHES IF THE FIGHT GOES DEEP. AND YOUR BOXER WILL HAVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF ENERGY. (REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY TIMES YOU'VE BEEN PUNCHED TO THE BODY)!

FEEL ME?


Definately. Dont you ever wonder about why madden is still not how any of us want it to be (and nowhere where it should be if you ask me,) and madden has been with us for what like 10 years? The first time I have even played a game of 2K football was with 2K5 and it was the best football game I have ever played.

What I am trying to get at is, madden has been around for quite some time now and 2K has had their first great game with NFL 2K5. 2K gave us great gameplay and presentation all in one game while madden is still trying to catch up. This is why 2K produces such a great game, because they listen to their customers and they follow through with what their original gameplan was, plus adding more to make us happy. EA got scared after 2K5 did so well that they had to put a stop to us by buying the liscense. Well it looks like theres no stoppin us now huh EA?:lol:

[thePLAGUE]

I have to say Lawston, you are one smart dude...He is right, 2k does have to tighten up the gameplay...A lot of times the FB or RB didnt block or an offensive lineman decided to double team a DL instead of the middle linebacker...I also think the DBs have to react more intelligently, even if they miss a play...That reminds me, add frustrated DB animations....Honestyly speaking, even with these minor flaws, 2k was heads and shoulders above madden but having said that, they can still get better. We are in the next generation and asking for a near perfect games isnt asking too much anymore...The price of these games systems are the yearly salary of some people in 3rd world countries...Very liberal post Lawston and we need to commend you for that....

Lets not turn into madden zombies. 2k needs to tighten the gameplay and allow for more scheming...A lot of rookies(online players) were scoring points in 2k5 when they shouldnt be.....I really want to see my Te's or FB blocking or at least trying to, when I call upon them...

[lawston52]

I MEAN THAT MAYBE SO, BUT I DO BELIEVE 2K WILL PUT FORTH THE EFFORT IF SOME THINGS (WE) FEEL NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED. BUT I READ MOST POST AND AS YOU CAN SEE I HAVE POST MUCH, BUT I'VE BEEN A MEMBER FOR A GOOD LIL MINUTE. I DO HOWEVER FEEL IF WE MENTION TO THE FOLKS AT 2K MORE "SPORT" SPECIFICS THEN I DO FEEL THEY'LL DO THEIR BEST.. JUST AS THEY HAVE SO FAR. BUT IF ALL THEY'RE GETTING IN POST AND FEEDBACKS ARE STADIUMS, AND UNIFORMS AND.. YA KNOW. THINK ABOUT HOW THE GAME OF FOOTBALL HAS CHANGED IN THE PAST 10 YEARS. YOU CAN'T EVEN HIT THE QB IN THE HEAD NOW, BUT WHEN LETS SAY **** BUTKUS (SP) WAS PLAYING IT'LL WAS HELL FOR OPPOSING QBS (ITS ALL BECAUSE OWNERS COMPLAIN AND BROUGHT THE ISSUE UP ON PROTECTING THEIR INVESTMENT). BY NO MEANS IS 2K IN THE BACK SEAT TO EA ON ANY GAME, BUT IF WE HAVE KNOWLEDGE ON A SPORT WHY NOT BRING IT UP.

FEEL ME?

OH, BUT I DO FEEL YOU ON THE RANGE OF PEOPLE PLAYING THE GAME, AND SO NATURALLY THEY PROBABLY WON'T GET TOO IN-DEPTH WITH SPECIFICS.

[lawston52]

Definately. Dont you ever wonder about why madden is still not how any of us want it to be (and nowhere where it should be if you ask me,) and madden has been with us for what like 10 years? The first time I have even played a game of 2K football was with 2K5 and it was the best football game I have ever played.

What I am trying to get at is, madden has been around for quite some time now and 2K has had their first great game with NFL 2K5. 2K gave us great gameplay and presentation all in one game while madden is still trying to catch up. This is why 2K produces such a great game, because they listen to their customers and they follow through with what their original gameplan was, plus adding more to make us happy. EA got scared after 2K5 did so well that they had to put a stop to us by buying the liscense. Well it looks like theres no stoppin us now huh EA?:lol:

DAWG, THE 1ST TIME I PLAYED 2K4 I BELIVE WITH WARREN SAPP ON THE COVER (EVEN THOUGH I STILL LIKED IT ON DREAMCAST... I'M TALKING ABOUT THE NEW 2K) I PLAYED ONE SNAP, AND I SAW A DOUBLE TEAM ON THE NOSE, I SAW LB'S FLYING TO THE BALL AND I SAW A DB GET TRUCKED BY ALSTOTT, ONLY THEN GET GANG TACKLED BY DERRICK BROOKS AND SHELDON QUARLES (THIS WAS IN PRACTICE MODE TO GET A FEEL FOR THE GAME) AND IT WAS LIKE I NUTTED ON MYSELF.. I WAS LIKE YO! I'M NEVER PLAYING MADDEN AGAIN.. AND FROM THEN ON, I'M A 2K JUNKIE.

[UMhester04]

Yeah 2K is just flat out more realistic than EA will ever be and well see this with APF2K8

[totalownership]

DAWG, THE 1ST TIME I PLAYED 2K4 I BELIVE WITH WARREN SAPP ON THE COVER (EVEN THOUGH I STILL LIKED IT ON DREAMCAST... I'M TALKING ABOUT THE NEW 2K) I PLAYED ONE SNAP, AND I SAW A DOUBLE TEAM ON THE NOSE, I SAW LB'S FLYING TO THE BALL AND I SAW A DB GET TRUCKED BY ALSTOTT, ONLY THEN GET GANG TACKLED BY DERRICK BROOKS AND SHELDON QUARLES (THIS WAS IN PRACTICE MODE TO GET A FEEL FOR THE GAME) AND IT WAS LIKE I NUTTED ON MYSELF.. I WAS LIKE YO! I'M NEVER PLAYING MADDEN AGAIN.. AND FROM THEN ON, I'M A 2K JUNKIE.

Yeah but even as you say this and I say what said earlier then you get the times when I got the D fooled and got a lane right up the middle with Finn taking it on his own to lead me in the hole only to, at the last second, bust his azzz to get out the way of the LB so he can nail me so fast I don't even have time to bust out one of those R-stick moves. 2K killed me with that one but it paled in comparison to that pinball mess in Madden.

[BigDRunnin]

FIRST OFF,

LET ME TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS. SECOND OF ALL, FOOTBALL IS NOT A COMPLICATED SPORT, MOST PEOPLE CAN WATCH FOOTBALL FOR A YEAR, AND KNOW WHO ARE SUPOSED TO COVER WHAT GAPS. I, MYSELF, HAVE PLAYED 6 YEARS OF FOOTBALL (4 IN HIGH SCHOOL, 2 IN COLLEGE). LAW, U ARE FORGETTING A FEW THINGS. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SATISFIED WITH A FOOTBALL GAME? YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE A BIT TOO MUCH. YOUR ARE ASKING FOR INCREDIBLE AI. SOME DAY ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WILL COME TRUE (CONTAINMENTS, COVER 2 SITUATIONS..ETC, ETC), IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE THAT JUDGEMENTAL ABOUT A VIDEOGAME THEN DONT PLAY IT. VIDEOGAMES ARE "GAMES". IF PEOPLE WANTED TO GO OUT THERE AND PLAY WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, THEY WOULD GO PLAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL, TURKEY BOWLS, COLLEGE...I WOULDNT BE WASTING YOUR TIME GETTING ****ED OFF AT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE A LITTLE EXCITED ABOUT A FOOTBALL GAME COMING OUT. YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME.

GAMEPLAY IS IMPORTANT, BUT ITS BEEN REPEATED AND REPEATED, 2K HASNT f#CKED UP YET, AND IM SURE THEY WONT NOW. HAVE A BEER, LET THAT BLOOD PRESSURE LOWER, OR SLEEP THE NIGHT OFF THEN RE-POST. YOUR GETTING A HARD ON FOR NO REASON.

GET AT ME-

[Millertime1979]

FIRST OFF,

LET ME TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS. SECOND OF ALL, FOOTBALL IS NOT A COMPLICATED SPORT, MOST PEOPLE CAN WATCH FOOTBALL FOR A YEAR, AND KNOW WHO ARE SUPOSED TO COVER WHAT GAPS. I, MYSELF, HAVE PLAYED 6 YEARS OF FOOTBALL (4 IN HIGH SCHOOL, 2 IN COLLEGE). LAW, U ARE FORGETTING A FEW THINGS. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SATISFIED WITH A FOOTBALL GAME? YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE A BIT TOO MUCH. YOUR ARE ASKING FOR INCREDIBLE AI. SOME DAY ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WILL COME TRUE (CONTAINMENTS, COVER 2 SITUATIONS..ETC, ETC), IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE THAT JUDGEMENTAL ABOUT A VIDEOGAME THEN DONT PLAY IT. VIDEOGAMES ARE "GAMES". IF PEOPLE WANTED TO GO OUT THERE AND PLAY WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, THEY WOULD GO PLAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL, TURKEY BOWLS, COLLEGE...I WOULDNT BE WASTING YOUR TIME GETTING ****ED OFF AT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE A LITTLE EXCITED ABOUT A FOOTBALL GAME COMING OUT. YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME.

GAMEPLAY IS IMPORTANT, BUT ITS BEEN REPEATED AND REPEATED, 2K HASNT f#CKED UP YET, AND IM SURE THEY WONT NOW. HAVE A BEER, LET THAT BLOOD PRESSURE LOWER, OR SLEEP THE NIGHT OFF THEN RE-POST. YOUR GETTING A HARD ON FOR NO REASON.

GET AT ME-
please dont **** him off, he hasnt had his meds for today

[lawston52]

FIRST OFF,

LET ME TYPE IN ALL CAPS TO GET MY POINT ACROSS. SECOND OF ALL, FOOTBALL IS NOT A COMPLICATED SPORT, MOST PEOPLE CAN WATCH FOOTBALL FOR A YEAR, AND KNOW WHO ARE SUPOSED TO COVER WHAT GAPS. I, MYSELF, HAVE PLAYED 6 YEARS OF FOOTBALL (4 IN HIGH SCHOOL, 2 IN COLLEGE). LAW, U ARE FORGETTING A FEW THINGS. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN SATISFIED WITH A FOOTBALL GAME? YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE A BIT TOO MUCH. YOUR ARE ASKING FOR INCREDIBLE AI. SOME DAY ALL WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WILL COME TRUE (CONTAINMENTS, COVER 2 SITUATIONS..ETC, ETC), IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE THAT JUDGEMENTAL ABOUT A VIDEOGAME THEN DONT PLAY IT. VIDEOGAMES ARE "GAMES". IF PEOPLE WANTED TO GO OUT THERE AND PLAY WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING, THEY WOULD GO PLAY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL, TURKEY BOWLS, COLLEGE...I WOULDNT BE WASTING YOUR TIME GETTING ****ED OFF AT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE A LITTLE EXCITED ABOUT A FOOTBALL GAME COMING OUT. YOUR WASTING YOUR TIME.

GAMEPLAY IS IMPORTANT, BUT ITS BEEN REPEATED AND REPEATED, 2K HASNT f#CKED UP YET, AND IM SURE THEY WONT NOW. HAVE A BEER, LET THAT BLOOD PRESSURE LOWER, OR SLEEP THE NIGHT OFF THEN RE-POST. YOUR GETTING A HARD ON FOR NO REASON.

GET AT ME-


SO BIG D RUNNING... WHERE DID YOU PLAY? POSITION? YEARS (COLLEGE)?

BUT ONCE AGAIN, THE OBJECTIVE HERE IS TO MENTION AND TALK ABOUT FOOTBALL... NOT "EXTREMEDIES" I.E. THE CROWD DOING THE WAVE... (EVEN THOUGH THAT MIGHT BE COOL). I'D RATHER SEE MY TE AND OT DOUBLE TEAM THE DE IN THE C-GAP AND WORK THEIR WAY UP THE THE OLB OR MIKE (PLAY/FRONT DEPENDING) INSTEAD OF HEARING A "BETTER SOUNDTRACK OR SEE CHEERLEADERS BEING FLIPPED AND YELLING THROUGH THE MEGAPHONE"... THAT'S THE REASON FOR THE SEASON.

SO LET'S START MENTIONING FOOTBALL INSTEAD OF THE SH*T THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GAME. BECAUSE FOOTBALL IS A SIMPLE GAME, LIKE SOMEONE STATED EARLIER, BUT ITS FUNNY IN ITS SIMPLICITY, MANY OF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

[Nishua]

Expecting 2K to focus on gameplay is like expecting George Bush to make a dumb decision... you don't have to ask for it because you already know it's going to happen.
]

Agreed. Obviously gameplay is a concern because no matter how good a game looks if it fails in that area its crap. *cough* Doom 3.

[GoatHeadedBoy]

Doom 3 was awesome man great gameplay, great story, and horrible movie. :)

[KRS-One]

NO BUDDY, IF I WANTED MADDEN... I WOULDN'T BE ON A 2K SITE. OBVIOUSLY, I'M A 2K FAN. BUT IT IS VERY APPARENT THAT MOST POSTS ARE ABOUT THINGS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FOOTBALL.

OH AND BY THE WAY, HAVE YOU PLAYED MADDEN LATELY, THAT'S WHAT WE CALL TRASH! AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU... ALL OF EA GAMES ARE TRASH, NOT JUST MADDEN, LIVE OR FIGHT NIGHT. THEY ALL ARE MADE FOR PEOPLE WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE SPORT OR GENRE OF THE FIELD THEIR TRYING TO "VIDEOGAMEALIZE"

ONE.

Seriously dude, I agree with your initial post; I just want an incredible game of football, and THEN they can worry about the extras, but if you want to be taken seriously, lose the CAPS LOCK.

[sportsgeist]

Lawston52 Football isn't just about gameplay. 2K has gameplay in spades compared to other football games. Football is also about atmosphere. Little League, High school, College and Pro football may be the same game but have different atmosphere to them. You always see where people write in threads about the atmosphere 2K put in their games because all other brands are so bad at it. Just like one of the other guys said but not in so may words "VC has gameplay covered". The other games need to worry about gameplay first before anything else.

[Akuma2000]

If APF2K8 surpasses even half of what espn2k5 was, EA sports is in trouble because there won't be anything they can do to combat the game except make madden better which we all know they won't do because they figure since they have the license people will buy the game anyway.........heh, karma is a b**ch.

[SIMSAHOY]

IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT WANT BETTER GAMEPLAY? OR IS EVERYONE LOOKING FORWARD TO PRESENTATION, STADIUMS, CHEERLEADERS, AND F-ING SIDELINE ATTRACTIONS? AND IF SO, WHY DO MOST POST/REPLIES TALK CONTINUOUSLY ON THOSE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY REAL FOOTBALL LOVERS (11 ON 11, SIDELINE TO SIDELINE, END ZONE TO END ZONE) OUT THERE. GOT D@MN, LETS GET A BETTER FOOTBALL GAME 1ST AND MAYBE THEN WILL WE B!TC# AND MOAN ABOUT THE OTHER S#!T.

GET AT ME.
-LAWSTON
:bark: ARE YOU ON METH:rotfl:

[b-Dub]

DUDE, LAY OFF THE CAPS, PLEASE. IT'S MESSING THINGS UP!! BIG TIME!! AND TAKING AWAY OUR ABILITY TO REALLY TAKE YOU SERIOUSLY!!! YOU CAN STILL MAKE A POINT WITHOUT USING ALL CAPS!!!!!

My eyes are now all :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: after reading your posts.

Anywho...

1. You will never see a 'perfect' game of football. There aren't any AI algorithms that are good enough to fully represent football. And even if there were, there isn't enough processing power yet to handle all that number crunching and still have a decently playable game.

2. While striving to make the game an acurate representation of football, you also have to keep a certain fun factor in the game to appeal to as many people as possible.

3. Gameplay is something that they haven't faultered on, as has been mentioned many times over. There were some quirks in 2K5, and they have been well voiced and surely documented. These guys know what they are doing, they aren't Tiburon after all.

oh, and lose the all caps man. my eyes hurt. :eek: :eek:

[GoatHeadedBoy]

To the topic Creator yes you are correct! Obviously none of know what football is or how it is "operated!" Sorry we wasted your time.

[CAGE RATTLER]

Interesting thread!!

Obviously gameplay is important ............ thats a given and 2K has shown they know that too and thats why 2K5 is STILL better than madden of today.

When i read your 1st post .......... i thought ..... Man this is a perfect thread to be in a madden forum!! lol And if there isnt threads like this in Madden forums ..... there should be.

Theres plenty of threads here and on the 2K5 forum about the games weaknesses including.........
The DL glitch
Easy QB running
DB's running in circles at times

I cant even think of any more off hand and thats why 2K's gameplay is second to none and should only get better with the new game.

One other thing to think about is it is just a game and not a sim! (but its getting closer)

If every DB had perfect coverage and every blocker blocked perfectly .............. we would have 500 yard running games .... lol.

I think 2K5 was a very good balanced game myself and our league stats prove that!!

We play Legend mode with 6 minute quarters and the amount of plays, passing yards, running yards and scores are very realistic!! Not to mention we have all sim p[layers that dont exploit any weaknesses in the gameplay.

Balance is the key to realism (and fun) in a football game and thats why i play this game!

YOU CANT COACH THAT!

[CAGE RATTLER]

One other thought .......... Instead of *****ing about what people are posting.

Post what gameplay changes you do want to see in a thread that 2K developers might look at.

[lawston52]

This is long as hell... but I hope yall enjoy it.

Warning: These ideas do not reflect the views of the staff of 2K Sports and their affiliates.
To those who play videogames for PRESENTATION, STADIUMS, HALFTIME SHOWS, OR OTHER INTEREST THAT DON’T PERTAIN TO THE ON-FIELD BATTLE, THEN THIS BLOG ISN’T FOR YOU (although those things are good supplements to the 11 on 11 football)

*Added this for Sportsgeist at the last moment
To the one who talked about the atmosphere of a videogame(SPORTSGEIST)... tell me you can feel a difference in "atmosphere" between EA college football and Madden and/or 2k5. You can physically notice, college stadiums are typically more packed. No, but what you can tell is that the college play clock is shorter thus making more action than the NFL, which has a play clock of 40 secs. You don't physically feel the excitment when you're playing a videogame and looking at the stadium. But you can feel uplifted and/or down if your team performs well or bad on that same videogame. If we were playing John Elway's football or 10yd Fight, if the game resembles football, then I'll play it. You obviously haven't read all that's been said. So why wouldn't you want your team to do things they might do in real life. I'm sorry, but watching my FB run past a blitzing LB isn't exciting to me. Videogame or Real Life. I don't care about the stadium, (its nice, don't get me wrong... but I'd rather not see my Left Guard let the Nose come up blocked up the middle on a dive or any play for that matter. Anywho...
moment over*

1st off let me say that I’ve played Madden for years. And for the most part, the game was okay. That was before 2k’s version of football came out on Sega Dreamcast. And since then I’ve been hooked. From play calling on my own controller, to the complexity of a real game put into a videogame. And for those who like “extras!!!!” what about the commercials of 2k with Tracy Morgan talking with Ben Wallace or when he was ice skating and bust his ***!. Funny right?! They’ve always been a football field ahead of the competition 989 and EA.

Since most people are more in tuned to be mainly interested in offense, I’ll start off with that.

Let’s start up front.
Blocking: The blocking schemes on this game are probably the most over looked aspect of this game. Most fans think is GREAT to have opposing down linemen to penetrate up touched. And this happens on most formations and plays. (Why would I block certain people on the back side and have people on the front side come scott free.)
Double Teams: For those who don’t know, 65-75% of football plays have at least one double team. But on our beloved Madden, there are NONE. It looks like there might be a double team, but IT JUST LOOK LIKE IT B/C ONE OF THE LINEMEN AREN’T PHYSICALLY TOUCHING THE DLMAN. Remember the 3rd and 8 Indy had on the Bears? And they converted with a RUN. And by running the ball, take a look and the right side of the offensive line. Jeff Saturday and the right guard double teamed Tank Johnson; and the right guard was able to chip (or eat block) up to the next level to get his hands on the Mike LB (Brian Urlacher), thus re-establishing the line of scrimmage. Thus, MAGNIFYING Indy’s statement of rushing domination. I can turn on ESPN 2k4 or 5 and see double teams throughout the gameplay. For instance in real life…, if you didn’t double team Warren Sapp in his prime, he was going to be every game’s MVP; or don’t double team a 300lb DE in Richard Seymour would spell trouble for any OL, that’s how valuable a good DT is and how important to double team DLmen. One year he had 30less tackles than Simeon Rice, and a couple of sacks less, and guess who went to the Pro Bowl? (Nothing against Simeon… an outstanding DE, much respect.) But facts still remain, Warren Sapp in his prime caused headaches for every opposing coach.
Zone Blocking: On that very same play that Indy converted on, they ran a stretch play. And the type of blocking they executed was a zone/stretch. When you do this, you leave the backside defenders and the tackle tries to block the weakside linebacker and tries to create a cut back lane. Did you guys see it in action? IT WORKS IN REAL LIFE, BUT NOT ON MADDEN.
Counters: Have yall ever ran a counter on Madden and you beat the pulling lineman? That don’t happen in real life either, but for some reason, the characters at EA think that’s HOT!!!. But in actuality, it isn’t. The purpose of a counter is to bate the contain defender up the field and have him kicked out by the pulling OL. But not on Madden. Not to be solely critical of EA because I’ve seen the same sometimes on 2k games too. But 2k does a better job of timing even though it can be tweaked more too.
TEs suck at blocking: Just like it says… Why are the TEs easily dominated when they try to block DEs? Or why do DEs seem so stunt inward and come free and untouched? Are we getting the point with the blocking in Madden?, or do we not pay attention to these things?

...continued....

[lawston52]

... continuing from last post...

Since we just talked about the OL and their flaws, let’s go to the other side of the ball. DL.

Note the o are offense and the #s are defense alignments.
I’m about to explain the spacing on a DL pertaining the offense. Try to follow along. (Not trying to be demeaning to anyone. We’re just trying to be detailed and thorough.)
Slide protection: Much props goes out to the Madden Camp for this addition to a videogame. This is good if it actually WORKED!!! It doesn’t. Yeah, the lineman will slide on the snap, but I’ve seen countless times where there’s a DE aligned on the TE so I call slide protection to that side and the OT to that side disregards the DE COMING FREE RIGHT AT ME. DAMN, ANOTHER SACK; all because my OT didn’t SLIDE to the DE. He SLID to a spot. So that makes me keep my TE to block but then that takes me back because the TE can’t block DEs.


Defensive linemen (DL):

OT OG C OG OT TE
O O O O O O
5 4 3G2 101 2G3 4 5 6 9


Now let’s break these numbers/techniques down. These are DL alignments (Numbers may vary, terminology may vary but idea remains the same throughout football).

*from left to right*
5technique = usually the DE aligns on the outside should of the OT. Sometimes have contain, but in this alignment, he can easily stunt to different gaps (I hope yall understand gaps A - (next to the center) B - (outside Guards, inside Tackles) C – (outside Tackles, inside TE). Anyway I’m straying away from purpose. Back to techniques.

4technique = an inside shade on the OT. Mostly used in GL and heavy run support (i.e. a loaded Defensive front). Sometimes can move to heads up on Tackle.

3technique = an outside shade on the OG, mostly used by a more agile DT b/c they’ll be moving and stunting most of the time. They can stunt with the nose and/or the DE.

Gtechnique = is a DL aligned head up on the Guard which can let the LBers that the center may not be covered down meaning the center can come off the ball freely to the LBs.

2technique = usually found on FG/Pat block and Punt block/return b/c you can hit the snapper while in the vulnerable position. But DL can use this technique as well. You may see it on potential QB sneaks.

1technique = usually a bigger DT like a Ted Washington. This technique is usually called the NOSE Tackle. But most teams use the DT system not making one or the other a nose. But for the Sam Adams of football, they’ll be proud to be called the NOSE! They can stunt with the 3technique and the DE but seldomly executed. B/c he’s usually slower. But if you’re Booger McFarland, then you’ll be stunting all day.

0technique = this is heads up on the center, usually seen in a 3-4 defense; giving the “Nose” a two-gap responsibility.

Also:
6techinque = is a heads up alignment on the TE, obviously played by the DE. This Technique is mostly used to control the C gap by the DE and still keeping his outside arm free making the TE to double him and having the TE fight up to the next level instead of the OT.

9technique = an outside alignment on the TE. Only team I can think of right off top who use this is Florida State University. They’ll use this technique with or without the TE, thus giving their DEs a major outside rush. And to their credit, they put players in the NFL, so it must be doing some justice. Anyway back to what we’re here for.

So now you’ve been informed on alignment let’s try to get both games to think about this when creating alignments for the Defense front line.

DL Stunting:

The Madden obvious “Crash Rt/Lft”. Boring for folks who know there’s more to DL stunts than these 2. So they added a couple of stunts that are play specific. Like a Nose and 3technique stunt on a couple of plays. They also have a DE and DT stunt on a Cover 2 play. Needless to say, the Stunt game on Madden is Robotic and VERY limited to say the best about it. But thank GOD we have 2k and their attention to this detail. Even back on Sega Dreamcast, you could choose from a team specific selection of DL stunts. Thank You!!!. The reason this is important is that deception is critical in football. I might align my DL a certain way, but the line stunt could cause more commotion than the alignment.

But what EA has does to offset the DL shifting, is Implement Slide Protection (already went over that earlier). Starting to see the Big Circle?

So we’ve gone in details on some Front Line actions, we hope not to have lost yall in doing so. We know most people who are playing videogames don’t know much about the particular arena that of the game they’re playing… understandable. We’re just trying to get people to see not only the flaws in Madden, but also see the lack of football that’s “NOT IN THE GAME!”

QB Vision:
So onto the Madden acclaimed best attribute of a football videogame. QB vision. Now we say that this is truly a break through of football videogames. This too, has a major flaw. Have you played a game, and you’re on Defense, and you call Cover 2? And so you see a WR running an out route right into your coverage; and you think if he throws to the out, that should be a pick or at least a pass breakup. But no because he throws the ball high and the WR just out jumps the Corner and while the corner is going through the motion of intercepting the ball, the WR caught the ball and is now working his way down the sideline on his way towards the End Zone? That happens ALL THE TIME! Not just in cover 2, but ALL COVERAGES! (TO THE MADDEN LOVERS READING THIS, JUST TURN ON YOUR LIGHT AND THROW THE BALL HIGH, YOU’LL BE SUCESSFUL). But for yall who just want a realistic game. Let’s point out the flaws to EA Tiburon (Orlando), because obviously the game testers don’t really play the games.

Once again, I use to be a Madden/EA fanatic. But now I don’t like any of their games. From Fight Night to Superman and everything in between (and superman is my favorite everything DC/Marvel or anything). But the game sucks. Anyway. But if you don’t use the QB vision glitch, this is a very GOOD THING. Mind you, without the glitch.

Highlight Stick:
This is VERY similar to the right analog stick in the 2k5 game. But instead of calling it the 2k5 right analog stick move, they called it highlight stick. Good for them. But let’s analyze their version. HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW WARRICK DUNN OR THE NEW WILLIE PARKER? Because if you haven’t, then you need to use the “highlight stick” with these guys, because you’d swear they look like JEROME BETIS. I’ve seen Willie Parker truck RAY LEWIS. Are you kidding me? I’ve seen Ladameion Tolminson Truck Richard Seymour as soon as the ball was snapped (Seymour, came straight through the OL on the snap, untouched?). But it didn’t matter because he was trucked. How about that!?
I guess when you think about it, 2k really had the right idea of the right analog stick moves because they used the up to stutter and left/right performed lft/rt jukes. Back was to stop. (Sounding Familiar?) But even on “old-Gen”, 2k took it a couple of steps further, but letting the user combine moves i.e. juke w/ a spin, or juke lft, then juke rt. So on and so on. But for some reason, Madden lovers love this “addition.” But 2k fans know the deal.
But Hold on now, not to leave 2k out of it again. In 2k4/5 you could charge your player and use the truck button and most of the time, no matter who you were, you would truck who ever were trying to make a tackle. So let’s not get too complacent 2k. You have work to do as well.

So now we’ll try to take you on a more in depth look at the defensive side of the ball even though we’ve talked about the DL, Defense don’t just stop up front. But it is however the focal point of any Defense. So now we’ll talk about the 2nd line and secondary.

*a side note* it don’t matter who the LBs are or DBs are, but without a good pass rush or good gap control, then these two (LBs and DBs) won’t be successful.


2k does a great job with the defensive front line holding and working double teams.



Are yall seeing my point?

[lawston52]

Defensive linemen (DL):

.......OT.....OG.....C........OG.....OT........TE
....... O...... O....... O...... O....... O....... O
.......5 4....3G2.....101....2G3.....4 5.......69

[dragonjp]

Lawson, you make a lot of great points in your thread. I have been watching/playing football for over twenty years, and your knowledge of the game is outstanding, to say the least. You are 100% right; we should challenge 2KSports to make a more realistic game, since 2K has always been the home of the true sim approach in sports videogaming (as opposed to the arcade approach of EA and Madden). I think that at the same time you have to consider that for most fans of football, the presentation side of the game is a very real part of the game-playing experience. How many cats have spent time breaking down Zone Blitzes or figuring out how a 265 lb. down lineman like Jason Taylor can get 18 sacks against 330 lb. o-linemen? We live in a society dominated by television where pretty TV reporters like Pam Oliver on FOX get a chance to interview Ladanian Tomlinson and ask him about dubs on his rides and not about his technique on picking up blitzes to the QB's weak side. I have said it before and I'll say it again; the cats on 2kSports forums share some of the most intelligent/intriguing commentary on the net. Personally, I think that you are seeing more posts about the presentation side because for the most part us 2k fans trust that Visual Concepts will make the gameplay in APF2K8 stunning. After the milestone that was NFL2K5, and the new next-gen power they have to play with, we wouldn't expect anything less....

[lawston52]

Lawson, you make a lot of great points in your thread. I have been watching/playing football for over twenty years, and your knowledge of the game is outstanding, to say the least. You are 100% right; we should challenge 2KSports to make a more realistic game, since 2K has always been the home of the true sim approach in sports videogaming (as opposed to the arcade approach of EA and Madden). I think that at the same time you have to consider that for most fans of football, the presentation side of the game is a very real part of the game-playing experience. How many cats have spent time breaking down Zone Blitzes or figuring out how a 265 lb. down lineman like Jason Taylor can get 18 sacks against 330 lb. o-linemen? We live in a society dominated by television where pretty TV reporters like Pam Oliver on FOX get a chance to interview Ladanian Tomlinson and ask him about dubs on his rides and not about his technique on picking up blitzes to the QB's weak side. I have said it before and I'll say it again; the cats on 2kSports forums share some of the most intelligent/intriguing commentary on the net. Personally, I think that you are seeing more posts about the presentation side because for the most part us 2k fans trust that Visual Concepts will make the gameplay in APF2K8 stunning. After the milestone that was NFL2K5, and the new next-gen power they have to play with, we wouldn't expect anything less....

Preciate that playa. And I'm sure you're knowledge of the game is great as well... 20yrs in the game.. d@mn, but much respect. I love football. To me, football is the greatest teaching tool of all sports, because of the elements, but thats another topic. I do agree with the fun and extra content. I only feel as a people, we have to acknowledge place we want to go and strive to get there and my initial comment, all I'm trying to ask is that why don't we see more gameplay improvements 1st. I'm a 2k junkie.. I'm sure there are a lot of people that played the game 24. but how much more people don't even know 2k made it. I do. I'm sure you do as well. so I'm not here to bash 2k at all. But if I believe the CB should play cover 2 from deep to short unless there's an immediate threat to the flat, then he should get depth. But you play some of these guys and you say hey, that don't happen in real life and then they might say "how do you know.. or yes it would" and so on.. I would just like for a level of certain knowledge to play part. Another example.. if I come out in 20 personnel.. 2 Backs and 0 TE, I know the Defense can play base or nickel. but If I come out in 10 personnel or kings (1 Back 1 TE).. see most things like personnel, are across the board. Because of the "emphasis on Pro style". Queens is Queen.. Kings is Kings.. on College and pro level. So I wouldn't keep 3 LB's on the field playing 4-3 when the offense is in more than 3WRs on the field. But on All videogames, you can play defense with just about any personnel, IF YOU KNEW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME. And that shouldn't be the factor. WE want Realism, but are afraid to ask for it???

[totalownership]

I'll say it again. A game like what you're proposing would cost at least 100 bucks for 2K to invest in. Most people would just be completely overwhelmed and would drop it in a weeks time. I'd buy it. You'd buy it. A few HARDCORE and those wanting to get their knowledge up would buy it but you can pretty much forget about any Madden fan buying it and quite a few 2K'ers wouldn't either. That kind of game just wouldn't sell well. Anybody under at least 14 probably wouldn't buy it. Remember 2K's first and primary goal is to make money. Second, make more money, now here's where 2K and EA probably split, 3rd goal for 2K is really quality of product for fans and consumers. EA's 3rd goal is to make even more money.

I'm not a defeatest but I'm a realist. I wouldn't even suggest they make a game like that as their primary football game for the simple fact that I'd like the company to be around for a while and not go bankrupt. Now if they do something like supposedly they did with this game, do a little here and there on their freetime or whatever, then I'm all for a game like that coming out. Would cost little to no resources so I'm assured my favorite company for sports games is still around. It may take some years to see the light of day but I'd buy it.

[baandje]

I'll say it again. A game like what you're proposing would cost at least 100 bucks for 2K to invest in. Most people would just be completely overwhelmed and would drop it in a weeks time. I'd buy it. You'd buy it. A few HARDCORE and those wanting to get their knowledge up would buy it but you can pretty much forget about any Madden fan buying it and quite a few 2K'ers wouldn't either. That kind of game just wouldn't sell well. Anybody under at least 14 probably wouldn't buy it. Remember 2K's first and primary goal is to make money. Second, make more money, now here's where 2K and EA probably split, 3rd goal for 2K is really quality of product for fans and consumers. EA's 3rd goal is to make even more money.
Nice to see good old common sense. Some people seem to be expecting the moon, while the rest of us just want a decent football game ala NFL 2K5.

[FakedShinobi`]

Nice to see good old common sense. Some people seem to be expecting the moon, while the rest of us just want a decent football game ala NFL 2K5.


95% of the people on this board are expecting the best football game ever made..

[baandje]

95% of the people on this board are expecting the best football game ever made..
All VC has to do is take NFL 2K5, upgrade the graphics, add more animations and fix the AI and bugs, and you've got the best football game ever made. And I'm guessing that's what they're doing.

[lawston52]

But if you (we) don't ask for specifics, then they won't know what exactly we want. For instance, If I run a counter play, then I (the RB) shouldn't get to the "kick out man" before my pulling lineman does. (just an example).

[baandje]

But if you (we) don't ask for specifics, then they won't know what exactly we want.
I completely trust VC to produce the greatest football game ever made. They don't need my input. They'll do just fine.

[GhostRider]

All VC has to do is take NFL 2K5, upgrade the graphics, add more animations and fix the AI and bugs, and you've got the best football game ever made. And I'm guessing that's what they're doing.

I also believe this will be the greatest football game ever.

[y2kato6]

Lawston, i dont know what level of football you have played before or know, but it must have been some mickey mouse bush league if your on these forums complaining about gameplay and how much you know football, and we dont. you dont have a CLUE as to what level of football any of us has experienced or knows. i remember geeks like you on the football team who never got past practice squad because you think you know so much about the sport, but couldnt actually play it, cause you spent all your time playin video games and going on forums and pickin stupid fights. guys like you who think they know it all, got hung by there jock straps after practice. settle down chief guy, its a video game. its ment to be fun and creative.

[NFL2K]

Madden's QB vision (the Helmet flashlight, lol) is one of the stupidest ideas ever. Beams of light don't come out of people's heads.

EA could have done that and made it not look as ridiculous as it does. They could have made it as just transparent lines or something. Again, it's a stupid idea.

[FakedShinobi`]

All VC has to do is take NFL 2K5, upgrade the graphics, add more animations and fix the AI and bugs, and you've got the best football game ever made. And I'm guessing that's what they're doing.


so basically pull a EA sports move?

use your head please...

[alltime22]

I'd have to dissagree with the fact that everybody is more interested in presentation over gameplay...maybe customization?lol....But to be realistic, I think everybody would prefer improved AI over everything else. I thought 2k5 was ALMOST perfect...but of course, there's many things that they can still improve on and include that they haven't already....One BIG point people are missing is that your team and your players are not always going to do what you want them to...THAT'S FOOTBALL...guys blow assignments all the time in real life....so there's no reason not to see this in video games as well....that's just the way it is!!! Collectively though, if you know your football and how to scheme against your opponent, you will probably win a lot of games....Maybe, in the future, if football games get really advanced, they will have different AI settings for rookie, pro, all pro, and legend settings!!!!! So if your not that knowlegable about real football stratagy, you can play with more basic settings, on the other hand if you know a lot you can select all pro or legend...I know they kind of do this already but I'm talking about big differences in game play!!!

[b-Dub]

But if you (we) don't ask for specifics, then they won't know what exactly we want. For instance, If I run a counter play, then I (the RB) shouldn't get to the "kick out man" before my pulling lineman does. (just an example).

You know, at this stage in the game, with the game slated to come out around August sometime (so the rumors go, so don't quote me on that), I would imagine most of the gameplay that they are going to put into the game are already there. They will probably add some more stuff, but nothing major. They should be in the tweaking phase and making sure what they do have in works, and works well.

[baandje]

so basically pull a EA sports move?

use your head please...
If you think VC is going to do much more than that, you're in for a disappointment. No next-gen game from 2K has been anything except a port of their last-gen game, but with improved graphics and animations. Why would this game will be any different?

And you're telling me to use my head...

[jlsanderson]

Just curious for Lawson or anyone else. Did anyone ever play this game on the PC from Sierra sports? I hope they incorporate the AI from this old series. This is probably the best AI every created and still better then anything out there today minus the graphics? Just wanted to see if anyone else had experience with this game. You could customize almost everything in this game. Create formations and plays on offense and defense.
Hot and Cold streaks. Customize helmets and any attribute. People still play on line leagues. I have the PS3 sixaxis controller running on Windows XP and I use it to control the game play. Graphics are outdated but It is very fun and challenging.

[DIEHARD STEELERS #1]

For some odd reason I believe 2k can make a great next gen football game. Maybe this thread was started by a VC dev and hes just ****in with us.:rotfl:

[FakedShinobi`]

If you think VC is going to do much more than that, you're in for a disappointment. No next-gen game from 2K has been anything except a port of their last-gen game, but with improved graphics and animations. Why would this game will be any different?

And you're telling me to use my head...



lol then what is nba2k7? they changed the whole gameplay for nba2k7

[GoodSense]

IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT WANT BETTER GAMEPLAY? OR IS EVERYONE LOOKING FORWARD TO PRESENTATION, STADIUMS, CHEERLEADERS, AND F-ING SIDELINE ATTRACTIONS? AND IF SO, WHY DO MOST POST/REPLIES TALK CONTINUOUSLY ON THOSE THINGS? ARE THERE ANY REAL FOOTBALL LOVERS (11 ON 11, SIDELINE TO SIDELINE, END ZONE TO END ZONE) OUT THERE. GOT D@MN, LETS GET A BETTER FOOTBALL GAME 1ST AND MAYBE THEN WILL WE B!TC# AND MOAN ABOUT THE OTHER S#!T.

GET AT ME.
-LAWSTON

You make some good points Lawston.

But let me jump in if I may.

I think most people here want the game to resemble the real game.
I also think they expect it is 2K's highest priority.

But with any project eye candy does make a difference.
If a developer doesn't have the time to include a feature maybe they can include something else in that same time frame with this version. This happens all the time in software development.

Trust me you will see a balance list of features requested, but some people request is more of an addition to the game play.

Stadiums, Crowd Reaction, Cheerleaders, Off the field camera responses to plays, etc...

And remember we do see this on Sunday when we all sit down and watch the game.
We don't see the NFL ACCESS RE-PLAY version where it is all about plays during the game.


Think of about it this way.
A car is a means of transportation.
But I guarantee you when you make your selection eye candy is involved.
The stereo, the spoiler, the fog lights, the rims, the color, the sun roof, leather seats, power windows, over all vehicle style, etc...

I mean why not just go up to the lot as for an engine power, style (sport, coupe, suv, flat bed) and MPG if that even matters? Because there is a little more to driving from point A to point B.

The eye candy does make the game appealing and fun and adds to the effect of the game in some instances.



So don't assume that because you see an eye candy post that is all they have in mind or is even their highest priority. It is just them either adding in on one of the things they would like to see or and addition.


Also, some don't know a dog on thing about football just like you said too! :lol:

[FakedShinobi`]

o noo! goodsense is back! here he comes with his 7000 word replys!!


hello goodsense =)

[sportsgeist]

lawston52

For one thing if all you see is people posting about other things other than Gameplay then you were just too slow on the draw. You might be one of those kids that had to ride the short bus to school living in a big city. 2K5 is 3 years old and most of the people here are all talked out about gameplay. Most of us have already voiced our concern about gameplay. Most of us have come to grips with something we didn't like about 2K5's gameplay and posted it already. Some sites forums have glitch threads. Try finding them and reading them first before you post. We also know from past experience that VC does a very good job of listening to their fans unlike other companies. We can't say anything bad about the gameplay in 2K8 because its not out yet. Most of us like what VC has done with their presentation and atmosphere of their games and would like to see it expanded on. whats so bad about that? A lot of us aren't worried about the gameplay in 2K8 because Madden07 still isn't all that compared to 2K5. Down the line 2K beats Madden in gameplay. Is 2K5 perfect? NO but 2K5 is still better than Madden07 in terms of gameplay. As far as presentation is concerned Madden seems to like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

[lawston52]

Preciate the comment GOODSENSE.

I do understand the big scheme of things. Look, I'm not on here to get into the HS girl arguments with these dudes...

To the one kid who wants to discredit what I know about football... He has no clue. But thats besides the point.

So back to the message. Do I think 2k is way before their time Yes.. sort of like Tupac and Biggie.. (considered the best because of their timing) Are there things that are amazing in/on 2k games, YES. But there can be improvements. Do I think 2k does a good job trying to incorporate a realistic point of view/feel and gameplay, YES. Thats not the issue. The issue is that most of the people are mainly talking about the things that aren't about football. Would I like to change a player's number if he's traded and/or maybe his attributes according to what I think they should be.. YES, but I'd rather not have my MIKE LB run to the left when theres a toss to the right.

I know people blow assignments in football. As a matter of a fact, football is played from the eyebrows up. If you're playing on a specific level of any sport, then you are obviously qualified to play on that level. And so its the mental aspect of the game that makes and breaks a player. So I don't want to see Brian Urlacher Dropping back for a pass when its a direct dive. I'm sorry to those who care about crowds and celebrations.. its very aparent they aren't interested in football.

[lawston52]

to sportsgeist:
See bruh, I'm not on here to disrespect you.. b/c trust me homeboi, its not that type of party. So go ahead and be an internet thug, by all means. Great job. But I'd bet you'll hold that tongue if you crossed me in person. But that's cool. I don't want to even start anything like that. I'm civilized.

[lawston52]

o noo! goodsense is back! here he comes with his 7000 word replys!!


hello goodsense =)


To this dude. Niqqa, you have a picture of another niqqa for your icon. C'mon dude. So is7000 words too much? Obviously, my comprehension runs deep. Yours? You can be effective with few words, but sometimes you have to be detailed.

[lawston52]

But Papoose is str8. there are many people still don't know who he is. D@mn that's a shame.

[GoodSense]

o noo! goodsense is back! here he comes with his 7000 word replys!!


hello goodsense =)

:lol: Stop it man. You got me laughing at work. :lol:

I can't wait for the 2k8!!!!



By the way. No moe 7000 word replays. Nope!
I thought about and realized I wasn't being fair.
With all this new technology there was no need for it anymore.
So made a promise that I would stop and I have.









I mean no sense in holding back, so it is now...
10K word replies. :lol:

[digitalandroid]

2K Football Kombat!

I am just waiting for fatalities to happen.....

[lawston52]

I like that joint with him and Kay-Salam (sp) "To the Rescue"

[thePLAGUE]

I'd have to dissagree with the fact that everybody is more interested in presentation over gameplay...maybe customization?lol....But to be realistic, I think everybody would prefer improved AI over everything else. I thought 2k5 was ALMOST perfect...but of course, there's many things that they can still improve on and include that they haven't already....One BIG point people are missing is that your team and your players are not always going to do what you want them to...THAT'S FOOTBALL...guys blow assignments all the time in real life....so there's no reason not to see this in video games as well....that's just the way it is!!! Collectively though, if you know your football and how to scheme against your opponent, you will probably win a lot of games....Maybe, in the future, if football games get really advanced, they will have different AI settings for rookie, pro, all pro, and legend settings!!!!! So if your not that knowlegable about real football stratagy, you can play with more basic settings, on the other hand if you know a lot you can select all pro or legend...I know they kind of do this already but I'm talking about big differences in game play!!!

My thoughts exactly. If the players did everything u expected them to do all the time, then the game will be ruined. In real life, Qbs gets sacked because Rb/FB tend to block the wrong person...I dont want to see a DB getting beat because he got caught running in circles...I remember seeing safeties literall turn their backs to the football when the ball was in the air... What 2k needs to do is tighten up the A.I and eliminate some of the loose DB animations i.e Dbs running in circles...Also, DL and OL animations could be tightened up a little...All of that goes without saying because 2k is not EA...I will be preparing to go online riiight now, if they didnt shut down the 2k servers....2k5 was that good.

[sportsgeist]

to sportsgeist:
See bruh, I'm not on here to disrespect you.. b/c trust me homeboi, its not that type of party. So go ahead and be an internet thug, by all means. Great job. But I'd bet you'll hold that tongue if you crossed me in person. But that's cool. I don't want to even start anything like that. I'm civilized.

Me be scared? Okay you're right. I'm nothing more than a little punk talking mess on the internet. You caught me. I'm only 6'3" 325lbs.

I wasn't bullying you. I do remember you trying to bully people for not talking about 2Ks gameplay though. In my last post I said the heck with it and told you you were 2 years too late on the subject. If it makes you feel better to think I bullied you and you weren't bullying everybody else. whatever lets you get sleep at night.

[rrobbone]

Lawston,

First of all, thank you for losing the caps, that was getting irritating.

Yes, we do have a very good idea about what real football is.

The problem is: we aren't talking about real football. We are talking about video game football.

You have a valid point about all of us going on and on about the "side dishes" in football games instead of the "meat and potatoes."

However, I have some points for you to consider:

The reason we are talking mostly about peripheral improvements is because most of the regular contributors to these boards have been playing 2K football for quite a while now. Some of us could even tell you the money plays and small blemishes that were in NFL 2K on the Dreamcast, and recite them to you by heart.

We all realize that there are some flaws in the gameplay of 2K5. I will go as far as to say that certain plays in that game are better excecuted by Pop Warner football teams than the pros in the game. There were flaws in gameplay in previous years as well, but we told 2K about the problems through these very forums and they responded the next year more often than not. We expect the problems that we have told them about in the past two years or so will be remedied in 2K8. So, we aren't beating them to death over the subject. Dig through some posts from the past, and you'll find some pretty decent gameplay discussions I think you'd be satisfied with.

Consider this as well:

You said that the game of football is best played from the eyebrows up.

Truer words were never spoken, my friend.

But the game you are talking about was developed for the Playstation 2 and Xbox game systems. Their power is finite.

We're talking about twenty-two separate A.I. routines for gameplay alone, all having to be processed simultaneously and according to very specific football situations, and all taking into account the basic laws of physics. When you throw in the gameplay engine, the graphics and display, the many layers of sound effects, the processing of controller inputs and the animations they result in, and all the processes that the CPU has to handle in just reading and running the disc and that's one hell of a lot of math going on...

And when you also throw in the time and effort to overcome how difficult it is to develop a brand new football game in just a scant few months, year in and year out (and 2K always gave us functional and useful new sh** on top, every year, admit it: they don't just sit on their hands like EA)...

I'd say that what 2K has done to date is fairly impressive and I applaud them for the effort. That sh** is tough to code well. That's why we say Visual Concepts are better programmers with better knowledge of the game than the developers at EA.

I played Mike for a very large high school in Texas and I've done some coaching and coordinating on various levels. I, like you, am a student of the game. I didn't have the talent to take it out of high school like you did, but I promise you: the part above my eyebrows works just fine. Do I cringe at what the game's A.I. does sometimes? Hell yes, I do. You should see how I yell at Madden 07 sometimes.

But I also understand what is going on in that little black box when I turn on the game and that puts things into perspective.

2K is one of, if not the best playing football games ever produced. I'm sorry that your dedicated knowledge of the game we love is getting in the way of your enjoyment of it. I truly am.

That being said, I want the same things you want from the new game. I want a game that finally has A.I. routines that behave in the extremely reactionary way that an individual on the field reacts. I want correct football procedure and I want to have the head games that occur on the field exist in the game as they do in real life. I want a game engine like Euphoria to give us the most accurate depiction of physics and motion. I want smarter DBs and to have the lines be included more accurately.

I feel what you're saying.

I want a perfect football simulation, too. But we aren't going to get perfection. That's the way of beast, due to a lot of factors. It's as simple as that. We've already asked for all of that, Law.

Let me put it this way:

The previous versions of 2K football could've had the most outstanding production values this side of Hollywood. It could've been photorealistic, or it could've had real time announcers watching your online game and commenting live on every play. It could've had Playboy bunny cheerleaders performing a strip tease as a halftime show.

But if the gameplay wasn't there: no one would have played it and fallen in love so hard.

Even you have spoken very passionately about the game. It must have done something to impress you as well.

All Pro Football 2K8's gameplay and A.I. will be great, I have no doubt, but it will not be perfect. Nobody's gameplay is perfect, not even Ray Lewis circa 2005. It will just be video game football. They have to make some of the choices that they make in order to keep the game fun for everyone and appeal to the broadest market so they can sell copies.

I respect your opinion, but if you want total realism, join a league and play or watch the games on the tube.

P.S. It's obvious that you know the game very well and have experienced it on different levels. Some people here just love the game, but aren't students of every little aspect of it. We have a respectful and intelligent dialogue about the game here, and we have fun kicking little ideas around that may seem insignificant to you. Allow people their opinions, even if you disagree. Your first posts were very condescending and at the time you didn't know who you were talking to. I can assure you that there are some folks here who can talk football with you on the same level, if not higher. You are welcome here, because you are a fan of the game like we are and because you are obviously passionate about your video gridiron. But, respectfully I ask you, don't demand that others prove their football knowledge to you. You don't know who anyone is here yet, but if you stick around, it will be obvious to you who knows their sh** and who is just someone who enjoys clicking the sticks every once in awhile. I also respectfully ask you not to browbeat others unless they provoke you and actually deserve it.

Then I'll help you browbeat them. :D

Yes, we do have a very good idea about what real football is.

The problem is: we aren't talking about real football.

[sportsgeist]

I'll co-sign on that last post

[NFL2K]

Great post rob :thumbsup:

[lawston52]

TO RROBBONE:

I thank you for the in depth reply. See, I think people don't understand the love I have for 2k. I just played Madden 07 (15 Feb 07) and again... it sux, so just like Prince Hakeem (Coming To America) "I denounce my thrown". I will not play madden 07 ever again.

Back to the scheduled program...

I do appreciate not only your dedication and love for the game of football., and being able to articulate that on "paper". See what I was not doing was downing 2k and their innovative skills. Have I gon through previous post about possible gameplay changes... Naw, but I have read almost all the post for AP2k8 (before I started this post), and to that point, there were only few gameplay mentions, but hella "side dishes", as someone said before.

But all in all thanks for your response. See some people on here may think talking "gansta" on the internet is hot. And maybe some of them may have thought that about me, but really, I'm just asking the people that like gameplay... Let's start mention it.

preciate it bruh.

[rrobbone]

Agreed,

I have gone back and read some of the posts you made before this thread and I look forward to more of your ideas and hearing your feedback on some of mine.

Coming to America: I love that flick!

Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.

Son?

Yes?

If you want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.

Yes.

[lawston52]

Agreed,

Oh sir, the Giants of New York took on the Packers of Green Bay. And in the end, the Giants triumphed by kicking an oblong ball made of pigskin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.

Son?

Yes?

If you want to keep working here, stay off the drugs.

Yes.

Dawg, I was like what is this guy talking about... but I got ya. I guess that's how "James Evans" felt when he heard it in the movie too!

[lawston52]

But I have a lot of ideas for a few games. I especially want to talk with someone about a script I have for a "2k" boxing game.. It would be better than fight night simply b/c 2k (hopefully) would have an interest.

Oh by the way, I was asked by EA 3 yrs ago to come to Maitland, FL and work for them. But I declined. Swear to GOD. (and you know black people don't be swearing to GOD unless its true). LOL.

[lawston52]

When I think of it, when they asked me why do I like 2k better, its funny how some of those things are now on madden.

[sportsgeist]

Lawston52 You assumed the wrong thing about us in these forums. Its just like they said about Tim Hardaway this morning on ESPN radio. Most people realize he has his own opinion but just be ready for the repercussions. Don't call us idiots and expect us to fold like a deck of cards. You barked first and when we barked back now we're gangstas and internet thugs. Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

You really need to read your first 5 or 6 posts so you can see how thuggish and Gangsta you were. You had 7 or 8 pages of people being nice to you and telling you in a round about way to read old posts. Even after you posted with ALL CAPS. Unfortunately for you all the gameplay talk is in other older forums. This 2K8 forum is only like a week old. You needed to comb the "NFL Football 2Kx General Discussion" forums. You can also try Operation sports forums.

To answer your questions. The D-line has force because the safeties cover deep in cover 2 and the linebackers cover underneath. In cover 2 the D-line has to force QBs into mistakes. Fill responsibility always goes to the linebackers then safeties. Cover 6 must be something you made up or something only your team used.

[sportsgeist]

(and you know black people don't be swearing to GOD unless its true). LOL.

Speak for yourself