Could someone explain the Anti-Madden position.

[wideright]

I will admit, I have usually bought Madden. I get annoyed with certain features, but mostly it seems adequate as an NFL simulation and mediocre when I want to create custom leagues.

When I think of it's negatives, I think of ...

1. Despite sliders I always end up #1-2 in run defense, #1-2 in passing offense, high
in INTs, low in sacks allowed, and somewhere around 11-5 or 12-4. This bugs me.

2. Some games the AI just takes over and says "You cannot win." and I throw 6 INTs
and give up 2 fumbles and lose 45-3, eventhough I am doing the same things I
do the three weeks before and after when I win every game 31-13 or 27-14.

3. I throw a lot of Ints and some running plays just don't work more than 1 in 10 times.


Is there more that the 2k series got right? What makes the gameplay better?

When I saw 2k8 was coming out, I was immediately excited about customization because I like the idea of recreating the USFL or my fantasy league, and not because Madden was unplayable.

What makes Madden so inferior to 2k?

[fatman]

Madden is like a corporate band, they try to quckly please the masses and pay attention to pop-culture. The depth of madden is very limited. Don't you agree that every game you play in madden there are too many "game breaker's" In one game you'll get 2 80 yard td passes, and 2 or 3 70 yard run td play's. Last season I think Lavernius Coles caught a 43 yard catch and run play - and that was the largest reception of his carreer! Madden doesn't simulate or even feel like NFL football, It's on crack - it's like playing a baseball game and having a player hit 400 homer's. I want to feel like I set up the big play, and that it's more of a unique occurance...why run a sweep if i can just bomb it 80 yards every possession??? Madden also has animation problems that should be obvious, it seems they transition from one state to another immediately. example; someone is running across the field and jumps for an interception attempt. In madden the player moves up in the air at supersonic speed - when a person jumps they should bend their knees and speed upwards at a pace that gets slower and slower until they reach their apex of the jump, and decend naturally. In madden it's from the groud to apex almost immediately, catch, back to ground instantly. Nothing is smooth, nothing feels right.

[GhostRider]

Quite simply, the programmers of Madden are lazy.John Madden Football was the best...in 1995.I don't think they have had the best Football game of any year since then, and yet their sales have continued to grow.

This is mainly due to their marketing strategy, and the sheeple who are easily hooked in by such things.

It is not that it is a TERRIBLE game...just very mediocre, like most things EA produces.They are a great example of why huge corporations can be a bad thing for the consumer.

[BeThatMan]

Biggest Problem with Madden is Madden, what a moron!

[BigDRunnin]

I will say that Madden 05 was a pretty solid game (2k5 was vastly superior). Since 05 it has fallen in stock dramatically. I wont add on to what everyone is saying because they got most of it. Its not a realistic game, and should in no way represent the next gen.

Ill just use an example. On saint pattys day, I was like dude lets play some 2k5, my friend was like awesome. We played two games. I won the first one 20-17 and the second game I won 10-7. The game is great, and very realistic. I think i had priest holmes run for 104 yards on 22 attempts. Yaddy Yadda, it was very fullfilling. Whenever I play madden, i generally score 30-40 points a game. 2k, just does everything right. THe presentation is off the wall, graphically it is great, and the animations were superb.

I dont need the NFL to play a good game of football. I will be just fine with having "t.its Mcgee" as my starting quarterback. Do I hate madden...just the corporate side, they shouldnt have bought the license.

[Drunknfury xbgl]

I have to agree with all the statements made so far. Its really hard too, when you try to explain this to your friends who like madden, and they dont understand. Its like people accept the life of mediocrty

[Akuma2000]

I will say that Madden 05 was a pretty solid game (2k5 was vastly superior). Since 05 it has fallen in stock dramatically. I wont add on to what everyone is saying because they got most of it. Its not a realistic game, and should in no way represent the next gen.

Ill just use an example. On saint pattys day, I was like dude lets play some 2k5, my friend was like awesome. We played two games. I won the first one 20-17 and the second game I won 10-7. The game is great, and very realistic. I think i had priest holmes run for 104 yards on 22 attempts. Yaddy Yadda, it was very fullfilling. Whenever I play madden, i generally score 30-40 points a game. 2k, just does everything right. THe presentation is off the wall, graphically it is great, and the animations were superb.

I dont need the NFL to play a good game of football. I will be just fine with having "t.its Mcgee" as my starting quarterback. Do I hate madden...just the corporate side, they shouldnt have bought the license.

That's a major reason why 2K football is superior to madden, the game is balanced and the final scores are more realistic (you can't throw bombs all game like you can in madden etc....).

Another thing i don't like is when your on defense and when trying to catch up to a wr/rb and you switch players they slow wayyyyy down while the offensive player keeps on chucking away.....what the hell is that ???

Thank god 2K5 isn't like that, when you switch defenders nobody slows down.......that's how its supposed to be.

[Spatta04]

I hate madden and EA for there servers, they dont run through XBOX Live. There servers are crappy. And I can't even count how many times on madden i had lost connection to server error happen. I hate it I dont touch it! The last few times I had good games online like 28-24 4th quarter and boom game lost. F U EA

[GoodSense]

I will admit, I have usually bought Madden. I get annoyed with certain features, but mostly it seems adequate as an NFL simulation and mediocre when I want to create custom leagues.

When I think of it's negatives, I think of ...

1. Despite sliders I always end up #1-2 in run defense, #1-2 in passing offense, high
in INTs, low in sacks allowed, and somewhere around 11-5 or 12-4. This bugs me.

2. Some games the AI just takes over and says "You cannot win." and I throw 6 INTs
and give up 2 fumbles and lose 45-3, eventhough I am doing the same things I
do the three weeks before and after when I win every game 31-13 or 27-14.

3. I throw a lot of Ints and some running plays just don't work more than 1 in 10 times.


Is there more that the 2k series got right? What makes the gameplay better?

When I saw 2k8 was coming out, I was immediately excited about customization because I like the idea of recreating the USFL or my fantasy league, and not because Madden was unplayable.

What makes Madden so inferior to 2k?

Your negatives summed it up. Especially about the AI just taking over on some games.
And the thing is it doesn't matter what you do. In those games you get the crazy fumbles, crazy numerous dropped passes or superman batted down passes while being beat by 5-10 yds, and lets not forget the dumb AI for your defense because it will cause really stupid jumps by DB's and allow the pass to be thrown over them.

[GoodSense]

Madden is like a corporate band, they try to quckly please the masses and pay attention to pop-culture. The depth of madden is very limited. Don't you agree that every game you play in madden there are too many "game breaker's" In one game you'll get 2 80 yard td passes, and 2 or 3 70 yard run td play's. Last season I think Lavernius Coles caught a 43 yard catch and run play - and that was the largest reception of his carreer! Madden doesn't simulate or even feel like NFL football, It's on crack - it's like playing a baseball game and having a player hit 400 homer's. I want to feel like I set up the big play, and that it's more of a unique occurance...why run a sweep if i can just bomb it 80 yards every possession??? Madden also has animation problems that should be obvious, it seems they transition from one state to another immediately. example; someone is running across the field and jumps for an interception attempt. In madden the player moves up in the air at supersonic speed - when a person jumps they should bend their knees and speed upwards at a pace that gets slower and slower until they reach their apex of the jump, and decend naturally. In madden it's from the groud to apex almost immediately, catch, back to ground instantly. Nothing is smooth, nothing feels right.


You noticed that too!!!!
Especially the LB's manning the middle of the field or even a WR running an out.
The LB's suddenly get this Atom Ant boost of speed that otherwise would not happen.

I don't mind making bad decisions and living with it, but you can tell that isn't the case.
And I hate taking control because like you said the player automatically slows down.

I don't like the GHOSTING that takes place with Maddens animations either.

I also don't like how a player doesn't have to accelerate again to get back up to speed if he is blocked or stopped for some reason. It appears that attribute is only good during the hike, but is not used when the player has been slowed down.



One improvement I would like to see in 2k8 though would be a little better dive.
The dive looks like the player doesn't reach his full stretch and is doing some type of shoulder thingy. I know it is just the animation for clutching a player, but if he is going to come up empty handed then he should be stretched out. I think they just had limited animations then, but this time will have more.

I'm just glad to see others seeing some of the same things I noticed with Madden.
It feeds off the arcade style and kids who can't wait to show off the BIG HIT.
This is why that animation is over used in Madden.

[cracka jac]

madden refuses to make any real innovation. All they add is "makeup" to make the game look and sound better to the consumer. but underneath all the makeup is the same game they have been releasing since 2004, the same ugly fat pig that really does nothing for you except make you want to vomit

[georgerogersheisman38]

I have an example that pretty much sums up the difference between 2k and madden. In madden about any where from 0-3 times a game i will do an impact stick move and the player will fumble even though he still broke the tackle, i could see how this may happen like once every 3 weeks in the nfl but up to 3 times a game is highly unlikely. So usually when this happens i take a look at the replay to see that the ball just dropped straight out of the players hands, no strip, no nothing just straight down. Well in 2k a fumble happened that bothered me, on a punt my returner got the punt and was heading up field. He got tackled low and not very hard by one of the cover men, well he fumbled and i didnt understand why, so i looked at the replay and saw that the the tacklers helmet hit the football popping it out in a realistic fashion.

[sportsgeist]

Quite simply, the programmers of Madden are lazy.John Madden Football was the best...in 1995.I don't think they have had the best Football game of any year since then, and yet their sales have continued to grow.

This is mainly due to their marketing strategy, and the sheeple who are easily hooked in by such things.

It is not that it is a TERRIBLE game...just very mediocre, like most things EA produces.They are a great example of why huge corporations can be a bad thing for the consumer.

Funny you should say that. Thats when VC stop making Madden and left EA.

[sportsgeist]

2K5 had its issues but for one thing it was more realistic compared to Madden and still is.

If a Madden fan played 2K5 long enough they could tell the difference in the realism between the 2 games. Some would play both or some would go back to their safe blanket and some would make the switch and never go back. I made the switch back on 9/9/1999. I gave Madden another shot when I bought my 360. I feel like I dropped my soap in the shower and woke up a week later.

[MorningGlory]

Madden is terrible. It hasn't been innovative in quite a few years. Maddes WAS a great game. It isn't anymore. But people just can't see it. Older people who grew up with the series aren't going to try anything else because they won't care to. They'll think they have the better product. The more recent fans of Madden/EA are just too stubborn to see. They won't want to take the time and learn the new controls to give 2K a chance.

[Jarvis Tims]

LOL I can go back futher when Dreamcast came out, I won my Dreamcast In 2000, at a graduation party. 2K series was even superior then, I mean the start of 2K changed my gaming then. Of course you had your Playstation owners who only played EA, so I was stuck playing by myself. When 2K5 released I got 5 of my friends alone to buy a XBOX and switch from Madden to 2K5. Put it this way, would you dare play Madden on one system 2 on 2? We played 2K5 2 0n 2, repeadetly , I havent played that way since 2K5. I have had to settle since 2K5 and since I now on a 360. I dont even own a copy of Madden,(traded it in after 3 mths. TRASH) Stuck on NBA 2K7 basketball. Waiting on 2K8 Football

[fatman]

Madden is terrible. It hasn't been innovative in quite a few years. Maddes WAS a great game. It isn't anymore. But people just can't see it. Older people who grew up with the series aren't going to try anything else because they won't care to. They'll think they have the better product. The more recent fans of Madden/EA are just too stubborn to see. They won't want to take the time and learn the new controls to give 2K a chance.

Yeah I agree, like if Madden was way better than APF2K8 (which i highly doubt because of the overall feel of a game) I would go with Madden. I have Madden 07 right now, I keep forgetting to post it on craigslist along with 2 other games to see if i can get more than trade in value. If the games were the same fun value i'd go with 2k. and obviously I think 2k will be alot better and in that case I'd go with APF - WHO THE H.E.LL wouldn't???...I'll tell you who, hardcore Madden fans because they don't even care what is better, they just want EA to 'win'. They like being on a 'winning side' - it's so rediculous it makes me hate society a bit.

The fact is Madden for the past few years has been very mediocre, they put on an attitude that they're really innovative, but it's nothing new and blows my mind how people buy into it. Ghostrider is right, it's not horrible the way bomberman act zero is horrible, i'd rather have EA's game, like Madden 07 i give a 6.0 out of ten - but this is the great game of football, and I want to be playing at LEAST an 8/10. I like the idea of superstar gameplay, but it could have been better, and madden local tournament are a great idea, and i've played in one and won a real NFL football ;)

In the end though my one madden purchase in the past seven years was just due to a loss of options and hope that a better quality product would come around. I know before i said that if madden was way better i'd go with it, but this time i won't have time to find out because i'll be too excited about APF and step on people's faces to get a copy the second it comes out. just kidding, but nott really ;)

[sleepytercel]

First, I don't care if anyone agrees, but Montana NFL94 was leaps ahead of Madden 05 (While Madden 05 was developed by Visual Concepts). The game had everything. Play by play announcing, wrap tackles (first 16 bit football game where players didn't collide and simply fall down), jukes and spins that actually worked, multiple playing angles to play from, and weather effects. I can't believe so many people credit 16 bit Madden as if it was the greatest of all-time. Sega had one of the best running football series (which EA helped start off), and NFL94 was the definite peak of 16 bit football.

I'll sum up real quick why I believe Madden is inferior, well to me anyway. I can play 3 games of Madden and pretty much see and hear everything that is offered in the gameplay engine. That includes all animation, cut-scenes, replays and the play by play. However, after 3 years of 2K5 (we'll say 200-300 games), I will still see new animations, cutscenes, and hear new lines in the play by play. There's so much content in the gameplay engine that it keeps you on your toes. The excitement of hearing that new line or seeing that new animation, when you think you've seen it all, keeps the replayability factor at its peak. You won't get that with Madden.

[Reed#20]

I don't hate Madden because I understand it and realize that it is not what I need to look for if I want a simulation experience. I understand that to be really great at madden you need to be more of a tournament style player, NOT a simulation style player. That's why, however, I have always preferred 2k over it because I felt 2k leaned more to X's and O's style football, where as Madden success leans more toward getting your player to do this animation that nobody can stop or some other stuff that is just not football related.

That's why the last eight or so years their games have been filled with jetpack animations, rocket catching, bullet streak, super DB swat, super bump and run where your guy can't even get off the line. Tourny players take these things and master them the only people who can CONTAIN it is other tourney players. In the end if you are not a tourney player you will get your ***** handed to you on Madden by a tourney player. And the tourney players are NOT trying to play X's and O's football. They are trying to win the tournment with WHAT WORKS in Madden. Again I don't hate Madden. I just understand from the multiplayer online experience the X's and O's of the game are way off. The physics are off ect.

On the flip side, I'm not saying 2k did those things or WILL do those things perfectly, but I do believe that they were alot closer than EA was and is now.

[rrobbone]

Oh, my friend wideright... (you must be a Cowboys fan, huh?)

You opened up a big can o' worms on this little issue. If you're up for a little reading, I posted a long rant back in January which explains my every little complaint about the Madden series of late.

I didn't used to hate Madden, in fact I loved the game until it became apparent that the people at EA who were as in love with the game of football as I am left to form Visual Concepts. EA managed to release a decent game in 2005 and have been on a steady downward slide ever since.

So, in a fit of rage I typed up a long laundry list of complaints to let EA know that I was not happy with thier efforts.

It's posted here, http://2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104223

It's long, but it covers most of the serious and most often repeated complaints most of us have about these later versions of Madden.

Keep in mind: I wrote it in January and some things have happened since then.

Things like: we got word that the 2K series was returning.

Madden is a good game. But it used to be great. It could potentially be incredible.

If EA stopped counting money for five minutes to listen to it's consumers.

[wideright]

Actually I am a masochistic Bills fan. See my PS below for a funny story about this.

I now see that my complaints about Madden are what most people complain about. I guess I always just played Madden because I would only buy 1 title and Madden always seemed to have decent gameplay and a better team customization program. I used to play a PC game called FootballPro and loved the customization, but Madden seemed to do better than the 2k series for that. Perhaps I just missed out on gameplay because of it.

I agree the AI cheese is really irritating to me, as are the superjumps and the suck-in blocking. I will definitely check out 2k8 to see if gameplay is better (I expect) and customization is wider (my ideal combo).


So, my PS: A friend of mine called me back when there were rumors the Bills were going to trade McGahee to the NYG. He is a G-men fan and wanted to know what I thought the Bills would ask for in return.

I responded, The Bills would be willing to trade McGahee to NY if they were willing to admit that the kick at the end of SB XXV went 2 feet further left than the video showed. We could trade for the last 1 ft, 3 inches later. But at least this way someday the Bills could win SuperBowl XXV. Since it doesn't look like they will get back anytime soon, this is our best chance.

[rrobbone]

You can do that??

Maybe when the Titans had that "fire sale" a couple of years ago they should have sent some players to the Rams in exchange for about 37 extra inches on the last play of Super Bowl XXXIV.

I wonder if they'd have taken Drew Bennett for that extra yard....

Oh, what might've been.

BTW, I have forgiven Frank Reich by now.

Really...

I have.

I don't even prank call his house anymore.

Well, one a year maybe.