EASY WAY FOR ALLPRO TO BECOME BIGGER THAN MADDEN [Archive]

allpro-anticipation

April 3rd, 2007, 10:38 AM

Lets just talk about the game in here.................

One idea i though would be great for the game, what the game is based around internet play and instead of 11 man teams the teams consist of of 22 players a team. So each individual has a specific duty just like if they were actually on a team. So for instance a player that plays safety only is capable of watching the game while the offense was on the field. So when we join a team instead of made up players you put your own information on the players profile and jersey. So it puts you more into the game. I was also thinking that a team could also consist of those individuals that never really got into the aspect of playing football but more into the strategy concept of playing. Eventually maybe 2k can establish a league where there is a grand prize for the winner, and possibly find comglomerates, like reebok, Walmart, Target and so forth that are willing to sponser a team make the decisions for coaching and signing players based on how well they perform. And if you are a player that can really make a difference like a quarterback that has 20 TD's and 2 INT's when signed to a companies team you can earn money for consistancy or just simply because you are a top prospect.

2k could be the first game to allow an individual to actually join a team and earn a living based on your performance

Please share ideas..........

allpro-anticipation

April 3rd, 2007, 10:39 AM

and when i was regarding to those that are more into the aspect of strategy each team can also consist of a coach. That is a primary decision maker

Drunknfury xbgl

April 3rd, 2007, 10:50 AM

I can see the pros to that. I stated in my "Madden Beware" post, how that might, or might not work.

I remember signing up for a beta testing, for a baseball game, that wanted to do this. Everyone would have an individual player. Heck, 2k could go one step above this. They could have leagues where you had to build your individual player up, and have GM's for teams. Thats if 2k wanted to get that indepth with the idea.

Heres an idea. What about more and better cut scenese. When I play, I want to say d@mn, they just viewed the waterboy, filling up gatorade cups. I like the presentation alot. I would love to see them view a RB that is sitting on the bench, becaus ethe defense is trying to hold a stand. I would love to see the halftime show like before. I think that one huge thing 2k had over madden was presentation.

Gameplay. I want to see better catches, and better animation. I dont want my guy feeling like he is on ice skates. I want to be able to smack someone on defense and watch the ball flop out. I want realistic scores. 21-14, 31-28, ect.

I want mini games, that are like mini camp. I know madden does this, but bring back the old QB club mini games. They could really expand on this.

allpro-anticipation

April 3rd, 2007, 11:10 AM

And that is definatly a very important aspect, the view. Because it is very easy to reflect back at how horrible the MADDEN SUPERTAR view is, but we must also remember how on point the 2k FIRST PERSON VIEW WORKED to an extent. Now obviously it would need some tweeking primarily no matter where you are at when the ball is released the camera automatically directs itself to a position where both you and the ball are in view/ or it could go directly to a split screen where if you are a CB you decide if you are gonig to play the ball or the reciever. GIVES OPTION. IT is definatly not hard to get all others follow their responsibilites primarily because instead of a playbook being shown the scrren can show as it does when you are at the line and hold the R2 button or Right Trigger, however it would be for each position INCLUDING the OL or DL and that could happen while the play is being chose or even after the play is chose there could be a 5 second delay before you break the huddle that shows on your screen only what your responsibility is. Of course players are going to make mistakes that is a fact and even if its a situation where one player is always giving up the long ball or a QB is constantly throwing INT's. He can then be pulled from the game by a coach or whoever. You see if they take this game beyond the game aspect and aproach it with an attitude where they can revolutionize the Sports gaming industry then you can literally have a team that is made up of 22+ players including back ups. However all the players on the team are great players maybe some play individual tournaments on their own time. Just like how people do when playing in a 3 on 3 basketball tournament, they are not completely dedicated to that tournament they have other stuff they do as well. But back to my earlier point it could be set up where even the backups get paid something like $200 week when they first start off and as they progress or become starters for the team you make more $.

I know right now that sounds far fetched but it is very possible, if you look at the top gamers when it comes to those LAN tournaments these boys and men are making near 200,000 a tournament so it is very possible for something like this to work.

feedback.........

allpro-anticipation

April 3rd, 2007, 11:12 AM

Allow me to go one step further for you on the MADDEN BEWARE where are our discussion primairly began some had metioned how could a team keep the players so into the game that they wouldnt quit. Heres my reply

"That is exactly my point,
We are all thinking of this online opportunity in terms of a game.

But, what if it could become more than a game,
What if you actually belonged to a Sponsored team with a payroll. This is the direction gaming is heading in. Making careers out of gaming, it has already begun with shooting games and madden and so forth. But has never been done on a TEAM SPORT LEVEL.

Picture This;
Say you (your name here) and your favorite position to play is (position here), now with 11v11 not only do you play your favorite position but you also must contribute on the other side of the ball as well regardless if you prefer or not. NOW say you belong to a 22+ team (COACH or whatever) and you have ONE responsibility just like being part of a real team (minus the LONG PRACTICES and YOU DONT HAVE TO LEAVE HOME). Once again my whole idea is based on a team consisting of Offense and Defense where you are in control of that one position. I GAURENTEE there are plenty of former football players and non former football players to fill up 100+ teams. Also Imagine having one of the biggest online SPORTS tourmants to ever be held ONLINE. COMPLETE once again with a team SPONSOR that can easily be influenced by 2k. So your name would be on the jersey of your player along with your desired number and looks however you would dress your player, bio etc. And you belong to A BLUE AND WHITE TEAM with the SEARS logo on the side of the helmet. NOT only that but you are one of the top players in the league art your position and are PAID to take your team to the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME that not only GIVES the company at the least NATIONWIDE GAMING ADVERTISEMENT but also PUTS 2k SPORTS BACK WHERE IT LEFT OFF, WITH THE MOST INOVATIVE FEATURES EVER INTRODUCED INTO GAMING.

Imma gonna be the first to say it, I CANT STAND OFFENSE. I love to play defense, not only that I love to play Safety. Reason being, for me anyway, I played Safety in H.S. Now you can think I am a pathetic wanna be football player reliving his football days. HOWEVER for me its just playing a position I know how to play precisely, and when I do play 2k5 that is the only position I start the play off with because I know what responsibilites I have in certain situations even if the computer doesnt. Now I'm not here to brag about what I know, just inform those that dont see the WHOLE PICTURE that this could be a reality, not just for the future but it could be a reality TODAY.All it takes is 2k understanding the reality of this and making steps to implement this into the game.

IN MY OPINION this would be the best way to present the game without having the NFL license. IF you belonged to a team that wasnt necessarily a made up team in the sense that it had real football players (YOU) and even had real companies sponsoring the team for their own purposes. Just like those recreation teams at the YMCA, except you dont have to go out or drive to a game. If this happened 2 impotant issues would occur

1. FOOTBALL GAMES WOULD NEVER BE THE SAME
2. 2K would never again need the NFL logo.
3. Not to forget to mention if something like this did happen (which is possible) you could be making a living off playing football, just not as much or in the same way the pros do.
4. Not only that but the influence of having ones business represented in a video game is far greater than the WORK SOFTBALL TEAM, and would definatly benefit a company (SMALL OR BIG) rather or not they win the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. MEaning recruiting companies on 2k side wouldnt be as difficult as you might think.

feedback.........

krunchybox

April 3rd, 2007, 02:44 PM

Drunknfury xbgl

April 3rd, 2007, 02:51 PM

You know you could always go with a MMORPG theme. Make a player and take him into a season with like 4-500 players, competing to be in the big times. Id love that.

allpro-anticipation

April 3rd, 2007, 04:14 PM

The idea is great, I had thought up of that three years ago and even posted it on the Madden boards. The only problem with it is coordinating everyone's schedules to play. If people are not getting real money so they can do this as a job, then they will have to fit it into their schedules as they see fit. You may have a casual gamer who would get on a team, but he can only play for an hour or two a week. That kind of ruins it for everyone. Coordinating 22 schedules is easier but still near impossible than coordinating 44 schedules. Even if it works the first week or two, to keep it going week after week would be difficult.

What if there is a player on a team that is a cheater or exploiter? Then what? How does that get handled? Kick him off, sure, but then you're short a guy.

The idea is great, but to actually make it work is never going to get farther than this thread.

And you know that seems to be the theme when it comes to this sort of senario. Of course currently that is all that it is a scenario. However, primarily the game can be used for whatever you would like to use it for. For isntance, if your a casual gamer and all you do is play one on one over the internet or offline that is fine. The game can still implement this and at the same time just like it currently ranks individual players and makes it capable to play online, the game can also consist of muliplayer functions via the internet. As far as a player being an exploiter, the only explotation that will occur would be that of the opposing individual that allows himself to be exploited. If 2k would design a leauge where YOU JOIN A TEAM like in real life, then maybe you have more than just 22 players on a team, possibly backups where all they do is watch until the coach says otherwise. If it would be designed and SPONSORED then the individual playing backup on WALMART's team mignt be more willing to withstand just watching a five minute quarter game to earn his $200 dollars (or however much is possible based on the situation) or so each week. Not only that say if a team has a great 2nd quarterback but his RB (which is a real person) cant gain a yard. Trades can be implemented by whoever is in charge of the team.

I did state before when asked the same question, this would be a feature for more than jsut the casual gamer. This would be a feature for those that see the direction videogames are heading, whether you are a football fan or not. It is very likely soon that a feature like this will arrive where you can join a SPONSORED team and get paid for playing. I also did state as well in on the same idea verses actually qualifiying to even join the tournament or 10 seeason games + playoffs (My preference would be NCAA Baksetball type playoffs- many different conferences qualifying for one goal)

By that being so, the online gaming tournament that i am referring to could be advertised as a supply and demand. The team demands good players, WE supply the players. Now I stated before that in order to join the league you would have to have something like 2 online seasons uder your belt, Kind of like how the Olympics have trials to see who get to compete. Within those tow seasons are your complete stats, tackles, completions, touchdowns, broken tackles and so forth, EVEN including a counter or percentage displayed of how many times you didnt finish a game which also plays into the leagues decision making of signing you to their team. It could even be based on your ranking on 2k football page. I feel if you really know a position OL DL CB QB whatever and knowing that you could earn a living playing that position could really contribute into the feeling of commitment. Then when you finish your two seasons or whateer you submit your stats to the teams coach or whoever along with your desired position. So if your USER STATS say you threw 100 passes and you the USER caught 95 of them (NOT THE COMPUTER) then maybe you are a good fit for the team's wide reciever.

Jarvis Tims

April 3rd, 2007, 09:36 PM

Very interesting !!! Hopefully this idea will actually become a reality in the near future , like in the next 2 years. Its going to happen, we just dont know when.

bigrob210

April 3rd, 2007, 11:52 PM

Its interesting, and the way you put it it could certainly work. I wonder if it would be difficult to find people who wanted to play offensive line.

wangjaz

April 4th, 2007, 04:36 AM

interesting... with potential...

but i could see the problem where 80% of the ppl would just want to play the QB, RB, LB etc
ppl who would actually just play an O-lineman for example, would be very hard to find. especially if that's all he gonna do for weeks and months.
i mean, i wouldn't mind playing an O-line or D-line guy once in a while, but i can't see myself doing it in multiple games.

hmmm... my suggestion to the schedule conflicts, and missing players would be, if someone can't make it on schedule, or someone suddenly has a heart attack mid-game :P , the AI just kicks in for that player.
i could see the AI playing all the O-line all the time.

also, to give ppl variety, maybe a cycling method. like every series or quarters, players get to change positions.
like i would play DB, then some QB, then some O-line, then some LB etc

GhostRider

April 4th, 2007, 08:17 AM

Its interesting, and the way you put it it could certainly work. I wonder if it would be difficult to find people who wanted to play offensive line.

There simply aren't enough people who would play O-Line, although you could keep the option open.

The only real way to do it is to ALLOW for 11 vs 11, but instead have it built more for 3vs3, 4vs4, 5 vs 5,etc,etc.Players could be 'locked' into a certain position...but with the option to change positions...say if a couple of guys wanted to switch to O-Line for a short yardage or goal line play...or as a misdirection move to throw off the D on a pass play.

There is a baseball game that has 9vs 9 capability that just came out..but you only NEED 3 players on a team to make it work.

NBA2k7 had 5vs 5 for PS3..I hope they will have this for 360 next year.Basketball is probably the best game(along with Hockey) for multi player gaming because of the nature of those sports.

Certainly Football could be fun, but I think the nature of that game makes it a little more involved for the defensive than offensive players.

allpro-anticipation

April 4th, 2007, 08:47 AM

There simply aren't enough people who would play O-Line, although you could keep the option open.

The only real way to do it is to ALLOW for 11 vs 11, but instead have it built more for 3vs3, 4vs4, 5 vs 5,etc,etc.Players could be 'locked' into a certain position...but with the option to change positions...say if a couple of guys wanted to switch to O-Line for a short yardage or goal line play...or as a misdirection move to throw off the D on a pass play.

There is a baseball game that has 9vs 9 capability that just came out..but you only NEED 3 players on a team to make it work.

NBA2k7 had 5vs 5 for PS3..I hope they will have this for 360 next year.Basketball is probably the best game(along with Hockey) for multi player gaming because of the nature of those sports.

Certainly Football could be fun, but I think the nature of that game makes it a little more involved for the defensive than offensive players.

You make a great point, however allow me to put more emphasis on what what you and I are both talking about.

Allow me to demonstrate, Within Madden, which although most of us hate the game we are still very conscience of what features due in part to the games huge success. Now although 2k currently has no where near the same capacity of fan base, the process of finding individuals that really take just football serious regardless of the videgame aspect would not be difficult. For instance, with Madden the game sold some 300 Million copies or so and reguraly in discussion with how the game plays i constantluy hear individuals talking about the lead blocking control. Although, you can switch back to the running back after making a big block regardless if that person does or not is not the case. Alot of individuals just simply like the fun factor of laying some one on there back whether it is one time or many. Granted their will be some who become bored with the position however in that case yes there can be intense AI factored into the situation if that individual decides no longer to show for games. But back to my earlier point there are alot of individuals that just like blocking, because it is something they have done before on a team or they know how important the position is. Example; Blocking a DL or LB is alot like a matchup in FIght Night it is all back and forth.

To intensify the experience it could be taken a step further where coach of what ever sponsored team you play for sends you a playbook at the beginning of the week via email or 2k user page. Now obviously there is alot that could go on with that as well, people not practicing, knowing their role, but as long as you get the jest of what to do, during a game the play should be visible to everyone on Offense or Defense. So more is put into the responsibility and experience one must have to play the position. And if your team has players that cant block well than maybe your team switches to a zone block, meaning your responibilities change almost every play. JUST A COUPLE IDEAS SO THOSE OF US WHO DONT LIKE TO PLAY OL UNDERSTAND THAT TO SOME IT IS OR COULD BE ENTERTAINING.

As well I think the reason we all play this game is for the realism. And there are som many of us that would love to get back on the field (pee wee, H.S., College etc) I think just the aspect of being a part of a team again and feeling closer to what used to be could alone make some one step back into a position they are used to, OL. And like I said if it could be organized and sponsored by Big Companies that also could be a way for some one to feel committed, you dont play? We dont pay.

Feedback

ewaldbrady

April 4th, 2007, 01:58 PM

Well I think 11v11 is a little more realistic goal for a few reasons. First, getting schedules to work out is much easier with half the people. (I have another idea on scheduling which I will address later.) Secondly, People are going to be more willing to play both sides of the ball. You stay interested, plus you know people would start dropping off if say the defense is great but the offense can't put up points. Whereas if I'm on both sides I can't assign blame without putting some on myself. Thirdly, you won't have the same problems with people not wanting to play positions. I'd have no problem playing O-Line as long as I got to play D-End or something like that half the game. Now, potential for greater than 11v11 should be there, but I think that organization for this would be easier planning on needing 11.

As for Scheduling, one league may not work out. Or at least have VERY seperate divisions within it, such as colleges do with intramural sports. Playing flag football I was in the Wednesday night division. So teams would sign up based upon their availability. Lobbies could exist where teams can form, etc. If a playoff system is implemented, then you would find some trouble, but I'd find it unlikely that a group of 11 guys who committed to a full season of a game as involved as this, couldnt get some time off in their lives on another night of the week or something.

As for corporate sponsorship and real money...... I don't see this happening ANYTIME soon, not on a widespread XBOX Live form anyways. However, you could replace the money with marketplace points or something similar. I don't know if anyone else has ever done a madden sim league (kinda role playing, but you get drafted onto a team and get points for performance or whatever. Something along those lines could work though. Teams could be run by a player/manager who would be in charge of trades and whatnot. Or to make that more objective a person could be limited so they couldnt manage in a league they played as a player in. But that is deep logistics if this ever even was thought about down the road. But the GM should have a set number of whatever points they choose to use (possibly 2k could create like 2k points, enough of which would be good for maybe a free game or something. There is a lot of potential there where the points could be used to improve your player as well (although this leads to the most skilled guys having the players with best stats... which could be a problem). But I think coming up with a system of points (whether microsoft or 2k or whatever) is more realistic in the near future. I think people would pay to play these as well, I mean people pay huge money to play fantasy baseball, I'm sure you could charge for these leagues, but I'd suggest including one pass within the cost of game..... (this would be a huge boon since I'd expect a large number of people who buy the game wouldn't utilize this feature so it'd be bonus profit).

Anyways, please offer some feedback.

allpro-anticipation

April 9th, 2007, 09:33 AM

First off I think what we need as a 2k community is to realize the drastic steps that have been made in the last 8 years in videogaming. Back then not only where the games absolete (spelling?) but the way we played them was as well. Who would have ever thought you would be able to play someone in another country much less across the states. That being said there really hasnt been many other big moves online in the past 7 years, and a drastic change is well overdue. We have to realize this is the next step; making a career off of winning videogames, literally. In reply to 11 v 11 being a more realistic figure, think of it this way. Yes, there are some of us that tend to lose interest if our team is losing or if we are not always in the action. Im not referring to those that would compete in an online SPONSORED franchise for the fun of it. I am refferring to those that see how big this could get (not only for 2k but for videogaming as well) if they just spent 45 minutes in an online game (5 min qtr) and made say $250 dollars rather or not they spent alot of time on the field. It's simple and I personally do not know many peopple that would turn down and extra $1000 a month if all they had to do was sit in front of the tv and watch or play a football game once a week.

As far as the scheduling goes, it could be set up on every sunday, just like a real live league, except there are no commercials and you dont have to put on any pads. The games could either vary in time every sunday or could be set up at a specific time each and every sunday.

Now understand, there is always going to be something, it's human nature. However, thats why a team would have backups. All the backups would do is watch a game (for $300)until they are put in the game. For instance, some shooting games allow you to watch until it's your turn to play, All-Pro could be set up in a similar way. And if and individual is consistantly having issues showing up for games than he can be bumped to the Free Agency, and some one who has been waiting weeks to get the email; TEAM TARGET would to make you an offer to join their team. Gets signed for $X per game.

FEEDBACK

allpro-anticipation

April 9th, 2007, 09:35 AM

How is this not possible? Corporate sponsoring is one of the most elite wasy a company can advertise, expecially with and up and coming juggernaut such as 2k. Think of it this way, all of the existing videogames have some sort of company advertising in some way. Rather it is the logos on the jerseys, a Toyota truck showing stats, or the shoes on a basketball players feet (barely visible). Half the time we dont even notice these sorts of publicity. And these companies pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS just to present their logos.

On the contrary, instead of charging a company big amounts to participate, each franchise could pay something like 25,000 or less. Just for the reason of having big companies and SMALL companies as well. Which will not only give the game more depth, but also gives the small franchise and opportunity to get well-renowned publicity that it would ordinarilly not have the means nor oportunity to have (ie. TEAM COFFEE SHOP). This would also allow more teams to participate, as well as more opportunities for good and average players to join the league. Now of course there can also be a bigger incintive to win, 2k could have a grand prize of $100,000, marketplace points or whatever. IT coudl even go so far as the winning organization (TEAM UNDERARMOR) gets advertisement not only publicly for being the winning team but also they could be mentioned on the BOX ART of the next years game.

As for each individual player having to pay to join the league, something like would only work with a one on one situation. Say if you paid $50 bucks and your teamates SUCK, that is not money well spent, and there are going to be alot of heated arguments. As well as online hostility, That is why I say 2k can recruit companies that ae willing to participate and pay the best of the best to help turn the company into a household name. Even if it is just for that year (2007 Champion's).

Even if we talk economics, something like this has to be done. There are countless good companies going out of business not just because of the competition but also because no one KNOWS what they have or who they are. Alot of companies lack the funds to advertise on TV, and so I ask what is the next most popular, videogaming. And not just any form of videogaming, online gaming where I can be facing TEAM PATRICK CLOTHING from Columbus, Gerogia that I may have never heard of otherwise. IF anything this gives the company an opportunity to atleas become recognized within it's own community. Whether or not people begin shoppin there is different but there are many companies that advertise all the time and still cant generate any business. However I am getting off subject allow me to resume.

You see there are so many ways for this to work it would just be a matter of us all seeing the BIG PICTURE. And I believe in order for 2k to really make a name for itself WITHOUT THE NFL LOGO they are going to have to have something bigger than great gameplay. Something that makes you say, F*** the NFL I am going to make a name for myself in a real public league.

allpro-anticipation

April 9th, 2007, 10:25 AM

Questions or FEEDBACK PLEASE

REDRZA

April 9th, 2007, 10:43 AM

JimiTH1RTE3N

April 9th, 2007, 11:08 AM

I agree big time with REDRZA

No way...its not gonna work for many reasons...

1) No ones gonna want to play a game were you play a football game one position with risk of injury, sitting on the sidelines waiting or just watching a game because your a backup.

2) It would not sell, people do not want that kind of football game, especially if it's competing with Madden. The general public just wants a Madden Killer (and pro football simulator, not an arcade style game).

3) You'll only be able to play the game hoping to get AT LEAST 22 players at one time online simultaneously...not gonna work buddy.

Like I've said before, just make the game like they use to before football games even had licenses (The first Madden, Joe Montana Sports Talk, etc.) use the numbers (editable) and team cities and made up team names (also editable) and it'll do just fine.

ewaldbrady

April 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Personally, I'm not as against the idea as some are, but here are a few flaws......

1) this plan would allow a company to advertise, and even if it is a relatively small amount (for a major corporation) like $25,000 (which actually doesnt work out with the salaries per player you are talking about since 22 players *NO BACKUPS* averaging $200/wk (which seems low on your scale) comes out the $70400 for 16 games plus coach or gm would need some benefit). but a realistic league would be in the 20-30 team range (amount of companies who would realistically sponsor in full extent and number of players free to play weekly AND PRACTICE AS A GROUP as would be needed in something semi-professional such as this). But the big thing is, assume 30 teams, you're talking 660 guys exposed to the brand unless there is some real incentive to watch these games.

2. Like I said, there are a finite amount of companies whose target demographic is those of us who sit in front of a tv playing video games a bunch. It could be a pretty solid number if you assume just about every electronics company would be interested, throw in like the energy drinks, pepsi and ***e, mcdonalds and fast food too (you have to remember though that both 2k and microsoft COULDN'T sponsor teams themselves simply because there are too many ways they could manipulate the league). but small companies like you mentioned wouldnt really work. i mean, maybe our definition of small is different, but small companies usually arent national, nevermind international as xbox live is, meaning that this isnt a very efficient advertising method. if some chain that even goes up and down the east coast advertises, it means AT LEAST 2/3 of the people who encounter there team isnt even in the market area.

3. you mention like a minor league system where someone would play 2 seasons before applying to a major team, these teams would be much less organized and have little incentive and control most likely. therefore, these would become bogged down with quitters, people who dont know **** about what they're doing, etc, making it a big turn-off for those trying to come up through them.

Those are the three big obstacles I see, I agree about the pay leagues being a problem like you pointed out, but if there were "combines" or "tryouts" I'm sure it could work out. Again, I would love a system like you propose, more than anything, I just think there are some serious obstacles to get by to make it happen. I hope that 2k does allow an 11v11 system SOON as that alone would be something different enough from madden to really make an impact. (i dont know programming but i dont think that if a 11v11 system is implemented it would be very hard or time consuming to go to 22v22 besides bandwidth issues). Personally, I would play an 11v11 mode often (and probably be one of the few who would play OL regularly. This brings up one other point (dedicated OL people will be difficult to find, thats why the play both sides works out since DLine is more enjoyable so being able to play both would increase interest).

So allpro, do respond please, this conversation is good and hopefully someday something like this comes to be.

allpro-anticipation

April 9th, 2007, 04:06 PM

Im sorry All-pro, not trying to pee on your corn flakes, but i dont like it. I like my traditional football games the way they are, me controlling my entire team and playing another person head to head. I dont want to be limited to one position or aspect of the game, it just sounds to me more like a role playing game rather than a Football game.

I want to call my own plays, and execute them myself. I would much rather have developers focus on making the overall game better, like physics, AI, features, presentation and gameplay. Give us more online options like spectator mode for league play. Make the DB AI play realistic, make the QB mechanics realistic. I just want an innovative, but solid football game that WOW's us with what they can do with next gen hardware, i have zero interest in playing a football role playing game.

And you know, i fully understand where you are coming from........ You are the type of individual that wants to control every aspect of the game. If 2k was to import a feature such as this one it wouldn't neccessarily be for every one. It would just be more of a optional feature for those that would want to participate in a team game vs. individual play. It would all be about your preference.

Also it would definatly have a sort of ROLE PLAYING feel. However it wouldnt be your traditional role play becasue the only role you would be playing is your own. It would be more like if you were playing for your local semi pro football team than, than like final fantasy.

feedback

ewaldbrady

April 9th, 2007, 05:43 PM

yeah, what exactly do you propose as a method for player development? ive been thinking about it and can't come up with any system that would really work. I mean, you need a system which wouldn't allow teams full of max rated players. Or do you propose that everyone is capped at some overall rating but have the freedom to apply those points inside the game (EX: a WR could max speed or catch to create both burners and possession/slot guys). You could then develop a system of reward (OR PENALTY) based upon game stats. however this would need to be positional. like a MLB may need 8-10 tackles just to not go down, while on OLineman may just need to not let up a sack. this system would be very complex though. any better ideas?

as for the being like semi-pro, that is the best goal. personally, i do play semi-pro ball and i'll tell you there is a GIANT number of people who want to relive their football careers but either can't physically do it anymore or forget that long practices in pads in summer heat and actually abusing your body like that isn't as fun as you might remember it. this whole group would probably be interested in a game like this.

lastly, what do you think would do best for a chat system? should it be team only? or open. there are pluses to both, if its team-only, then you can talk openly such as "x fly, y dig, z curl" or whatever. i think a chat system would work much better than true audibles through the game since it becomes fully customizable. the plus of an open chat channel is the realism is there. like i said, i play semi-pro ball, and when we hear an opponent audiblizing, we usually will switch up our defense on the fly simply because the opponent may have seen a weakness. so the defense should know if/when the offense is changing things up. the drawback hear obviously is that team members would need to learn calls and audibles. but some system where the players on field talk only with team in "huddle" then switch to open chat as they come to the line, maybe even having the volume increase as you near the line (so you can try to squeeze in something without a call while carrying the risk of it being heard if you do it too late). also, if it goes to 22 v 22 (i actually just thought of another problem with this system which i will touch after), those on sideline can chat privately. one other thing along these customizable audibling (like totally freeform) is lineplay. i dont want to be locked into one assignment. i mean, on an off tackle run, a twist may work better so i'd like to be able to audible with the guy next to me and let him know what im thinking and also be able to visually lock onto my new assignment.

the problem i realized with the 22v22 system is the area of packages and subpackages. for example, in a nickle or dime defense there will be extra DBs, making those backups you talked about necessary, making scheduling even harder. same with like offensive subpackages, like a heavy backfield.

lions67

April 10th, 2007, 07:10 AM

allpro-anticipation

April 10th, 2007, 08:03 AM

REGARDING EWALDBRADY'S first POST; PAGE 3

Those are some of the toughest obstacles this game would have to overcome for a type of internet play like this to become a reality. You are right, a companies budget with a team of thirty odd players (including backups) with a 10 game regular season schedule come out to about $60,000 without the additional 25,000 to just join the league.

What I guess could happen is 2k could allow a company to join for either something more along the lines of $5,000 (just so 2k can make some money beyond game sales) and also afford to dish out a big award purse for the champioinship team. So in total with a compramisable $200 per player (of course bakcups shouldnt be making the same amount until they begin to contribute or are highly regarded in the draft or signing). A sponsor is looking at spending more or less $65,000 but gaining worldly recognition. But as you said before only advertising to those that play the game and really only having effect on those that are in their market area.WHICH TAKES ME TO YOUR NEXT POINT.........

It deffinatly would make more sense for the companies that SPONSOR a team (meaning a McDonalds team with the Golden Arch on the HELMETS and team colors consisting of RED, and Yellow) to be more highly renowned teams. I completely agree with your idea of electronic companies sponsoring more so than samll time franchises. EXPECIALLY with your idea of a TEAM PEPSI or TEAM COCA COLA. There has never before been a COCA COLA or PEPSI add in a game before and this would not only be break through but neither would have to worry about cancelling a small contract (COMPARED to the amounts spent on Ludacris, Brittany Spears) because of mis representation. As well speaking of which there shouldn't be any conversating in the league what so ever except for the GM or Coach and even then so he can only speak with other GM's or Coaches. Besides that he selects the players on the play selection part of the game and selects the playER'S when signing. NO other form of communication, so there are not any negative publicity.

As well in regards to the unorganized 2 sesons trial in order to join the league. It would definatly be no more different than the leatues are now. I mean yes it would be great if the stats were based off a team effort sort of trials for the league but I can imagine without the incentive to actually play alot of people 1 season in or 4 seasons i(after repeated attempts to join but not good enough stats or is overlooked/ such as really in the NFL) n might lose their patience or just simply become bored with the process. Again, in order to become chose for the league it would be based soley on YOUR stats. Personally I think the SPONSOR teams shouldnt even have access to your wins and losses. All that should be shown to them is

1. How many seasons played.
2. How many games played
3. How many times (or a percentage like in Fight Night) that INDIVIDUAL quit.
4. All of His/Her stats throughout the seasons

I know someone is going to ask WHATI IF SOME ONE QUITS does the game end and my stats reflect that?

The answer is no if some one were to quit just like when playing one on one at home the CPU fills in with a very high designated AI, like LEGEND (difficulty) or ALL PRO, something that makes sure you have to work for your stats.

BUT also at the same time it could aslo be based one those on one games most of us are still playing on NFL2k5. For instance like the guy that has played 300 games and only given up 20 TD's he woudl be high prospect for a defensive player of his choice BECAUSE the team knows that HE knows how to play defense. OR the guy that has played 20 games and has a scoring ratio of 70-21 He might make a good fit for either O or D. I mean players can be recruited in so many different ways.

Holla Back

allpro-anticipation

April 10th, 2007, 08:27 AM

with the idea of sponsorship. at first i thought it was just a neat idea but without the ability to actually watch a game that is being played i didnt see how it could be done. but now!..holy crrrraaapp, there is a tool out now that lets you do just that!
its called blitzcast.
check this out and tell me this wouldnt fit into the big sheme of things

http://www.blitzcast.com/

Great find...... You know the more I investigate about this the more I feel as if 2k has something like this already planned

You and I both know that 2k always has something new up their sleeve. And if they want to in any way compete with MADDEN then I feel they are going to have to offer something more than Fully customizable options.

GREAT FIND AGAIN........................... HOLLA BACK

lions67

April 10th, 2007, 09:00 AM

yes!...the possibilities are mind boggling.
finally now YOU cam be on tv in the big game!...championship sunday!...and all your peers can watch you!
i mean really, this thing fits your plans like a glove!.....the future is getting VERY bright.

ewaldbrady

April 10th, 2007, 09:01 AM

all-pro, the communication i was talking and asking about was the in-game portion. like when actually playing a game. so a qb could change a WRs route or something WITHOUT using a built in "hot route" system. it makes the audibling totally open-ended. what do you think?

allpro-anticipation

April 10th, 2007, 09:15 AM

Heres what i say in regards to Ewaldbrady post #2 PAGE 3;

1. Player devolpnent? GREAT POINT, What I see is a league where every one is equal when it comes to how far they can throw or how acurate their arm is or how fast they can run. Becaue I feel that a league where every one gets paid should be more along the lines of reality more so than the game feel. As most of us know when playing football, YES you can become stronger, YES you can become faster, BUT most of the players develope MENTALLY more so than in any other trait. So i think that the palyers should EITHER be maxed out with all points or Maybe find a medium depending on the position (obviously you do not want a OL running stride for stride all the way down the field with his RB) that couldnt happen. But i feel that if you come into the league all players should have something like a 85 overall or maybe a 90 overall, and the game be more about JUST HOW GOOD YOU CAN PLAY THE GAME ON A JOYSTICK AND HOW WELL YOU CAN CONTROL YOUR PLAYER AND RESPONSIBIIITIES. AKA YOUR MENTAL GAME.

However now that you metnion it I do see where players could get an A for effort in their trial period.

Maybe for instance a all players start off with an 85 overall and once you SUBMIT YOUR stats to 2K or to a specified web adress 2K could build and then become signed based off your stats you could earn points. Like if you decide to enter the draft or FREE AGENCY as a OL and you were never responsible (aka your man to cover made the sack) for your QB becoming sacked in 20 games then you recieve a boost in strength, pass blocking, run blocking whatever ( Something small where it wont make a big difference but reflects that you were a top prospect)

IF there is to be any CHATTING I dont feel it should be done to audible I think the chatting should just be with TEAMATES. If there is an audible or hot route the DEFENSE should jsut see the quarrterback or WHOLE offense go through the changes, and adjust.

Now when an audible is made a screes should pop up for about 5 sec's showing each player his new responsibility with the camera directly behind YOUR player (slitely above) showing your route or your new person to block.

But actually when you really think about YES it would be really cool to chat with your teamates and eve though your screen says to block #55 you tell (YOUR TEAMATE) to take him and you will block his man, or you need help doubling him up.

But here is where the hard part comes in

1. Even though most every one will be serious there could be a few jokers that are serious when they play but talk with every one and make jokes while palyers are trying to talk.

2. There might be more than one or two people trying to do something at the same time and it could confuse and even end up in a bad play.

3. When you talk you are not listenting, and that can definatly build up alot of confusion.

There are a few others that COULD happen but I think for someone to even consider joining a SPONSORED team they would definatly have to be a more SERIOUS and DEDICATED type of player.

SO it could happen PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR INPUT any one on how this could work.

Yes it would be a necessity to have backups and i think it only be fair that someone gets their opportunity to play.

At first I was thinking (while reading yor statement) that MAYBE their should only be enough playrs on a team to ensure that you can call A Hail Mary (5 recievers or whatever non traditional Deffensive packages are out there) or a obscure Defensive package ( 2 extra LB's, 2 extra DB's, 1 extra DL) and then NOT have injuries. BUT NOW that I think or it EVERY ONE DESERVES a chance to show what they can do. SO MAYBE INJURIES wouldnt be a bad thing. FOR instance maybe if you get injured, you can only be injured for the rest of that game. and then the next week you are OK. I also feel that as your playrs get injured the possiblity more injuries to bakcups should go down very much so (Maybe all the way) so your team never runs out of playres.

FOr instance starting QB (SO and SO) is making $275 a game and has a whopping 37 TD's and only 4 INT's gets hurt in 2nd QRTR (average chances/ or slightly less) . Well then 2nd string Quarterback (YOU) making only $150 a game step up and throw 5 TD's and and win the game (With even less to none possiblity of getting injured) and also show your value to the team.

IT COULD BE DONE ON A WHAT IF APPLICATION just like on your calculator.

IF TEAM A ONLY has 2 RB's
THEN 2nd RB can not be injured.

LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK..............

ANYONE FEEL FREE TO VOICE YOUR OPINIOS ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING......................

ewaldbrady

April 10th, 2007, 01:06 PM

well the blocking system you mentioned (most commonly used in a twist blocking situation) is technically an audible, so thats what i meant. and some method needs to inform the other side that something is going on. for example, a defense may audible from 4-3 Sam Dog (Strong side OLB blitz) into a base 43 Cover 2 Under Man. The players may not switch positions on the field, but something is happening. In reality, offenses make a big effort to snap the ball when they notice a defense making a lot of changes, hoping to catch them before everyone knows their new assignment. To replicate this, I think there needs to be something so the other team can hear that you're doing something. But there are a lot of audibling possibilities on any play:
WR routes
Blocking assignments
Holding a TE or RB in off a route to block when a blitz is there
All these arent full play changes, just little things that happen every play in any semi-sophisticated football gameplan. So I think something where you make these calls should be in the game. The worry about "jokers" and people who can't handle the calls shouldnt be there in a paid league. I think some form of a scouting report should be there for players, where teammates can put comments, and then when someone is looking for a new player, they will see that this guy prevents his teammates from operating effectively.
As for the worry about people talking at once....not a problem if the guys have any cohesion because you just have the linemen make their calls starting at the point of attack and working away, once they are set, QB makes his calls as it takes time to read a D. On defense, just one guy, if anybody, will make calls. its much more reactive so you dont have to plan on so much. But the benefit of the chat would become great on the OLine since there is no way to incorporate every possibility of a human controlled blocker in.

Maybe it's just me, but a chat system like this would be a dealbreaker for me if it wasn't there since it would just end in the game being unrealistic.

actually, reading your post, i guess the other team wouldnt need to hear the opponent, as long as the game built in solid animations for hot routing (qb making signals, WRs taking a step closer to hear, etc). and come up with some penalty system for just doing it through chat or something and not in the game system. like i know you may want to audible to hitch and go, so you can say that over chat, but throw the hot route in for a fly, so the WR stays on the same path more or less, but might run it a little different, that wouldnt cause a penalty (speed, catch ratings im thinking), but if the original play called for an out, but you see the post is open and tell the WR to run it but dont audible to it or something close, the WR's ratings drop more and more as they leave their route pattern.

as for rating players, i think it's necessary to keep it more in the 80-85 range (or something equivalent in whatever system they use), but these are free to manipulate how you get there. like i mentioned before, you could get a WR that has GREAT hands and toughness or something so he'll make the tough grabs as he gets hit over the middle. on the other hand, you could make a guy who can just burn a corner and maybe leap over him (Randy Moss type). I think positions would need limits on their points (a guard might be able to choose between 50 and 65 for speed while a WR could be 80-99). but the player is free to customize their player as such, creating different roles.

allpro-anticipation

April 12th, 2007, 08:17 AM

Alright I agree with you it would be real cool if you could hear all the chatter in the game, EVEN FROM BOTH SIDES. BUT even for a PAID players, realize most great players in videogames really dont know an excessive amount of play calling and signalling. EVEN I played football and half of what you are talking aout has already left my memory.

BUT allow me to adress what you are saying and show you why this WOULD BE COOL IF THEY COULD MASTER IT. BUT otherwise should thought over.

1. In order for your teamates to know about the audibles, you would really have to sit down and study A PLAYBOOK. I for one would be unable to study a playbook so in depth. Too many people have other responsibilities throughout the week ie CHILDREN, HUSBAND/WIFE, OVERTIME AT WORK etc. Eventually it would just become a matter of whats more important, studying a playbook that earns you $200 a week, or getting in those OT housts, or whatever that assures your family shelter. SEE WHAT I MEAN?

In otherwords it would make the situation to drastic to keep on a schedule or know what is to come. Thats why I feel IF ANYTHING the players could just chat amongst themselves, in a manor that is simple and to the point, I WILL TAKE #56 YOU TAKE MY MAN, so as not to confuse or be misheard.

2. Honestly for the football players this would be a great feature, kind of a way to bring you back on the field. BUT for gamers once a gain it would be a way of schrutinizing those that dont know much about the game per say.

BECAUSE even if you have a team that is PAID MONEY TO PLAY, there are still alot 2K football fans that can play their AS/S off (POSITION OR WHOLE TEAM) but dont take the game as deep as say a former football player may. We must realize in order for something like this to really LIFT OFF we need all the playrs we can get to participate FROM THE BEGINNING.

I see what you mean when referring to the PLAYER RATINGS. GOOD idea it could be a kind of PICK YOUR POISON situations. IF your reciever player is going to have GREAT hands then your going to have to sacrifice his speed a little bit, ALSO LIKE FIGHT NIGHT WHEN YOUR ARE FORCED AT THE BEGINNING OF CREATING A PLAYER TO CHOOSE WHAT HE WILL BE GOOD AT but you only get a limited amount of points to distribute them as you wish. BUT there will be some problems with that, as you can see where gamers may start to have issues with the created player and feel as if they made a bad decision and may feel as if they will never become a starter.

Actually in thought of my own origianl idea where all players are equal and it is solely about talent, it would be a great idea for a player to get a large number of points to ditribute and they distribute them as they would like. In the end giving them a maximum possibility of achieving a 87 overall or something. FOr instance when creating your SPONSORED TEAM player he starts of wiht 50 in everything, SPEED, STRENGHT, VISION etc. but you are allowed 99 extra points to use as you would like.

BUT here is the hard part. After reading about 2k8's new method I hear there will no longer be points. So we will have to wait and see where this would have to go..

allpro-anticipation

April 12th, 2007, 08:31 AM

NOW WHAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED IS the ideas of camera VIEWS.

THe best way to do this would be a camera just like with First person in 2k5 but that is begind the player maybe 5 yards back and 10 feet up (by the games terms) and stays that way throughtout the game (except in the huddle). ALSO when a play is called the camera should individually show that specified player, ie. you at your position (SAFEY, CB, whatever) and show your responsibility. And if you are supposed to drop back then the camera view zooms out showing where you are supposed to drop back to. now if your a DB, LB whatever and the ball is thrown say win a 20 yard radius that you are in your camera view should split into two and you can either choose to play the ball or the receiver. but all plays should start off the same way just watcning the OL or DL (if your on offense)

As for Offensive players (WR specificly difficult) the camera should be one in the same starting off directly behind the player. JUst like with the defense as well when the offensive play is chose there is a brief 5 sec pause and the camera shows you who your blocking or what rout you need to take. JUST like when your at the line and you press R2 or RT (xbox) to see your routes, except it would be just for your player but the camera would still zoom out far enough where you could see how far you have to go, or where you need to make cuts. As for when the ball is in the air maybe under your player there is a yellow circle or something that flashes real quick letting th qb know its coming to you, or the quarterback could say hes throwing to JOHNSON on the headphones, then the camera could flip around behind hou (if the ball is coming at you) in a way where you are still in the picture but the camera is still aimed at the ball in the air.OR so to ensure your lign of sight is less dirupted when a reciever is thrown the ball his camera view could change to FIRST PERSON, that would be COOL.

IDEAS

ewaldbrady

April 12th, 2007, 09:32 AM

well, as for chatter on mics. the playcalling would still be down in game. so you dont need to learn a whole playbook. in fact, you could come up with a cheatsheet next to you while you play. a basic passing tree covering the 10 major routes and their numbers would suffice. so you can go with that. then to disguise it you can just say that the middle number of a 3 digit series is what you want. so if you say your WR's name and then 436, that WR would look at his sheet and switch to route 3. something like that. same thing with blocking. realistically there will only be one or two audibles there as the chipping and going and various other double team techniques almost definitely wouldn't make the game. thats really about it. this information could fit on an index card. as for defense, that can all be done in game by actually audibling (either by coach or a "defensive captain" if someone can learn to trust someone that much). so no one would have to learn a playbook, just take the 5 minutes to get the passing tree or whatever you need depending on your position. any full play changes would use the audible system we all are used to which shows the new assignments for everyone.

as for camera, i really liked what madden had honestly in the superstar mode. i thought it was effective at just about every position. it needs to be tweaked a little, like a RB with ball needs a wider view than a lineman. i think that view width should be tied to some attribute of a player, like whatever equivalent there is for awareness. as for cameras splitting or changing, im not a huge fan of that, just because i think it becomes a huge distraction. id rather be able to click preplay to look at my assignment or at the ball. especially on defense this is effective, as if you are in a zone, id rather be watching qb (some sort of passing cone like in madden should be used i think. i know not many people like it, but it makes the position more difficult to play which is a good thing, and allows safeties and lbs to follow qb's eyes like in reality). whereas if im playing man, you watch the receiver.