Maddennation.com believes this!!!!!

[SEGA2k]

There will inevitably be other things that will irritate the hardcore group, but it has to be accepted that the company needs to reach out to both segments of consumers.

All-Pro Football can not pretend that it will take over the place of Madden or even NCAA Football, very few will bring APF in as their only football game. It must become a companion to those titles. It has the opportunity to do well by becoming the second or third football game in someone’s library. It is unrealistic to believe that Madden will be passed over in favor of a non-licensed game.

It can achieve that place in the household by offering things that the other games don’t. What do football gaming fans clamor for but haven’t gotten the last couple years? What are the other titles expected to be lacking this year? That is where APF can take advantage of its place as a non-licensed game. It can take liberties that the others can’t. That doesn’t mean going the route of Blitz: The League but it does mean they can concentrate on certain aspects that the others don’t. There is still much to tap into with online play for example, which is an area that EA has not put complete effort into thus far.
At the same time it can’t take unrealistic risks. Something like Natural Motion will not be used completely, if at all. While the game needs a way to stand out, if there are too many problems or glitches it will turn consumers off from it in future years. With an unlicensed game its unlikely many would give it a second chance if they didn’t like the effort the first time around.

The release date is important. If it were to beat NCAA Football and Madden to the market, it would have all the attention on itself at that time. If it waits too long, it’ll get swallowed up and will struggle to be heard. It could have the potential of coming out after the NFL season is over as well, which would offer it a nice area in the sports gaming schedule that isn’t packed heavily. When the NFL season is over, having accurate rosters aren’t as important and thats when many fans start to lose interest.
The game may very well be worth the $60 price that most come out at, however many won’t accept it unless they can feel they are getting it at a discount. When you consider most fans will be looking at purchasing one if not both Madden and NCAA, you’re potentially looking at $180 in football gaming costs. NFL 2K5 made its move by selling at $20. And there is no question that had a big part in it. Many Madden fans gave it a chance because of that. Selling at $40 or $50 would be a smart move for the first year of this franchise.
By releasing on the Xbox 360 and PS3 only, the company is hoping to set up the framework for the future and it will hopefully in turn create a better game for these consoles since it is concentrated solely on them. However when you go back to 2K5 and consider that a good portion of the fans of the game purchased it because of the price, many of those ‘budget’ consumers will have not made the move to next-gen. Essentially those who are still on the PS2 will not have the opportunity to get the game, and most will not be able justify purchasing such expensive hardware simply for this game.

So All-Pro Football has its work cut out for it, however it can achieve success by entering the market in a tactical manner. If it can become a companion to the other games it will get the opportunity to grow from there in future years. There has to be a realistic approach and calmed expectations for this year based on the many factors it will face.

http://maddennation.com


Go to maddennation.com and look to the left of the page and read this article and what others believe about APF. GT: RaVeN3152-xbox

[scottyp180]

i agree with you. you made some good points. no matter how good all-pro is it wont beat maddens sales or steal madden fans. the majority of football videogame fans will see that theres no nfl players and theyll pass on it.

if 2k markets the game good they could possibly get goods sales. i agree with you when u say they need to release the game before madden and maybe ncaa, price needs to be cheaper, and take advantage of the things EA cant use. 2K also needs to release a video that ill blow people away. they need a video that when people see it (even ones who werent even going to give tha game a try) want to play the game. one of the biggest things that 2K needs to do is release a demo for both 360 and ps3 and make sure it comes out before maddens demo. im sure most people will play the demo just to see how the game is and if the game is good it could result in a lot of sales.

[Akuma2000]

APF2K8 doesn't need to outsell madden or try to make madden fans play the game, as long as the gameplay, presentation and A.I. is top notch and the game has features that should have been in madden and features that has never been seen before this will be more than enough to get people to try the game out.

Also a $35 to $45 price tag will be sufficient.......

[thePLAGUE]

i jus want them to do well....beating madden is not the goal...nfl blitz fans have had a game every year since i can remember...can we jus have our game (APF2k8) every year without the fear of EA?...Yes, but u people need to get off the nfl nuts and support APF no matter wat...Ea shall never share the license and as far as EA can afford it, the NFL will not budge...yea, 2k could cost madden a few millions but not enough to cause serious ramifications for their game...I will still be decently content if I could still play 2k5 online on the ps3...The nfl license is most likeley gone forever so deal with it....

Having said all of that i agree with SEGA, 2k needs to step up and publicize the hell out of this game...word of mouth isnt enough...But if the game truly has legends, they could really get a ton of casual gamers to bite...Who wouldnt want to play with Joe Namath or better yet SACK him?

[thePLAGUE]

its all in the COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL. ..COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIA L...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERCIAL...COMMERC IAL

[totalownership]

One thing I don't particularly like is how the author can sit there and make so many statements as if EVERY videogame player on earth is a madden fan.

"It must become a companion to those titles. It has the opportunity to do well by becoming the second or third football game in someone’s library. It is unrealistic to believe that Madden will be passed over in favor of a non-licensed game." Yeah ok, maybe in this guy's library but in mine only two things need to happen for APF to be the ONLY game in my library.
1) Be as good as NFL 2K5 without the known glitches
2) Madden keep playing like the junk it is. In other words Madden 08 be pretty much like 07

I have a strong feeling both of these will occur.

[REDSFAN2004]

One thing I don't particularly like is how the author can sit there and make so many statements as if EVERY videogame player on earth is a madden fan.

"It must become a companion to those titles. It has the opportunity to do well by becoming the second or third football game in someone’s library. It is unrealistic to believe that Madden will be passed over in favor of a non-licensed game." Yeah ok, maybe in this guy's library but in mine only two things need to happen for APF to be the ONLY game in my library.
1) Be as good as NFL 2K5 without the known glitches
2) Madden keep playing like the junk it is. In other words Madden 08 be pretty much like 07

I have a strong feeling both of these will occur.madden 07 plays like 01 lmao.:lol:

[kcxiv]

What he was trying to say in that artible was that 2k needs to come out early and be heard. If not then the game will flop horribly, While there is a few fans of the series, the game may be great, but the sales of it will just flop. We all know for a company to keep making a game, they need to make a profit. For 2k this game simply cannot afford to tank (sales wise).

That was a damn find article. It has to steal Madden fans, even if its a few. While the people here may like it, but say selling 10,000 copies on a game that costs at least a few million to make isnt a good thing.


It just has to find its place, and for them to do that, they gotta be smart and release it fairly soon, if they release with Madden, its going to be harsh. Even the Dev's gotta eat, not all of them get paid a ****load of money.

[kcxiv]

"It must become a companion to those titles. It has the opportunity to do well by becoming the second or third football game in someone’s library. It is unrealistic to believe that Madden will be passed over in favor of a non-licensed game." Yeah ok, maybe in this guy's library but in mine only two things need to happen for APF to be the ONLY game in my library.

In 90 percent of everyones library it will be Madden, he's talking about the Majority. Like i said in my previous post. It does have to sell half-assed well. That game is starting from scratch. I am sure they invested alot of time and money into the game. Then again, with the Release of GTAIV that side of 2k is going to just make a killing. I know i will be one of them to buy GTA lol

[Zooropa 2007]

I agree with total ownership. If APF2K8 is as good as NFL2K5 was, it will do just fine. Alot of people are tired of Madden and upset that EA bought out the NFL license.

[sleepytercel]

All Visual Concepts really needs to do is...display to those loyal Madden fans that EA has been milking them by providing true Next Gen graphics, sound, presentation, and features. Considering that NFL2K5 still has an engine that technically can be tweaked into Next Gen, and be more Next Gen than the current Madden's, I don't see this being a problem area. APF must be that game, that when shown on display, has people go, "Wow, that game looks insane, I can't wait for Madd...ummm...what? APF Football?"

[GODofSteel]

let the madden fans play there own game.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Visual Concepts needs to only prove themselves to one organization, and that is the NFL. They need to show them that their title can be quality enough and worthy enough to either give them the license or to share it. I also honestly think that the NFL would actually take less money, in the sense that they would actually be willing to give the license to 2K rather than EA. I mean, they do know how customers are reacting to the Madden series, and eventually, believe it or not, the sales will soon begin to reflect that. There does need to be a competitor for that to happen, and I firmly believe that 2K must get their game out this year, otherwise they won't really have time to play catch-up to learning the next-generation stuff and improving on it for this series.

That's why a series like the MVP series for baseball is a little more in trouble; this was the year that they needed to upgrade to the 360 or PS3, because they need to get re-familiarized with fans that also upgraded. If they want any chance to get a part of the license again, to be honest with you, money isn't going to be the only factor for major league baseball. They already have two great titles out, and I feel they're just going to get better with experience of building upon current-generation code, etc. More years under their belt will do them wonders, and that's what 2K needs to be sure to do with All-Pro Football. Getting two or three titles in the market before the contract expires will be the best thing for them, and I consider their release of these games as more of an audition to prove they are just as capable of drawing a great crowd even without the familiar name or the NFL license. If they do draw any sort of crowd, in my opinion that would leave a nice impression on the NFL to part their current marriage with EA.


If not for all this, they are sure as hell doing this for their loyal fans. The game may very well be made by the fans, in the sense that it may be our teams, our gameplay ideas, our features, our implementations, etc. But, to get it done outside of the message boards, they must advertise the hell out of it, and in areas where many casual Madden gamers are most susceptible to getting caught seeing some media. I do believe that they do need to convert a few people so that it is not just a one-sided opinion from former 2K fans only.


All in all, the football market is all together as one. In other words, NCAA will rival APF just as much as Madden will. Not too many people will roll in $100 - $200 for video games, and most people will only stick to one game. The key is to advertise earliest and to release earliest. Getting the name out may be a little more important than just attracting their devoted crowd, because all in all, it's not necessarily about beating Madden as much as it is about getting the NFL's attention again.

[sleepytercel]

I'm sorry Muff, but I think you're looking into things a bit too nicely. I don't think the NFL really cares about anything more than money. I think Visual Concepts did more than enough to prove their abilities with their football offerings, but that didn't stop the NFL from allowing an exclusive deal. I mean, Madden was already being criticized by many fans at that time. These are big organizations, and I don't think the NFL is even watching how Madden turns out, or even really cares. VC wasn't really a company that watched the opposition, mainly because they more of innovators, than followers. They'll make their game with the passion that they've always had, and offer die-hard football gamers the game we come to expect from them. They'll let their game talk for itself, afterall, they've always been considered "underdogs", which isn't fair for a company who's been making football gamers longer than Tiburon. The only thing underdog about their game, is the 2K Sports brand, and if Take Two keeps with it, then it won't be long until that view is obsolete.

[eckology]

One thing that ****ed off the NFL was ESPN 2K5's price tag. Consequently, to many consumers that was one of its best features. The NFL was upset that a product with their name on it was being sold below market price.

I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I've been trying to sell APF to all my Madden buddies. They know Madden has serious gameplay issues, and aren't against competetition. I'll probaby pick up 2 or 3 copies of the game when it comes out and get them off myself.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I've been trying to sell APF to all my Madden buddies. They know Madden has serious gameplay issues, and aren't against competetition. I'll probaby pick up 2 or 3 copies of the game when it comes out and get them off myself.I believe sales are counted by how many copies the stores by, and not necessarily the customer. But I'm not positive. So, unless your extra number of copies forces the store to order another shipment, I'm not sure what kind of minor dent you'll make. :p

[sleepytercel]

One thing that ****ed off the NFL was ESPN 2K5's price tag. Consequently, to many consumers that was one of its best features. The NFL was upset that a product with their name on it was being sold below market price.

I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I've been trying to sell APF to all my Madden buddies. They know Madden has serious gameplay issues, and aren't against competetition. I'll probaby pick up 2 or 3 copies of the game when it comes out and get them off myself.

It's Take Two's game, and they can sell it at whatever price they want. Take Two already paid for the license that year. Also, the NFL was already in negotiations with EA months before we knew about the price drop.

[KRS-One]

While the game needs a way to stand out, if there are too many problems or glitches it will turn consumers off from it in future years.

Hm, never stopped Madden from selling.

[eckology]

I believe sales are counted by how many copies the stores by, and not necessarily the customer. But I'm not positive. So, unless your extra number of copies forces the store to order another shipment, I'm not sure what kind of minor dent you'll make. :p

lol. Let me explain. When I say sell, I don't mean physically selll them the game. I mean I'm trying to convince them to get the game as it will most likely be a better game than madden. So I guess I'm trying to sell the idea to them. Get it?

In 2 months I'll be moving into a house with 8 other roomates. 4 or 5 of them each own 360s. So when I pick my game up, I'll most likely pick up another copy or 2 so when I bring it home, and they see how awesome it is, they wont have a choice but to buy it from me. I'm not trying to single handedly have APF outsell Madden, but merely trying to convert a couple of less than ignorant Madden fans. There's no personal gain in the situation. But most of my friends play Madden, and instead of having to play the recycled garbage which I suck at in order to get some live competition, I'd rather play the 2ksports version.

Sorry for the confusion Muff.
It's Take Two's game, and they can sell it at whatever price they want. Take Two already paid for the license that year. Also, the NFL was already in negotiations with EA months before we knew about the price drop.

Your absolutley right. But it didn't exactly turn the NFL on when a brand new game with their name on it was being sold at the same price as games that had seen a decline in sales which resulted in their price tags being dropped in order to move more copies, i.e. Playstation 2's Greatest Hits Series.

[TabulaRasa]

as long as the game makes profit I think Take2 shareholders will be happy. But I hope this game kicks madden *** in quality as they have always done. EAs ****ty exclusive deal has kept me from buying any football games since.

[ATEAM]

Let us not pretend we know why the NFL went this way folks.

Because if we do then the lip sync problems could have been the reason, right?


The test team is going to have to be tight.
The scripts are going to have to be tight.

Yes madden has errors, but they are at a level now in the community where they know they can get away with it. I mean look at the same product they put out year after year.

2K need to have a game that people main issue is, "man it would be nice if they had access to the NFL License".

Then they are a success.
If out of balance running or passing or or poor commentary or crazy glitches take center stage then I'm not sure they are looking at a successful release.


I do not think sales is the measuring tool to use in this instance.
Some may buy as loyal fans, some may out of curiousity, some out of frustation.
The result of gameplay will determine the success of this game.

Low sales, but a good rating gameplay wise will make for a hungry crowd in 2k9.
High sales, but a low rating gameplay will turn people off.

[JoeCoolMan24]

One thing I don't particularly like is how the author can sit there and make so many statements as if EVERY videogame player on earth is a madden fan.

"It must become a companion to those titles. It has the opportunity to do well by becoming the second or third football game in someone’s library. It is unrealistic to believe that Madden will be passed over in favor of a non-licensed game." Yeah ok, maybe in this guy's library but in mine only two things need to happen for APF to be the ONLY game in my library.
1) Be as good as NFL 2K5 without the known glitches
2) Madden keep playing like the junk it is. In other words Madden 08 be pretty much like 07

I have a strong feeling both of these will occur.

No this guy is right. APF will only accompany Madden. It will not take the place of. I am a football fan, and like to see real players, teams, stadiums, coaches, all that. But for alternative I will play APF. There is no way i just buy APF, because then i lost the NFL experience. Unless your not a football fan, there is no way this game would replace Madden. EA fan or not, its the only football game we have with NFL everything. APF needs to sell at $20-30 PS2 and $40-50 next gen.

[OldRamsFan]

Unless your not a football fan, there is no way this game would replace Madden.

If someone weren't a football fan, why would he buy a football game at all?

It's very possible to like football, but not the NFL, and if someone doesn't care about the NFL, the NFL license won't mean squat to that person. My brother really doesn't like the NFL at all, but he likes football. So if he were into video football gaming, he would definitely buy APF 2K8 but not Madden.

Heck, I like the NFL, but unless Madden makes some major improvements, I'll be buying APF 2K8 and not Madden.

[alfram]

No this guy is right. APF will only accompany Madden. It will not take the place of. I am a football fan, and like to see real players, teams, stadiums, coaches, all that. But for alternative I will play APF. There is no way i just buy APF, because then i lost the NFL experience. Unless your not a football fan, there is no way this game would replace Madden. EA fan or not, its the only football game we have with NFL everything. APF needs to sell at $20-30 PS2 and $40-50 next gen.


I am a football fan, and not only will Madden be replaced by APF2K8 this year, it was replaced by NFL 2K5 in the last two years. :D

[GhostRider]

No this guy is right. APF will only accompany Madden. It will not take the place of. I am a football fan, and like to see real players, teams, stadiums, coaches, all that. But for alternative I will play APF. There is no way i just buy APF, because then i lost the NFL experience. Unless your not a football fan, there is no way this game would replace Madden. EA fan or not, its the only football game we have with NFL everything. APF needs to sell at $20-30 PS2 and $40-50 next gen.


To get my NFL fix, I would rather play a tweaked out newer version of NFL Head Coach than play Madden.That way I can mentally experience NFL action without having to go through that childish gameplay.

There is no way you could play Madden if you're a Football fan when 2k gameplay is available, and actually experience the same level of gridiron excitement.First Person Football is also even more of a realistic Football SIMULATOR than regular 2k gameplay.

The way I look at it, 2k has them beat twice.

The fact is, we aren't using 'real players' in these games...we are using virtual robots that have some real players name that says it is that player...but it is not real.It is all an illusion.


Therefore it is the gameplay that matters most, and the enjoyment that we feel.I love the NFL too, but not so much after this ridiculous deal with EA.


The reason why AP Football will suceed is that not only will it sell well, but it will also help their overall brand and increase sales of their other titles.Which will also have the effect of decreasing sales for EA sports titles...hopefully in a significant fashion.

This will make it possible to get back the NFL license someday, along with all of those e-mails I know you are all sending to the NFL detailing why 2k sports and it's fans deserve to have an NFL licensed game..and why this will be beneficial for the NFL.

If the NFL were to receive 100,000 to 500,000 e-mails declaring a complete boycott of all NFL products, they just might respond.

[Akuma2000]

I've said it before and i'm gonna keep saying it....

We already know the gameplay, graphics, physics and A.I. will be in APF2K8' (with gameplay being most important) because 2K sports prides themselves in thier reputation for making good sports games and is never satisfied with the finished product and is already working on improving next year's game (unlike you know who).

APF2K8' doesn't need to outsell madden08' or even try to take madden fans from their game, as long as this game make heads turn and have people saying "wow, i've never seen this before in a football game" or "man i wish this was in madden" or "now that's realism at it's best" etc......then this is all the game will need to get the word out and best beleive it'll spread faster than wildfire (not to mention some advertising on 2K's part).

The only real hurdle will be 2K deciding on the selling price, if the price is right (not to high or to low) it's gonna be 2004' all over again but this time there won't be any license for EA to take to stop 2K.


Let's see EA try to "lead block" out of this one......http://www.2ksports.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[kcxiv]

The game still has to sell well. I dont care who you are, or what you do. If you do not make money off something, it will be axed. Its just how it works.

Also, for the guy who said something about he needs the NFL experience. Thats not really true, I been watching football every sunday since i was about 7 years old. That is 1983 to 2007. I am a HUGE football fan. I also been playing nfl football games from the first Tecmo Bowl, til 2k5. I even bought Madden06 becuase there was no alternative. I did not make that mistake for 07. I rented it. I played it for a week. I then took it back, and never ever had the urge to play it again. I would rather play a generic game with good gameplay. Then a ****ty game with my favorite team.

In my opinion, games are about GAMEPLAY. If you have **** poor gameplay, i dont care who's backing the game. If a game sucks, it sucks.

[KRS-One]

No this guy is right. APF will only accompany Madden. It will not take the place of. I am a football fan, and like to see real players, teams, stadiums, coaches, all that. But for alternative I will play APF. There is no way i just buy APF, because then i lost the NFL experience. Unless your not a football fan, there is no way this game would replace Madden. EA fan or not, its the only football game we have with NFL everything. APF needs to sell at $20-30 PS2 and $40-50 next gen.

I love football, and I love the NFL, but with 2K back, there's no chance in hell of me buying Madden this year.

[earl johnson]

all pro will not outsell madden period ea has 2 much hype tv shows on espn football players bragging about it

[twsn88]

i think it just comes down to what people want and people love variety and choices. thats just how America works even though some people do not like pepsi but will go to coca cola, they still would like to have pepsi there. its just customer nature its actually good for competition but maddennation is going to say what they will say because well..they are madden nation. it would be surprising if they actually supported 2k8 but just as usual talk is cheap... when the game is produced we the customers shall see. but the main problem is that EA is sitting on their products because they know like everyone else does that they are trying to own everything.

[twsn88]

but i think that if that company EA would put more emphasis on producing a good game as they do they do bulding false hype they could actually give someone a run for thier money. its always important to know that the flashing lights and hype goes away through time but its the quality and the support of the customers that last for quite sometime. its never smart to bite the hand that feeds ya and EA is doing that ALOT peace im out.........

[Mogwai82]

Here's a commercial idea for 2ksports......Intro..... "F$#% EA!, we have real football here.", and exit, stage right.

[kcxiv]

all pro will not outsell madden period ea has 2 much hype tv shows on espn football players bragging about it
No one in their right mind thinks it will outsell Madden, it just has to make a profit. That's all i needs to do right now.

[wangjaz]

would it be wrong if 2K starts showing the AR machines on their website or even bundling them together?

i don't even have a ps3 or 360 yet, but when i do get my PS3, i'm sure i'll by an AR thing as well for the new "edited" rosters that'll be all over the internet.

also, would it be illegal for 2K to somehow "link" (never used xbox online b4) to fan roster downloads directly in the 360 (is this even possible?) it can follow with a msg something "we are not assosciated or do we support these fan files in any way?