Realism vs. Skills-Your Opinion?

[Football4Life]

When it comes to sports game there are two train of thoughts

Which do you agree with


Realism Example

#1
Your playing with Peyton Manning, he cant scramble for his life so when the pass rush comes hard he gets sacked easily.

#2
Your using TO on a screen pass, he catches it and runs over a scrawny DB on his way to a 1st down.

Skill Example

#1
Your using Manning and because your so crafty with the sticks you manage to avoid each sack with a perfectly timed evasive move

#2
Your using Marvin Harrison on that same screen pass and that same DB comes over when you perfectly charge your turbo and run right through him for a 1st down.

Which do you agree with?

[Entiel]

#1
Your playing with Peyton Manning, he cant scramble for his life so when the pass rush come hard he gets sacked easily.



#1
Your using Manning and because your so crafty with the sticks you manage to avoid each sack with a perfectly timed evasive move

& I have the replays to prove it. . . .

[tpaterniti]

Definitely #1, but that's just me. Using Peyton to his full potential should require skill, but not button-mashing skill. Players ought to have strengths and weakness. If you want an elusive QB, choose Vick or McNabb. No amount of thumb skills should be able to give Peyton their abilities. This takes the fun out of the game and IMO changes the nature of the game.

I am a huge NBA fan, and what I really like about it is that one spectacular player like Kobe or Tim Duncan or Baron Davis or Lebron at times can take over a game. Football simply isn't like this. Sure, an individual can make a huge impact on a game (like a Devin Hester or a Peyton Manning), but ultimately football is more of a team sport than an individual sport. Try as he may, Peyton can't go out and play defense, and that Center can only make his block. What the other 10 guys in the play do is beyond his control. Furthermore, although the athleticism of a player is important, often film study and understanding the game have the greatest impact on his contribution. Video games try to take football, one of the consummate team sports, and turn it into an individual sport. This is understandible because the gamer wants as much control as possible. But I don't think we should stray too far from the reality of the sport for fear of losing its essence for the sake of player control. I guess this is why I favor the "sim" style of play, but this is just my opinion, and I'm sure some will disagree.

[Jedeye]

I have to go with REALISM, of course. I like the action of football, but I enjoy the strategy aspect even more. Football is like a game of chess where you plot your moves ahead of time or according to the situation. Calling the right play at the right time is critical in real football. Also, coaches/coordinators use a series of plays to set up other plays down the road. In a game that is dominated by SKILLS, you can pretty much call any play you want, and then use unrealistic skills to make it work for a huge gain. That, to me, is just not football.

[twsn88]

we are past the ages of nfl qb club and the older gen games i think more and more they are going away from fantasy and reality which is not bad so for me? as a gamer i like realism all the way i would not have brought my 360 for nothing else..

[baandje]

I think Realism Example #3:

You’re using TO on a screen pass, but end up throwing to someone else. Once you’re back on the sidelines, TO spots a TV camera and gets in your face and starts yapping about how if the team didn’t want to use him, then how come they signed him?

[Jedeye]

I think Realism Example #3:

You’re using TO on a screen pass, but end up throwing to someone else. Once you’re back on the sidelines, TO spots a TV camera and gets in your face and starts yapping about how if the team didn’t want to use him, then how come they signed him?

Na, that's not realistic. Realism would be that he starts blaming his QB for not seeing him open, throwing bad passes, and then questions his sexuality.

[Entiel]

Hey you changed the answers on me. . .are you trying to make me look like a cheese. . .LOL:D

#1

[Football4Life]

Looking for more thoughts on this

Its pretty important when dealing when sports games.

[GoodSense]

Realism is a mixture of the two.

I think someone said it best when they said, you still should have to have skill to use Peyton at his best.

Just because you got Peyton doesn't mean the passes to Harrison should be almost automatic.

As for the stick skills if they implemented them right there really would be no argument.
I don't mind a well timed spin move, being effective, but lets be realistic about it...
How many successive spin moves are as successful as some people make it.
There is some fall off and the games don't put that in their logic like they should.
Just like the acceleration factors. Games don't seem to force players to accelerate again if they are blocked. They are at max speed. I'd love to see their code that controls this.

Anyway... stick skill is fine, but I think their effectiveness needs to drop off and come back up using the stamina rating or some other rating to determine how fast it comes back up to its full effectiveness.

Spin... spin... spin... spin... all well timed and successful just isn't realistic. This goes for any contact move and not just spin so don't get the wrong impression.

[Football4Life]

I believe NBA 2k7 handles this fairly well.

There are still times when I'm playing against the Nuggets and Carmelo dunks on me because I wasnt expecting him to be able to dunk like that when in real life his hops are limited.

But for the most part, Kobe plays like Kobe, Duncan moves methodically on the block, D-Wade flies high, and Nash drops his dimes

In football games, this could possibly make or a brake the upcoming Next Gen games for me.

With the technology at hand, there is no reason besides time constraints that they couldnt give certain players certain skill sets.

I do think however that they are on the right track by removing 0-100 ratings and giving players certain skills.

The only downside like the guy above said is that just because your using Randy Moss doesnt mean he is gonna out leap every single DB on every single Jump Ball.

[wangjaz]

100% realism for me. more the better.
but then, no matter how much i play, it'd get sorta playing with the browns, lions, raiders etc. cause realistically, they're not supposed to win. :P

ex., when i play nba 2K, i guess i could hit free throws better /w practice, but i set this to the sim option, where the player's FT attrib effects the success rate.
and i hate seeing players like S. Nash dunk on a fast break.
i hate seeing pitchers /w pinpoint accuracy in my baseball games
i hate pinpoint long throws from the RF.
i hate every pass being perfect passes in my NHL2K or even my WE.

thankfully, most of these things don't happen or i fine tune in those fine games.

[Dirymac73]

The thing that makes football the greatest sport created by man (quote me :) )
Is that it's the perfrect blend of strategy and raw ability. The best games, are the ones that find that proper balance.

Firstly, the skillset of every position player on your team should be used in dictating the kind of game you play. For instance, I'm a fan of hard nose football, pound and grind offense, only using the passing game to create a balance and maybe catch an opponent off guard. With that said, if my team's quarterback is subpar, then I should not be spending the whole game attempting long bombs, open or not, his long range accuracy should make me miss cue on these plays, if he's a 50/50 long range guy, then I expect to miss 1 for every 2 I throw. So now I need to have my strategy adjusted to not go for the long ball too often in the game.

If my back is a Bruiser, I want that to factor in when he makes contact, not so much of the automatic truck move, but if I hit the button and time it right I should be able to truck the first tackler, provided he went head to head to me and my momemtum is greater then his and he weights eqUAL or less then me - see all these things need to be factored in. As big as the Bus was when he played he very rarely ran over linemen if they were unblocked, 1 they'de have the weight advantage and he may not have enough speed and momentum coming with only 7 steps from the line of scrimage.

Now if the first truck move is successful, I would expect the percentage of a succesful run over to be less in the next encounter - since I am expending energy == power during the run. I don't think that games use a complicated enough algorythm to control this behavior, because it may not be as fun if the user does not have full control. I personally like the idea of the system calculating the possibilities as well as using my button press timing to determine if the move will succeed.

The closer to a real game the better to me.

[Football4Life]

Looking for more thoughts on this

[NTq]

I'm going to dive into NHL 2K7 to use for All-Pro (or any sports game) because i play it frequently. In NHL 2K7, when using manual shooting and pass aim assist down some, it makes you have to direct the pass. The majority of people use automtic shooting and high pass aim assist so basically they tap a button and it's tape to tape. i like that I have to manual do just about everything (except goaltending cause im horrid) it's a pan in the *** when I miss a pass or wide open net cause i shot to high, but the realism is there and i love it. Without It I would be cheating so to speak. This enables it so a player like Marcel Goc isn't putting up Danny Heatley type goals 9of course people find glitches and such) but you get the point. I agree Peyton shouldn't be able to move like vick and vick shouldn't be able as accurate as manning. I think the vision cone helps on this and is the only thing i kinda like in madden, but only for the lower QB's. When you use manning or Farve they see the whole damn field anyway so really now point for the vision there.

[Football4Life]

Another point..................

For those who prefer Skills, you really cant complain about not having an NFL license because with out player specific abilities then you could put up the same numbers you would with LT that you would with RB #21. Which means you would really just be playing with certain players for the sake of playing with them, not for acual gameplay benefits.

Realism on the other hand...........

Even if your using a fake team in APF 2K8 you would still have players with certain abilities instead of a 0-100 rating. Which means it WOULD matter who you play with even if they are fake players.

[chuckg313]

I agree with what most of you are saying but Game developers should try really hard to avoid giving players more ability than they have in reality, because it screws up the strategy of the game you should not have to game plan for peyton manning running out of the back feild but players should be able to pull off the rare escape (remember Tom Brady vs Brian Urlacher)