Interesting statement from guy At All Games

[Fair One]

One of the guys from the allgames radio show is on operationsports clarifying things that he said


Originally Posted by allgames View Post
Ok I'm here to take my lumps from you all but I want to be clear that there is no bias. I have played Madden and 2K over the years. When 2K and 2K1 came out i didn't even touch Madden. It was a non-factor for me. When Madden added online on the PS2 I went back to it and played both when 2K5 came out.

I apologize for the crap you had to sit through leading up to the 2K8 talk, the show has been around over a year and like most morning and afternoon daily shows, there are alot of inside jokes, and I realize the sound effects are annoying to some people, but there are thousands of listeners who enjoy it. It's been debated I've had listeners respond that they can get straight talk about games from a billion other sites, podcasts, etc. They like AGI because we are live, daily, and tend to goof off and get silly.
I understand that sucks *** when you just want info on something like a first hand experience with 2K8. So for the live feed people I apologize.
The show is an acquired taste and I understand for some it's not a taste you ever want to acquire. That said, the archive is up and you can drag the play button to the part that is only 2K8 and skip all the stuff you don't want. It's about 4/6ths through the show.
http://www.allgames.com/radio.asp?show=agi&ep=331
As far as my comments about the "gang tackling" video on the madden EA blog, I would preface it with that its better than any tackling that's been seen in Madden before. For some of you that may not mean anything, but it does show an improvement in this area. That's better than NO improvement IMO. To the guy that said "if they don't like over the top stadiums then i don't care what their opinion is" Are you for real? How much do over the top stadiums effect gameplay? How much of the stadium do you see when you play your games? Just thought that was a bizarre complaint about our views. I like nice looking stadiums, but that's not where I would want the developers to spend a lot of time. With no working xbox and no way to play 2K5 on my 360, i have been playing 2 years of Madden...because I love football. I can't understand why some people want to penalize us for playing whats available. I'm not buying an xbox to play for the rest of time.. I wish 2K had the NFL license but they didn't so I moved on to what was available. It's not perfect, but I enjoy playing when I am not facing glitchers. Also as a long suffering patriots fan, these are the glory days and while it's nice to load a legends game and see Elway and Montana. I grew up watching Steve Grogan and Stanley Morgan...but I also watched alot of ****ty old patriot football. Im looking forward to Stallworth and Moss with Welker in the slot...Oh and the Pats ran a 1-5 in practice the other day with Bruschi, Thomas, Seau, Colvin, and Vrable...not legendary for the modern era? My point is I love football as much as you all do and I went into this demo hoping it would blow us away.
The comment about development time, I said a little over a year not just 1 year. The point was it wasn't 3 years as everyone was speculating.
He said nearly a thousand new animations in the game
You can customize unis and players a ton of ways.
The custom players cannot be taken online
They can be taken on a mem card to a friend and they can use them too.
If you have questions I'll try and answer them I recorded most of the initial stuff he said to my laptop so I'll go grab that and start making notes on stuff I may have missed.
Again sorry to disappoint and anger that wasn't the intention. I hope you enjoy 2K8 because as I said, it's not bad or not fun, it's just not a new version of 2K Football. The fact is they need to see support from the consumers to make a real effort because unlicensed football is a gamble that only the market and determine if it is worth it. We asked about the 20 dollar price and they said they thought about it but just couldn't make it work.
-scot@allgames.com

[Fair One]

One of the user's asked him this

Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
Wow, great job manning up and coming here.....this place can be rough but rewarding.

Just a little concerned about your observations though. You said it didn't seem next gen, but I really don't understand what you compared Next Gen Football gameplay to making those comments. Next gen Madden is a fine game, but I'd hardly rank it's engine as the best as far as football gaming...in my humble opinion, I would rank them:

1. Current Gen NCAA
2. CG NFL2K5
3. NG Madden/CG Madden
4. NG NCAA

So when you said it's not "next-gen", I think that can be misleading quite a bit because many people equate that with the game being of low quality. You didn't explain what made Madden seem NG but 2K8 not next gen aside from the visuals.

I'm also concerned because you said the game didn't change much from NFL2K5. My main issue is that many said the same of 2K's NBA brand. Many game sites and reviewers were claiming that even 2K7 didn't have NG gameplay, worrying many across the net. When we finally got the game however, that couldn't been more wrong. There were so many nuances, gameplay mechanics, and animations that were so different it did indeed feel like a NG game although some on the outside may not have felt that. The same could be said for 2K's excellent NHL title(MLB is not very good IMO and never has been) So I'm confused as to what you mean by "not NG". What does any other football game have that's really "Next Gen" but 2K lacks? Is it purely cosmetic?

Again I appreciate you manning up and coming here. I know it can be difficult for people to sit back and call you biased.

[Fair One]

He responded with

originally posted by allgames

I think it was the realization that 3 years had passed and we were seeing the same game engine as 2K5. If EA had been using the PS2/Xbox engine the third Season of Next Gen Madden people would have been torching the building. When he told us the game had only been in development for a little more than a year we got it and all I can say is it just kind of underwhelmed us because we expected 2K to have taken the engine to the next level. The way Madden uses cutaways to give you that in your face look of the players at the line, QB calling stuff out the things like that just aren't there. Some will say WHO CARES that's not what the GAMEPLAY is about. That's why I said what I did, if you just want solid 2K football with some polish, YOU GET THAT DELIVERED.
Comparing madden xbox with madden last year is such a big difference visual wise, that just isnt there with 2K. The player faces like the one of Jerry Rice just doesn't shine through in the game, I can't put my finger on why that is. The players do look slim and the Fridge was NOT huge in comparison, just a bit bigger.
I guess you could say, If Madden hadn't existed the last 2 years would the graphics be a letdown... well compared to 2K baseball YES. Compared to Blitz 360 NO WAY. So I guess that's another way to look at it. MLB2K7 got a real nice facelift and gameplay lift, 2KFootball didnt IMO.
I'll also say we played one half and he said there were almost a thousand new animations, so we couldnt possibly have seen even a sliver of what was new, so I'd say that has to be factored in.
Also I would say that it was very apparent that the passing game/D play was different/better than how madden does it. I say different/better because some feel it is ***e/pepsi.

[cyco_9]

Nice find Fair One,thanks for posting it. It hurts to know we can't bring our custom characters online:confused:

[Fair One]

Nice find Fair One,thanks for posting it. It hurts to know we can't bring our custom characters online:confused:

yeah he said that about custom characters but thats not final from 2k sports i will have to wait and see

[Fair One]

so what do you guys think with those comments

[kcxiv]

about what i expected from the game. Its the first release on the next gen console. I am ready to play some games. I was not expecting as i have said in another thread, Gears of War graphics for this game.

[Unforgiven]

Heres another one from allgames ( scott )

Thanks for the impressions. I have a couple of questions for you. In game informer they mentioned defensive coverage shells and fronts could you go into how that worked?
--
As far as I can remember it was the usual 2K playbook options and I went with some 4-3 stuff, some goaline, some nickle and some dime. I didn't notice anything new in the defensive playcalling.
-----
Is there alot of movement by the defense prior to the snap?
----
Not any more than usual, I usually took a linebacker and would cheat up and fake a blitz then slide out to the side or drop back in coverage depending on what Cunningham did with the ball. If it went to sweetness, it was just...tough to get a helmet on him in the open field.
-----
Second, the playbooks. Are playbooks attatched to teams or do you choose a playbook when you start the game, one that fits your style? If so, which offensive and defensive playbooks are available?
-----
You choose a team based on the strengths of the players, and then pick a playbook to fit that team. I assume the game will ship with some created teams, he said the first thing you'll want to do is create your own team.
----
In your play time, did it seem like fatigue was a factor?
---
you know I should have asked about fatigue, I will get that question to him I assume its as it was in 2K5, but I'll ask. I didn't notice any players getting fatigued based on repeated use.
-----
Finally, did the action move fast or was it more slow paced?
---
I think the speed felt perfect. We watched a lot of clips of 2K5 before leaving for the demo. These clips were sync'd up to actual radio calls of the plays that were created in game and we noticed how the plays were very realisitic in terms of how fast players ran while the announcer called out ...the 30, 25, 20, etc..also how long passes traveled sync'd well with the audio. (see the 2K football tribute on you tube)--------
----I wanted to know more about if this game follows the rules of the NFL? Are the fields 100 yrds, and a 4 down aspect or has that been changed?
I asked about rules, all the same. Nothing changed like Arena or XFL.
They said the ref's wouldn't call PI as much since they had a lot of great corners and safeties and wanted to let the matchups be good. Just like in the NFL, getting a 50 yard penalty for a PI call just sucks.
-------------
2. Atmosphere: Did the stadiums feel and sound like stadiums, with crown ambiance and things of that nature. Were TD celebrations, along with the animatronics did they seem kidish or feel and sound like a celebration on TV.
=====
The celebrations were great more than ever and you can add them to buttons. There is a sack dance too.
They felt like real NFL celebrations and some famous ones are in there. They talked about no letting people celebrate with Sanders, but I think you can if you want to. They said barry didn't really care or get involved at all.
---------
The stadiums were nice and obviously creative, but I just don't get all that excited about stadiums for some reason. The crowd was into it, the sidelines had a ton of people cameras security etc.
------------
3. What happens when a season is done? Does it progress to a playoff and Superbowl type off event. I understand you played just a half, but did 2k delve into how a season plays out?
-------
I asked about season enders I.e. what happens when you win a championship as I know some people are always lamenting how there is no cool payoff after you sweat it out for a season and the playoffs. He didnt seem to know but was not thinking it was a big thing.
------
As far as presentation, it just wasn't something we were shown. I'm not saying it isn't AWESOME, cause we werent shown it and didnt get any real info on it. We only had an hour and I think the gameplay was what we all wanted to focus on. If they say its better than 2K5 I dont have any reason to believe that's not true it just wasn't something we had a chance to see. heck for these demos its possible that just the game was in the build since it was for this meet and greet, not for an online demo or anything.
---------------
Small questions though; Logos, customization wise, is it from a pool of pre-selected ones and you change color aspects of the logo? Say the Phoenix example you gave and theres 3 different ones, and you can choose the color of the beak, wings, eyes etc.
I didnt see the bird customization just lots of colors and lots of choices for helmet/shirt stripes bolts, zigs zags etc. He was able to create the Chicago Bulls so the helmet had a C on it and could have been mistaken for the Bears. There was also an eagle type thing and Americas for cowboys type thing so it's not that far out there...
--
Also, when creating your players, is it possible to have them be Gold/Bronze/Silver or is that exclusively for Legends?
----
My buddy remembers seeing the option to make your create a player a legend of gold bronze or silver.
---
Btw, no howie long, no terry bradshaw...

[MichaelPittman32]

^^^ did you have to write a 300 page book.

[Unforgiven]

Didn't write it .. copied and pasted it, don't read it if you don't want to

[pjpants]

its nice to see honesty not fan boy over hipe and people disilusioned with the lack of info and shouting foul. bottom line not as good looking as madden? am i happy with that? no but why do i play a downloaded version of techmo bowl? cause its fun! and despite the superior graffics of madden is it fun? nope. i am going to make a bad analigy here and spell it wrong on the way... i rember when castlevania was going from 8 to 16 bit and it was awsome then... 3d= looks better but plays like crap and loses the feel that made it a success in the first place. who can argue with the fact that the non sim 8 bit games were fun? after that more graffics seem to equal less fun. oh well i have lost my point and im sure this comment would have been made more sence two sentances ago :)

[pjpants]

excellent thread/post whatever btw good work

[MichaelPittman32]

Didn't write it .. copied and pasted it, don't read it if you don't want to
dude take it easy i was just playin.

[Unforgiven]

Ohh my bad it's kinda late here, grumpiness can take over me heh

[Entiel]

I just listened to it, I think those guys are Madden fanboys, but at least they were honest. . . .& you can see past their obvious bias. It's amazing how they actually use 2Ks superior gameplay to knock the game. . .LOL. Isn't interesting how they can talk about how great 2Ks gameplay is, & sound unimpressed because it's not NFL licensed. What would they say, if this was licensed. . .wow, EA knew what they were doing!!!!

At least it was informative. . . .By the way. . .according to how you(allgames.com) define Madden, NFL 2K5 IS Next Gen. . . .

put that in your pipe & smoke it.

[DA_Kenny]

so what do you guys think with those comments

I think he su.x

Hes too negative.

And i still think he is bias.

He keeps comparing the visuals to Madden.

They dont understand that 2ksports had to rebuild the whole game. They had to take out all the old stuff and start a new layout. Thats a lot of things to do, plus the planing and everything that goes on.

So as long as the gameplay is there, its all good too me.

[jthom71]

dude they had 2 to 3 years to get there game right. Thats no excuse they had plenty development time madden does there game a year at a time and 2k had from the end of 2k5 to get something going. If they can't compete thats there own fault and greg thomas needs to go manage a Mcdonalds it obviously less pressure

[SGA360]

Thanks for all the info, it was good to read something new. Nice find.

[deltroy]

great find thanks guys you all rock go 2k

[2Nyce]

I am still buying 2k. I don't care what they said.

[thePLAGUE]

dude they had 2 to 3 years to get there game right. Thats no excuse they had plenty development time madden does there game a year at a time and 2k had from the end of 2k5 to get something going. If they can't compete thats there own fault and greg thomas needs to go manage a Mcdonalds it obviously less pressure


dude, they didnt have 2-3 years stupid...they werent even caring about making a game untill fans like us demanded it...This is a game for the true fans who supported 2k way back on the dreamcast...al the rookies who just bought 2k5 all of a sudden think they know 2k sports...Get the f.awk outta here...This game was almost not made...Do you think EA woulda taken such a risk?...

[baandje]

I think it was the realization that 3 years had passed and we were seeing the same game engine as 2K5. If EA had been using the PS2/Xbox engine the third Season of Next Gen Madden people would have been torching the building.
WHAT??? Next-gen Madden uses the SAME D*MN GAME ENGINE they used in last-gen Madden. Honest to c.rap, the guy who wrote the article has to be entirely brainless to make a statement like that.

[baandje]

madden does there game a year at a time
I'm missing your point here. Every year, EA does nothing with the game. It's the same game it was in 2002, except with pretty graphics and player models that look like tree stumps. What is this 'year at a time' business?

[alliance4g63]

Yea I can see the bias and while I appreciate the info I really don't think he is someone I would base a purchase off of.

What I'm confused about is the fact that you can't take your custom players online yet they say you have to create a team for online. Wouldn't that include custom players? Or are they just saying you put together a team of people with attributes already determined? Because if that is the case,I'm not dissapointed because that is what I thought it was supposed to be like all along.

I hate these people that keep touting like Madden's engine was brand new for next gen.. I still would get stuck behind lineman when running,db's still superman jumped and the game had stupid momentum..Tell me again what was new about that engine again?

He made the game seem great but slammed it at the same time. 2k5 engine with 1000 new animations,including signature styles=next gen gameplay.

What I want to know is if the qb spy is fixed? Have they done anything about the disconnection issues associated with online play? Has the d-line glitch been taken care of?Has the corner route defense and overall db defensive play been improved?

[baandje]

He made the game seem great but slammed it at the same time. 2k5 engine with 1000 new animations=next gen gameplay.

What I want to know is if the qb spy is fixed? Has the d-line glitch been taken care of?Has the corner route defense and overal db defensive play been improved?
2K5 with 1000 new animations would be fine by me.

Oh, and does the CPU still draft only QB's, RB's, T's and DE's in the first round?! Wait a minute, that's right, no franchise... Hey, and maybe that's why: they couldn't figure out how to fix that, so they just scrapped it! :)

[fatman]

you can't take custom teams w/ created player online to prevent your team being all stacked w/ legends. It's just to make an even playing field. They probably could have found other ways to even it out, but obviously they didin't. I'm fine with that.

I'm excited that he said all the players have a sense of weight to them, and weight shifting as they move.

The guy doesn't have a gift for explanation however...to me it's unclear if there are playoffs or a championship game at the end of the season, he made it seem as if there isn't and that the 2k rep didin't see it as a big deal.
He also isn't very good at explaining gameplay - the only thing i think you can take away from what he said is that it's considerably more 'realistic' than madden (not saying much)

One thing that bohtered me was the shift in discussion from apf to madden when later this week it will be all madden. I wanted a descrition of the action on the field w/ all the detail they couldremember, plus any replays they might have seen etc.

I still am shocked 2k picked those guys to show the game to...WHY? why not someone from gamespot??? (who by the way have all-pro in #7 on the popularity scale for the 360 - the first tiime i've seen it crack the top ten)
it makes no sense to show the game to obvious madden fans.


btw, madden isn't even in the top ten right now

[alliance4g63]

Yea man REALLY,what the hell is 2k doing?!

Are they in so much financial trouble that they can't even make simple decisions these days? Does anyone know if these guys at allgames.com are even legitimate?

But I wouldn't rule it out.. It made no sense to release the same trailer as "Official" days later so them giving a relatively unknown site the first preview wouldn't actually suprise me these days.

[soda]

It's weird they keep saying how good amazing the gameplay is yet they feel the game is not good enough. They say if madden has a little bit of the gameplay it will be the better choice. How?!

[Fair One]

dude they had 2 to 3 years to get there game right. Thats no excuse they had plenty development time madden does there game a year at a time and 2k had from the end of 2k5 to get something going. If they can't compete thats there own fault and greg thomas needs to go manage a Mcdonalds it obviously less pressure


did you read the comment he made they said that they worked on it a little over a year so and nothing is official yet

[twsn88]

It's weird they keep saying how good amazing the gameplay is yet they feel the game is not good enough. They say if madden has a little bit of the gameplay it will be the better choice. How?!


exactly....would you take them seriously?

[Fair One]

they like madden thats all. I wanted to ask them was it a learning curb they would get use to in all pro? because the game plays alot different from madden. he mention that the field speed was smooth like the time from the snap to the end of the play. By what they were saying I am definitely buying the game. We know that the nfl 2k5 engine was great and the graphics were way beyond anything at that time. Next gen they said nba 2k7 was not next gen when it came out
I guess everyone has their own opinon

[totalownership]

Yea I can see the bias and while I appreciate the info I really don't think he is someone I would base a purchase off of.

What I'm confused about is the fact that you can't take your custom players online yet they say you have to create a team for online. Wouldn't that include custom players? Or are they just saying you put together a team of people with attributes already determined? Because if that is the case,I'm not dissapointed because that is what I thought it was supposed to be like all along.

I hate these people that keep touting like Madden's engine was brand new for next gen.. I still would get stuck behind lineman when running,db's still superman jumped and the game had stupid momentum..Tell me again what was new about that engine again?

He made the game seem great but slammed it at the same time. 2k5 engine with 1000 new animations,including signature styles=next gen gameplay.

What I want to know is if the qb spy is fixed? Have they done anything about the disconnection issues associated with online play? Has the d-line glitch been taken care of?Has the corner route defense and overall db defensive play been improved?


Co-sign to the nth degree. Everyone always thinks in absolutes. Madden engine is supposed to be next gen therefor it's supposed to be great. I found nothing at all great or next gen in the play of madden 07. NOTHING at all. All those reasons you mentioned above are so true. Getting stuck behind a lineman while running has to be the stupidest, laziest programming ever. Come on man it was 2006 and they still couldn't get rid of that? Get real. At least in NFL 2K5 you made progress and got an animation that made sense even though the situation didn't always make sense, lol. You STILL got minimal progress and you were moving FORWARD.

Also, I do believe that I read somewhere that there were things in the NFL 2K5 engine that they couldn't implement or something because of the hardware. I could have swore they said there was more to the engine than we were getting.

Now the dline glitch and NEEDS to be addressed. 2K doesn't get an excuse if they still let that in OR give us a REAL good explanation why it's allowed in the game. Also I hope the EQ on feature is still in. The game should be good enough without it but you never know. Cant hurt to include it I say.

[madehumble]

This is something I want everyone who think 2K makes the best sports games to listen to. Think about it , 2k has never let us down when it comes to football games or basketball games. Why do we as so called loyalist to football and 2k games ever think they would. A lot of people wanted too much to early and its not possible because even if they had 3 years to develop the game, it still was not enough time because they took much of the developing time signing athletes and getting around the NFL without being sued. These guys at 2K did a great job with this game and I' ll tell you the difference between a real 2k fan and jock riders. I didn't play madden after 2k5, but alot of you did thats why I an see this a nex gen title visually because even 2k5 didn't move like 2k8. So alot of 2k fans got their minds clouded by playing madden so be it. And as for allgames.com after that EA bias review they will be forever known as all lames.com . Holla!!!!!!!!

[alliance4g63]

Now the dline glitch and NEEDS to be addressed. 2K doesn't get an excuse if they still let that in OR give us a REAL good explanation why it's allowed in the game. Also I hope the EQ on feature is still in. The game should be good enough without it but you never know. Cant hurt to include it I say.

Yea the dline and online connections issues should be a top priority IMO. Especially the dline usage while the offense is in the shotgun formation.

I don't think the Eq on feature will be needed because all teams will be equal in a sense. We all get the same amount of legends(GSB). So they shouldn't penalize a player because he constructed his team better than his opponents'.

In about two weeks after release though,expect to see the same team combinations flood online. Because some no life will find the supposed perfect combination of players that seems to dominate.

[Repercussion39]

In about two weeks after release though,expect to see the same team combinations flood online. Because some no life will find the supposed perfect combination of players that seems to dominate.


im no no life.. I wont need to find the comination of players to dominate i already know it..
Im getting the 2 best safties in the game.. then ill just get a Agile back with a high Break tackle.. ima dominate :)

[Fair One]

here is his post another all games post

originally posted by allgames

isnt it possible that Madden is selling because people want the latest rosters and a game they can play on the 360? There are 10 million 360's out there. There are also a ton of Wii's.
It just seems weird that people pick apart madden as some horrible game but forget there is no alternative. Not everyone is content to play a game that is 3 years old with outdated rosters on the XBox.
I enjoyed 2K5, but I wanted to play football on my 360. Why does that make me a bias fanboy, it makes me a football fan IMO.
The thing is this game comes out in a month, you can rent it to see if you like it, then buy it to show support. This speculation and debate is all good but in reality everyone is going to have their own opinion based on what I'm reading here. Heck someone even thinks over the top stadium is a BIG DEAL.
As I said yesterday, if you love 2K5 you'll love All Pro because it's everything 2K5 had and MORE.
Edit/Delete Message

[Fair One]

All games responded to people that said they were updated rosters with this

originally posted by all games
I don't have an XBOX so updated rosters don't help me on the 360. If it were backward compatible I wouldn't have bought Madden period.

[Unforgiven]

I don't know why every is *****ing at 2k for not adding a franchise mode.

They had to sign over 240 legends INDIVDUALLY

They had to create a whole fictional league

They had to create all the stadiums

They added over 1000 animations

I'm proud of them for gettig all this stuff in... Madden has NFL to copy and has a lot of time to polish everything, and yet their franchise mode is still mediocre at best

Damn people get off 2k's balls ( we all know where that came from )

[Fair One]

I do not understand it everybody
is complaining just like a baby crying nothing is wrong with it its just crying UNTIL you put that slightly warm bottle(ALL PRO 2K8) in its mouth and then nap time. I GET IT EVERYONE'S WAITING FOR THAT BOTTLE

FREAKING BABIES

[MorningGlory]

I'm sooo glad they finally confirmed that they only worked on the game for a year and a half. Greg Thomas said it a while back, but apparently people read what they want. I knew this game may be underwhelming because of many many factors. They didn't work on it for as long as people thought; they had to totally create their own league; they had to sign the players; create the stadiums, etc. Everything had to be built from the ground up. And oh yea....it's their first football installment on a next-gen system. That is a big deal!!! Alot of people had their hopes way too high. I think it will be a solid game. But some of you were like, "This will be the best football game ever." It just didn't make sense and it was annoying when people assumed that they have been working on it for nearly 3 years. I've said it from the beginning and I'll say it again. APF 2k9 will be the game to see what 2k is made of. All the main grounds for this fictional league are made up. I'm sure they'll make a few more stadiums, but it won't be nearly as much. Like I said, the main grounds are now laid down and they can focus more on the features and graphics next time around. And on top of all that, they will be more familiar with the next-gen hardware. It's not an excuse...that's just how it is. I gave Madden 06 the same "pass" when it came out for 360 coz it was their first installment and it was a debut game. 2k will be fine.

[Fair One]

Quoted
APF 2k9 will be the game to see what 2k is made of. All the main grounds for this fictional league are made up. I'm sure they'll make a few more stadiums, but it won't be nearly as much. Like I said, the main grounds are now laid down and they can focus more on the features and graphics next time around. And on top of all that, they will be more familiar with the next-gen hardware. It's not an excuse...that's just how it is. I gave Madden 06 the same "pass" when it came out for 360 coz it was their first installment and it was a debut game. 2k will be fine.(Quoted)

If there is a 2k9 we have to support the game as far as sales so instead of bashing their first installment we should help them in promoting the game by word of mouth putting the game video on youtube,myspace,webpages etc to help them take two is rebuilding 2k never had the same resources madden has that leads to different promotion marketing.

This is similar to the rap industry compared to undergroung artist that do not get their shine. Madden is chingy with its single right therr and 2k my choice for a rapper Talib kweli his single Get By. Who sold more Chingy,
what song based on lyrics, production was better Talib

same thing different product

[MorningGlory]

^^^ I pretty much agree. I'm not bashing the game at all. I think it will be a solid game. I said that in my last post. I'm just saying that it isn't going to be "great." They have way too many hurdles to jump. Just because they made a great game last time around doesn't mean that they will make a great football game from here on out. The Beatles were a great band....but they didn't make a great album everytime. I think there will be a 2k9 regardless on how the sales for this game are. If this game sells poorly and then 2k9 does worse...then there will be something to worry about. But I agree that the more sales the better. And the more positive feedback about the game the better. It'll be fine.

[DA_Kenny]

It's weird they keep saying how good amazing the gameplay is yet they feel the game is not good enough. They say if madden has a little bit of the gameplay it will be the better choice. How?!

Thats what i noticed too!

Its weird, its like they are putting it down. Which made me thought he is getting paid by EA to say these things.

[The Madden Shutout]

good post, not sure who is who but lots of info discussed.