ILLEGAL Subs: Admin please address

[thePLAGUE]

Hey,
Are we allowed to do any subs at all?...If so, what are the guidelines?...People have started using Earl campbell as a short yardage QB...With my own team I can stop anybody but with those sucky teams you guys are giving us I just dont know...Please clarify this in the rules....

[Faithdown]

You can do whatever you want, they already stated its to hard to monitor.

No gameplay styles are banned, you can cheese to your hearts content BV.

[thePLAGUE]

You can do whatever you want, they already stated its to hard to monitor.

No gameplay styles are banned, you can cheese to your hearts content BV.



You liked how I neutralized your 4 gold and silver receivers with zones?...lol...U took me by surprise the first drive and you wouldnt have been blown out if you had used more than 3 plays...Go practice

[Faithdown]

You liked how I neutralized your 4 gold and silver receivers with zones?...lol...U took me by surprise the first drive and you wouldnt have been blown out if you had used more than 3 plays...Go practice

I liked how you ran the same play maybe 15 times.

I use my whole playbook, thanks.

[Tourney_Admin2]

We will be issuing some gameplay guidlines prior to the start of playoffs.

TA

[totalownership]

I hope this tourney is on legend difficulty.

[Tourney_Admin2]

This tourney will be played on All Pro difficulty.

TA

[Bowdown]

We will be issuing some gameplay guidlines prior to the start of playoffs.

TA

It would be nice to see what they are now instead of the beginning of the tourney.

Its going to be impossible to take anyones word in the tourney.

It doesn't do anyone justice if someone cheats and gets far enough to get DQ. The one's he beat already suffer the cheating and are out of the tourney. And the way the rosters are build the only other way is to sub players and play them out of position, I see it happening online already

[Valdarez]

There needs to be a guideline that players don't exploit the sideline kickoff bug that causes kickoff returners to run out of bounds on the kickoff or to run around in circles confused. I'm surprised we haven't had an update from 2k to patch that bug.

[Sdiddy]

That is buggy, but if you take control of the player yourself, you can avoid that easy, every time.

[CWSpartan9]

I think you should be able to do subs. Aside from putting Campbell at QB you should be able to flank out TEs and put them at FB and stuff like that....I dont think that is cheap, they are utilized like that in real life.

It would be nice to get an answer though. It would make a difference in team selection. Could we please get an anwere before we select our teams.

[thePLAGUE]

I think you should be able to do subs. Aside from putting Campbell at QB you should be able to flank out TEs and put them at FB and stuff like that....I dont think that is cheap, they are utilized like that in real life.

It would be nice to get an answer though. It would make a difference in team selection. Could we please get an anwere before we select our teams.


You make no sense, RBs are utilized as running QBS in real life i.e Tim Tebow...Based on your above reply thats ok cause its used in real life?....If a sub is used less than 1% any given sunday then its not justified...If I dont get an answer from the tourney guy soon am doing subs too...Am not scared of it but if its in it and allowed then am not, not using it.

[CWSpartan9]

Let me spell it out for you a little more clearly......I disagree with absurd subs like Earl Campbell at QB for one short yardage play, but I do think you should be able to put players in different positions that are legitimate. The examply I used was my TE split out, or lined up in the backfield, since I cant just motion to that from a single back formation. Now Tim Tebow is a QB sir, Earl Campbell is not, he would probabbly fumble the snap. Does that make any sense to you?

[Valdarez]

That is buggy, but if you take control of the player yourself, you can avoid that easy, every time.Agreed to some extent. Some players can plant it at the 1 to 3 yard line in the corner. Their guys are running straight at it and will pick it up, you have to run behind it, and then angle back towards the field to make sure you pick it up and don't run out of bounds. Needless to say, by the time you do this, you will make it to the 10 yard line or so. IMHO this is a bug. They need to provide a 2 set kick-off returns in order to cover those corner kicks, or they need to rewrite the AI so the returner doesn't run out of bounds while trying to catch the ball.

[MrUnpredictable]

yeah cuz i kick it to the side cuz its so easy to return and people never take control and he runs out of bounds all the time but they try it on me and i get yardage go figure

[Valdarez]

Yeah, a couple guys got some easy wins off of me because of it when I first started playing online. To date, exploiting this bug is the only thing I give a negative rating for other than disconnecting.

[BofaDeezNutts]

All out of position Subs should be outlawed.

Reason is, this game does not recognize these substitutions.

Another reason, when people do these subs they ussually do it in the same formation and keep doing the same formation over and over.

There are plays in the playbook that will line your up TE and/or HB out wide. That is how it should be done.

[CWSpartan9]

No there are not plays like that,it just excludes your TE on formations with no TE, which is worthless if you have a good TE. I believe that you are wrong and I dislike your name, you are not funny or cool....you are actually a pathetic loser.

[BofaDeezNutts]

I believe that you are wrong and I dislike your name, you are not funny or cool....you are actually a pathetic loser.

What does that have to do with anything?

And I am not wrong check out that cool new option everyone seems to forget about....I thinks it is called PLAYBOOK MANAGER.

EDIT: Didn't your parents care enough about you to teach you that You can't always judge a book by its cover

But, judge them by there actions. Well guess what that fact that you feel you need to insult me. Tells me all I need to know about you.

Thank you.

[MrUnpredictable]

I disagree I use ss browner who is like 6'2 235 as a olb linebacker...not only is he strong but he can read the run wrap up tackle and lay the big hit he has linebacker skills and build how is this a exploit sub:confused: ?

[BofaDeezNutts]

I disagree I use ss browner who is like 6'2 235 as a olb linebacker...not only is he strong but he can read the run wrap up tackle and lay the big hit he has linebacker skills and build how is this a exploit sub:confused: ?

I don't agree with that type of sub either but, it doesn't affect the game as much. My point is doing out of postition Subs on offense because, this game does not recognize them.

[BofaDeezNutts]

I disagree I use ss browner who is like 6'2 235 as a olb linebacker...not only is he strong but he can read the run wrap up tackle and lay the big hit he has linebacker skills and build how is this a exploit sub:confused: ?

Why not just use a Silver LB though?

Edit: Actually the more I think about this I am leaning towards it being un-SIM.

1st. Safetys can't play LB in real life.
2nd. It probably creates an unfair advantage for your opponent because, he is faster than any true LB should be.

Don't take my comments the wrong way. I am just kind of thinking out loud.

[MrUnpredictable]

because they dont cover the pass as well ... browner is basically equal to a gold lb with his coverage skills in that position...

[BenRichardSON]

Joey Browner at LB= Skill-less.

[Valdarez]

I have tried switching offensive players for defensive and vice versa, and it just doesn't pay off. CB's can't catch, so they suck at WR, WR's can't cover so they suck at CB position. Tackle's can't plow or tackle, DT's can't block. It's not worth a sub.

[BofaDeezNutts]

because they dont cover the pass as well ... browner is basically equal to a gold lb with his coverage skills in that position...

That is why they play the LB position.

[MrUnpredictable]

actually the rams moved a SS 2 LB 2years ago...and whats one of the most legendary plays the Fridge had...I beleive it was when he lined up over center...this is not a exploit it mismatches.if you coach a team u want the best person in the best spot. you dont limit your thoughts to just one position you want the best player on your roster in high school and college you play both sides of the ball...what about kordell stewart..sometimes you have to think out the box...and besides whats the difference from calling a prevent and aud to a 4-4...dont you now have db playing in lb slots am i suppose to call a time out so i actually have a lb in that spot ...i dont think so...or whats the diff between a bear or goadline formation dont you now have your secondary up on the d line should i then sub them out and put my d lineman in as secondary players i dont think so...people need to understand this is not an exploit you are simply putting the best person in the best spot...last point leonard little is one of the best de right now...he started out as a lb for the rams ...and also the rams moved a db to wr 2 yrs ago...so how is this unfair?

[thePLAGUE]

Bofa, its not that the game dosent recognize it, its because it creates a mismatch...TEs are faster than fullbacks and they can catch much better...If you put Coates in as a fullback and you pass to him no LB will be able to cover him 1-1...Its a mismatch...If you want a FB that can run routes and catch the ball then pick one...Once in a blue moon players are switched around in real life but its usually for one play or in case of an injury...If they dont clearly outline this rule am going to do what I need to do....With my own created team I believe am GOD but with these pansy tourney teams I feel vulnerable.

[CWSpartan9]

The substition manager is how you do subs, you are correct, but isnt this what people are saying should be illegal? This is the tool that allows people to put jerry rice at rb or something stupid like that. It is the same tool that allows you to fully utilize your players in a fair way.

I personally think all subs should be allowed because the worst case scenario for cheaters is QB sneaks and WR at TE. People who use them correctly would suffer far more of a burden than people of cheat with substitutions.

[BofaDeezNutts]

I can never seem to make my self clear on this issue. So, I give up.

Here is my last attempt:
There is a guy playing online that has 3 TE's......Ditka, Coates, and Christensen I think.

Well guess what he subs all 3 TE's in at the WR position which is complete crap and I will tell you why.

When you see that this guy has picked a 2RB and 3WR set but, when his players come to the LOS you see 3 star TE's on the field. Well if i chose a dime package to put some cover guys on the field to cover 3 WR's then I am S.O.L. if he decides to run the ball because, those TE's will plow right over my DB's. There are many other examples also.

Bottom line is that it is a cheap tactic to gain an unfair advantage and I will be more than happy to show anyone this in a game just send me a friend request.

[CWSpartan9]

I understand that, but none of these teams have 3 legend TE's.........I do agree with you on that point though.

[BofaDeezNutts]

I understand that, but none of these teams have 3 legend TE's.........I do agree with you on that point though.

True.......I was thinking more in general than the tournament.....sorry. But, I am sure people will still find a way to abuse these type of SUBS.

[verydry]

they do that because they don't have enough skill. in other word, they can't beat us without taking advantage on something. i mean this game is pretty fair since we can create our own team. my take is let them do whatever they want, CHEAP PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE

[totalownership]

This tourney will be played on All Pro difficulty.

TA
HUGE MISTAKE! Oh well, I guess 2K wants the game to be as arcade as possible. Guess I should now change the team I wasted all this time with in hopes this was going to be a skill tournament. Time to get OJ :(

[TVnation53]

We will be issuing some gameplay guidlines prior to the start of playoffs.

TA

When and where will these rules be posted?

[Gunner969]

Joey Browner at LB= Skill-less.

Why? If he's playing LB, it means he's not playing SS. One position suffers no matter what.

What if the D calls a nickel package, and Browner plays the Nickel-back position? That has the same effect as him playing LB in a regular 4-3. Is that skill-less as well?

I don't understand what people have against subs. There are only 11 legends per team. What does it matter which 11 positions are taken up by the 11 legends??

[GhostRider]

I don't do stuff like that, but I am not sure it is truly an exploit.....

[Gunner969]

I can never seem to make my self clear on this issue. So, I give up.

Here is my last attempt:
There is a guy playing online that has 3 TE's......Ditka, Coates, and Christensen I think.

Well guess what he subs all 3 TE's in at the WR position which is complete crap and I will tell you why.

When you see that this guy has picked a 2RB and 3WR set but, when his players come to the LOS you see 3 star TE's on the field. Well if i chose a dime package to put some cover guys on the field to cover 3 WR's then I am S.O.L. if he decides to run the ball because, those TE's will plow right over my DB's. There are many other examples also.

Bottom line is that it is a cheap tactic to gain an unfair advantage and I will be more than happy to show anyone this in a game just send me a friend request.

I agree that it's an unfair tactic, but I don't think it impact game play that much. Why not simply assume that he will ALWAYS have his 3 star TE's on the field regardless of formation? If he happens to came out with generic WRs, your D against the three star TEs should still work.

[Tourney_Admin2]

When and where will these rules be posted?

Gameplay rules were emailed to all qualified participants along with their next match time. We cannot monitor the games so we were not able to make strict rules.

TA

[thePLAGUE]

So we can do any subs?...ok kool...I might play some WRS as Cornerbacks...


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[Tbonious Prime]

i normally only play in 3 reciever sets, and on my normal team i dont have a tight end, but since most of these teams have tight ends on them i'm gonna sub my TE in at WR, i know some of yall think its cheese or whatever, but i'm putting it out there now, that i will have a TE at reciever

[markbarr]

see reply from Tourney Adm below:

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 988

New Gameplay Rule: Illegal Substitions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Illegal Substitutions: Players will be allowed to make most substitutions. For instance, you are allowed to sub your ILB for your OLB. However, substituting players for completely different positions will be banned and may result in a disqualification. For example, we do not want to see Earl Campbell at QB or your right guard at safety. If you are not sure what is an illegal substitution, you can ask on the either the contact page (http://apf2k8tournament.2ksports.com/contact.html) or the forums.

[Valdarez]

I wish they would have let us know this before the tournament, if subbing a HB or a FB for a WR is illegal, then I definitely would have picked another team. :(

[Valdarez]

I sent a question via the contact page yesterday about substitutions, but I have not received a reply...

[BofaDeezNutts]

i normally only play in 3 reciever sets, and on my normal team i dont have a tight end, but since most of these teams have tight ends on them i'm gonna sub my TE in at WR, i know some of yall think its cheese or whatever, but i'm putting it out there now, that i will have a TE at reciever


Why not try different formations with a TE.....instead of running the same 3 WR set the entire game?

[BofaDeezNutts]

see reply from Tourney Adm below:

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 988

New Gameplay Rule: Illegal Substitions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. Illegal Substitutions: Players will be allowed to make most substitutions. For instance, you are allowed to sub your ILB for your OLB. However, substituting players for completely different positions will be banned and may result in a disqualification. For example, we do not want to see Earl Campbell at QB or your right guard at safety. If you are not sure what is an illegal substitution, you can ask on the either the contact page (http://apf2k8tournament.2ksports.com/contact.html) or the forums.


Thank you....it is about time.

But 2k, we need a list of what is allowed. Because, alot of these gamers don't understand real football and don't realize what a realistic Substitution is.

[Valdarez]

Thank you....it is about time.

But 2k, we need a list of what is allowed. Because, alot of these gamers don't understand real football and don't realize what a realistic Substitution is.I tried googling for NFL and illegal substitutions, and I couldn't find anything that would help me understand. If anyone has links, I'm more than happy to read up on it to learn about what is and isn't illegal. This is a little off topic, but if anyone has links to any websites that discuss offensive or defensive philosophy, I'd be very interested in reading up on that as well.