how do you stop 5 WRs set?

[verydry]

i played a guy use 5 wrs every single play. he had rice, maynard, coates, harper, taylor. i mean, it's hard to stop....he lined up maynard, rice on one side, coates, harper, taylor on the other side. i couldn't stop him at all even though i won by one point. so, how do you stop this kind of offense effectively?

[stl1fanman]

I'd mix up the zone coverage and blitz 1 DB.

[kcxiv]

I am bringing Dexter Manely manually. If they dont like it, to bad.

[acoosticant]

If you played zone against a good player running a 5WR set it would be the end of you. If he has top notch receivers the only way to really consistently shut it down is 5-Attribute created CBs. Unfortunately the pass coverage in this game is lame. The strength of the offensive players far out weighs that of the defense. I was actually going to quit the game over it and then I found created CBs and life has been good since. They actually play defense like a gold corner should play (for the most part).

[totalownership]

Manually blitz the living snot outta that guy. You will get burned but you will get him. Better than doing nothing and getting burned with NO HOPE of stopping him.

[BofaDeezNutts]

i played a guy use 5 wrs every single play. he had rice, maynard, coates, harper, taylor. i mean, it's hard to stop....he lined up maynard, rice on one side, coates, harper, taylor on the other side. i couldn't stop him at all even though i won by one point. so, how do you stop this kind of offense effectively?


If he was running 5 WR sets Coates should not be on the field. But, unfortunately 90% of the people online feel the need to sub the TE at the WR position rather than choose the correct formations from there playbook.

Who was his QB?

[NeRD]

The pass coverage in this game is unbalanced. DB's dont jam half the time, or if they do they like stop after jamming them, giving the WR a 1-2 steps and essentially getting burned. VERY frustrating. Or some of the ways they try to defend a pass. And a LB in pass coverage, HA!

[tyrell2110]

You should either run 2-Man in the nickel package( thats where everyone except the safeties play man and the safeties play zone or cover 3 zone

[TheBigBamboo]

If he was running 5 WR sets Coates should not be on the field. But, unfortunately 90% of the people online feel the need to sub the TE at the WR position rather than choose the correct formations from there playbook.

Who was his QB?



You're retarded Bofa.. Throw away your sim card you know nothing about it! You are just a whiner. There are plenty of empty sets that put a TE in there and there are bunch sets that do the same. It shows as 5 wide and 4 wide on the defense side.
Besides what's the difference if someone puts a Te at WR.. It happens all the time in the NFL.

I remember you now from 2k5. You were one of those drop glitchers.
Get a life and realize this is a video game. If you want to play sim go suit up and play outside for real.
Sim is just a stupid philosophy. I have never played anyone on here that hasn't exploited what the AI offers.

[NeRD]

^very true, we all use the bugs to an advantage at some point. No need to start a fight tho.

[Tbonious Prime]

i'd play cover 2 man and shadow my corners to the inside and blitz my free safety, it will force them to make a good throw over the top of your corners under pressure, may get you burnt a couple times, but i play a lot of people that do 5 wide, and it usually works well

p.s. blitz the safety from the widest side of the field to prevent the flat play from being caught in bounds

[verydry]

If he was running 5 WR sets Coates should not be on the field. But, unfortunately 90% of the people online feel the need to sub the TE at the WR position rather than choose the correct formations from there playbook.

Who was his QB?

he used jim harbaugh. i would say 99.9%, he subbed Rice in as HB line up on the right side slot

[verydry]

i'd play cover 2 man and shadow my corners to the inside and blitz my free safety, it will force them to make a good throw over the top of your corners under pressure, may get you burnt a couple times, but i play a lot of people that do 5 wide, and it usually works well

p.s. blitz the safety from the widest side of the field to prevent the flat play from being caught in bounds

i tried blitz, i send my OLB almost every play but didn't work, cuz he dropped back for like 10 to 15 yards every play

[Tbonious Prime]

i tried blitz, i send my OLB almost every play but didn't work, cuz he dropped back for like 10 to 15 yards every play

u have to manually blitz with a fast player, thats why i say with a legend FS, even a bronze would do the trick, but it has to be a manual blitz, the players in this game dont blitz very well on thier own

[thePLAGUE]

I will use the bend but dont break philosophy...Let him get all the way to your 15 yard line and then start zoning...Pick a 3 - 2 formation with 6 DBS and have them all sit in the endzone in zone coverage...Control one of the LBs and have him pursue the most potent route

[alliance4g63]

You sure it wasnt me you played.. Because I just played you and lost by a point because of a blocked xp.

Anyway.. I have shut down someone that used 5 wide every play. Most people that use it really aren't that good but the set can be very intimidating. What you have to do is be very creative with your defensive play calling and try to make him not see the same thing twice. Most people that use that type of play are still very one dimensional with their passing. Look for where he likes to throw and be biased to that.

Manual blitz and d-line exploits..pfffft. And you call yourselves sim players :rollseyes:

[tpaterniti]

I check the defensive matchups and if I see 4 WRs and a TE I quit before the game starts because if you are playing a good player it is impossible to stop, simple as that. That is just one of this game's flaws.

[acoosticant]

i'd play cover 2 man and shadow my corners to the inside and blitz my free safety, it will force them to make a good throw over the top of your corners under pressure, may get you burnt a couple times, but i play a lot of people that do 5 wide, and it usually works well

p.s. blitz the safety from the widest side of the field to prevent the flat play from being caught in bounds

This strategy actually works well. You ran this setup against me and you were the toughest guys I've faced to score on (especially since I like to throw over the middle). I think I eventually ended up moving the ball by calling audibles to out routes when I saw you in inside coverage but you adjusted well.

[Tbonious Prime]

Manual blitz and d-line exploits..pfffft. And you call yourselves sim players :rollseyes:



i never claimed to be a sim nazi, i'll play anybody no matter what they do, and i think that you need a good manual blitz from time to time, doesnt lead to many sacks, but it puts some fear into that QB on the other side of the line just seeing that manually controlled player headed at them with the turbo ring pulsating

[Tbonious Prime]

This strategy actually works well. You ran this setup against me and you were the toughest guys I've faced to score on (especially since I like to throw over the middle). I think I eventually ended up moving the ball by calling audibles to out routes when I saw you in inside coverage but you adjusted well.


you are really good though and got a lot of experience under your belt, everybody won't be able to adjust as well as you did, i just couldnt keep maynard in check that game, thats the best he has ever played against me, he usually stinks the place up

[acoosticant]

you are really good though and got a lot of experience under your belt, everybody won't be able to adjust as well as you did, i just couldnt keep maynard in check that game, thats the best he has ever played against me, he usually stinks the place up

Yea...I think the majority of people don't even pay attention to what type of coverage the d-backs are in. And if a guy is running a 5WR set with that power house set of receivers, he is probably not very good anyway (or he would see it as a waste).

[Tbonious Prime]

Yea...I think the majority of people don't even pay attention to what type of coverage the d-backs are in. And if a guy is running a 5WR set with that power house set of receivers, he is probably not very good anyway (or he would see it as a waste).

yea, 5 recieving threats is crazy, especially since most of them just pass to the same guy over and over, the other 4 recievers get left out in the rain for the most part, even when they are wide open

[BofaDeezNutts]

You're retarded Bofa.. Throw away your sim card you know nothing about it! You are just a whiner. There are plenty of empty sets that put a TE in there and there are bunch sets that do the same. It shows as 5 wide and 4 wide on the defense side.
Besides what's the difference if someone puts a Te at WR.. It happens all the time in the NFL.

First of all let me explain to everyone else why you have decide to come on here and attack me. :box: Internet tough guy:rotfl:

You lost a game to me the other day because, you failed to put any points on the board during your final drive which would have won the game for you. Then after the game you gave me a poor sportsmanship rating.......and there was no way I showed any type of poor sportsmanship towards you. The only questionable thing I did was quick snap you 1 time. Which was minimal compared to all the quick snapping you did prior to me doing 1.

Big Bamboo = Sore loser

There are formations that will put the TE in the slot or even line him up out wide and I don't understand why people wont use the formations. Instead, they use the same (there favorite) formation the whole game which they decide to sub a TE at the WR position. So, while I am playing defense and I see that someone has picked a formation 4WR 1RB (0 Te's)......I choose my defense accordingly, but when The teams come to the LOS I see a TE on the field that should not be there and of course my defense play that I picked will not be ready either.


I remember you now from 2k5. You were one of those drop glitchers.
Get a life and realize this is a video game. If you want to play sim go suit up and play outside for real.
Sim is just a stupid philosophy. I have never played anyone on here that hasn't exploited what the AI offers.

-You never played me on 2K5 and I never drop glitched anyone.........if you were to ever see my record on 2k5 I had maybe 3-5 drops.

-I know this is a video game you fuqqin moron........you showed me that on my first drive of the game when you decided to use a glitch against me.

-I have never exploited the A.I. knowingly.....if I did......please explain how?
If you can't then your last statement is complete Bullshat.

p.s. Out of 350 games I have quit 2 and dropped 1 on purpose.

[Valdarez]

I like playing Sim, but I don't see anything wrong with putting a TE at WR, but maybe that's because I do it. After my experiments with scrubs at catching last night (in practice they averaged about 25% catches), you have to make the best use of what you have. I even put my HB in to catch, especially if he has soft hands (Megget, Tony Nathan), on some of the sets.

[BofaDeezNutts]

^
Stuff like this makes it very hard for someone who enjoys paying defense to play defense.

It is a personnel issue....that the game does not recognizw.

If you choose a 5 WR set, I will choose my defense accordingly........but, when these out of position substitutions are made there will not be 5 WR's on the field like the formation picked shows. There will be a TE and thurman thomas lined up as a WR.

I really love the people that have 2 TE's on there team and still have trouble running the ball out of a jumbo package......So, they will resort to going 4 WR and 5 WR wide (atleast that is what the formation shows) with to TE's lined up as WR's.

The bottom line there is no reason to use these type of subs to get the best out of your legend players because, there are formations that will put your TE and even your HB in the slot or even out wide.

[Valdarez]

Bofa, you mentioned before that you call a defense based on a formation, a 4 WR formation for example. I don't get the difference there. I mean, if you substitute them, they are still acting as WR's. You called a defense to play against a WR, which is a receiver that is going to run a route and try to catch a pass. So what's the difference? How does that in any way affect your defensive play calling?

[LATECH06]

ohh, ohh!!!!!!!

I see you are still the sheriff of the "Sim Police"

[BofaDeezNutts]

Bofa, you mentioned before that you call a defense based on a formation, a 4 WR formation for example. I don't get the difference there. I mean, if you substitute them, they are still acting as WR's. You called a defense to play against a WR, which is a receiver that is going to run a route and try to catch a pass. So what's the difference? How does that in any way affect your defensive play calling?


Then I end up with a 5'10 CB covering a 6'5 TE or even Mike Ditka who has a 99" vertical leap.

Or they decide to run the ball out of a spread formation of 4WR and run the ball and of course the TE's run smack over the DB that should be matched up against a WR.

Then if you pick a man defense it matches up a CB against that TE because it is suppose to be a WR. And then the extra Linebacker gets matched up one one against a WR.


Iknow what you are going to say go to the defense matchup........I should not have to do this if the players are in there correct position.

[FLAxWLESS]

Bofa, you mentioned before that you call a defense based on a formation, a 4 WR formation for example. I don't get the difference there. I mean, if you substitute them, they are still acting as WR's. You called a defense to play against a WR, which is a receiver that is going to run a route and try to catch a pass. So what's the difference? How does that in any way affect your defensive play calling?

He has no logic is what I have found.

I really hope this sim police thing is a shtick if not it is pretty sad.

I mean if someone subs a TE at WR... like you said you are still defending against a passing formation. NO difference if it's a WR or a TE as far as the goal of the defense.... PREVENT THE PASS!!

If you actually call the right defense to that play then it would be better for you because you would have replaced that slow LB for a CB.

[LATECH06]

ohh, ohh!!!!!!!

I see you are still the sheriff of the "Sim Police"


:dance: :dance:

[BofaDeezNutts]

ohh, ohh!!!!!!!

I see you are still the sheriff of the "Sim Police"


Yes.....I can be a SIM NAZI at times. But, that is because , I understand this game and I don't play defense using my DE the whole game I get very involved in making plays on defense.

Are you still the guy that cried for over a week because you got booted from the game stop tournament for glitch?
Yes you are.
Go somewhere else you little cheater

[Gunner969]

IMO, putting TE at WR is ok because it does not impact the defense's play calling.

Putting WR at TE or WR at HB or TE at HB is NOT ok because it impacts the defenses play calling.

Then again, I don't like the Sim Police, and will just ignore someone if I don't like what they do.

I played some guy who had "Jeremey Shockey" as a DE. He was pretty useless. :)

[BofaDeezNutts]

He has no logic is what I have found.

I really hope this sim police thing is a shtick if not it is pretty sad.

I mean if someone subs a TE at WR... like you said you are still defending against a passing formation. NO difference if it's a WR or a TE as far as the goal of the defense.... PREVENT THE PASS!!

If you actually call the right defense to that play then it would be better for you because you would have replaced that slow LB for a CB.


This coming from someone who puts a WR at RB. I have plenty of logic.....evidently you don't.

[LATECH06]

Yes.....I can be a SIM NAZI at times. But, that is because , I understand this game and I don't play defense using my DE the whole game I get very involved in making plays on defense.

Are you still the guy that cried for over a week because you got booted from the game stop tournament for glitch?
Yes you are.
Go somewhere else you little cheater


Ohh, ohh. Nice one. Do you want a bannana????:D

[Rhode Island]

I subbed my TE in a wide out slot simply because I dont trust my generics to catch the ball.

Is there a difference like say how Reggie Bush line up all over the field ?

[tpaterniti]

Instead, they use the same (there favorite) formation the whole game which they decide to sub a TE at the WR position.

This is a gross generalization. I sub TEs at WR and I probably use more formations than anyone on here. The fact is that the formations are somewhat limited.

[LATECH06]

I subbed my TE in a wide out slot simply because I dont trust my generics to catch the ball.

Is there a difference like say how Reggie Bush line up all over the field ?


I will give you some advise. STOP listening to Boffa, he is nothing but a moron who still wishes he was playing pamper league football. There is nothing wrong with using your running back as a slot receiver. I see this done plenty of times in the NFL.

Ohh, Ohh, get a grip.

[FLAxWLESS]

This coming from someone who puts a WR at RB. I have plenty of logic.....evidently you don't.

Sure.

I'm a flexible gamer.
You have one mind set and just rationalize to justify your style of play.

If I was any bit a cheeser I wouldn't have a 90% feedback in about 300 games played.

[TheBigBamboo]

First of all let me explain to everyone else why you have decide to come on here and attack me. :box: Internet tough guy:rotfl:

You lost a game to me the other day because, you failed to put any points on the board during your final drive which would have won the game for you. Then after the game you gave me a poor sportsmanship rating.......and there was no way I showed any type of poor sportsmanship towards you. The only questionable thing I did was quick snap you 1 time. Which was minimal compared to all the quick snapping you did prior to me doing 1.

Big Bamboo = Sore loser

There are formations that will put the TE in the slot or even line him up out wide and I don't understand why people wont use the formations. Instead, they use the same (there favorite) formation the whole game which they decide to sub a TE at the WR position. So, while I am playing defense and I see that someone has picked a formation 4WR 1RB (0 Te's)......I choose my defense accordingly, but when The teams come to the LOS I see a TE on the field that should not be there and of course my defense play that I picked will not be ready either.



-You never played me on 2K5 and I never drop glitched anyone.........if you were to ever see my record on 2k5 I had maybe 3-5 drops.

-I know this is a video game you fuqqin moron........you showed me that on my first drive of the game when you decided to use a glitch against me.

-I have never exploited the A.I. knowingly.....if I did......please explain how?
If you can't then your last statement is complete Bullshat.

p.s. Out of 350 games I have quit 2 and dropped 1 on purpose.


Boffa -- you are a whiner and you did drop glitch in 2k5. It doesn't show under drops or quits and you know that.

10 minutes of pausing the game ( I should have quit and taken the win)
replay every play
out patterns consistantly
running play clock down every play
quick snap
all of which goes against your sim rules and all of which you did

And what do you have me on ? One time using a DE.. WOW
I really don't care about a loss in lobby because I play lobby to practice things. Get in a league where everyone plays by the same rules and we will see.... I gave you neg feed because all your stupid replays, pausing the game for 10 minutes, and I knew you would give that to me.. I really don't care you can do anything you want when playing me, but don't come on the boards and talk about how people are cheese this and cheese that.. Basically you are a hypocrite.

I told Heaven you were a big whiner. I can't stand players like you because you complain about everything. Totally takes the fun out of the game.

[Hotsuma]

http://www.hittmenndjslive.com/app/resources/images/219-Souljah%20Boy.bmp

[kcxiv]

Yes.....I can be a SIM NAZI at times. But, that is because , I understand this game and I don't play defense using my DE the whole game I get very involved in making plays on defense.

Are you still the guy that cried for over a week because you got booted from the game stop tournament for glitch?
Yes you are.
Go somewhere else you little cheater
If someone is trying to go all Tom Brady on me, i will use my DE. I played you though. You know what i can do in game.

Some people just look for mismatches Their style is pretty much a run and shoot offense without the run part. lol

I will play as sim as possible until someone gives me a reason not to against them. This doesnt mean i wont bust out my money plays more then i should. Sometimes you gotta. lol

[BofaDeezNutts]

Sure.

I'm a flexible gamer.
You have one mind set and just rationalize to justify your style of play.

If I was any bit a cheeser I wouldn't have a 90% feedback in about 300 games played.

Then why are you complaining about getting negative feedback.

[verydry]

You sure it wasnt me you played.. Because I just played you and lost by a point because of a blocked xp.

Anyway.. I have shut down someone that used 5 wide every play. Most people that use it really aren't that good but the set can be very intimidating. What you have to do is be very creative with your defensive play calling and try to make him not see the same thing twice. Most people that use that type of play are still very one dimensional with their passing. Look for where he likes to throw and be biased to that.

Manual blitz and d-line exploits..pfffft. And you call yourselves sim players :rollseyes:

yea, i think you are the one that i played. :thumbsup:

[BofaDeezNutts]

Boffa -- you are a whiner and you did drop glitch in 2k5. It doesn't show under drops or quits and you know that.

You sir are a liar. I didn't even know you could drop glitch without it effecting your record.


10 minutes of pausing the game ( I should have quit and taken the win)

I paused once to show you not to use the D-line glitch against me again. And to check a couple other times to see if you were still doing it. And to send you a couple messages apologizing for the slow playcalling. total about 6 minutes because, I type slow using the controller.

replay every play
Another lie.

out patterns consistantly
I ran that play maybe 5 times at most. Funny for you to say this when Walter payton was your leading reciever with 9 catches and thrown to 11 times. Screens and and throwing to him in the flats. WOW...it takes alot of skill to throw to payton in the flats.

running play clock down every play

I was not doing this on purpose and when I realized that the clock was running down to around 10-15 seconds each play, I sent you a message apologizing and let you know that I was a little "tipsy" from watching the skins game and my thinking was a little slower than usual. Did your dumbazz even look at what the total TOP was at the end of the game? I guess not because you had the ball for 11:50 and I had it for 8:10....which means you must have been running the clock down.
quick snapping
LMFAO.....I quick snapped you one time during the whole game and it was after you quick snapped me atleast 5 times. Which was funny because, you paused and unpaused the game about 30 times in a row after that as if you were not doing it to me. me quick snapping 1 time was very minimal to the amount of quick snaps you did.

all of which goes against your sim rules and all of which you did
The only thing remotely close to not being SIM that I did was quick snap 1 time during the whole game. Which, was after you did it to me atleast 5 times.

And what do you have me on ? One time using a DE.. WOW
I really don't care about a loss in lobby because I play lobby to practice things. Get in a league where everyone plays by the same rules and we will see.... I gave you neg feed because all your stupid replays, pausing the game for 10 minutes, and I knew you would give that to me.. I really don't care you can do anything you want when playing me, but don't come on the boards and talk about how people are cheese this and cheese that.. Basically you are a hypocrite.
You only used the d-line glitch once because, the first time you did it I showed you a replay to let you know I knew what you were doing so, of course you only used it once. I paused the game for a total of 6 mins and most of them were to send you messages apologizing for the slow play calling.....Although one message was to tell you to stop whining about the"1" quick snap I did the entire game when you did atleast 5.

You have not made one true statement about anything that I did was un SIM.......the only thing wrong I did was quick snap you "1" time.......which I did not feel guilty of because, you did it to me on numerous occasions before I did it that 1 time.

I told Heaven you were a big whiner. I can't stand players like you because you complain about everything. Totally takes the fun out of the game.

first of all I am a grown man and I don't whine............2nd, I never complained about anything during our game.....I even sent you couple messages apologizing because, for the first quarter I realized my play calling was a little slow.

I find it funny that your dumb azz even came on here to bring it up because, I was not going to say anything about it until you decided to pop off at the mouth. I was also not going to give you a negative rating until I seen that you gave me one....SORE LOSER

LOL....YOU ARE NOT SO GOOD WITHOUT YOUR D-LINE GLITCH PLAY ARE YOU :)

[tpaterniti]

Will you tell us what he was doing so we can participate in the discussion? Was he doing the twist stunt with the fan, was he moving LBs on either side of the center, was he moving his DE right behind his DT? Some of these like the twist stunt which people called a glitch for a long time have a simple fix, pass protect to the side of the defender and the C picks up the guy looping around almost every time (at least 9 out of 10). But maybe he was doing something esle? We won't know until you tell us. And as fun as it is to watch you to go at it, maybe a little outside perspective would help.

[brownster14]

^^^
lol...it's been entertaining all day..... made the time go by pretty fast!!!!!!

[TheBigBamboo]

Actually I didn't do any D-line glitch as he says. One time I was cycling through players and I landed on the De. He pushed his way passed the OL while Boffa was doing a 7 step drop to through one of his out patterns. I never move my DE before the snap. It's nothing, not a twist not anything except using Manley's speed and strength to try and put pressure on the QB..
Here -- Use fan -- take control of DE ( manley) -- as soon as the ball is snaped rush diagnal inward or go sideline and then in...You will get in sometimes.
That's the big glitch and now you know how to do it..
Go practice....

Boffa-
You are a grown man and a whiner. It is possible to be both.

OUT Pattern pass was your only passing play.
You never sent me one message and paused the game close to ten minutes.
You replayed every single offensive play I did that was successful.
You quick snapped.
You ran the play clock out.
I forgot to mention NO MAX PASS, and moving your defenders all over the place to create computer AI confusion.
How do you check what rating someone gave you before you give a rating?
Yes you did all the unsim things you cry about. I am tired of the SIM BS..... No one is SIM and everyone is SIM.
It's all in the eye of the beholder..
If you are a grown man than act like one and stop whining about how people play a videogame, stop being a liar, play the game and shut up! What did you beat me by? 2 points big deal....Everyone that knows me knows I play leagues hard and lobby half ***.
I don't care what you say. This has nothing to do about losing.
Here " I am an UNSIM Cheeser!" be afraid.......

[tpaterniti]

http://images.inmagine.com/img/moodboard/mb504/mwi11200029.jpg

[GoodSense]

Yea...I think the majority of people don't even pay attention to what type of coverage the d-backs are in. And if a guy is running a 5WR set with that power house set of receivers, he is probably not very good anyway (or he would see it as a waste).

Hey! Don't talk about Brady and BeliCHEAT like that! :lol:

Seriously...
I think the player needs to let the gameplay dictate the strategy.
There is and nor should there be a ONE cure all solution.
It depends on the offense he is facing and the weapons he has on defense.

Like someone said before switch it up.
Despite what people believe the AI works for you on offense if the defense keeps calling the same play over and over and over. So I say for him to mix it up.

Bring pressure.
Examine tendencies.
And of course score for himself as well.
If he can run a slow paced game successful and still score then do so.

This doesn't mean it is easy, but the game shouldn't' be easy.
Also practice your defense against 5 WR sets and see how he does.
Player Factor: What works well for one player might not for another.

[studbucket]

^
Stuff like this makes it very hard for someone who enjoys paying defense to play defense.

It is a personnel issue....that the game does not recognizw.

If you choose a 5 WR set, I will choose my defense accordingly........but, when these out of position substitutions are made there will not be 5 WR's on the field like the formation picked shows. There will be a TE and thurman thomas lined up as a WR.

I really love the people that have 2 TE's on there team and still have trouble running the ball out of a jumbo package......So, they will resort to going 4 WR and 5 WR wide (atleast that is what the formation shows) with to TE's lined up as WR's.

The bottom line there is no reason to use these type of subs to get the best out of your legend players because, there are formations that will put your TE and even your HB in the slot or even out wide.

For what it's worth, the Broncos used to put Shannon Sharpe in the slot all the time, as do other teams with talented TEs. I see nothing wrong with putting Sharpe at WR 3 or 4 if there is no TE in the set. It created matchup problems for the defense, which is what strategizing on offense is all about.

[dj Live]

I dont always look at nor care what formation my opponent comes out in. I've played guys who on 3rd and long come out in a jumbo or 2 wide receiver set vs a 3 or 4 wide set. Depending on the yards needed I will be in a Nickle or Dime formation so really doesnt matter who is where. first down is the only down to really focus on formation but you can tell pretty quick what your opponent likes to do and make the adjustment from there.

I have seen some crazy subs of late but it really hasnt effected me one way or other. I have won a good portion of those games based on my play calling.

TE's at FB, WR, T, playing guard on the FG team, playing on the kickoff team, etc...I just play my game and see what happens.

[Codenamemighty]

i played a guy use 5 wrs every single play. he had rice, maynard, coates, harper, taylor. i mean, it's hard to stop....he lined up maynard, rice on one side, coates, harper, taylor on the other side. i couldn't stop him at all even though i won by one point. so, how do you stop this kind of offense effectively?



Hello My fellow Friends and Gamers. I also played a Guy who used the 5 WR set and that was the last time he will ever play me using that set. At first I was wondering what to do because I cold not double team and that does leave the QB by himself without an extra blocker. The key to shutting down the 5WR is Prevent defense. At first I started using Hail mary defense but he would just throw underneath routes. So I kept playing and finally I got an advantage. Use Prevent defense and select 3 tight. If you dont see this defense on your screen you might need to go and add more Defensives plays to your team. I added all the defense and offense plays to my team. Try using 3 tight in prevent and you can also use 3 Off in prevent. It works like a charm because you still have a middle line backer who is free to defend or rush the QB. And since his running back is out on the pass a CB is already covering the RB. So basically you can run at the QB untouched.....Have fun and I hope this help

[alliance4g63]

yea, i think you are the one that i played. :thumbsup:

Ok so to get this thread back on topic......

I use Marino at qb with Rice,Maynard,Coates and Alvin Harper. I dont just run 5 wide but I do lots of formations with no back.. The reason I adopted this style of play is matchups. And if I get negative feedback for this then so be it but I've still managed to keep 94% this whole time so I must not be doing too much wrong.

And if you are the guy I remember,u had quite a few legends in the secondary. Your problem was using the safety. I would overload that side with 3 deep routes that all went in different directions,making to have to make decision on who you wanted to cover. When u made that decision,I threw away from you.

It's hard to stop but so is the combination of Ditka and Coates. That is a defensive matchup nightmare,especially when u only have a bronze LB. But guess what, I was able to contain him. Bend dont break. Simple simple simple. IT DOESNT TAKE PLAYING CHEAP TO MATCH UP WITH SOMEONE...U MANUAL BLITZERS AND DLINE USERS I'M LOOKING AT YOU!

[alliance4g63]

Forgot to mention....

Do you guys know that there are formations that put a Rb or TE split as a Wr? So unless u see them go into the menus and actually sub a Rb/Te for Wr,don't be so quick to assume.

[BofaDeezNutts]

Forgot to mention....

Do you guys know that there are formations that put a Rb or TE split as a Wr? So unless u see them go into the menus and actually sub a Rb/Te for Wr,don't be so quick to assume.

I know there are formations that do this for you. As I have said that is the way it should be done.

When a guy chooses a 4 WR 1 RB set and I see 2 star WR's and 2 star TE's come to the line of scrimmage, even I am smart enough to figure out how this happened.

[BofaDeezNutts]

Actually I didn't do any D-line glitch as he says. One time I was cycling through players and I landed on the De. He pushed his way passed the OL while Boffa was doing a 7 step drop to through one of his out patterns. I never move my DE before the snap. It's nothing, not a twist not anything except using Manley's speed and strength to try and put pressure on the QB..
Here -- Use fan -- take control of DE ( manley) -- as soon as the ball is snaped rush diagnal inward or go sideline and then in...You will get in sometimes.
That's the big glitch and now you know how to do it..
Go practice....


Boffa-
You are a grown man and a whiner. It is possible to be both.

OUT Pattern pass was your only passing play.
You never sent me one message and paused the game close to ten minutes.
You replayed every single offensive play I did that was successful.
You quick snapped.
You ran the play clock out.
I forgot to mention NO MAX PASS, and moving your defenders all over the place to create computer AI confusion.
How do you check what rating someone gave you before you give a rating?
Yes you did all the unsim things you cry about. I am tired of the SIM BS..... No one is SIM and everyone is SIM.
It's all in the eye of the beholder..
If you are a grown man than act like one and stop whining about how people play a videogame, stop being a liar, play the game and shut up! What did you beat me by? 2 points big deal....Everyone that knows me knows I play leagues hard and lobby half ***.
I don't care what you say. This has nothing to do about losing.
Here " I am an UNSIM Cheeser!" be afraid.......


- Quit lying you moron.........you know you did the d-line (FAN) glitch manually controlling manley.

- Yes.....I know what you did and I will not go practice it like you have suggested. Because, I don't feel the need to cheat my opponents out of a win.

- If I didn't have max passing it was by accident because, I always use max passing but like I said I was a little tipsy from the skins game. So, if I did forget to turn it on...it makes sense now because I noticed some of my passes weren't going where I expected them too.

- I have never whined about anything........stated my opinion yes.

- You were the one that came at me first you moron so, don't act like I attacked you first.......I did not come back at you to say haha I beat you......that is not why I play the game......I just made the point that you gave me a negative because, you lost.

- I always play a SIM style of football......so how could you say different.

p.s. Atleats I have learned you are nothing but a liar from all of this.

[alliance4g63]

I know there are formations that do this for you. As I have said that is the way it should be done.

When a guy chooses a 4 WR 1 RB set and I see 2 star WR's and 2 star TE's come to the line of scrimmage, even I am smart enough to figure out how this happened.

So if I am in one of those formations,does it show that I have all receivers or RB's and Te's also.

[AlexJones27]

If he was running 5 WR sets Coates should not be on the field. But, unfortunately 90% of the people online feel the need to sub the TE at the WR position rather than choose the correct formations from there playbook.

Who was his QB?


Boffa you taught me some things and we never even played. Thanks bro. I'm a better player since I stopped sub players. My playbook is custumized to fit my personel. I acrually take out plays that has no purpose unless you have multiple TE which I don't like Pairs and ace formations. We need to play bro.

[Njake.]

It has been fun reading all of the interesting posts on this thread.

[AlexJones27]

- you know you did the d-line (FAN) glitch manually controlling manley.

Is that when they take Manley as the outside DE and when the play is snapped they move to the inside??? I just had that happen to me on a crucial point of the game. I was thinking was that just cheese or skill? He only did it once but I was piissseed. Your thoughts boffa?

[alliance4g63]

Is that when they take Manley as the outside DE and when the play is snapped they move to the inside??? I just had that happen to me on a crucial point of the game. I was thinking was that just cheese or skill? He only did it once but I was piissseed. Your thoughts boffa?

It's a glitch and can work everyplay if they wanted it to.

[Xfsphynx]

If he was running 5 WR sets Coates should not be on the field. But, unfortunately 90% of the people online feel the need to sub the TE at the WR position rather than choose the correct formations from there playbook.

Who was his QB?




whats up boffa this is rider......

hey i would have to disagree with you.......its not cheese to sub a te in as a wideout, or as matter of fact a full back.....in the NFL you see that all the time......here are some examples:

antonio gates.....the constantly rotate him around the outside reciever position, the tight end position, the slot. and 4 te, 1 wr, 2 wr, 3 wr, 4 wr, 5 wr, guess what gates is still there. They set up these situations throughout there packages to keep the defense guessing on where he is now, which in turn opens opportunities for the HB or other recievers.

dallas clark: same thing

other TE's end up blocking all game in the TE position with heavy packages. With teams with not so good fullbacks you will occasionally see a TE in the Fullback position.......switching similar positions is not cheese.


You even have RB's in 5 wide reciever sets....examples kevin faulk, reggie bush, the list can go on and on....

what makes this all possible is their ability to cath the ball, and play the position.

remember there is players in the NFL playing both sides of the ball, like WRs playing DB, and LB's Playing TE.

you know what is cheese taking your fastest DB, WR, or FS and subing him as QB and running with the QB or passing with a kicker as QB.

[AlexJones27]

What boffa is saying is there are plays in your playbook that already do this for you. You just have to look for them. The play will run better too if you have them at there correct positions. It is designed that way.

[AlexJones27]

For example is I sub my WR at TE in a PAIRS formation. Guess what he doesn't run (animation) like a WR his animation is of a TE. So your really screwing yourself by doing this.

[AlexJones27]

If you want Dallas Clark in the slot pick the Strong I TE formation and the play is designed that way. If you want a 5 wr set but want your RB or FB in there,,, there is a play in one of them I forget which that does this for you.

[verydry]

Ok so to get this thread back on topic......

I use Marino at qb with Rice,Maynard,Coates and Alvin Harper. I dont just run 5 wide but I do lots of formations with no back.. The reason I adopted this style of play is matchups. And if I get negative feedback for this then so be it but I've still managed to keep 94% this whole time so I must not be doing too much wrong.

And if you are the guy I remember,u had quite a few legends in the secondary. Your problem was using the safety. I would overload that side with 3 deep routes that all went in different directions,making to have to make decision on who you wanted to cover. When u made that decision,I threw away from you.

It's hard to stop but so is the combination of Ditka and Coates. That is a defensive matchup nightmare,especially when u only have a bronze LB. But guess what, I was able to contain him. Bend dont break. Simple simple simple. IT DOESNT TAKE PLAYING CHEAP TO MATCH UP WITH SOMEONE...U MANUAL BLITZERS AND DLINE USERS I'M LOOKING AT YOU!

ok, u used marino. maybe i mixed it up with other guy used harbaugh. i've been playing with alot of guys using this 5 WRs set almost every play lately. i won the game cuz coates fumble @ last min. i think it's you that my D have problem with.
man oh man, your 5 WRs set was very impressive. :thumbsup: i started this thread cuz i wanna know how to stop it effectivly. anyway, you mean that if i control my SS and there's no way to stop it at all?

[AlexJones27]

IF someone is 5 wideouting you send someone up the middle with a manual blitz. His generic O-linmen can't stop that. Do you know how to make a Backer or safety blitz in a coverage formation?

[FLAxWLESS]

For example is I sub my WR at TE in a PAIRS formation. Guess what he doesn't run (animation) like a WR his animation is of a TE. So your really screwing yourself by doing this.

So then what is the complaint about it?

[alliance4g63]

ok, u used marino. maybe i mixed it up with other guy used harbaugh. i've been playing with alot of guys using this 5 WRs set almost every play lately. i won the game cuz coates fumble @ last min. i think it's you that my D have problem with.
man oh man, your 5 WRs set was very impressive. :thumbsup: i started this thread cuz i wanna know how to stop it effectivly. anyway, you mean that if i control my SS and there's no way to stop it at all?

Thanks! I was very ****ed and couldnt believe Coates fumbled. I gave you neutral because of the xp u blocked and it seems like u can do it just about anytime and ultimately that is what cost me the game.

But no I don't mean not to use the SS,I was just saying my strategy to getting my guys open. You manually cover pretty well,you just have to call better defense in that situation. A mix of deep zones and man coverage is good with one person or two people blitzing. Then it's a matter of if I really am a good Qb or only looking at 1 or 2 receivers per play.
BEND DONT BREAK!

[BofaDeezNutts]

Is that when they take Manley as the outside DE and when the play is snapped they move to the inside??? I just had that happen to me on a crucial point of the game. I was thinking was that just cheese or skill? He only did it once but I was piissseed. Your thoughts boffa?

I would not even classify it as cheese, it is a glitch in the game.

That is the exact play my friend. If you you play someone who has practiced it alot, they can come in untouched 90% of the time.

The only way to counter it, that I know of is to have your O-line pass protect to the right. But, that still does not change the fact that it is a glitch.

There are always counters for glitches, but who wants to play the the game figuring out glitches and counters for them.....not me.

[BofaDeezNutts]

Boffa you taught me some things and we never even played. Thanks bro. I'm a better player since I stopped sub players. My playbook is custumized to fit my personel. I acrually take out plays that has no purpose unless you have multiple TE which I don't like Pairs and ace formations. We need to play bro.


I am glad I was able to get through to atleast one person. :)

Unfortunately I got the 3 red ring thing the other day so, it could be a while before I get back online........but, I will be more than happy to play you when I get it back.

[BofaDeezNutts]

whats up boffa this is rider......



Whats up man!!!

I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100% in regards to what the NFL does. There are formations in the playbook that will do all of this for you. Formations will line up the TE in the slot or even out wide.

I have trouble explaining this for some reason. But, when people do these out of position subs, the offense formation that shows to the guy playing defense does not reflect the players that will be on the field.

Example:
- A team with these legends 2WR, 2TE.
- They decide to sub both TE's for WR's in the quad formation which has 4WR and 1Rb (0 TE's). But, when this offense comes to the line of scrimmage I see 2WR legends and 2TE legends because they have subbed there TE's for WR's

So my comparison to the NFL is this:
- In the NFL the defense can see what players are on the field and put the correct defense package on the field. This would be impossible for them to do if they did not know Shockey was on the field....which is what happens in this video game when these subs are made.

- In the game it confuse the defense as to what players will be on the field, since the game does not reflect these subs to the person you are playing

[TheBigBamboo]

- Quit lying you moron.........you know you did the d-line (FAN) glitch manually controlling manley.

- Yes.....I know what you did and I will not go practice it like you have suggested. Because, I don't feel the need to cheat my opponents out of a win.

- If I didn't have max passing it was by accident because, I always use max passing but like I said I was a little tipsy from the skins game. So, if I did forget to turn it on...it makes sense now because I noticed some of my passes weren't going where I expected them too.

- I have never whined about anything........stated my opinion yes.

- You were the one that came at me first you moron so, don't act like I attacked you first.......I did not come back at you to say haha I beat you......that is not why I play the game......I just made the point that you gave me a negative because, you lost.

- I always play a SIM style of football......so how could you say different.

p.s. Atleats I have learned you are nothing but a liar from all of this.


I disagree! I haven't lied about one thing. I don't think you follow the Sim rules. I don't think you are a Sim player.
I think you complain about toooo much. You have lied and exaggerated about everything you said about me and everything you said about yourself.
How do you remember anyway if you were so tipsy?

Here is the truth-- SIM is B.S. No one is Sim. Everyone exploits the game. Out patterns are as glitchy as the DE glitch. No difference.
It all doesn't matter because I don't believe in SIM rules. I think players who consistantly talk about this are weak and use it as an excuse.

Ban out patterns
Ban DL use
Ban manually moving any player into a different area than were they originally lined up at.
Ban subs of the WR - Te, Te to WR, RB - TE, Rb - Wr, TE or WR to RB or FB
Ban Subs of CB to LB or LB to CB or any non DL to DL
Ban Long Bombs
Ban onside kicks
Ban Quick Snap
Ban hurry up offense
Ban motioning players
Ban use of certain legend players
Ban throwing off the back foot
Ban going for it on 4th down whenever you want
Ban using 5 wr sets
I am sure there are ten more that the sim police have thought of that doesn't come to mind.

Let's make some popcorn and watch computer vs. computer! That should be a great sim match.

[BofaDeezNutts]

^^
The bottom line is that you are a sore loser........I am done with you because, I can't argue with a liar. Anyways, you were the one that came at me first.

Nuff said....peace out!!!

[Ro_Diggity]

To kill the snake, cut off the head.

In that meaning get pressure on the qb. A pass rusher like Reggie White would work.

[LATECH06]

^^
The bottom line is that you are a sore loser........I am done with you because, I can't argue with a liar. Anyways, you were the one that came at me first.

Nuff said....peace out!!!


Ohh, Ohh.

I see that you always have to get the last word in. Don't you Ohh, Ohh? Nothing has changed. You always think you are the voice of reasoning, you think you are never wrong and the authoritative figure don't you. Your jaded immage is not fooling anyone. You are still a hypocrite and a fake. Do you want a treat??

Speaking about sore loser, I know you have a lot of experience in that field. :dance:

[verydry]

Thanks! I was very ****ed and couldnt believe Coates fumbled. I gave you neutral because of the xp u blocked and it seems like u can do it just about anytime and ultimately that is what cost me the game.

But no I don't mean not to use the SS,I was just saying my strategy to getting my guys open. You manually cover pretty well,you just have to call better defense in that situation. A mix of deep zones and man coverage is good with one person or two people blitzing. Then it's a matter of if I really am a good Qb or only looking at 1 or 2 receivers per play.
BEND DONT BREAK!

i don't mind whatever rating you gave me. that was your experience, that's fine with me. yes, i tried to block XP everytime, but it only worked once. i only blocked the 1st one if you remember. the point is i CAN'T block it everytime, but i will try to block it everytime, because i know 1 point can make a different. just like the game we played. who have thought that was the different in the game. anyway, i didn't do any cheap moves and sub anyone to block the kick. just control the SS and go stright up the middle.

[Bl00d h0und Gang]

I played a dude ranked in the top 50. He had Marino, Rice, Coates, and 2 bronze WRs. He used 5 WR sets all game. He exceled at passing the ball and calling many different pass plays. Where he lacked though was in all other facets of the game. His kicking was terrible -missed a 30 yrd FG, my avrge field poisiton was beyond my 40 yrd line. His defensive play was average.... In the end I won 11- 8 in overtime. The difference in the game was my play in the redzone. He got in the redzone 5 times. Yet he only came away with one TD. His 4 botched redzone trips were: 30 yrd missed FG, 2 user picks by me, stuffed on 4th and inches (he ran QB sneak and didn't press X to dive over the pile).

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

I disagree! I haven't lied about one thing. I don't think you follow the Sim rules. I don't think you are a Sim player.
I think you complain about toooo much. You have lied and exaggerated about everything you said about me and everything you said about yourself.
How do you remember anyway if you were so tipsy?

Here is the truth-- SIM is B.S. No one is Sim. Everyone exploits the game. Out patterns are as glitchy as the DE glitch. No difference.
It all doesn't matter because I don't believe in SIM rules. I think players who consistantly talk about this are weak and use it as an excuse.

Ban out patterns
Ban DL use
Ban manually moving any player into a different area than were they originally lined up at.
Ban subs of the WR - Te, Te to WR, RB - TE, Rb - Wr, TE or WR to RB or FB
Ban Subs of CB to LB or LB to CB or any non DL to DL
Ban Long Bombs
Ban onside kicks
Ban Quick Snap
Ban hurry up offense
Ban motioning players
Ban use of certain legend players
Ban throwing off the back foot
Ban going for it on 4th down whenever you want
Ban using 5 wr sets
I am sure there are ten more that the sim police have thought of that doesn't come to mind.

Let's make some popcorn and watch computer vs. computer! That should be a great sim match.


If they ban any of this i will not buy apf 2k9, I like the subs and all of the freedom. I mean i spent 60 bucks on this game, and I want to be able to do what is in the game.

Why should you care if I put a Guard at Tackle, FS at CB, CB at FS, Kicker at Tackle, WR at CB??? Its not even cheating or anything!!!!!!

[ToyDingo]

If they ban any of this i will not buy apf 2k9, I like the subs and all of the freedom. I mean i spent 60 bucks on this game, and I want to be able to do what is in the game.

Why should you care if I put a Guard at Tackle, FS at CB, CB at FS, Kicker at Tackle, WR at CB??? Its not even cheating or anything!!!!!!

You raise a good point, however, many people on this forum will consider this cheese. I personally don't care. You paid for it, you play it the way you want...

[Bowdown]

I check the defensive matchups and if I see 4 WRs and a TE I quit before the game starts because if you are playing a good player it is impossible to stop, simple as that. That is just one of this game's flaws.

Not true, I actually enjoy playing kids with an offensive team. Pound the ball down their throats and watch them make mistakes trying to score quickly.

[verydry]

I disagree! I haven't lied about one thing. I don't think you follow the Sim rules. I don't think you are a Sim player.
I think you complain about toooo much. You have lied and exaggerated about everything you said about me and everything you said about yourself.
How do you remember anyway if you were so tipsy?

Here is the truth-- SIM is B.S. No one is Sim. Everyone exploits the game. Out patterns are as glitchy as the DE glitch. No difference.
It all doesn't matter because I don't believe in SIM rules. I think players who consistantly talk about this are weak and use it as an excuse.

Ban out patterns
Ban DL use
Ban manually moving any player into a different area than were they originally lined up at.
Ban subs of the WR - Te, Te to WR, RB - TE, Rb - Wr, TE or WR to RB or FB
Ban Subs of CB to LB or LB to CB or any non DL to DL
Ban Long Bombs
Ban onside kicks
Ban Quick Snap
Ban hurry up offense
Ban motioning players
Ban use of certain legend players
Ban throwing off the back foot
Ban going for it on 4th down whenever you want
Ban using 5 wr sets
I am sure there are ten more that the sim police have thought of that doesn't come to mind.

Let's make some popcorn and watch computer vs. computer! That should be a great sim match.


Out patterns are as glitchy as the DE glitch.?????
it's easy to stop if you know how to. if you use the same D play either zone or man, you will get burn by out route. the way to stop is to use a zone play and then assign your DB man to man the WR, by pressing RB. because the position of your DB in zone play plus the man assignment, they can stop it. try it

[AlexJones27]

Is putting Euguene Robinson a safety at Corner cheese. He has pass coverage and ball hawk and played the majority of his career as a corner. That may be the only subing I do that some people may have an issue with.

[Xfsphynx]

Whats up man!!!

I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100% in regards to what the NFL does. There are formations in the playbook that will do all of this for you. Formations will line up the TE in the slot or even out wide.

I have trouble explaining this for some reason. But, when people do these out of position subs, the offense formation that shows to the guy playing defense does not reflect the players that will be on the field.

Example:
- A team with these legends 2WR, 2TE.
- They decide to sub both TE's for WR's in the quad formation which has 4WR and 1Rb (0 TE's). But, when this offense comes to the line of scrimmage I see 2WR legends and 2TE legends because they have subbed there TE's for WR's

So my comparison to the NFL is this:
- In the NFL the defense can see what players are on the field and put the correct defense package on the field. This would be impossible for them to do if they did not know Shockey was on the field....which is what happens in this video game when these subs are made.

- In the game it confuse the defense as to what players will be on the field, since the game does not reflect these subs to the person you are playing


I see what your saying and i agree your right, however i cant blame someone for wanting their best players on the field, no matter what the package (within similar positions of course). If you see 4 wr your most likely coming out with a nickel or dime package. On a defensive standpoint, you will have your best defenders on the field; between the CB's
and LB's you have. How is it differ? ......

On a flip side of this i cant even count how many times i held ground on defense because of them having everyone out there at once....... 3rd downs would be in my favor because the offense will come out wit only 1 or 2 of those guys because their tired. so there are its disadvantages of doing so.

But back to the main question how do you stop 5 WR's ........

1) have 5 guys that can cover......isnt that what this game is about; building your team? I mean you can have 8 differ variations

OR

2) Offensive shootout: a team wit 5 WR's doesnt have a good enough defense to hold up against another offensive team. keep scoring dont worry so much about your defense, and capitalize of their mistakes.

OR

3) Disguise you defense: dont be afraid to be crafty. an example is maybe you want to play combo coverage and bump the outside recievers and position DB's outside forcing an inside hot route. everyone in middle of field plays zone. There are lots of plays where you can force situations.

[alliance4g63]

Whats funny is the fact that the whole "sim" thing was not even debatable here when 2k5 was around. I have no idea where all you irrational play to win no matter what people came from. Must have migrated from madden and ya'll are just not used to playing real football.

[BofaDeezNutts]

Is putting Euguene Robinson a safety at Corner cheese. He has pass coverage and ball hawk and played the majority of his career as a corner. That may be the only subing I do that some people may have an issue with.


This sub is cool with me......all DB's are interchangeable.

I seem to be alot stricter than anyone else as far as what subs are considerered cheese.....so, if I think it is cool then you should have no problem with anyone else.

Below, subs that I feel are legit:

Defense:
- CB, FS, SS (All dB's are interchangeable)

- ILB, OLB (All LB's are interchangeable)

- DE, DT (All D-lineman are interchangeable)

Offense:
- HB, FB (running backs are interchangeable)

- OT, OG (All lineman are interchangeable)

I really don't see why anybody should feel the need to do any other type of sub.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

Is SS ok at OLB? Or OLB at DE?

[BofaDeezNutts]

^^
Not as far as I am concerned.......or atleast if you are trying to pay a SIM game....if you are not then feel free to do whatever you want.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

but if derrick thomas played in a 4-3, wouldn't he play DE instead??

[Valdarez]

I still see nothing wrong with putting a HB or TE in the multiple WR sets. They are running routes and catching balls like WRs. I use my TE's and HB's in the 5WRs sets. The scrubs catch so poorly that you're better off using the Star players. And they do substitute players like that in the NFL.

[BofaDeezNutts]

I still see nothing wrong with putting a HB or TE in the multiple WR sets. They are running routes and catching balls like WRs. I use my TE's and HB's in the 5WRs sets. The scrubs catch so poorly that you're better off using the Star players. And they do substitute players like that in the NFL.


I know they do this in the NFL.......but, what nobody seems to understand is that in the NFL the defense coach can see what personnel is on the field before they pick the defensive package that will be on the field.

When these subs are made it takes that part of the game away because, you can never tell what personnel will be on the field and where they will be.........it totally screws the defense on what defense formation to pick. I understand that 90% of the online gamers pick the same defense formation no matter what so, to them it does not matter....but, for someone like me it totally screws up playing defense

It doesn't really matter anyway because, I got the 3 red flashing light thing and I am in no hurry to get it back.......so, you guys may never have to listen to reason again....good luck!

[pairunoyd]

I know it wouldnt happen, but itd be cool if there was a checklist of do's and dont's and players could agree or disagree. 2K could take elements like the subbing and disable it if the two players agree to it. Or, maybe provide gamers w/ a game style profile of their opponent and what he likes to do. After all, most real games are played in public and you can study game film. This would let you know what kinda gamer they are and what you might, might expect out of him.

[GoodSense]

Ok.
Time for some GoodSense.

First off there is no one to blame but.... 2ksports.
Again, they need programmers who think like gamers and who look for leaks.
It has become painfully obvious they do not have this based on some of the glitches.

A perfect example is this substitution discussion.
Personally I could careless who you substitute. There it is said.
My only request which I think others would agree is to make sure it TOO is by the rules of the sport and provide a balanced approach for both sides.

Has anyone here heard of "Illegal Substitution"?
This is basically what this style of substitution simulates because you are hiding your substitution. This is why the rule was put in place in real football.

This again is an example of something that should have been fixed.
Instead of providing a display on what package SHOULD consist of the display should provide what the package ACTUALLY consist of.
There... problem solved.

It really is nothing hard to correct.
Making this correction should bring this issue to a close just like having QB Spy should have closed running QB issues.

This way you can substitute who ever you wish on offense because the countdown window will display the correct level of substitutions.

With that said we need to make sure on offense we can identify all parties as well on defense from the LOS. Make the fatigue display also display the position of the player.
Nothing wrong with this because the defense can substitute without penalty like in the NFL and the QB would be able to ID players once he gets to the LOS.


Packages.
As stated there are plenty of formations to pretty much create your setup without these substitutions.
My only issue right now is it appears to be broken as well.
All of the packages do not seem to work as they should.
I think it was the Kings package that only list the spread as its only package.
There are plenty more formations that I should be able to call from.


People are doing the substitutions because it is the quickest and easy way to do it.
I say go into practice mode and choose from package formation and see if you can use that package to get what you want.

Personally speaking I would allow any formation from the packages.
If you choose Jacks and end up in a 4 receiver set in shotgun formation then more power to you, but at least during the break of your huddle, AS IN THE NFL, I will know who is on the field.

And I think that is all that is being asked.

I have to agree to a degree about all the Sim Rules.
I think some people tend to go a little over the top.
But this substitution request is validated by a similar rule in the NFL, so to say it is asking too much would be wrong.

[BofaDeezNutts]

^^^
You make perfect sense as always.

As, you said also....I don't understand why the game allows out of position subs if the play they call does not reflect the players that will truly be on the field.

That is all I am asking is to keep it real, because I get really involved in playing defense so, I don't like being fooled as to what players will be on the field. It makes it very frustrating to play defense.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

so hopefully they will make 2K9 so that the game will show who really is on the field. But really its just a game so just please stop complaining about substitutions

[BofaDeezNutts]

so hopefully they will make 2K9 so that the game will show who really is on the field. But really its just a game so just please stop complaining about substitutions


That would be nice, but I doubt it.

For the record I am not complaining as much as I am trying to get people to understand how it screws with someone trying to play defense so, that maybe they will understand that these are not legit substitutions.

Yes, it is a game and I will not stop stating my opinion about bugs in the game........if everyone were to stop abusing bugs to make sure they come out with a win.....then yes it would be considered a "game".......which I play for fun not to be cheated.

[Gunner969]

Below, subs that I feel are legit:

Defense:
- CB, FS, SS (All dB's are interchangeable)

- ILB, OLB (All LB's are interchangeable)

- DE, DT (All D-lineman are interchangeable)

Offense:
- HB, FB (running backs are interchangeable)

- OT, OG (All lineman are interchangeable)

I really don't see why anybody should feel the need to do any other type of sub.

What's wrong with LB at DE? This is about as common a sub in the NFL as you can get. In dime/nickel defenses, Derrick Thomas and Greg Lloyd played DE most of the time.

Actually, from a game play perspective, I see subbing any D legend in any defensive position as being ok. If you take a SS and put him DE, you may have a better DE, but you won't have a SS. So it's not really a gain for the defense.

ps. I do agree with the offensive subs you had listed. I didn't a few weeks ago, but now you've convinced me.

[GoodSense]

That would be nice, but I doubt it.

For the record I am not complaining as much as I am trying to get people to understand how it screws with someone trying to play defense so, that maybe they will understand that these are not legit substitutions.

Yes, it is a game and I will not stop stating my opinion about bugs in the game........if everyone were to stop abusing bugs to make sure they come out with a win.....then yes it would be considered a "game".......which I play for fun not to be cheated.


I agree.
If people don't complain about the bugs then we will continue to get buggy code and it will diminish the desire to purchase the upgrade.

This fix is really simple. Seriously. There is no excuse for it.
This is the prefect example of someone who probably memorized everything about a coding language, but who hasn't spent enough time working on the logic of programming.
I see it all the time. It is one of the reasons for most of the major software glitches game or otherwise.
Someone isn't thinking through the logic behind a lot of things.
I could point out the commentary as well.
If they built a proper Model for commentary it would take care of itself and put an end to recycled comments that at some point in time of the game needs to be unaccessible.

I had 5 TDs last night and on my last drive I just couldn't complete anything.
The commentary is talking about pulling out my LEAD receiver with 3 TDs, questioning keeping him in the game and the coach, etc...
I'm up 42-10 and the commentary wouldn't do this. So there needs to be a feature that determines when a comment is accessible or not and one that determines the count as well as the maximum. There also needs to be levels of commentary, so the game drops one level for another this way it takes care of its accessibility right there.

The same goes for the crowd noise, boos, etc...
There could be different levels as the game progresses.

This leveling process would handle comebacks better, end of game, or put away game scores comments.


But that is another subject.



I will say this though and I've said it before.
This is not something I will complain to the player about or come on the board complaining about the player, etc... They will still receive a top mark unless they do sometime of glitch that really sucks.

My comments are in hopes that 2ksports will read this and try to implement the idea.
It would be nice that people would look at it from a fair point of view, but that won't happen. People seem to always comeback and say it is just a game. True.
So why bother to continue something you know hurts gameplay or gives an unfair advantage is my question.
But again, most should have never existed with proper testing.

[Valdarez]

I know they do this in the NFL.......but, what nobody seems to understand is that in the NFL the defense coach can see what personnel is on the field before they pick the defensive package that will be on the field.

When these subs are made it takes that part of the game away because, you can never tell what personnel will be on the field and where they will be.........it totally screws the defense on what defense formation to pick. I understand that 90% of the online gamers pick the same defense formation no matter what so, to them it does not matter....but, for someone like me it totally screws up playing defense

It doesn't really matter anyway because, I got the 3 red flashing light thing and I am in no hurry to get it back.......so, you guys may never have to listen to reason again....good luck!I completely disagree on this one. If I have a TE substituted for a WR, and it shows a 2 WR, 1 TE, 2HB set, when in fact it's a 4 WR set, THEN you would be calling the wrong play. Possibly a 4-4, instead of a nickel at which point you'd really be screwed. It's telling you the formation (what they will be running) which is what you want. The fact that they are showing you the formation, instead of the personnel actually aids you in making your play call.

[Valdarez]

Here are the only rules I could find on Player Substitutions resulting in illegal substitutions and it has nothing what so ever to do with the position being substituted much less the formation as some of you have indicated. If someone else can find more info, I'd love to read it.

Players-substitutions

1. Each team is permitted 11 men on the field at the snap.

2. Unlimited substitution is permitted. However, players may enter the field only when the ball is dead. Players who have been substituted for are not permitted to linger on the field. Such lingering will be interpreted as unsportsmanlike conduct.

3. 12 men delayed in huddle-illegal substitution.

4. Offensive substitutes who remain in the game must move onto the field as far as the inside of the field numerals before moving to a wide position.

5. With the exception of the last two minutes of either half, the offensive team, while in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line and snapping the ball with the obvious attempt to cause a defensive foul; i.e., too many men on the field.