Movin D-Linemen is not Cheese!!!

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

In the NFL they do it all of the time to confuse the offensive line, and guess what, the O-line gets confused. Its not messing with the A.I., its just a strategy.

If they move the linemen to one side, just run to the other side and youll get a long gain. Come on guys, if you see all of the linemen on one side, flip the play, or just shift the pass protection to that side.

[pairunoyd]

ok, whatd you do and whod you do it to?

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

I did not do it to anyone, i just see a bunch of posts everywhere complaining bout it.

[pairunoyd]

thought maybe you got into it online

:p

[pairunoyd]

wait, youre not an onliner, right?

[badasp83]

Anyone notice that the CPU can move their whole dline while we can't?

[Valdarez]

It's just odd that they developers gave you the ability to move every other player. The Linebackers, the Cornerbacks, the Safeties, but not the Lineman. Why? From what I have see the game logic can't handle the misplaced lineman. It throws of blocking for passing, blocking for opening up running lanes, and gives a huge advantage to the defense. Not because the defense is doing anything spectacular, or ground breaking, or the player is using superior 'defensive knowledge/skills', it's simply because the AI/code can't handle it properly.

At the very list I believe it's something that is questionable, and possibly cheese/under handed. At the very worst, it is exploiting the game. The gravity of the case is determined by the consistency and effect of the outcome from moving the lineman.

[Gunner969]

I don't buy into the cheeze police stuff and believe everything goes, but what really gets my goat is people manually blitzing a LB/DB. All that's required is to wait about 0.3 seconds after the snap so every Olineman gets engaged with something, and then the LB has a free shot at the QB. Even if you keep a FB and HB to block, the 0.3 second delay is usually enough to clear the path for the manually blitzing LB/DB.

The pass blocking A.I. for ALL players is just retarded in this game.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

I don't buy into the cheeze police stuff and believe everything goes, but what really gets my goat is people manually blitzing a LB/DB. All that's required is to wait about 0.3 seconds after the snap so every Olineman gets engaged with something, and then the LB has a free shot at the QB. Even if you keep a FB and HB to block, the 0.3 second delay is usually enough to clear the path for the manually blitzing LB/DB.

The pass blocking A.I. for ALL players is just retarded in this game.


So True sometimes

[Ebineezer]

I watch these debates all the time in these forums and I just don't buy this dline nonsense. It seems everyday somebody finds something more advanced than their game, and it's seems easier to call it the c-word. Moving the dline does happen in the NFL. That's the reality of this whole situation. Yeah the developers didn't give us the ability to move the dline with a trigger, but they also forgot to include sweat off the players, as well as green stains on the uni's. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen or it's not capable of happening. My last 20-25 games I have been making dline adjustments in certain packages. I'm not saying a guy should have all his lineman on oneside, thats diferent. But anytime I'm in a 4-3, Dime, or nickel package i manually move my dline on one side so my dline is evenly space. I don't do it in the 3-4, Dime 3-2, or 4- because the lineman are evenly spaced. But are we really supposed to allow the running backs to get 3-6 yards evrytime they run because of the humungous gap over the centers head in those packages. It's just football!!! If anything the c-word is everyone who has the same ole legends on every team! Create a realistic squad of created NFL players, or maybe surpise us with a offbrand legend at CB, TE, QB, or WR. Rice, Metzelars, Montana, Okoye, OJ, Campbell, Barney. It's just like if the Patriots were on the game anybody can when with them, but would you be able to win with the Dolphins. Get creative guys.

[pairunoyd]

Does QB evade come in handy? I know I have REAL problems watching the rush while also looking for an open man. I think there needs to be some sort of camera assist on impending sacks or even small alerts that could possibly be attached to receiver icons. Maybe the icons could be like an eclipse. The icon is the moon and the rush is like the sun and its light ever so slightly expands beyond the 'moon's' perimeter, indicating where the pressure is coming from. A more aware QB would get stronger indications.

[theshiznetno1]

^^^^ I've never used it, but people I've played against have used it well.

[Njake.]

Will people stop comparing certain things in real life to a litlle disc that you put into a box?

There is a little thing called Artificial Intelligence. Pretty big part of sports games. When actually playing football, and being a human being that can operate and function on it's own, you can adapt to certain things on the defensive line.

In a video game, you cannot. It is a computer animated simulation that has flaws. And when those flaws are exploited it is very frustrating.

And from what I understand LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS, you don't play online. Play some guys who get in to the back field in literally 1 second 85% of the time.

[theshiznetno1]

I feel you to an extent Njake. I thought people just whined and complained before I played online. And after taking my game online.....I still think people whine and complain too much. I always looked for someone w/ above and 80% feeback and only had a couple guys do BS against me. I adjusted to what they did, and if it was just something w/ the AI, I chalked it up like that and finished the game.

[LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS]

Whatever, i give up. You win

[Njake.]

I agree that people whine too much. Moving the d-line slightly on a play every once in a while is completely fine. It is when you move the line drastically on the majority of your plays that is pretty cheesey.

[magex2112]

I was playing my friend and he kept moving his right d-lineman over to the left side like he was a RLB(right linebacker) going to rush on the side. I'm not calling it cheese but it was effective. A little too effective. I think I whooped him that game anyway so who cares...

[Phillip A Bole]

Ya'll are acting the fool. Yes, a D-Lineman can move, like in "real football" like you all say, but if you've noticed they only move left or right, and that's fine. The fact is, there must be a certain number of men on the line of scrimmage. That means no moving your DT back to LB position like some idiots. You want to move it to the left or right fine...but he must be in position, on the line of scrimmage, when the ball is snapped. There are rules for the number of men on the line of scrimmage freaks. Rules. That means, if you move your dude, and you're moving him to the other side, and the ball is snapped, and you don't have the required number of guys on the line, it should be a penalty...in this game IT IS NOT. You dig? Is that simple enough??

[redbull75]

Will people stop comparing certain things in real life to a litlle disc that you put into a box?

There is a little thing called Artificial Intelligence. Pretty big part of sports games. When actually playing football, and being a human being that can operate and function on it's own, you can adapt to certain things on the defensive line.

In a video game, you cannot. It is a computer animated simulation that has flaws. And when those flaws are exploited it is very frustrating.

And from what I understand LSUTIGERSPHXSUNS, you don't play online. Play some guys who get in to the back field in literally 1 second 85% of the time.
It's amazing how many people can't grasp this concept, Njake. In real life O-lineman adjust on the fly and change gap assignments when an end spreads out far or a linebacker "manually" crowds the line. AI linemen are ridiculously stupid, and so are blocking backs. So it's done in real life, fine, but is the real life solution able to be implemented on the other side of the ball?

[theshiznetno1]

Ya'll are acting the fool. Yes, a D-Lineman can move, like in "real football" like you all say, but if you've noticed they only move left or right, and that's fine. The fact is, there must be a certain number of men on the line of scrimmage. That means no moving your DT back to LB position like some idiots. You want to move it to the left or right fine...but he must be in position, on the line of scrimmage, when the ball is snapped. There are rules for the number of men on the line of scrimmage freaks. Rules. That means, if you move your dude, and you're moving him to the other side, and the ball is snapped, and you don't have the required number of guys on the line, it should be a penalty...in this game IT IS NOT. You dig? Is that simple enough??

As far as defense, there is no such rule. Ever seen the Patriots 1-5-5?

[pairunoyd]

yea dude, you can have a 11-0-0 defense or a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1.

On offense you gotta have 7 on the line. hehe

[pairunoyd]

or more, of course.

and u thought u were lighting a candle :rotfl:

[Phillip A Bole]

As far as defense, there is no such rule. Ever seen the Patriots 1-5-5?

Then you don't know football. It can be any member of the defense, but there must be a certain # of defensive players on the line of scrimmage. Period.

And, hopefully this doesn't confuse you, but the line of scrimmage extends from out of bounds to out of bounds. Freak.

[theshiznetno1]

Then you don't know football. It can be any member of the defense, but there must be a certain # of defensive players on the line of scrimmage. Period.

And what is that magic number? I've seen the Pats come out w/ one player on the defensive line before.

[redbull75]

Then you don't know football. It can be any member of the defense, but there must be a certain # of defensive players on the line of scrimmage. Period.
Really? Post the link to the rule. Period. Thats a fact. The Patriots ran NO DOWN LINEMAN on a couple plays against the Dolphins on a monday night game in 04. Period. Thats a fact.

[theshiznetno1]

Freak? C'mon man, no need to attack each other like this. Be the 38 year old mature man you should be, and not insult people over internet video game forums.

[redbull75]

Wow I can hear Phillip frantically googling as we speak.

[Phillip A Bole]

LOL, Phillip just read this and needs to watch a movie and eat dinner with his wife.

And sorry theshiz, if you felt I offended you.

[theshiznetno1]

^^^^No problem man

[BofaDeezNutts]

It's just odd that they developers gave you the ability to move every other player. The Linebackers, the Cornerbacks, the Safeties, but not the Lineman. Why? From what I have see the game logic can't handle the misplaced lineman. It throws of blocking for passing, blocking for opening up running lanes, and gives a huge advantage to the defense. Not because the defense is doing anything spectacular, or ground breaking, or the player is using superior 'defensive knowledge/skills', it's simply because the AI/code can't handle it properly.

At the very list I believe it's something that is questionable, and possibly cheese/under handed. At the very worst, it is exploiting the game. The gravity of the case is determined by the consistency and effect of the outcome from moving the lineman.


^^I agree 100%.


LSUTIGERS,
You must learn how the A.I. works in this game before you create a thread like this.

[Numbski]

I hate to take sides here, but you aren't required to have d-linemen at all. Certain lower-level leagues have various rules on that front, but you can drop men into coverage all day if you want. The minimum this game does is 3 on the line. Anything less than that you begin to lose practicality.

If someone wants to drop a DT into coverage, I say let them. If they're doing it consistently, RUN THE BALL. If they're doing it on 3rd/4th and long downs, that's not cheese, that's SMART. There doesn't have to be a way to beat every coverage in every situation. There's a reason you see teams running screen passes and draws on 3rd and 20+. There's not a safe way to pick up the first down. If they're doing that on first or second down it becomes a no brainer. Audible into a run and shove the ball down their throat until they learn.

[amid]

^^I agree 100%.


LSUTIGERS,
You must learn how the A.I. works in this game before you create a thread like this.

i respectfully submit to you, whatever Big Cheese Bofa says, i agree!