APF win formula: 20% skill 80% who gets shafted less

[redbull75]

Success in this game comes from understanding and exploiting the GAME, not from football knowledge.

An obvious but often overlooked fact.

Congratulations for exploiting that 20% to the fullest.

One day we'll have an 80/20 game.

I'll see you then.

[TheRainboWarior]

Or you suck, if both players play a fair sim game, it comes down to ..... SKILL!

[Valdarez]

Exactly, it all depends on who you play. Find good players who want to have a realistic / fun game, and don't care as much about getting the W at all costs, and you won't have to worry about the exploiters.

[TheRainboWarior]

Exactly, now if you play someone who exploits the game to win at all costs, its not even who gets shafted, its who cheats.

Cheesers win for a reason, they exploit the game to do things that cant be stopped.

[redbull75]

LOL. I do not suck. But I can't even really enjoy wins because of the garbage that goes into one.

Look man, have fun playing. Don't be delusional though. Check the replay of any successful play and try not to find two completely screwed up things that allowed the play to succeed. It's pretty hard to do.

We all know the flaws in this game are too numerous to count. You can't have it both ways.

But like I said it IS a game, so if you get good at knowing and exploiting the GAME, congratulations.

Don't confuse it with being a genius football mind though, lol.
And don't assume that play you just scored on was a skillfull mastery of your opponent.

If you find yourself leaning towards that mindset, just check the replay and be honest with yourself.

80% of the time it's because you exploited AI shortcomings that no defensive call would have prevented, or an AI/ animation flaw permitted you that success.

[redbull75]

I'm not talking cheaters, I'm talking people who are simply good at understanding the shortcomings of the game and running plays to expose them, all which are totally legit.

My point was gameplanning is vastly overrated.

certain things work most of the time, regardless.

many things work when they absolutely should not.

thats it. Go on thinking you're brilliant if you like. LOL.

Use replay, my friends. Use replay and prepare to be stupified.

good luck.

[TheRainboWarior]

Your still wrong.

Period.

[redbull75]

Haha. ok friend. have fun playing.

just remember: REPLAY.

the truth hurts, and we don't like pain. I understand.

[alliance4g63]

Exactly, it all depends on who you play. Find good players who want to have a realistic / fun game, and don't care as much about getting the W at all costs, and you won't have to worry about the exploiters.


He does speak the truth though.. Take our game for instance. It was a real close game but you have to admit that I was moving the ball very well against your defense. I held your qb to 87 yards all the way up untill late 3rd quarter. What changed the game was a fumble by Christian Okoye(first time he as ever fumbled for me and it had to be on a long drive, in the redzone), an illegal man downfield after I successfully converted the 2nd down, a missed field goal when I clearly had the arrow dead center and a kickoff return by Lem Barney.

The game has a knack for blatantly playing for you or against you, moreso than I have ever seen in a videogame.

[redbull75]

All it takes is a little open mindedness, a bit of unbiased intelligent criticism of what transpires in a game.

I'm a poker player. When I have a winning session I need to look back on that session and determine why I won or lost....Did I play well, did I get my money in good? Or did I hit a two outer on the river to beat the guy?

When someone thinks they're good at something I feel they owe it to themselves to find out what's behind their success.

If not, they are operating under a false sense of accomplishment.

i know I know it's just a game.... just tired of a lot of the unfounded smugness, mainly because it overshadows and pushes aside what sometimes needs to happen: top players recognizing flaws to ensure a better game in the future.

When everyone in the top 50 truly believes they are geniuses and luck doesn't play an 80% part in the game, they are doing themselves and the community a disservice.

ok i'm done preaching

[Numbski]

Heh. I've won 3 games in a row now, and with a team that I thought would do nothing. Has nothing to do with getting shafted either.

On defense, Gold DE, Silver TE, Gold OLB, Silver SS. The first three are sack masters/pass rush bonus. The safety is there for strong side run support.

On offense, 5 bronze offensive linemen, Jim Harbaugh at QB, Ben Coates at TE. That's it. I don't even toss the ball out to Coates very often. He's there mainly as a blocker, and as a receiving decoy (he gets doubled immediately before the game starts, leaving me with a fully generic receiving corp - and the opponent has NO IDEA who they should cover. PERFECT.)

Now, things I've picked up - I have time to go through progressions. Guys are getting open on the plays that take a long time to develop. I could never even touch those plays before, and now they work beautifully. Screen passes go for yards, not because my generic HB is shrugging tackles, but because he's picking up blocks all over the place. Running the ball is astoundingly still no picnic, but it's sufficient. I think it's because the guys I'm playing against presume that I'm going to run all day behind these guys and stack the line. Not sure about that yet.

Point is, with the right personnel, you can go out and beat someone purely on football knowledge. On the defensive side of the ball, I know I'm going to get pressure on the QB, so I can focus on covering the receivers. I don't have to cover them forever, just until the rush gets there, which takes pressure off of my generics. The wildcard is the other team's HB. Shut him down, and the game becomes very winnable.

[redbull75]

purely on football knowledge. lol. Like I said in the previous post...it takes unbiased critical thought and an examination of REPLAYS.

I hardly expect a mod to be unbiased.

lol.

Wow are you guys really that delusional??? Holy ******.

Acknowledge the severe shortcomings so we can get a better product!!

"Purely on football knowledge." Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable.

ok I'm really done. heres to 2k9 being just as bad because sheep like this are convinced of their unadulterated skill.

what a joke.

[nyknicks33]

I'm not talking cheaters, I'm talking people who are simply good at understanding the shortcomings of the game and running plays to expose them, all which are totally legit.

My point was gameplanning is vastly overrated.

certain things work most of the time, regardless.

many things work when they absolutely should not.

thats it. Go on thinking you're brilliant if you like. LOL.

Use replay, my friends. Use replay and prepare to be stupified.

good luck.

Gotta agree with you here to an extent. I was playing a good game with a guy, and as we were playing and talking..Im driving down field..I make what should have been a mistake..I throw a deep out pattern to john taylor that Lem Barey is all over.

That is until, for some reason, Barney decided to plant his outside foot, which somehow corkscrewed his body into turning his back AWAY from ball. The momentum from his foot plant casuse him to cut back inside, leaving the ball to hit john taylor perfectly in stride.

He laughed, I laughed..as he paused to replay what had happened. I felt bad about it, because I knew that I got away with a completion that I never should have...due to no fault of my opponent.


This doesnt happen in a down in, down out basis of course, but sometimes things happen that absolutely should not.

[alliance4g63]

All it takes is a little open mindedness, a bit of unbiased intelligent criticism of what transpires in a game.

I'm a poker player. When I have a winning session I need to look back on that session and determine why I won or lost....Did I play well, did I get my money in good? Or did I hit a two outer on the river to beat the guy?



Great minds think alike. Good post.

[alliance4g63]

Heh. I've won 3 games in a row now, and with a team that I thought would do nothing. Has nothing to do with getting shafted either.

On defense, Gold DE, Silver TE, Gold OLB, Silver SS. The first three are sack masters/pass rush bonus. The safety is there for strong side run support.

On offense, 5 bronze offensive linemen, Jim Harbaugh at QB, Ben Coates at TE. That's it. I don't even toss the ball out to Coates very often. He's there mainly as a blocker, and as a receiving decoy (he gets doubled immediately before the game starts, leaving me with a fully generic receiving corp - and the opponent has NO IDEA who they should cover. PERFECT.)

Now, things I've picked up - I have time to go through progressions. Guys are getting open on the plays that take a long time to develop. I could never even touch those plays before, and now they work beautifully. Screen passes go for yards, not because my generic HB is shrugging tackles, but because he's picking up blocks all over the place. Running the ball is astoundingly still no picnic, but it's sufficient. I think it's because the guys I'm playing against presume that I'm going to run all day behind these guys and stack the line. Not sure about that yet.

Point is, with the right personnel, you can go out and beat someone purely on football knowledge. On the defensive side of the ball, I know I'm going to get pressure on the QB, so I can focus on covering the receivers. I don't have to cover them forever, just until the rush gets there, which takes pressure off of my generics. The wildcard is the other team's HB. Shut him down, and the game becomes very winnable.


Have you played anyone remotely good with that setup? No offense but aren't you the same guy that lost like 80 in a row or something?

[Numbski]

I played ICE THOR ZEUS. :)

Oh, wait....

I'm happy to put it to the test. It takes the whole "target your stars" out of the equation, and, IMHO, makes the offense play closer to 2K5, which in my book is a plus.

[nyknicks33]

I played ICE THOR ZEUS. :)

Oh, wait....

I'm happy to put it to the test. It takes the whole "target your stars" out of the equation, and, IMHO, makes the offense play closer to 2K5, which in my book is a plus.


and thats a valid point too. My 2000 Baltimore Ravens ad '85 Bears squad are light on O for obvious reasons..which makes me HAVE to play smarter on O

[TheRainboWarior]

Gotta agree with you here to an extent. I was playing a good game with a guy, and as we were playing and talking..Im driving down field..I make what should have been a mistake..I throw a deep out pattern to john taylor that Lem Barey is all over.

That is until, for some reason, Barney decided to plant his outside foot, which somehow corkscrewed his body into turning his back AWAY from ball. The momentum from his foot plant casuse him to cut back inside, leaving the ball to hit john taylor perfectly in stride.

He laughed, I laughed..as he paused to replay what had happened. I felt bad about it, because I knew that I got away with a completion that I never should have...due to no fault of my opponent.


This doesnt happen in a down in, down out basis of course, but sometimes things happen that absolutely should not.

He shouldve taken control of the corner, anytime the balls in the air, you take control of the corner, PERIOD!

[redbull75]

He shouldve taken control of the corner, anytime the balls in the air, you take control of the corner, PERIOD!
The y button often launches defenders into an ill-advised animation. AS YOU CONTROL THEM.

Rainbo, you really are a doofus.

By the way, why the bad rating after I beat you? It's not my fault you only gained yards by running 2 TE and chucking prayers to Metzellars. It's not my fault you threw 3 picks and had Sanders run over you for 160 yds.

lol. I should have shown you the replays evry time you got over with some garbage play to prove my previous points. I should have showed you the times I got over as well....

I should have rubbed it in instead of taking a knee on your 5 yd line.

Ah well. Enjoy the good rating I gave you. Who's the negative one now?? LOL.

You're sure to respond with some vacant argument or thoughtless flame, but it doesn't matter.

Just remember, keep your mind open to new ideas and consider the flipside to your own narrow world view. Take it easy, kid.

I won't be back.:)

[Valdarez]

He does speak the truth though.. Take our game for instance. It was a real close game but you have to admit that I was moving the ball very well against your defense. I held your qb to 87 yards all the way up untill late 3rd quarter. What changed the game was a fumble by Christian Okoye(first time he as ever fumbled for me and it had to be on a long drive, in the redzone), an illegal man downfield after I successfully converted the 2nd down, a missed field goal when I clearly had the arrow dead center and a kickoff return by Lem Barney.

The game has a knack for blatantly playing for you or against you, moreso than I have ever seen in a videogame.I don't see anything wrong with those examples. heh... of course, they all went my way. ;) I have had plenty go the other way though, and while it sucks when it happens, I like the fact that it's there. I mean, that's football right? Random things happen and it's up to you to over come it. Don't get me wrong, I have lost plenty of games due to things like that, particularly a late fumble on the last drive (that has lost me a good 4 or 5 games now). I hate it when it happens to me, I love it when it happens to my opponent. I think all in all it's a wash.

[TheRainboWarior]

I gave you a neutral, NOT a bad rating, sorry my friend, it was a neutral because you didnt play a completely fair game, and I tried to talk to you, and discuss some things with you, and you blew me off.

*And your not supposed to hit Y, RB is the best button to hit.

And umm, also like how on every third down you threw it to Barry in the flats, same play over n over, thats not cheese is it?

I gave you had better had worse, and that explains it all, I have had better and worse ;)

Oh yeah not to mention you went for it on YOUR 30 with 2 mins left on fourth down when you were up 21-15.

[Valdarez]

*And your not supposed to hit Y, RB is the best button to hit. Really now? You want to bet some money on that one? Tell me, when is it best to hit RB, and when is it best to hit Y? And no, the answer is not 'it's always best to hit RB'. ;)

[TheRainboWarior]

The y button often launches defenders into an ill-advised animation. AS YOU CONTROL THEM.

Rainbo, you really are a doofus.

By the way, why the bad rating after I beat you? It's not my fault you only gained yards by running 2 TE and chucking prayers to Metzellars. It's not my fault you threw 3 picks and had Sanders run over you for 160 yds.

lol. I should have shown you the replays evry time you got over with some garbage play to prove my previous points. I should have showed you the times I got over as well....

I should have rubbed it in instead of taking a knee on your 5 yd line.

Ah well. Enjoy the good rating I gave you. Who's the negative one now?? LOL.

You're sure to respond with some vacant argument or thoughtless flame, but it doesn't matter.

Just remember, keep your mind open to new ideas and consider the flipside to your own narrow world view. Take it easy, kid.

I won't be back.:)

First of all, I didnt give you a negative, I gave you a neutal "Had better, had worse"

The main reason for this was because EVERY third down situation, dump off to Barry in the flats, I counted this 7 times, you had only 8 first downs! Learn more than one play, the same play every third down IS CHEESE!

If you didnt knee, I would have given you a neg. for bad sportsmanship.

How about fourth and 1 on your 30, with a 2 mins left, your up 21-15 and you go for it? okay man, try not to play Sim some more ... ttyl nub cakes.

[SouthShallRise]

this post is true

[tpaterniti]

Or you suck, if both players play a fair sim game, it comes down to ..... SKILL!

He does have a good point. About 25% of the top 100 run true sim games, mix up their playbooks, and understand both football and the game. 25% know little about the game and have figured out exploits. The remaining 50% are right on the edge. Maybe they use the same 7 or 8 plays over and over or whatever, but they are unsim enough that you have a weird feeling after playing them, but not bad enough that you would call them cheese.

This game is pretty bad a lot of the times. You mostly win in spite of the crappy programming when you win (unless you are exploiting it, that is). The more you understand football and how certain things work in real life, the more frustrating this game is. I am just starting to accept the fact that this game is not really a sim game. Better than Madden, but nowhere near what I had hoped for.

Accepting it makes it less annoying. As Val says, to make a good play, rather than make the offensive guy play well, 2K's solution is to make your defender go into super stupid mode. This kind of thing happens on so many levels throughout the game. I do not think they are going to change it that much though. I think that maybe 25% of gamers could actually play the game if it were really realistic. I mean people complained all the time about too many INTs in 2K5, where I could read coverages and pass 80% or more against the CPU and about 74% against a live opponent using all sorts of different passes. The fact is that making a truly amazing sim football game would eliminate about 75% of 2K's gamer pool, and since that pool is already less than 2000 people as it is that would be financial suicide, so I think we are going to be putting up with the flaws in this game and it being heavily shaded to offense since chicks, as they say, (and gamers) dig the long ball.

[SouthShallRise]

i feel you man...i feel you^^...i hate games being taken away from me by the random super stupid play or the built in "keep the game close" programming

[nyknicks33]

i feel you man...i feel you^^...i hate games being taken away from me by the random super stupid play or the built in "keep the game close" programming


My personal favorite is this: I'm well in control at the start of the game, I've gone up by a couple of scores and I am dictating everything. I kick off, and I just have this feeling in the back of mind that says, "this kick is being run back for a TD"...and it happens lol

[nepharius4]

I look at it this way, wierd things has happened like that in real football games, i know to some extent its the AI but i believe its the randomness that makes the videogame much more closer to a real football game.

What i dislike are people who replay EVERYPLAY that don't go their way, and people who do that are going to find what they are looking for. If you want to see something, youre going to see it. When i see a WR wide open i dont say its the stupid *** AI i say damn a blown coverage, because thats what happens in real life.

If my running back fumbles on a long drive, i dont think its the keep the game close programing, i say he was tired, i should've subbed him out or maybe the defender hit it at that exact time that the rb was not protecting it to his full extent.