Floyd Mayweather might switch to MMA! [Archive]

FighterforJC

December 23rd, 2007, 12:56 PM

To say that MMA is superior to boxing is like saying rally racing is superior to GT racing. After all, rally racing involves dirt, mud, snow, narrow roads, cliffs, etc, while GT racing takes place on a smooth tarmac course under the best possible conditions. But the fact is, no one in their right minds will claim that rally racing is superior to GT racing. At best, rally racing could be classified as your typical "extreme" sport, complete with Rockstar and Mountain Dew endorsements. The same thing with MMA. You can argue all day long that it's superior because not only are you allowed to punch, you can also kick, use knees and elbows and grapple. The only thing superior about MMA is that you get to see the matchups you like, there's not nearly as much politics going on in MMA as in professional boxing. But that's soon to change, especially now that Dana White has a monopoly on the sport. Since there's no more major competition like Pride, Dana White can be as political as he would like and be a tyrant over the fighters the way Don King is. And going back to MMA and all this nonsense about "reality based fighting," the reason boxing was even invented along with all its rules is because real street fights are boring. There's the shock value of seeing somebody busted up, but most streetfights end up with both buys rolling around like school kids. They are boring. Now some 200 odd years later or however long it has been since the Marquis of Queensbury rules was born, along comes MMA with these new "realistic" fighting styles that at the end of the day, is not much different from a typical schoolyard fight, perhaps with just better technique. The funny thing is, MMA fans cheer the loudest when the fighters are on their feet slugging it out, not when they're on the mat groping each other.

Jones85

December 23rd, 2007, 05:19 PM

Clap it up for fighter JC! MMA is boring.

digitalandroid

December 27th, 2007, 12:58 PM

Yea Boxing is much more exciting.

MMA matches is over in a minute while they toss around on the ground.

Evem WWE is more entertaining than MMA lol.

Tom2634

December 31st, 2007, 01:23 PM

The people who boo groundfighting are, as true MMA fans know, rednecks. These are the same people who think Chuck Lidell is the best fighter in the world. MMA is a sport and fighters aren't going to risk losing just to excite the fans. Don't get me wrong fighters want to put on a good show, but it's tough for them when 90% of the fans don't understand the ground game.
I'm not gunna argue about boxing on a boxing forum but the two sports are totally different and you can't compare them. But Floyd will get stomped on all day by B level MMA fighters without proper training (obviously). I'm not saying he doesn't have potential, if he works his takedown defense really hard he could be somewhat successful, but it takes years to develop a good ground game. Most MMA fighters have a background in wrestling or years of jiu jitsu, mainly both. Ground fighting is not something you can just pick up, it is extremely intricate and is 99% mental rather than athletic ability or strength.

BTW i'm really looking forward to this game, I do enjoy boxing, albeit not as much as MMA.

TDEEZY58

December 31st, 2007, 03:57 PM

Floyd needs to stay right where he is

Ghetto Phenom

January 1st, 2008, 09:06 AM

First off, I don't think Floyd will actually do MMA. He's considering it, but I don't think he'll do more than commentating. If he does fight, it'll be a one fight deal and please remember: STYLES MAKE FIGHTS. Floyd isn't going to be matched up with a great ground fighter. If he ever fights, it'll be against a stand-up type of guy.

Look at last weekend's fight with Chuck Liddell and Wanderlei Silva. How many times did they go to the ground? ONE. Just like there are boxers and punchers in boxing, you have stand up fighters and ground fighters in MMA. So if Floyd ever does fight, please believe it'll be against someone who is not well versed in the submission game.

Prince_RIP4eVa

January 1st, 2008, 11:21 AM

I prefer MMA to regular boxing(not much of a fan of each, but I thought i'd add my .02) but I can't see this working out too well for him.

FighterforJC

January 1st, 2008, 12:10 PM

It is BENEATH any respectable professional boxer, let alone the P4P best in the world, to fight under mma rules.

MMA is entertaining, but it is a parlor game compared to boxing. A sport is a sport, and mma is a sport also, and it also has rules. Its rules suck. Just because you're allowed to do more doesn't mean it's better. Just imagine the game of chess if they modified the rules, say, if the pawns were allowed to move just like the bishops, or if the king has the same power as the queen. More importantly, how about if you can "checkmate" the queen AND the king AND any of the knights to win the match? It cheapens the game. That's exactly what mma does to the sport of fighting.

TDEEZY58

January 2nd, 2008, 12:24 PM

Another reason he needs to stay where he is his hands. Floyd has very fragile hands and those MMA gloves are tiny compared to boxing gloves. One wrong move and it could end his career.

ray_glenn

January 3rd, 2008, 10:02 PM

MMA is entertaining, but it is a parlor game compared to boxing. A sport is a sport, and mma is a sport also, and it also has rules. Its rules suck. Just because you're allowed to do more doesn't mean it's better.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even possible to have discussion relating to both boxing and MMA without some one who's attached to one sport ripping and ****ing on the other sport. Too many times you see and hear MMA fans deriding boxing as a "dead sport" and boxing fans on the other end calling MMA a *******ization of organized competitive fighting. Frankly, it sounds pretty juvenile, and reeks of a lack of understanding of the general martial arts (under which boxing, standardized MMA, and all other practical, recreational, and traditional fighting arts fall under).

You were right about one thing, though... just because a fighter is allowed to do more doesn't mean it's a better sport, but it doesn't mean the opposite is true either... all it just means is it's a different type of athletic endeavour. All sports have their differences and none of those differences intrinsically make one sport better than the other... is soccer better than basketball because their players aren't allowed to use their hands to manipulate a ball? Is rugby better than football because they don't use helmets? Is swimming better than running because swimmers can't use their feet for their natural purpose of ambulation? All those questions are meaningless, and so is arguing whether MMA is better than boxing (and vice versa) because they're different sports that are meant to test abilities in a different range of human kinetics. It all comes down to personal preference.

I, for one, appreciate both boxing and MMA (and Muay Thai, kickboxing, Eskrima, full-contact karate, and other competitive martial arts) for their own merits, and don't feel the need to bash one in favour of the other.

BANKY

January 7th, 2008, 11:02 AM

I'm beginning to wonder if it's even possible to have discussion relating to both boxing and MMA without some one who's attached to one sport ripping and ****ing on the other sport. Too many times you see and hear MMA fans deriding boxing as a "dead sport" and boxing fans on the other end calling MMA a *******ization of organized competitive fighting. Frankly, it sounds pretty juvenile, and reeks of a lack of understanding of the general martial arts (under which boxing, standardized MMA, and all other practical, recreational, and traditional fighting arts fall under).

You were right about one thing, though... just because a fighter is allowed to do more doesn't mean it's a better sport, but it doesn't mean the opposite is true either... all it just means is it's a different type of athletic endeavour. All sports have their differences and none of those differences intrinsically make one sport better than the other... is soccer better than basketball because their players aren't allowed to use their hands to manipulate a ball? Is rugby better than football because they don't use helmets? Is swimming better than running because swimmers can't use their feet for their natural purpose of ambulation? All those questions are meaningless, and so is arguing whether MMA is better than boxing (and vice versa) because they're different sports that are meant to test abilities in a different range of human kinetics. It all comes down to personal preference.

I, for one, appreciate both boxing and MMA (and Muay Thai, kickboxing, Eskrima, full-contact karate, and other competitive martial arts) for their own merits, and don't feel the need to bash one in favour of the other.
Finally, someone with a brain. I'm glad you said something, cause that guy was getting on my nerves. I love Boxing, but that doesn't mean i can't like MMA. They are highly trained in their own way. For the guy saying boxing is better than MMA, get real. Boxing is good, but when you have f4663ts like floyd who turn their back to their opponents, never fight who they should and are completely detached from normal society, why would anyone watch? As for MMA, FLOYD would get smashed. Absolutely, smashed. He would get choked out, quickly.
Boxing is a great sport, but its dying. Im a fan and i see it. It's too bad, cause when you get two-real fighters in there(taylor-pavlik, corrales-castillo, morales-barrera) its very entertaining stuff. As for Floyd, he isn't a boxer, he is a runner and back turner and that is not boxing! whatever happened to protect yourself at all times?
MMA is not streetfighting, it is as technically proficient as boxing. I love the analogy of the kickboxer and the boxer used earlier. There is a reason he said kickboxer, because had he said wrestler, the final words to that sentence would be: and then the boxer passed out from the rear ***** choke applied to his neck. MMA is for real and if boxing isn't careful, they are gonna get passed up. Here's hoping the two sports can coexist without killing the other.

PS:
to me, that is funny as all hell when people talk about boxing and MMA like 360's and ps3's. Nothing but immature fanboys.

TDEEZY58

January 7th, 2008, 11:43 AM

BANKY

January 7th, 2008, 01:37 PM

Banky, I have to disagree with you. Floyd is a boxer and he's not as detached from normal society as you think he is. I acutally met him while out one night in Vegas and he's probably one of the nicest people you will ever meet. He'll shake your hand, take picture with you, and sign stuff if you want. The Floyd you see on 24/7 is a salesman. The more buzz he draws by acting like that means more dollars in his pocket. How can you criticize him for doing his job
Ok, If you make money by pretending to be an 455, why do it? Strictly for money? That's as shallow as it gets right there bro. I would not pretend to be something for more money. Why not promote a fight by saying, "Hey, i've fought the best and beat the best, come watch the best" He can't. He comes off as not caring about anyone but himself. And the way most of his family acts, yuk, its dispicable; especially Roger. The way he counts his money in front of people, just to show off. I never thought that i'd say that floyd senior is a much better person than his son, but there it is, i said it.

As for him not being a boxer, isn't the all about hitting your opponent while not getting hit? I've seen the same tatics that Floyd uses by Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Winky Wright, Paulie Malinaggi and others. Just because he doesn't make it slug fest doesn't mean he's not boxing.
Roy Jones-overrated runner, hopkins-just plain dirty(but does not run), winky-blocks every punch thrown his way but stands his ground, paulie-where do i start(he plain sucks, ex. ngoudjo), pernell-he ran but stood his ground when fight was in danger, something even floyd hasn't done.

Boxing isn't as dead as you think it is. Taylor vs. Pavlik, Pacquio vs. Barerra, Judah vs. Cotto, Cotto vs. Mosley, Mayweather vs. De La Hoya, Mayweather vs. Hatton, Calzaghe vs. Kessler, all great fights and entertaining. You've got Jones vs. Trinidad to start off this year and Hopkins vs. Calzaghe in the works. There are still matchups out there that fans will pay to see. As long as boxing has similar years to 2007 its impossible for the sport to be dead. To me there's nothing like a big fight in Vegas between two top competitors. I don't think it's dead, but it is dying because ufc has been bringing it every month with fights people actually want to see. Where bad decisions are very few and far between(you say hamil and bisping). Not like boxing where bad decisions are far more frequent. You know it and i do to. I would even venture to say that there is an element of boxing that is rigged. I have a tendency to believe that refs, judges and even announcers are biased, paid off, or just plain shills for their company line.
Yes, there are a lot of great fights but both fights you just mentioned feature real fighters, guys who will stand toe to toe. Although, bernard has a tendency to let his fights become boring so he can win.

MMA has steroid issues that are being ignored, fighters who are making waves about being under paid, commentators who are afraid to say anything bad about the UFC (i.s. Bisbing vs. Hamil horrible decision). MMA isn't going anywhere but I would like to see bigger fights stacked on one card instead of being spread so thinly all the time. It seems the UFC and others are starting to sandbag some of the fights they could use as undercard fights and they are making them main events.Boxing has steroid issues as well, you are making it sound like because sean sherk has been caught that noone in boxing has ever been caught doing this. Vargas, mosley and various other boxers have been caught as well. They were punished, UFC guys are getting punished, what's the big deal? You bringing up people being ****ed about being underpaid is not that bad of a deal and isn't that big of an issue seeing as how the top fights with the top guys are still being made. They can't be getting paid all that bad. Besides, do you want the UFC to follow boxing's blueprint for how to pay and take care of your fighters, cause in no way is boxing an exemplary basis for the world of MMA to follow(at least not in how fighter's get paid). At least in the MMA world you aren't gonna get railroaded by sleezy promoters fighting over who gets to keep your money.
Lastly, you made a comment about how the UFC is sandbagging fights.
NO F'N WAY!
silva vs. liddel was an undercard fight! Who was the undercard fight for mayweather hatton? that's right, lacy vs manfredo. Boxing proliferates with 54itty ppv's constantly. There are plenty of examples. UFC gives some of its best fights away for FREE! gonzaga ripping cro-cops head off with a kick-free tv. A UFC ppv that was televised for free recently, for the second time in a year! When was the last time PBF fought for free? Delahoya? anyone?

I still have HBO and Showtime, strictly for the boxing, because i love it. Something to be said about two men throwing fists at each other that makes for compelling sport. I still love it.
But for one second don't try to convince me that UFC is more corrupt than boxing, that UFC has drug problems-all sports do, that UFC is not as popular-its gained more on boxing in 5years than we think(ask the people involved with boxing if this MMA stuff has hurt their wallets), that its ok to act like a ******* if it makes you more money-its not, that UFC has scared commentators(joe rogan talks 54it makes mistakes and will rip on people for doing stupid things) compared to boxings commentators(don't make me get started on lamp, merch, max, emmanuel(f'n idiot, stick to training). The only one that makes me listen is the champ, lennox. Cause i know that you can't talk 54it to the champ. lol, little joke.

I love boxing. It's never going to die. But it will start to erode if the powers that be don't start doing something. We'll see.

eye guy

January 7th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Mayweather in MMA is as bad as saying that Pippen will succeed in a comeback to the NBA. I'm not saying that he won't, but unless he has added more to his arsenal of combat skills he might not. If you watch him fight he's not really the attacking type. That's just my view on his furture if he was to go to MMA...

TDEEZY58

January 7th, 2008, 04:58 PM

Ok, If you make money by pretending to be an 455, why do it? Strictly for money? That's as shallow as it gets right there bro. I would not pretend to be something for more money. Why not promote a fight by saying, "Hey, i've fought the best and beat the best, come watch the best" He can't. He comes off as not caring about anyone but himself. And the way most of his family acts, yuk, its dispicable; especially Roger. The way he counts his money in front of people, just to show off. I never thought that i'd say that floyd senior is a much better person than his son, but there it is, i said it.

Do you know how easy it is to make some one look like a a** on TV. I think the way Floyd is presented and portrayed is a lot different from the person that he is. All I can say is I've met the guy and he's not the same guy you see on TV. He's very humble and fan friendly. You complain about the guy you saw on TV but I gurantee he's not bad as you think he is. How can you say that Floyd Sr. is a better person than his son after he was going to train another fighter to beat his own flesh and blood but De La Hoya wouldn't give him enough money. If DLH would have given him 2 million he would have been in his corner. He's real model citizen :thumbsup: Give me a break.

Roy Jones-overrated runner, hopkins-just plain dirty(but does not run), winky-blocks every punch thrown his way but stands his ground, paulie-where do i start(he plain sucks, ex. ngoudjo), pernell-he ran but stood his ground when fight was in danger, something even floyd hasn't done.

Tough to counter most those but for the most part they are all low risk fighters. I don't think you understand the mental frustration that you put your opponent through when you do that. You could see the frustration mounting on the faces of DLH and Hatton. As soon as they got ready to hit Floyd he'd already beaten them to the punch and scored with a straight right. That strategy works for Floyd. Isn't he entitled to do what works for him? There are times where I think Floyd should put in more work but I don't see anything wrong making them miss and then making them pay.

I don't think it's dead, but it is dying because ufc has been bringing it every month with fights people actually want to see. Where bad decisions are very few and far between(you say hamil and bisping). Not like boxing where bad decisions are far more frequent. You know it and i do to. I would even venture to say that there is an element of boxing that is rigged. I have a tendency to believe that refs, judges and even announcers are biased, paid off, or just plain shills for their company line.

I'm not saying that the UFC has more bad decisions but none of the annoucers wanted to admit that the judges got wrong. We both know Hamil won that fight. Nobody said anything. I want them to disagree on something. Everybody is always in agreement with each other. Admit it, it lovely to hear the back and forth between Merchant and be it Jones or Lennox or whoever.

Yes, there are a lot of great fights but both fights you just mentioned feature real fighters, guys who will stand toe to toe. Although, bernard has a tendency to let his fights become boring so he can win.

What's a real fighter? This is boxing. Not everybody can be like Pacquio, Pavlik, and Gatti. You're coming down on Floyd because he doesn't fight like these guys. He has his style and they have theirs.

Boxing has steroid issues as well, you are making it sound like because sean sherk has been caught that noone in boxing has ever been caught doing this. Vargas, mosley and various other boxers have been caught as well. They were punished, UFC guys are getting punished, what's the big deal? You bringing up people being ****ed about being underpaid is not that bad of a deal and isn't that big of an issue seeing as how the top fights with the top guys are still being made. They can't be getting paid all that bad. Besides, do you want the UFC to follow boxing's blueprint for how to pay and take care of your fighters, cause in no way is boxing an exemplary basis for the world of MMA to follow(at least not in how fighter's get paid). At least in the MMA world you aren't gonna get railroaded by sleezy promoters fighting over who gets to keep your money.

Right now the UFC isn't going to have that problem because Dana has input a strategy to where no 1 fighter becomes larger than the sport. I think eventually they are going to run into a problem. In this past event that was held the only fight I wanted to see didn't even happen. I wanted to see Serra vs, Hughes. While the Silva vs. Liddell was a great fight, it should have happened at least 2 to 3 years ago.

Lastly, you made a comment about how the UFC is sandbagging fights.
NO F'N WAY!
silva vs. liddel was an undercard fight! Who was the undercard fight for mayweather hatton? that's right, lacy vs manfredo. Boxing proliferates with 54itty ppv's constantly. There are plenty of examples. UFC gives some of its best fights away for FREE! gonzaga ripping cro-cops head off with a kick-free tv. A UFC ppv that was televised for free recently, for the second time in a year! When was the last time PBF fought for free? Delahoya? anyone?

You aren't going to see boxers fight for free but then again when was the last time you saw anybody fight for free. I don't think its that simple. The major network like ABC, CBS, NBC would televise these events because they had the coporate sponsorship. Then again, no fighter actually fights for free. They feel its more profitable to put fights on PPV and they are free to do that.

I still have HBO and Showtime, strictly for the boxing, because i love it. Something to be said about two men throwing fists at each other that makes for compelling sport. I still love it.

Me too.

But for one second don't try to convince me that UFC is more corrupt than boxing, that UFC has drug problems-all sports do, that UFC is not as popular-its gained more on boxing in 5years than we think(ask the people involved with boxing if this MMA stuff has hurt their wallets), that its ok to act like a ******* if it makes you more money-its not, that UFC has scared commentators(joe rogan talks 54it makes mistakes and will rip on people for doing stupid things) compared to boxings commentators(don't make me get started on lamp, merch, max, emmanuel(f'n idiot, stick to training). The only one that makes me listen is the champ, lennox. Cause i know that you can't talk 54it to the champ. lol, little joke.

The UFC isn't corrupt at all. I think the UFC's popularity can directly drawn to this notion:

The UFC gives you instant gratification. We live in a society where people want blood and a KO and the UFC gives both of that. Why do you think they stand them up so fast? People want action all the time and they give that to them. I'll even go as far to say that while Randy Coture is great fighter, his style of winning is very boring. Most of the time he ground and pounds his way a victory. I think sometimes Mike Goldberg and Rogan give too much commentary just like Lampley and Co. Sometimes I wish they would all shut the hell up and let the fight play out. Sometimes Rogan will say something so far off base and he'll never correct himself. While Lampley and CO. have their faults, you have to admit there is something about the way he calls fight and how he creates some type of drama. It not about whether its ok to act like an a** to sell tickets or not. Look and Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz acted before their three fights. They both acted like a**h**** and then when they reconciled they said they were doing it to sell the fight. I don't see you coming down on them. Floyd doesn't take the fork out of your mouth so you can't do the same.

I love boxing. It's never going to die. But it will start to erode if the powers that be don't start doing something. We'll see.

Boxing may be eroding but at least it still has the better Buffer. Somebody needs to tell Bruce to stop yelling in the mic. You have to agree on that.

I'm huge fan of both sports and I think they can coexist. I really just like debating on topics like these. I don't know if you saw the interview with Rampage and Judah but both stated that they attend each others events. Judah goes to MMA events and Rampage goes to watch boxing all the time.

digitalandroid

January 7th, 2008, 10:40 PM

I actually would like Mayweather to go into MMA with Cuban, so UFC will have some competition.

ray_glenn

January 7th, 2008, 10:58 PM

Just to chime in on the corruption and scandal debate:

I think MMA organizations and matches are just as prone to allegations of fight-fixing and corruption as boxing. The only reason that boxing is viewed in a much more negative light with regards to this is because boxing has been around longer, and thus, has a longer history of rigged fights, dubious decisions, and general corruption.

The reason why the fighting sports (not just MMA and boxing, but Muay Thai, and other, less popular competitive martial arts) are so easy prey for people who fix matches and take advantage of the inevitable betting that occurs in these events is because it's a lot easier to influence the odds in a fight. Best-case scenario for the fixer, he only have to pay one guy to throw the fight and he can completely change the outcome in a fight and cash in on a bet. It's not like in basketball where a fixer can pay one guy, but if that guy's teammates play well despite him intentionally missing his shots and committing more fouls than necessary, his team can still win. Even in the case of disgraced NBA-ref Tim Donaghy, his spurious calls stood out to statisticians and Vegas oddsmakers, which led to him being caught on charges of influencing a game's outcome. There isn't a reliable way statisticians and oddsmakers can get clued in that a fighter has intentionally thrown a match, because so much of a fight can hinge on just one punch.

Rapcity

January 7th, 2008, 11:18 PM

he would destroy MMA competition, he will knock everyone out he faces, it will not even be close, and that is a guransheed.

BANKY

January 8th, 2008, 10:01 AM

Floyd would get killed. Done dada.

deezy,

I'll agree with most everything you said, except the floyd thing. What he does, his so-called style, is not boxing. He has a philly shelf style where he turns his back over 50 percent of the time and runs the rest of the time. Personally, I thought and still think that De La Hoya beat him. De La Hoya showed ring generalship by chasing him around the ring and stalking him the whole time. Not only that, but he threw more punches. He may not have landed as cleanly as Floyd, but he was still more active and landed more punches because of it. Not only that, in the championship rounds, when de la hoya has been known to try to be floyd(ex. fight with tito), he didn't. He stayed and fought and I thought, did enough to win the fight.
also, in floyd's fight with hatton, Floyd turned his back ALOT! Hence the point deduction for hitting in the back, that hatton didn't even hit him with after review. Also, everytime they were on the inside, joe cortez would break them up because floyd tied up everytime. I've heard it explained that if you tie up cause your hurt, that's ok, but if you tie up to stall the fight(which is what floyd did) then its not ok. Merchant repeatedly mentions this, going so far as to yell at joe during the fight, did you notice this? WHY WHY WHY WHY? What floyd does is not boxing! He's a runner, plain and simple. You asked what seperates real fighters from guys who aren't, well, its easy. If you stand your ground and slip and move while staying in front of your opponent without turning your back to him, then you are a fighter. I can name you quite a few boxers who fight like your supposed too. pacquiao, morales, barrera, marquez(both of em), vasquez, pavlik, de la hoya, castillo, chavez, cotto, mosley.
The list goes on and on of fighters who fight right! Like you are supposed too. I love boxing, but i hate guys like floyd who *******ize the sport. Also, I realize that its easy to make someone seem like a jerk on tv, but floyd counts his money for the camera, carries himself trying to make a spectacle at all times, mocks god by thanking him(as if god has anything to do with it) after fights as do most fighters which is the most ironic thing ever-maybe i should take this part out-lol, is arrogant in the ring when he should be classy, never fights who he should(cotto, margarito-ducking him for years, mosley) because he'd get mauled. Mayweather hasn't done anything to gains respect from real boxing fans. Yes, i think he's a good fighter, is he great, i don't know, he hasn't fought anyone great. hatton-floyd fights him at 147? should have happened three years ago at 140 when mayweather was still ducking everyone. dlh vs. may-may got his *** handed to him, everyone knows it. waited till dlh was past his prime to make this jump. Who has floyd fought-baldomir(gimme a break), judah(after losses to spinks and tzyu), gatti-why?
why hasn't he fought any of the giants at 130, 135, 140(hatton don't count-fought at 147), or 147? He thinks he's champ but is nothing but an alphabet title holder.

Ok, im done. lol. can you tell i am a floyd hater? If he stood and banged and made people miss without turning his back to them, i would love floyd because of his fast hands and power.

TDEEZY58

January 8th, 2008, 12:05 PM

He's not really turning his back but what he is doing is give you a smaller target. Look at his feet. His stance is very closed and he doesn't give much of a target to hit, which is why if anyone wants to beat him they need to throw a jab. I really think Floyd's strategy is to frustrate you, make you miss, counter, and pot shot for 12 rounds. You see him stalling, I see it a different way but both ideas can equally be true. While Floyd does use some defensive tactics that you don't agree with you can't deny what happens when he lets his hands go. Even with the stuff you're claiming he does when he started putting punches together Hatton had no answers for them. I want to see Floyd be busier in the ring too but I don't think he should have to go outside of himself to do that. He can be more active while implementing his same strategy and I think that Floyd used Hatton as an example as to what happens when he puts it all together. Let's be honest Hatton hits and holds. Watch his fight vs. Castillo. He got just as tied up early as Floyd did early on. Hatton's 2 hook and hold style wasn't happening that night.

I'll agree Floyd hasn't fought who he should. I do recall Floyd calling out DLH when Floyd was still fighting at 135 I think and the fight never happened until last year. I'll admit some of Floyds tactics are borderline. I didn't hear Merchant but I'll watch it again and listen for it.

While DLH vs. May was close, Floyd beat him. Floyd Sr. doesn't even like him and he admitted at the end that his son won. Oscar abandoned his jab after the 8th round and that's what cost him the fight. Oscar could have jabbed his way to victory. By no means did Floyd win that fight convincingly but I gave it to him 115-114.

Hatton made the decision to move up to 147 to fight Floyd. I think the same result would have happened had they fought three years ago. In regards to Judah who redeemed himself by KO'ing Spinks, won 5 of the first 6 rounds in their fight but he faded in the end like he always does. I would really like to see Floyd clean up the division so people would give him the credit he deserves. After his little vacation he needs to beat Cotto, and then whoever comes on top out of Cintron and Williams. I don't think he proves anything by fighting Margarito or Mosley. If he wins they say he beats an old Mosley and slow Margarito. I also don't like the idea of him bouncing around from 130 to 147. It doesn't work too well. He needs to stay in between 140 and 147.

BANKY

January 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM

While DLH vs. May was close, Floyd beat him. Floyd Sr. doesn't even like him and he admitted at the end that his son won. Oscar abandoned his jab after the 8th round and that's what cost him the fight. Oscar could have jabbed his way to victory. By no means did Floyd win that fight convincingly but I gave it to him 115-114.

Hatton made the decision to move up to 147 to fight Floyd. I think the same result would have happened had they fought three years ago. In regards to Judah who redeemed himself by KO'ing Spinks, won 5 of the first 6 rounds in their fight but he faded in the end like he always does. I would really like to see Floyd clean up the division so people would give him the credit he deserves. After his little vacation he needs to beat Cotto, and then whoever comes on top out of Cintron and Williams. I don't think he proves anything by fighting Margarito or Mosley. If he wins they say he beats an old Mosley and slow Margarito. I also don't like the idea of him bouncing around from 130 to 147. It doesn't work too well. He needs to stay in between 140 and 147.

Wrong! Floyd Senior said that he thought DLH won. You need to rewatch the fight. At the end Floyd SR. said he thought DLH WON! Also, you calling giving a smaller target, but i don't agree. If he turns his back to you, then it should be legal to hit someone in the back. I'm not saying that Hatton wasn't a holder or isn't, but in the fight with Mayweather, who was holding? Floyd, not hatton(at least till the end, lol)! Oscar did abandon his jab, and it is eventually what cost him the fight. but i don't think he looked any less effective to be honest after the 8th round. Even if you give floyd every round from the 8th on, who won the first 7? DLH, that's who. You can make the case for one round out of the first 7 for floyd, after that, its debatable. I just don't see it any wore than a draw or one point win for DLH, too this day.
Judah was never a frontline boxer. he suffered from the same stuff mayweather did, he never fought anybody dangerous, and when he did, he got ktfo(tzyu)! Sure, he was hyped, but hype does not equal reality. Floyd might beat everyone on my list from earlier, but will it garner him respect if he fights like he always does, turning his back and running! Quite frankly, no. He should have already fought Margarito, when the rest of the world was clamoring for it 2 years ago. As for Williams and cintron, they aint fighting. Cintron backed out. I don't think he'd win anyways. Williams is good and i scored his fight with Margarito a draw, i Don't give rounds to guys who just throw with no intention of hurting their opponents. If you saw that fight, i can guarantee that had the fight gone 15 rounds, williams would have got knocked out. As it stands, i still think williams is a great champ and someone who would kill mayweather. He fights like mayweather(philly shelf), punches more, has a better chin(after campaigning at 147 his whole carreer), and fought better opposition already at this point in his carreer. He'd kill mayweather. williams is fighting Carlos Quintana, a tough fight in itself.
Look, after all this, I just gotta say, floyd will go down as the most overated fighter of his day. He'll be considered a good fighter of his day, but one that was brought along carefully. People will remember that he never fought the best in any of the divisions that he fought in. People will remember that in his biggest fights, he ran from opponents. People will remember that he was arrogant. AND I THINK, PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THAT WHEN HE FOUGHT THE BEST IN THE DIVISION(if he ever does-cotto, williams are his last chances) HE LOST!

Rapcity

January 10th, 2008, 12:53 PM

BANKY

January 10th, 2008, 03:50 PM

you have no knowledge what so ever if you don't think PBF is an amazing boxer, and you have even less knowledge if you think that Money Mayweather would get beat in a MMA fight. He punches 5 times as hard as any MMA fighter, and he is twice as quick.

I love kids. Money Mayweather, lmao.

Do you really believe what you write? After what you wrote, you expect me to lend credence to your opinion? You expect me to fall over and say, "well, you're right". Nope, aint gonna happen and no uneducated piece of crap such as yourself is gonna tell me I have no knowledge of something I watch with a passion! I mean, you can say it, but it don't mean anything. so their, take your baseless opinions of floyd and shove em.

hell, the only reason i watch PBF is to see if he gets KTFO!

Rapcity

January 10th, 2008, 04:11 PM

I guess the undefeated pound for pound best fighter in boxing isn't great. LOL!!!!! You are a white collar white stiff who hates to see a ***** on top.

Mugen

January 10th, 2008, 05:01 PM

Mayweather isn't going to fight in mma anytime soon.

Jones85

January 10th, 2008, 08:57 PM

BANKY

January 11th, 2008, 12:05 PM

Banky im sorry buy you entirly contradict yourself when you dont give a round to fighters who throw ineffective punches. What do you call those amateurish shots that DLH was throwing in bunches to the body...10-15 at a time that had as much effect as peoples crap talking behind a computer. Mayweather still landed almost 100 punches more than DLH through the fight even with those amateur POINT shots DLH was throwing.

Here is the stats from that night
Total Punches De La Hoya Mayweather
Landed 122 207
Thrown 587 481
Pct. 21% 43%
Power Punches De La Hoya Mayweather
Landed 82 138
Thrown 341 241
Pct. 24% 57%

Mayweather has never in his entire CAREER thrown B.S. punches because it looks flashy. Mayweather is the best of his time and with further fights he will become an all time great. Fights with Cotto, Williams and even the great Manny Pacquiao...who by the way is said to be collecting belts in 08 from 130-140 so it is a reality.

I scored the fight with DLH easily for Mayweather. If you say Mayweather didnt do enough to win....what the hell did DLH do? He did not effectivly cut the ring off and his POOR attempt at infighting was a discrace to mexican fighters. You also have to remember floyd JUMP into the division to fight DLH and fought him at 148 DLH was coming down from Middleweight.

Please respond I would love to debate.
I love debating boxing too bro. I don't mind debating with someone who intelligently discusses the sport, as you and I are. But rapcity, what a joke. Anyways, on to you, deezy, lol.

Compubox doesn't give credit for punches that don't land cleanly. If you took your own tallies, you would see this. You may not give DLH credit for the inside punching it takes to beat floyd, but he was doing it because floyd runs. How do you catch someone like that, that keeps running? You can cut off the ring, yes, but not if he turns his back to you in the process. I'm mexican(despite what rapcity thinks) and i appreciate the mexican style of fighting. That's why i like James toney, he's what the philly shelf style should be, not running type like PBF. As for DLH dropping weight, he's a natural 147 and floyd is a natural 130. So, yes, i understand that analogy.
Here's some of the things you can't argue about PBF.

He has consistently ducked the best in his division, until recently. And that's only because baldomir did win the ring/undisputed belt and pbf did beat him. And i do give him credit for that.

He is arrogant on TV and not at all endearing to the fans who only know him through the TV, which is easily 95%.

He employs a philly shelf style that his been criticized time and again for not being exciting enough for fans. Pernell whitaker may have been one of the best ever, but fans didn't care for him due to the style in which he fought. people fight for the fans, they pay the fighters.

Lastly, Floyd has been carefully guided through his carreer which is why most fans and pundits today believe him to be the No.1 pound for pound. If floyd had fought who he was supposed to fight from the time he entered boxing till now, its almost a certainty that he would not be undefeated. Of course, he probably could have too, we'll never know.

I don't hate floyd, I just dislike the way he boxes. I don't think its boxing. I don't think he is that great. I think if a ref ever decided to enforce the rule of protect yourself at all times and let opponents hit floyd in the back whenever he turns it to them, you'd get different outcomes to his fights. Look at the way James Toney employs the philly shelf, the same way sugar ray and sugar shane did/do. That's how its supposed to be done, without turning your back to your opponent. By slipping and countering and without putting your elbows is someones neck and face before you punch them. Think about it, when is the last time PBF got docked for something in one of his fights? Did you ever watch the first bout with JLC? Easily he lost 8 rounds in that fight, but his peck and counter and move and turn your back and run bs saved him the fight, pure robbery in my opinion. The second fight, PBF knew he could stand with him and did. That fight and the one with Diego corrales are where my little respect for floyd come from. He stood his ground and actually fought. Has he done that since then? NOPE! When are you gonna take floyd to task for not fighting who he should have for the last five years?

BTW, you didn't mention anything about floyd SR saying DLH won,,,did you catch that on you tube? How can you disagree with floyd's dad?

Jones85

January 11th, 2008, 01:19 PM

Nicely said but i dont need to watch Youtube as I record most everyfight. Mayweather Sr. for one said his SON won but he at the end said if you have to give it to the agressory you'd have to say DLH won. Also in my honest opinion I think SR wants a rematch to happen so he can be in the opposite corner this time.

Floyd's style is not running....BOXING is the sweet science not the sweet bar fight. Its the art of hit and not get hit and Floyds "Running" is only setting up his opponent. AKA Ricky Hatton did not get caught with a lucky left hook it was a well timed and WELL SET up strike as some may think different!! Not saying that you said that anywhere.

Second to recap careers and all time greats.

Sugar Ray Leanords most Prized moments in his career was:
Raberto Duran 2-1 against him and he fought him late in his career
Thomas Hearns:1-0-1 First person to beat Hearns but up to then, who did Hearns fight?they fought again and it was a....DRAW! he got his AS* whipped in that fight and knocked down twice.
Marvin Hagler: this was the most debated win in his career and probably history of Boxing.

Recap of Mayweathers Career:

De La Hoya: Much Controversy but I scored it 116-112 For Mayweather...and my areguments were in the preveious post. Also shots that dont land clean are obviously not counted.

Ricky Hatton: if he won, he would have been the GREATEST british fighter ever....he got knocked the hell out with a white wash on the score cards minus I think it was the 5th round on my count.

Carlos Baldomir- Did not win a single round only reason why he fought Floyd was because he beat Judah before...otherwise this would not have happend (shut the critics up with he didnt beat the champ).

Zab Judah: one of the most talented fighters in any era just not one of the best, but he has been the undisputed champ and fought big name fighters...he has never ducked anyone.

Sharmba Mitchell- Good fighter...lost to top fighters Ko in 6

Arturo Gatti: and I laugh everytime I hear this fight....HA HA HAAA! what an imberassment as the reporters were saying this could be Mayweathers Kritonyte. KO in 6 and Gatti was the "Champ"

Castillo- One of the Great Mexican fighters of this day...beat twice by Mayweather and both Unanimus...just because a fighter has never been "pressured" before doesent mean he lost.

Chavez- 35-1 at time of fight 35-2 after 9 rounds with Floyd.

Diego Corrales- 33-0 27 ko's coming in 33-1 after 10 rounds and 5 knock downs

Floyd won the tite at 18 fights in his career. 18 fights.

Who they say hes been ducking.....
Margarito---same outcome as gatti...same type of fighter plus Margarito has fought so many journeyman fighters no real champs on his record.
Williams: who has he fought----Margarito, Sharmba??
Shane Mosley: He turned Floyd down earlier and Floyd is returning the favor... Shane is to old and already said he is on his way out.
Cotto---this fight will happen I believe deep down. but floyd is doing something Sugar Ray Leanord did....retire come back and fight the BEST---in Hagler.

Now the fact that Mayweather "turns" his back is just from his stance that hes in. you make it seem he turns around everytime he thinks hes going to get him....it is a defensive posture yes which has got him to 38-0 with only one fight being a split decision and again in my eyes should have been unanimous.

eye guy

January 11th, 2008, 01:41 PM

I'm sick of this argument, lol... How bout we all agree it shoulda been a draw???

endzone16

January 12th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Honestly, i don't think EITHER man did enough to win that fight. Oscar was too tentative and Floyd was glad that he was. Neither one went all out for a clear cut victory. Shoulda been a draw in my opinion.

Jones85

January 13th, 2008, 04:51 PM

You heard it from me first....HA HAAAA!! My boy Floyd is going to fight Oscar in May to Knock him out this time at welterweight. I for one would love to see this fight again. I enjoyd the anticipation of the first fight the fight was a chess match at best, but I think with Floyd coming up confident about having a DAZZLING KO over Ricky Hatton I think he will be more adept to being more agressive and showing what he can do offensivly and being the first to Really knocking out Oscar as the only other one had him rolling around say OOHHHHH OWWWEEEE OOHHH!!!

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 07:25 AM

Banky 1st off it's philly shell NOT shelf second off who did he duck if u watch as much boxing as u say u do u would know that $$$making Mayweather has been trying to fight DLH since his fight with tony pep oscar just didn't give him a shot until he was already washed up and like Jones85 said who's their for him to duck no one is on his level right now his toughest opponent recently was zab do to his speed at least for the 1st half of the fight

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 07:30 AM

jones85 r u sure that info is new and not from their previous fight because didn't they fight in may the 1st time? can u tell me where u seen this

BANKY

January 14th, 2008, 08:57 AM

it's a tentative date for the second fight between Goldie and money mayweather.
shell/shelf, what's the F'n difference?! How you gonna get on me about that, when you can't spell do/due right?
"due to Zab's hand speed". I tell you what, Do either of you know who Dougie Fischer is? Maxboxing.com? I write to him all the time and he/like myself think mayweather is pound for pound #1. That does not stop me from pointing out that he ha ducked a myriad of people on his way up to the top. Floyd has been careful all the way to the top.

Here is some correspondence from me and dougie fischer(By no means do i talk to him all the time or does he answer me all the time but on this particular topic he did):
--- Ritchie Manjarrez <rmanjarrez@vikingpools.net>
wrote:

Dougie,
I know you said that you didn't want to put any more floyd emails in your mailbag, but i got a question for you. How many legitimate champions and guys worthy of fighting has Floyd ducked through the years? I can think of a few. tzyu, spadafora, freitas, casamayor, margarito. But who else has he skipped over. So many times i remember thinking to myself, he should be fighting so and so, not sharmba mitchell. How quickly people forget that PBF has been ducking great fighters his whole career. Is their an article you could point me too, or maybe you can publish a list and say, "this is everyone that PBF ducked on his way to the top. When he should have fought this guy, he fought this guy. When he should have fought this guy, he moved up in weight." Can you feel me? Everybody is riding this guy's jock and i just don't see it. I think back to the time that Larry merchant half yelled at Joe Cortez about Floyd's illegal tactics during the hatton broadcast. That's how i've felt about PBF the whole time! So, what do you think Dougie? BTW, saw you on the 24/7 buildup for trinidad and jones. Looking mighty clean cut, but tell me that they don't put makeup on your face before you go on camera. If that's just the way you look on tv, then you are damn pretty man, lol. If not, tell them to cut that 54it out.
Thanks,
Ritchie

Thanks for the kind words, Rich.

No make up added for the Countdown shows, HBO's
producers just happen to be masters at studio
lighting. LOL.

It's funny. I watched it with my wife Thursday night
and she told me my skin looked "flat", whatever that
means....

PBF was not eager to fight any of the guys you
mentioned (despite what he said in public). One guy
you left off your list, who was promoted by Top Rank
the whole time Floyd was the 130 pound champ, and was
only five pounds north, was Stevie Johnston. Top Rank
offered that fight more than once to Floyd and he and
his people flat-out refused. That would have been a
very good 135-pound fight.

Also, Floyd turned down Julio Diaz in favor of Philip
Ndou (ugh!) and he turned down both Vivian Harris and
Mohamed Abdulaev in favor of Henry Bruceles (UGH!).

He passed over Casamayor at 140 pound to fight
Mitchell at 147.

He's a careful guy. He wants that undefated record
intact, which is so silly. Aside from Marciano, fans
and historians don't care about undefeated records.

Dougie

That is an honest to goodness response from one, Dougie Fischer from Maxboxing.com.

_________________________

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 10:26 AM

its not from the first fight I just know....Im not going to tell you how I know because its irrelavent and will be put in the media spotlight soon. I can tell you though they are the only two that have been negotiating a contract.

As far as ducking these guys and why he picked who he picked....

In 2002 as far as the 135 division, Stevie Johnston, had one fight a MD win over Alejandro Gonzalez then moved up to 140 almost a year later without any furthur fights. At that time was when Floyd Mayweather moved up to 135 before STEVIE moved up. This was Floyds two wins over Jose Luis Castillo and Phillip NDou. After this Floyd moved up to 140 where Stevie is, but the only problem is, Stevie has been losing and will not get Floyd any closer to a title shot by fighting him. So for Floyd, fighting Corley and Brusales it garnard him a title shot at Arturo Gatti!!!! HAHAHAAA!! We all know what happend their. At the same time Stevie had a TKO loss that negated his chance to fight Floyd in an elimination match to fight the Champ. Then Stevie comes back after a 2 year layoff to fight Floyd at this time Floyd is starting his march towards the Golden Boy who he has wanted to fight since he won his first belt at 130. Why would floyd fight a fighter coming from a 2 year layoff and a TKO loss?? No gain from it.

Vivian Harris..........

The end of 2002 was when Vivian got his title shot and won. 2004 when Floyd came up to collect the belt he got into a rumble with Oktay Urkle that demanded a rematch. Floyd didnt turn down Vivian Harris, Harris fought 2 months before Floyd fought...Harris fought October of 04 and floyd fought january of 05 against WHO?? Brusales. Harris wanted a fight later so Harris signed to fight Mausa....and um Harris has been a journyman everysince. KNOCKED THE HELL OUT.

Julio Diaz................

Not much to say here....he has only made a splash because HE FINALLY won an alphabet belt. Remember his defence against Jesus Chavez it was so dramatic so thrilling it was a 3rd round TKO......oh wait no it was dull nothing happend and Jesus Chavez tore his ACL and had to retire in the 3rd..... DIAZ IS NOTHING AND A JOURNYMAN he is not a great or even a good fighter. He had some headlines because he participated in a unification match, because he had the IBF.

Mohammed Adbulaev.........

Won the Olympic Gold, clap it up for him, but that was amateur boxing and the two are like night and day.....he has not done anything in the pros. Except get knocked out by Cotto. He lost his next fight and has not fought since.....2005.

Joel Casamayor.........

Tremendous fighter. but isnt this when he lost 2 of his last 3 fights and wanted to fight Mayweather?? What does that bring to the table, oh im the greatest fighter ever I beat a bunch of Journyman that would get me nowhere. plus Casamayor never even had a fight at 140 his closest attemp he got the 137 in 06 when Floyd fought Zab.

Now guess what.....so him ducking his opponents???? Who has he ducked. The people he "ducked" cant win a fight when they are supposed to. The one and only time he did fight someone still after losing a fight was Zab Judah and what did he get from that, oh he is not the real champ because he lost to Baldomir and Baldomir was to broke to pay all the sanctioning fees that he only got one of Zabs belt. So what did Floyd do, He made Baldomir look like any of Mayweathers past opponents, he made him look like NOTHING....

Mayweather has been fighting TOP fighters for the last several years because he earned it. He will be fight Oscar in a rematch in May or he may move it up to April. I know because I know boxing and participate so what you hear in the media means nothing just buildup to whatever. So all the Floyd hatters will turn to love him because he is a living legend and about him keeping his record clean, of course, I dont want to lose so I am careful as well. Now adays boxing if you have a loss on your record most casual fans wont look at you.

BANKY

January 14th, 2008, 11:47 AM

Lets be honest, floyd has been a careful match maker his whole career! If he wanted to fight the top fighters, who would he be fighting? Not DLH! He'd be fighting Cotto, Williams and Margarito to cement his legacy.

But no, he doesn't want the dangerous fight, never has. He's trying to make money. How you can even defend his fights with brusseles, mitchell and zab, when there were much better fights to be made is ridiculous. Cmon bro, when has he fought the best? Only a couple times in his whole career. He could cement his legacy or make money? He has enough money, so why not cement the legacy?

BANKY

January 14th, 2008, 11:49 AM

Also, you don't really believe you know more about boxing than dougie fischer do you? If one of the best boxing writer' of our generation doesn't like Floyd and knows that he ducked challengers, how can you on your best day, unless you are part of the inner circle of boxing by working at hbo or showtime, know more about boxing than Dougie Fischer?

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 12:20 PM

Dougie Fischer is doing his thing but to say he is the only one who knows boxing is rediculous, its not like boxing is a secret like this game. I am in boxing but not for HBO or Shotime, but its irrelevent to this argument. Do you think it would be smart to fight Cotto right now, with not much buildup? or down the road when this is a MEGA fight? Why match up all the good up and coming fighters in the beginning of their career when they can match up a little later in a Legendary event? Cotto is still young and can put some more wins on his record against the likes of Paul Williams and Margarito. Hell you can make an argument on Cotto's record. He has fought not many top names actually none until his last two fights....in Zab and Shane...only Zab has been losing and Shane is old and on his way out. Cotto is one of the best up and comers be he is not a mega superstar yet and he is definatly beatable....Floyd will fight him I believe in December if all goes well.

Zab is fighting Margarito and Paul Williams is fighting Carlos Quintana. Cotto should fight the winner of one of these fights on the undercard of Mayweather Vs. De La Hoya 2 to build up for a December fight.

One funny thing I would like to point out....a fighter who is a mega star or a legend in the past....Name ONE fighter who has fought the BEST in his or her division their ENTIRE CAREER....you are not allowed by the commission to fight a champ your first time out you have to build a record first. Nor would anyone or should anyone fight the best right off the bat like they used to back in the day. Can you name one fighter who has 30 wins with 30 past/ or current champs on their record? Floyd is still just getting started as much as you guys believe he is going to retire.

List of Respectable fighters he has fought...

Oscar De La Hoya
Ricky Hatton
Zab Judah
Arturo Gatti
Demarcus Corley- he lost a close split decision to Zab prior to this fight for the title. Which was the right fight to take to get to the Champ.
Phillip Ndou---he was an ok fighter but still someone to bring up....their was big hype about this guys power....he ws 31-1 with 30 kos when he fought Floyd. Ndou was a more dangerous target than Julio Diaz ever was.
Jose Luis Castillo- twice
Jesus Chavez
Diego Corrales
Angel Manfredy- who was a good up and comer.

Now once again your take on fighters he is ducking....

Cotto--already said above.
Williams--Has not beat anyone yet and not a big name. Only two notable fights, Margarito and Mitchell.
Margarito--Lost to Williams and will not cement any legacy- he is a b class fighter. If he was Oscar's level of popularity then Floyd would be right on his door step.

But its cool, Dougie Fischer knows all. Which makes me wonder, why would he bring up Stevie Johnson? He should know all the situations that I brought up.

Floyd is not like only because he is confident and makes his fights to easy....he is not arrogant but he is flashy....people like Hatton because he is "just like them" a piece of trash who goes to the local pub and drinks his life away. Only Ricky is not a piece of trash and actually does what he loves and gets paid very well. The rest of them are talking about how great they were in years past to Ricky at their Local pub.

I have great respect for Mayweather because he is the TOP PROFESSIONAL and not your AVERAGE JOE....he does not Drink, he Eats CLEAN, HE TRAINS HARD and HARDER THAN ANYONE IN ANY PROFESSION. He does not take a day off from this and he is a gentleman despite what you guys think and what the media presieves him as. Meet him in person and you would think different. Boxing is a business and that is why if you ever want to film him or record him he will be straight to the point and say no only still pictures.
He gets a lot of people on a daily basis asking the same thing so he may come off as a jerk but he really isnt, just knows what you are going to say and already has an answer for it.

I dont see your argument as something to continue on because its only going in circles at this point. Good Debating with you!

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 12:53 PM

Oh yea and as far his him ONLY fighting De La Hoya and not fighting Cotto, Williams or Margarito. Who do you think is already a sure fire hall of fame fighter? De La Hoya, Cotto, Williams, Margarito? The only one on that list I can name will be De La Hoya. If Cotto starts losing he will turn out to be just like Zab Judah.

Now this brings me wondering...you make it out to be that these fighters are better than Floyd and has fought all on comers and beat the top competition.

Margarito list of fighters....
Paul Williams....lost
Kermit Cintron....killed him but Kermit is a Journyman at best still...he is still growing as a fighter.

******I origianally didnt put Joshua Clottey on here and refuse to because Margarito got whiped in this fight, Clotty hurt his left hand on an uppercut and could barely use it the rest of the fight but I still think he deserved the win******

thats all I can think of for him

Paul Williams.....
Sharmba Mitchell
Margarito

Cotto....
Zab Judah
Shane Mosley
Paul Malignaggi---great boxer but will not be a great fighter....he looks like your Dougie Fischer by the way.
Corley- Cotto almost got KO'd in this fight. If he was against a finisher he would have lost.
Torres-Cotto almost lost this fight. Again If Cotto got hurt against a finisher he would have lost.
N'Dou...

So I dont see an argument for Margarito or Williams, Cotto a little bit but he still needs to Clean up the Journymen Champs in Margarito and Williams and Cintron.

Zab will be making a comeback by the way!

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 02:10 PM

Banky i was under the impression to be the best u have to beat the best who has margarito and williams beaten if u say Floyd hasn't been fighting the best out there because their resume isn't nearly as impressive as PBF and how u gonna disrespect Zab he did way better than DLH or Hatton did he actually dropped PBF even though they didn't score it as a KD and why do u care so much about what this dougie guy says it's like Barkley said nobody is an expert analyst because it's just an opinion just b/c he has his on site does not make him right on the subject just look at skip balis he is on tv and i rarely agree with what he says skip, dougie you just a bunch of HATERS to me u my man just tested positive for H.I.VExclamation

TDEEZY58

January 14th, 2008, 02:46 PM

I love debating boxing too bro. I don't mind debating with someone who intelligently discusses the sport, as you and I are. But rapcity, what a joke. Anyways, on to you, deezy, lol.

On to me? Was that really necessary. I like debating boxing as well but I disagree with the personal jab. I don't know what I did to get put in the same category as rapcity. Damn.

Jones does have a point about Cotto. Corley had him out on his feet.

This tentative rematch between DLH and Mayweather should be interesting. Will DLH use his jab for the entire fight this time or will Floyd's counter straight right stop him?

BANKY

January 14th, 2008, 03:36 PM

I'm sorry deezy, i meant to say jonesy, your name in their was a mistake. sorry.

sdot, its not that i don't respect floyd. I think he is pound for pound #1 right now. But, i think there are times in his career that he could have fought better opposition than he did. Anybody who looks at floyd's career knows that he has been very careful in his selection of opponents.

Tell me, what was the point of fighting, Gatti? Is the point of the game to make the most money or win the most titles and be the best? I agree that Cotto, Margarito and Williams have not fought a lot of great opposition, but they are the best in the division, even when pbf fought Gatti. So why fight Gatti? Why fight Sharmba when he could have fought Stevie Johnston. Why turn down the 8 million to fight Margarito to take less to fight Gatti? Answer that.

Throughout his career, he has skipped out on the best. That's just the way i see it. Why skip over casamayor at 140? Why initially skip over hatton at 140? Why skip over all the real welterweight contenders? Why not fight tzyu? Tzyu killed Zab in 2 rounds, what would he have done to money, who one could argue got his arse handed to him the first few rounds against zab.
I don't mean to discount your boxing knowledge bro, just pointing out the fact that even some of the greatest boxing scribes today think floyd has been careful. Look at list of quotes by larry merchant and see what he thinks of money.

I personally like Dougie Fischer, he likes the old school style of fighting. Not saying he knows it all, but he knows alot.

If anyone wants to, i recommend that you check out his mailbags on monday and friday at maxboxing.com. Lots of good info in those.
Anyways, yeah, we're going in a circle. It's cool guys, i'll be back to check this site on friday, i have a conference coming up that i gotta leave for, but i will return. We should start a boxing thread in the off-topic forum. I'll definitely be back on the 19th to chit chat about tito vs. jones. jones by majority decision. That's my call.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 03:47 PM

i think he fought gatti a) for the money b) to prove to himself and others he could beat the bigger stronger man allegedly ala RJJR vs ruiz and as far as cotto, williams, margarito being the best they are only the best by default being that every one he fights he beats so they move up the rankings not because of what they accomplished but b/c of what he did it's a never ending cycle you guys will name somebody he'll beat them and then instead of him getting credit they will just come up with somebody else for him to fight he won't get any credit until he really retires then u will look back and appreciate him

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 03:59 PM

TDEEZY58

January 14th, 2008, 04:05 PM

All good Banky.

Didn't Floyd get offered 8 million to fight Margarito around the same time there were rumblings about him possibly fighting De La Hoya? I don't remember him getting offered 8million until after the Baldomir fight, but I could be mistaken. I remember the 8 million, but I can't remember the timing. It was either before his fight with Baldomir or before his fight with DLH, but I'm prettt positive it was after Gatti. I'm gonna look it up and see if I can find it.

While Williams is a top welterweight, I don't think he's even ready to face Cotto. I agree with you about Williams' fight with Margarito. Williams was ready to go in the 11th. I don't know what kept him on his feet. What I found interesting was how he won that fight with a very simple strategy. He threw 2 jabs and straight right all night long, but it didn't seem like there was anything behind them. Occaisionally he'd throw in a 2 hook combo to the body but that was it. Around the middle of the fight Williams tried to fight on the inside and started eating body shots like no other. If Margarito's body punches hurt Williams what do think Cotto's would do? That fight showed that Williams has a little bit more learning to do. The only true fight out there for Floyd is with Cotto, but I think Cotto should dispose of Williams.

Larry Merchant is a little biased in some of his opinions on Floyd and others, and am I the only one that thinks he occasionally has one too many cocktails during some of the broadcasts.

Based on the article that I posted below it looks like you're right. Instead of fighting Margarito in August, he fought Baldomir in November, but he very well could have had a hand injury.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 04:06 PM

" look at the over book greatness always gets overlooked Jordan was 3rd pac had to move west to get heard"

TDEEZY58

January 14th, 2008, 04:08 PM

Here's an article I found on ESPN concerning the 8 million:

Mayweather turns down $8 million to fight Margarito
By Dan Rafael
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: April 25, 2006, 5:27 PM ET
Email
Print
Pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr. rejected promoter Bob Arum's $8 million offer to fight welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito, and he instead exercised a provision in his contract to buy Arum out and become a promotional free agent, Arum told ESPN.com on Monday.

According to Arum, Mayweather turned down the career-best purse to meet Margarito on Aug. 12 on HBO Pay-Per-View, instead opting for free agency by buying Arum out of their deal for $750,000.

"I did hear from him," Arum said of Mayweather. "He decided not to fight this summer. I made him a tremendous offer. I think Margarito is the riskiest fight for him of anyone out there."

Mayweather adviser Leonard Ellerbe told ESPN.com that Mayweather passed on the fight not because he is ducking Margarito, but because he couldn't be ready to fight by Aug. 12. Mayweather injured his right hand during a dominating April 8 victory against Zab Judah.

"Floyd is not 100 percent healthy," Ellerbe said. "He has a bruised right hand. His hand is not broken. It's bruised, but it's a bad bruise. He wants to go into any fight 100 percent healthy. If Antonio Margarito happens to be the best available option when he is healthy, so be it.

"We are not turning down Margarito. I want to make that crystal clear. When and if he is the best available option for Floyd's next fight, that's the direction he will move in."

With Aug. 12 no longer set aside for a Mayweather fight, Arum said he will use the date to feature one of his other stars, heavyweight titlist Hasim Rahman, in a mandatory title defense against Oleg Maskaev on HBO PPV.

That bout, a rematch of Maskaev's 1999 knockout victory, took on greater significance last weekend in the wake of Wladimir Klitschko's title-winning knockout of Chris Byrd in Germany.

The reason: Among the four recognized heavyweight title holders, Klitschko became the third from a former Soviet republic to beat an American to win a belt, leaving Rahman as the lone American heavyweight champion and Maskaev poised to give Eastern Europe a sweep of the titles in boxing's marquee division.

Arum said Mayweather preferred to await the outcome of the May 6 Oscar De La Hoya-Ricardo Mayorga fight instead of committing to Margarito because he would prefer to fight De La Hoya.

"We're not sitting waiting on De La Hoya," Ellerbe said. "He's in a tough, tough fight with Mayorga."

Many in the sport believe a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight is the biggest fight on the horizon and the only one capable of generating 1 million-plus buys on pay-per-view.

The reason Mayweather opted for the buyout rather than waiting for the May 6 result was because the contract had a limited window for the buyout, one that expired before the De La Hoya fight. However, Arum said he would have extended the window if Mayweather had asked. What Arum wouldn't do, he said, was raise the guarantees for other fights outlined in the contract.

Arum said while Mayweather would have taken the $8 million to fight Margarito, he asked for a $10 million guarantee to fight opponents such as Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton, when Arum was only willing to guarantee $7 million.

Arum said Mayweather also asked for $20 million to fight De La Hoya, a fight Arum said he wasn't interested in participating in.

"That's not in the cards," Arum said. "He wants $20 million for the De La Hoya fight? It's not there. Sometimes, my man, you gotta know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. We'll talk about things down the road."

Ellerbe said Mayweather opted for the buyout so he could be "more in control of when and who he fights next. It's as simple as that. There is nothing bad between Floyd and Bob."

Arum agreed that the split with Mayweather was not on bad terms like their brief breakup last year. In fact, Arum said, "We intend to be back together. Everything with this was honorable and good. I had offered him numbers [for a multi-fight contract extension] that were livable. His expectations are in the stratosphere. He was entitled to buy me out, and he did. We decided this was the best way to handle it. He is a free agent. We have agreed to work with each other [in the future]."

The split frees Mayweather to make a potential deal with De La Hoya without Arum as part of the promotion. His involvement would have made making a deal almost impossible: The head of Top Rank has openly feuded with De La Hoya, his former superstar, and their companies rarely do business together as a result.

Arum said he was simply not interested in participating in a De La Hoya-Mayweather fight, but not because of his distaste for De La Hoya.

"I don't want to, because if I did that fight, I would be working for such a small percentage, it's not worth it," he said.

BANKY

January 14th, 2008, 04:40 PM

y do u keep referring to other people's opinion i could just as easy give u people who think other wise forget dougie fischer and them what makes there opinions any more valid than yours or mine if a professional art buyer told u a painting was gorgeous and u thought it was hideous would that make u wrong b/c he's quote unquote a pro and larry merchant is a racist IMOP and if u don't agree u must admit he is HATER! he use to say the same things about Roy plus he is a HOMOSEXUAL so there that go do u really want to agree with a certified ****
Because, art is subjective. dougie's opinion is more valid because he is around the sport everyday. We watch on TV every friday and saturday, that's why. No matter how hard Dougie tried, he could not convince me that Jermaine Taylor is as good Marvin Hagler. But then, i respect the opinion because he doesn't try to tell me that. He tells me what he believes, like that floyd is ultra careful and i give more credence to the opinion because of his background, get it? larry does have a couple extra drinks before the broadcast at times, Everyone in america can see it. But, he has always been the one to do the least amount of HBO shilling of their own fighters. lampley, love the guy, but biased. same with max kellerman, emmanuel(its cool that he trains boxers too, was awesome when he had his own show, webster. lol) and roy jones when he did it. They are shills for the company fighter's. Larry is not racist though, he has been nice to a lot of black boxers. but yes, he is a hater, that's for damn sure. A hater against almost anyone that employs the philly shell, cept for James Toney. He thinks, and rightfully so, that it creates boring fights where fighters turn their backs way too much. Sound familiar to what im saying?

It's normal to cite other sources, its a way to corroborate your opinion.

deezy,
a hand bruise kept him out against margarito? a bruise? how long do those take to heal, couple months max? maybe a couple more? the point i was making, he took the easier fight. That's what he did. There's no if's and's or but's about it, that's what he did. As for cotto, i don't think he should have to beat williams. Mayweather, since he's won the welterweight title has fought twice in the welterweight division since then. With Zab and Ricky, both blown up junior welters. When are we gonna start taking floyd to task for not fighting who he is supposed to? alright, i am gonna check this once more tonight around 6 pacific, then i gotta start packing for my flight first thing in the morning. later fellas.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 06:15 PM

banky the man is 100% certified HOMOSEXUAL how can u agree with him that alone lets me know me and him r not on the same page ain't even readind the same book u should choose ur allies a bit more carefully okay ur right about me trying to convince about how GREAT $$$Making Mayweather is but that's only b/c it's so clear to see

"THEIR I GO BEING IGNORANT THAT GET ON MY NERVE EVERY MINUTE WHAT'S PLAIN TO SOME IS REALLY BORBURY PRINTED"

TDEEZY58

January 14th, 2008, 07:11 PM

I don't know what was wrong with the man's hand but I don't have any evidence that he wasn't hurt so who knows. He has had a history of fragile hands. I would have rather seen him fight Margarito in November of 2006 instead of Baldomir. Based on what that article said it looks like Floyd wanted to fight Hatton and Cotto but Arum wouldn't give him the money that he wanted. The ironic thing is he ended up getting the money he wanted by fighting DLH and Hatton. I'd really like to see DLH promote the Cotto vs. Mayweather fight instead of DLD/Mayweather 2 because its gonna look a lot like the first fight.

The one issue that I have with a lot of Floyd's critics (Merchant in particular), nothing is ever good enough. If Floyd was to beat:
Williams (who shouldn't get a shot until he beats Margarito)
Margarito (who may not get past Judah)
Cotto ( probably the best matchup for Floyd)
Merchant would probably still complain and say he ducked Mosley, Pacquio or DLH (in a rematch). Merchant criticizes the man even after he gets KO i.e. Ricky Hatton. What is that? Set aside the holding, elbows, and forearms, Hatton had no answer when Floyd put punches together.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 07:15 PM

which is why merchant is a HOMOSEXUAL

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 07:42 PM

You know what is hilarious is that if he didnt fight Baldomir because he beat Zab prior, he would have been considered ducking Baldomir. Its funny you can only be a legend if you die or retire....no one can give credit to greatness as its happening.

So why would he fight Gatti instead of Margarito....couldnt be for the money as you were pointing out.....Could Margarito fill a stadium to watch you fight???? No. Gatti vs. Mayweather could. Could Mayweather vs. Margarito cement his legacy. No because either he was to slow or over matched or coming off a long layoff because no one would fight him. Some excuse would come about. The world wanted to see Gatti vs. Mayweather. Gatti was going to be the first to beat Mayweather. Gatti is to big for Mayweather. Gatti will take the fight to Mayweather. Mayweather is not what he used to be. Gatti has to much heart for Mayweather. Gatti is Thunder....it was called thunder vs. lighting we know who was who and like Floyd says, Thunder just rumbles and makes noise, but lighting strikes. We know what happend afterwords....now since Mayweather Killed Gatti you all are arguing that.....he was over matched....he was not the best out their.....he was to slow.....funny.

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 07:43 PM

I may follow in the path of Margarito.....he hasnt fought anyone and still he is a living legend!!!! Wow, he is better than Ali, Tyson, **** Tiger, Jack Johnson, Hopkins, De La Hoya, Mayweather the list goes on and on....he is great...

He is a Journyman Joke.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 07:46 PM

jones85 talk to em'

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 07:51 PM

Oh by the way, who determines which fighter will cement your legacy? What has to be on the fighters you beat resume inorder for it to count??? giveing someone 8 million and turning it down and fighting him when people say your ducking him??? or a fighter who has had 3 EPIC battles with a great fighter in him self? Or what?? So why would Margarito cement his legacy? Why would Cotto? Why would Williams? Why not Berto? Why not Cintron? why not me? or you? Answer??? baffled huh? well you need the public to gain intrest in the fights....Margarito vs. Mayweather? I would rather watch opera. Margarito is not fast nor agressive so how could he even match up? I want to see De La Hoya vs. Mayweather II, Mayweather Vs. Cotto, Mayweather vs. Pacquioa,

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 08:16 PM

damn jones i gotta dis agree with u hear i don't wanna mayweather vs de la hoya DLH is not good enough to be fighting pretty boy he has too many loses for my taste once u get 5L's ur done in my book SUGAR, TITO B-HOP PBF he should fight zab in a pink slip match as far as COTTO goes i watched the Zab n Sugar fight and he doesn't appear to have the stamina to his type of sustain his type of fight against 3M plu i like him as a fighter so that leaves pacquioa i heard he's an exciting fighter but personally have not watched many of his fights so it would not bother me if Floyd K.O

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 08:23 PM

No I agree with Floyd fighting De La Hoya again because Floyd has been chasing him since he won his first belt, De La Hoya kept running from him and going up in weight...Then to finally get him, beat him convinsingly and to get a SPLIT decision? It leaves a sour taste in my mouth if that was me. Floyd needs to fight Oscar and KO him if he does that, it WILL cement his legacy way more than Banks self proclaimed Legend in Margarito.

Jones85

January 14th, 2008, 08:25 PM

If you havnt seen Pacquioa then your missing on one of the all time greats. Go Youtube him and watch him....130 pound fireball, non stop attack with precise punches, not like Ricky Hatton or De La Hoya against Mayweather or Paul Williams. He hits HARD.

Sdot927

January 14th, 2008, 08:32 PM

that's what i've been hearing but just don't see him at that weight having enough power to really hurt himt o keep PB off that ***** i mean he has taking punches from both gatti and **** i mean hoya now granted it was not their best punch due to his tremendous defense but he still got hit so if they couldn't hury him how is paqiuao plus do u really think he can take mayweather's did u see gatti's face the pain in his eyes

BANKY

January 15th, 2008, 12:03 AM

You may be right about PBF guys. He could be the greatest of all time. In my book, a fighter will be judged in history by one question: Did he fight the best when he was the best? And the answer, emphatically, no.

The fact is, he has not fought the best, consistently. Yes he has fought a lot of good and great guys and schooled them in the process. Margarito is not a living legend, but at that time he was riding a wave and was doing great. Even now, he is a big lumbering jackhammer with a chin carved out of granite. Williams didn't knock him out. But, Margarito would lose to PBF by decision. Williams would lose that fight by decision. Cotto will lose by decision to pbf. Nobody right now could catch him. Could he knock out a legitimate welterweight? Remains to be seen fellas. We'll see if he retires.

Jones85

January 15th, 2008, 02:05 PM

Williams not knocking out Margarito was not a big surprize...Williams does not have that one punch power that Cintron has in that division. He throws a lot of punches as you saw. Hell he barly KO'd Santos Pakau hitting him I think 70% of the time. It took him 6 rounds and a million clean shot for the Ref to stop the fight.

But one question has yet been answered by you Banky, WHO is the best that Floyd hasnt been fighting. Dougies argument of Stevie Johnson has to be the weakest thing I have ever heard from such an expert. Sugar Shane ran from Floyd and now he is done that fight should not happen. Cotto will happen but I believe he would KO Cotto. Just like Ricky Hatton, Cotto has a tendancy to let he right hand down from defence, Not as much as Hatton, when he throws hooks with his left. Floyd uses that Check left hook as much as some people use the Jab, only his left hook can knock people out ala Hatton, Corrales and more.

Floyd has not knocked out a legitamate Welterweight yet but he will. He has spent the last few years in the division and he is pretty much natural at that weight now. I would like to point out that Floyd started at 130 and Ricky Hatton has been at 140 his entire career and has only been hurt a couple of times in his career. So shoving that KO out the door is nonsence as far as not giving Floyd any credit for that KO.

I still dont understand your take on who the BEST out their is for Floyd. Everyone you have mentioned have done nothing to become the best but get media exposur. You know who I think the better opposition out their is in Welterweight?

Joshua Clottey- Tremendous fighter, I personally believe if he didnt break his hand in the fourth round he would have KO Margarito in 6. He had Margarito hurt plenty of times and I still think he should have won that fight on decision. He was the last person to beat Diego Corrales (RIP). He is better opposition than Paul, or Antonio.

Corey Spinks- Remember, he was the undisputed champ in this division at one point. He can still come back down and fight at this weight. Tremendous BOXER and with fast hands, no power though.

These two are much better opposition than Margarito and Williams at this point. Most people would say no only because they dont get any MEDIA!

Their will be a must see event and it will not be Cotto vs. Mayweather it will not be Williams vs. Mayweather, it wont be Margarito vs. Mayweather.......one person that I think will be cleaning up this division will be Andre Berto. A few years from now after Cotto and Mayweather fight, their is going to be a big frenzy over Berto Vs. Mayweather. Berto will fight Williams this year. Berto will fight Cintron this year. Berto will fight Cotto this year or next year.

Andre Berto is going to be the next pound for pound after Mayweather retires.

TDEEZY58

January 15th, 2008, 03:43 PM

Jones you're making some great points.

Judah and Margarito are scheduled to fight in April. Is this fight a must win for Margarito? I think it is if he wants to stay relevant in the who gets to fight Mayweather sweepstakes. The question is, does Margarito have to win by KO to gain the respect that he feels he isn't getting or will a unanimous decision be enough?

On Mayweather/De La Hoya II, if Floyd wants to KO Oscar he's gonna have to throw more than 35 punches a round and play defense all night. Jones, if you still have their first fight watch the the 5th round again (I think). Osacr is backing Floyd to the ropes and Floyd hits him with a counter left hook and then a short right that briefly shakes up Oscars legs. I'm not saying that Floyd could KO him with one punch but I do think with an accumulation of punches Floyd has a very small chance of scoring a KO, which you think he desires. If he really wanted to score a KO he'd have to get on the offensive. He would have to go to the body early and often and would have to tag DLH with a counter straight right anytime Oscar leaves his jab out there. Its a long shot but I think its possible.

I really like the idea of a fight with Corey Spinks. Its not the most exciting matchup but it pits two very good boxers in the ring with each other.

Jones85

January 15th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Yes sir i saw that and noticed it live. Mayweather can Knock out De La Hoya

Jones85

January 15th, 2008, 04:26 PM

also Judah vs. Margarito is huge for the welterweight division. If Judah wins he almost definatly gets back in the talk for rematches. If Margarito wins he will get a rematch with Paul Williams before he gets a crack at Cotto or Mayweather.

Although, Judah is moving up to light middleweight.

TDEEZY58

January 15th, 2008, 06:21 PM

There isn't a lot for him at light middle. He already beat Spinks. I know Piccirillo wasn't the greatest of an opponent but Forrest looked damn good against him. I think would give Zab a bunch of problems. De La Hoya wouldn't fight Zab because he's just as money hungry as anybody else and that isn't big enough to get waht DLH would want. Zab needs to beat Margarito and get himself back in the mix at 147.

Jones85

January 15th, 2008, 08:55 PM

yea their isnt much. Zab Judah is definatly one of my favorite fighters. He has to be the most gifted, and one of the most ferocious when he has you hurt. He will definatly make a comeback. He did well against Cotto and I think he would have done better had he not been suspended and if that fight on Friday night fights didnt end the way it did. He caught Cotto with his signature uppercuts but was retaliated with several low blows which if you are a man you know it takes a lot out of you...even though we wear cups it still hurts, also the cup digging into your thigh takes some out of your legs as well.

Jones85

January 15th, 2008, 09:18 PM

and like i said in an earlier post Sr will train oscar to beat Jr.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=12062

payton#34

January 16th, 2008, 12:12 AM

and like i said in an earlier post Sr will train oscar to beat Jr.

http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=12062

That's funny! Floyd Sr. dissing Freddie Roach like that. What did he accomplish as a fighter? And as a trainer he's no better than Roach. Floyd Sr. talks like he's the best trainer since Dundee, Futch or D'amato. Please!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what Oscar needs to do to beat Floyd Jr, THROW MORE JABS! Floyd Jr. is a rhythm fighter and a good jab offsets everything that he does. You see in the first fight when Oscar was jabbing, Floyd had no answer, as soon as Oscar stopped jabbing, Floyd Jr. got his rhythm back. If Oscar keeps a busy jab in Floyd's face and mixes in some body and power shots here and there, he beats Floyd easily in a rematch!

Floyd Sr. is way too full of himself!

payton#34

January 16th, 2008, 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=Jones85]
Joshua Clottey- Tremendous fighter, I personally believe if he didnt break his hand in the fourth round he would have KO Margarito in 6. He had Margarito hurt plenty of times and I still think he should have won that fight on decision. He was the last person to beat Diego Corrales (RIP). He is better opposition than Paul, or Antonio.

I'm glad that someone finally sees what i see in Clottey. I always tell my friends that Clottey would be Floyd's biggest threat at 147 because he's strong, durable, has a quick left hook, good power, a great chin and tight defense. My friends think i'm crazy. You're right, Clottey stops Margarito if not for the injury. Margarito turned down a rematch with Clottey because he knew what was in store for him.

TDEEZY58

January 16th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Oscar should and would have thrown more jabs, part of the reason he stopped was because Floyd kept tagging him over the top with a counter right. Oscar needs to throw a stiff hard jab. Anytime he throws a soft he's going to pay.

There's one thing that going to stop DLH from beating Floyd Jr. and that's lack of body punching. Oscar isn't a big body puncher and that's one thing necessary to beat someone that moves as much as Floyd. The other issue is this, at no time did Oscar hurt Floyd or have him in trouble but Floyd did tag Oscar in the 5th which shook Oscar briefly. There were other times later in the fight where Floyd was landing at will and Oscar had no answer. I don't think the lack of a jab was the only reason Oscar lost that fight. I think Oscar is going to have to do more than throw more jabs to win a rematch because I have a feeling that we're going to see a better version of Floyd in the rematch too.

Jones85

January 16th, 2008, 02:49 PM

The fight got pushed back to September 20th....

Oscar's jab never threw Floyd off. Floyd will beat him easily again, and I highly anticipate a KO.

payton#34

January 16th, 2008, 03:00 PM

^^ I totally disagree. Even Larry Merchant pointed out that Oscar snapped Floyd's head back with the jab on a few occasions. Yeah, Floyd was hitting Oscar when Oscar was just coming forward walking in without the jab and trying to shoot power shots, but anytime Oscar sustained any type of jab, he threw Floyd off his game. And while Floyd did hit Oscar flush, i don't recall Oscar being shook at any point in the fight. I didn't say that the lack of a good jab was the only reason Oscar lost, but it was a MAJOR reason.

I watched that fight a few times and i really don't see where either guy was all that impressive. Floyd probably could've won more convincingly if he had just opened up on Oscar because he had the faster hands, but he was too leery of Oscar's big punches to do so.

And Oscar was way too tentative. He didn't fight the bigger man's fight like i thought he would. It was almost as if he was trying to prove that he could box with Floyd. Much like Hagler did against Leonard in the first four rounds of their fight, which is why Marvin lost those first four rounds.

I'd like to see Oscar and Floyd go at it again because i'm not convinced that Floyd really did enough to take Oscar's belt that night.

TDEEZY58

January 16th, 2008, 05:52 PM

payton#34

January 16th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Payton, take a close look at the 5th round a with a little bit less than half the round left. Oscar was backing Floyd to the ropes. Floyd threw a quick left hook and a short right that caught Oscar flush which caused him to stumble. I didn't catch that until I watched the fight for the third time.

Oscar can't fight a big man's fight because he is a boxer at heart. He's always been a boxer. It was his boxing that beat Tito, Shane (2nd time), and Vargas. He even out boxed B-Hop early in their fight. Oscar has trouble with people with faster hands than him i.e. Whitaker, Floyd, Shane (1st time). Its simply not in Oscar's nature to fight like a big man. He's a boxer.

I understand what you're saying and i don't mean that he should be Mike Tyson in there, but i think he can impose a little bit more will on the naturally smaller Mayweather. Oscar is bigger and stronger than Floyd and he should've been a little more forceful in there to use his advantages. I think he did that with Mosley the 1st time but Shane's tremendous heart got him through the rough spots in that fight. Plus it was smart to box with Tito, who was a huge puncher, and Vargas, who was naturally bigger and stronger than Oscar, and Hopkins, who was a natural middleweight. Oscar fought the right fight against those guys.

But against Quartey he laid back and boxed too much and it almost cost him the fight, it wasn't until he really went after Quartey that he got the job done, and that's the type of fight he has to fight to beat Floyd. I know he's more of a boxer but he can't outbox Floyd, so he has to be more aggressive behind a good jab to beat him. I think Hatton exposed a major flaw in Floyd early on even though he got knocked out later in the fight. He made Floyd very uncomfortable with the pressure, but i don't think the naturally 140lb Hatton was strong enough to keep it up as long as he needed to to win. I bet Oscar saw that and is looking to make the adjustments to beat Floyd in the rematch.

I'll watch the fight again tonight and see if i can catch what you're talking about in the 5th round.

payton#34

January 16th, 2008, 06:35 PM

The fight got pushed back to September 20th....

Oscar's jab never threw Floyd off. Floyd will beat him easily again, and I highly anticipate a KO.

Hopkins didn't even KO Oscar with a clean head shot, it took a pefect liver shot in 9 rounds of fighting a big middleweight. Tito couldn't KO Oscar when he was considered the hardest puncher in boxing at that time. Mosley, who has good pop, couldn't KO Oscar in two fights. A strong Fernando Vargas couldn't KO Oscar, so what in the world makes you think that Floyd will KO Oscar? He may very well beat Oscar again if Oscar fights the same type of fight, but a KO? I highly doubt it.

And Oscar's jab DID bother Floyd, as was pointed out by Merchant and Emanuel Steward. Oscar just stopped throwing it.

Sdot927

January 16th, 2008, 06:54 PM

1st off DLH is a HOMOSEXUAL so is MERCHANT so no wonder why he woold defend him so there that go plus DLH is no as good or physically or mentally tough as he use to be he's softy and will never beat $$$MAKER!!!

kahjah

January 17th, 2008, 11:25 AM

MMA is one of the most boring things on TV, a bunch of dude dry humping each other. snore

TDEEZY58

January 17th, 2008, 12:14 PM

The only thing Hatton got exposed to was Floyd check left hook and straight right hand which he got tagged with all night long. Hatton is an inside fighter but he has to hold and hit to be successful. Hatton can't fight in space and think Floyd exposed that. I really think Hatton jammed himself on the inside by getting in too close. Notice anytime Floyd had space Hatton was getting hit. Anytime they were close it looked like a wrestling match which is how Hatton fights. Watch his fight with Castillo. They get tangled up a bunch of times.

It was a stiff jab that bothered Floyd. Not that soft one that got Floyd countered.

Once you watch that 5th round you'll understand why I think Floyd could catch him late. Hopkins, Mosley, Vargas, Trinidad, none of them are as accurate as Floyd. Floyd is very precise with his punches and its rare when one of his punches just graze past you. Most of them land directly where he aims. Given the fact that Floyd is a counter puncher and Oscar is most effective when he comes forward, something has to give. I really think that could could catch him coming in.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 12:41 PM

How can you say MMA is one of the most boring things on TV. I guess the comment you made after that explains it though. You obviously have no idea how much preparation these fighters go through. Boxers only go through stand up boxing trainers. MMA fighters go through that as well as ground work and submission work. I am not saying some boxers couldn't succeed in MMA, but it would take a bit of training. They have no training on the ground. As far as MMA fighter going to boxing it would be a little easier transition since alot of them already have boxing coaches. Anyone who bashes MMA and loves boxing should take a look at both sports more closely. Boxing is a joke now, the mega fights everyone wants to se never happens until one or both boxers are past their prime. Main point being Roy Jones/Trinidad fight, 7 years ago it would have been a megafight, now it is a fight between 2 fighters just trying to hang on and get another big payday.

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 02:42 PM

vtcrb.....

I have to 100% disagree with you. I would love to start a debate with you on this subject. For you to say MMA training is supurior to boxing just shows that you have never trained in either sport before. Fighters in both sports give huge respect for eachothers training routine. MMA is more of a Johnny knows everthing but is a master at nothing. Boxing is all stand up hand combat and boxers are MASTERS at what they do. My fighting point is that your TOP MMA fighters have a record of something like 19-7-1 with 5 KO's and 7 submissions, something along that guideline. YOUR top fighter is MMA is Chuck Lidell who is the biggest DRAW and he has 6 losses in UFC alone I think. The Chuck Lidell Vs. Rampage fight drew the Largest NON BOXING PPV showing ever.....750,000 cough cough....pathetic for an owner who was cocky projecting 2 million plus PPV buys. Mayweather Vs. De La Hoya a NON heavyweight fight at that drew over 5 million PPV buys, a sold out arena and a sold out MGM 2nd party that showed the fight live their, 50 per seat and I think it was 5 or 10 thousand seats.

As far as it being easier for an MMA fighter going to boxing is easier, I beg to differ. You can say all you want they only have to watch out for one thing, punches. But they can only do one thing as well. A master at boxing, such as Floyd, would really teach them new found respect for the sweet science. And that is what it is......A SWEET SCIENCE.....their is nothing sweet about MMA, not saying their never will be. I was watching a debate on tv with the commentator of UFC and his only argument was that UFC is true fighting....but he failed to acknowledge that boxing is a controlled sport which makes it more pleasing because as an out, you cant hold on the ground. You are forced to man up and defend against punches. UFC by the way "no holds" fighting, has a lot of rules for haveing NO RULES.

Take a look at UFC's top "boxing" or top stand up fighter, Chuck Lidell. You see how wide his punches are? you see where he keeps his hands? you see his horrible footwork? you see his horrible feints? you see his lack of head movement? You see how slow his punches are and how long they take to land?

Also by the way.....boxing being "DEAD" is more of a media onslaught issued by UFC themselves. Ever heard of Lil Wayne?? he has a song out called "greatest rapper alive" and has gotten a lot of publicity for being "the greatest rapper alive" he has his few fans but in no way will he ever out do a legend......AKA UFC is making a strong media push right now but their only draw is Chuck Lidell who is 38 by the way....hmmmm just as old as Roy Jones Jr.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 04:04 PM

You are way off. I have friends that train in MMA and I would by far say they are "Masters of nothing". They can take you down and about 5-10 seconds and do some heck of ground and pound or submission moves. My main question is who told you Chuck Liddell is the top fighter. He may be one of the biggest draws but he is way down on the best fighters list. You ever heard of GSP, BJ Penn, Randy Couture, Fedor Emelianenko, Dan Henderson, Anderson Silva, they are just a few of the names that are better than Liddell. Liddell is still the top draw but the fighters I mentioned also draw huge.

I used to be a huge boxing fan when it was actually worth watching. I mean it is so watered down with all the titles and weight divisions. I mean heck Mayweather, supposedly the beset pound for pound fighter, can't draw a good PPV rating until he fought Oscar. Oscar is way past his prime but yet he still a huge draws. Who else draws PPV in boxing? Jones/Trinidad will probably draw well but they are way past their prime's as well. Jermaine Taylor he is just about done, unless he makes a huge turn around. Pavlik/Hopkins will be a good draw just because of all the racial tension it will draw after that crap Hopkins pulled. The heavyweight division is dead, all of the champs are awful.

As far as being a Sweet Science, those days are gone for now. Mayweather is the by far the best technical fighter, but I am still not sold on him being one of the best ever. Hatton was overrated, and Mayweather really hasn't fought anyone who is still in their prime when he beat them.

Boxers do go through tough training sessions, but nowhere near as physically demanding as MMA.

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 07:43 PM

that has to be one of the most moronic bandwagon post I have ever heard. Listen, I am a boxer and I train MMA fighters to box. It is just hilarious how you MMA fans can only BASH boxing. Chuck Lidell is the BIGGEST DRAW and he will be retiring soon, meaning your poor lil UFC will be in a slump. Funny thing is to I have heard BJ Penn is probably the best of the ones you have listed but ......

BJ Penn: 12-4-1
CSP: dont know who he is....
Randy Couture:15-8
Dan Henderson: 22-5
Anderson Silva: 20-4

you are just proving my point a little better. Your UFC is dying slowly. They are the XFL they are nothing compared to the legacy of boxing. Floyd is the only master of the sweet science?? Ha, do your research before you come at me with that nonsence. Only thing I can agree with you upon is that the Heavyweight division is weak....but a guy named David Haye will tear that division up here shortly. 19-1 18 KO cruiserweight Champ. Mark my words.

And another thing you just made a point for me again from my other post was how people were going to scream and yell about how Hatton was overated. If Hatton would have won, he would have been the BEST, GREATEST non American boxer EVER, more than Lennox, Calzaghe.....ANYONE. Now since he got knocked the F*** out, they are dusting it under the rug because you UFC fanboys cant take the fact that boxing has and will always have the most athletic, the most physicaly gifted, SMARTEST fighters to walk this planet. Only proves my point when my boy Floyd walks into the ring at 39-0 when all your little UFC buddies keep talking about how GREAT your 12-5 fighters are. Wait until they get out of the Amatuers and graduate then talk about greatness.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 07:49 PM

Damn Jones couldn't have said it better myself

TALK TO' EM

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 07:54 PM

Oh and let me Talk about your HALL OF FAME.....

Ken Shamrock----26-11-2
Randy Coutour----15-8
Roice Gracie---13-3-2
Dan Severne....who is the only one I give credit to 70-13-7......but it seems late in his career he had some actually a BUNCH of 1 round fights what are they 5 min? and he fought Tank Abbot, is Tank fighting that Youtube brawler??? Is this like Rocky? Damn I wish Floyd could fight a bum off the streets then we can really see how great he is.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 08:09 PM

Jones i feel what u saying but i can't lie i do like watching Kimbo knock mutha ***er's heads off that with that white guy he laid out besides the tree and he loooks as if he is seeing that white light they talk about is hilarious

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 08:18 PM

Sdot......Kimbo is nothing but a street fighter...he is doing his thing training....making his debut in MMA at 32 I think, but street brawlers fight no one but street brawlers....nothing more than if a senior went a picked on a freshman and filmed it.

And I definatly dont want to hear a statment about him beating a "boxer".....he beat a grandfather.....44 years old and been out of fighting for a number of years.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 08:50 PM

If you haven't heard of GSP = George St.Pierre, you obviously don"t know MMA, like you claim too. Unlike boxing MMA guys have to fight tough opponents alot, so they do have losses. They don't get hand fed jobbers who fall down at phantom punches. Most prospects in boxing don't face anyone who will challenge them until about their 10th to 15th fight. As far as the Hall of Fame guys you mentioned. Shamrock stayed around too long and didn't help his record. Couture obviously you haven't seen fight lately and Gracie dominated the sport when it started.

I really have to question your MMA knowledge if you don't know who Fedor is either. Dan Henderson has been fighting up in weight class and winning most of the time. He is now gonna to fight Silva for the middleweight title. You boxing guys really are funny you criticize a sport you obviously don't know. Feel sorry for the guys you training if you don't know much about the top fighters.

You claim how great Hatton is, did you watch any of his other fights, all of the punishment he took. He is an exciting fighter but he didn't have the technical skills to match of with Floyd. Who has Floyd beaten that has been considered a great fighter. Don't even mention Oscar, he is way past his prime. Who has Floyd beaten while the boxer was in their PRIME, when he beat them?

As far as the UFC dying out why don't you checkout the buy rates for PPV's and see who is in the decline. Check out the TV ratings too, UFC has some of the highest rated shows on TV. Great thing about MMA is they are willing to put high quality matches on basic TV as well as PPV. I guess you gonna say ESPN has boxing. Now those guys on their have great records.

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 09:02 PM

Read my earlier post.....

Biggest draw at a heavier weight class was your Liddell vs. Rampage....a pitiful 750,000 after your owner being cocky projected an easy 2 million....:(

Light Middleweights.......Light Middleweights broke previous record by Tyson vs. Holyfield....5 million PPV buys. sold out MGM....plus sold out second stadium showing the fight in the hoted about 5-10,000 seats. do your research....you call Tank Abbott worthy of fighting a hall of fame fighter? You call Joey gilbert championship material. You're facts are hilarious. Gabriel gonzaga?? 8-2 fighting for the championship? Wow UFC has horrible champs fighting Horrible fighters....Phantom blows sure their are some....you dont think UFC has any? sure you dont because you refuse to believe that your daddy is being smacked around into submission....

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 09:11 PM

and their is not point to naming fighters that Floyd beat in their "prime"....you dont know boxing obviously.

Second according to you fighters are out of their prime after their first loss meaning your UFC is way out of PRIME.

Diego Corrales...
Arturo Gatti.....
Hatton.....
Baldomir....dont like this one but he was in his "PRIME"
Chavez....
and much much more....

Please come back with some type of argument that supports your 12-4-1 greatest fighter ever to live.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:11 PM

jones i not saying kimbo is a tremendous fighter compared to actual boxers but the hold freshman thing is pushing it since these guy volunteer for that a lot the guys kimbo fights actually call him out so if a FM challenges a Senior to a fight and gets ***ed up i can't blame the senior besides i just said it was entertaining never said it was the evenly matched fights or the sweet science it is what is and that is mad F'n funny:rotfl:

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 09:21 PM

Check out the record of the "Great Fighter" Mayweather has beaten. Floyd is the best boxer today but that says how far boxing has fallen. I am waiting to see Floyd step up and take on Paul Williams and Cotto. I believe Williams is the best young fighter today. He beats those 2 and then he can claim he is the best in his weight class. I still don't think Floyd is one of the greatest fighters ever. I mean the guy has no KO power. When is the last time he actually knocked a guy out. Boxing is not all about power, but to be considered an all-time great he needs a couple signature KO's. If he is so great let him move up and fight Pavlik. MMA fighters fight up in weight class all of time.

As far as Tank Abbot goes, he was their from the beginning, one of the pioneers. He shows how far MMA has come from when it started.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:28 PM

has last ended in a KO what r u saying plus he has 20+ knock outs far more than ur favorite UFC fighter has and how is paul williams a step what big legend in the making has he beat like seriously where r u going with this? :confused:

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:31 PM

and what ufc fighter has been champion in 5 different weight classes name them give me the run down

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 09:39 PM

He didn't knock anyone out. How many wins he got compared to KO's. I think Wiliams is as talented as anyone Floyd has faced. I am not convinced Floyd is the best in his weight class until he beats Williams and Cotto. UFC fighter don't fight as much as boxers do. MMA takes alot punish on their entire body, especially lower body. That is why they don't have as many KO's. The first fight with Oscar was a decnt fight, but no need for a rematch. Floyd all about the $$$, so he will take the fight. This is a perfect example of him not fighting the top guys in his class but a guy who he has already beaten. why not fight Cotto or Williams? Cotto would be a a good PPV, Williams may not draw quite as high because alot of people don't know who he is. He doesn't want to fight guys who can beat him, doesn't want tarnish that record.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:46 PM

he knocked out RICKY HATTON what r u talking about now as far as him vs cotto i can agree with u that would be a fight i would definitely want to see but williams has a ways to go before he can think about getting in the ring PBF u have to earn a shot let him clean up the other contenders in the division 1st then come see why $$$ maker is P4P

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:48 PM

u know the DLH
Judah
Cotto
Hatton
Clottey
i mean some 1

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 09:52 PM

a wise man once said

"Had it up to here wit the fake S H I T they don't even wanna nig-uh to earn his just give and take S H I T"

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 09:54 PM

I really dont want to repeat myself.....Bank and I had a long conversation about this please read back a few pages and you will get the answer....Paul Williams has no KO power if that is what you are looking for...his KO percentage comes from sustained barage of punches....perfect example (Santos Pakau) look it up took him 6 rounds 600 punches at a connect rate of 50% plus. That is not KO power like Tyson, Cintron. Floyd is 130 pound Champ, 135 pound champ, 140 pound champ, 147 pound champ, and finally 154 pound champ.....you say UFC is fighting up? how is 24 pounds? 3 pounds mean a lot in boxing. So you want him to fight Kelly Pavlik? hell why not fight Mike Tyson? not saying Kelly is Tyson but its just ridiculous to hear.....Ricky Hattons KO was one of your "Phantom" punches huh? not a signature KO? what about Corrales? Floyd early in his career was being touted as "Tyson Power" at 130 pounds....he developed into greatness over the years.

But I urge you please look up my previous post and be a historian for a few hours and look up his fights and watch them....Gatti, Corrales, Chavez....or just find a Floyd Highlight real on Youtube. As far as im concerned seeing you say that Williams is the best just shows that you know nothing about the sport of boxing and have only seen his record.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 09:56 PM

I agree Williams could use some more seasoning, but Floyd has no reason for not fighting Cotto. I mean fighting Oscar again makes no sense. Williams could get 2 good fights in and fight the winner of Cotto and Floyd, but that wil never happen. Boxing promotors won't let it. Boxing would gain alot of fans back if they would have the fights that need to happen, instead of some of the joke fights they have. Unifying the title in each division would help as well. Having one champion in each class instead of 3 or 4. I used to love boxing, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, Tyson, Duran, Whitaker, Chavez ( in his prime), Jones ( prime),, I could go on and on.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:03 PM

thats pretty much what Mayweather is doing going through division after division like a lil D-Bo snatching Mutha F***ers belts off their waist witch is why he is the MAN!

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:04 PM

my fault Which

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:05 PM

Why is fighting Pavlik ridiculous I mean hell Roy Jones moved up, Hopkins and Toney moved up. Pavlik is only one weight class higher that Oscar. Most fighter move up at least a couple weight classes over their careers. I mean it is just natural to put on weight when you train and gain strength. Why is the concern with Williams? Only one post has mentioned Cotto, seems like Floyd ducking him.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:07 PM

So what fighter have Floyd beaten that you believe are Hall of Fame material. That is usually a credential for "All time Great. Maybe I should rephrase that, who has he beat in their prime who is Hall of Fame material?

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:13 PM

even though i think he 's a H O M O u have DLH is definitely a candidate in their prime
Hatton
Corrales
Castillo
Judah
i'll give u some more tomorrow i am trying to watch Barkley and Kenny and Ernie

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Damn how many time u want him to move up 7 he already went up 5 and they still can't beat him u just want to see him FAIL a wise man once said

" Stop HATING On A Nig-uh That is a WEAK Emotion the LADY OF A Nig-uh"

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:21 PM

None of those guys are HOF material. How can you even mention Hatton as a HOF'er, who has he beat? Judah not that is really funny. Corrales (RIP) and Castillo are/were good, but not HOF'ers.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:24 PM

i said DLH is hall of fame candidate and that the other guys were simply in their prime read carefully then type

Rapcity

January 17th, 2008, 10:32 PM

Mayweather will be a first ballot 100% vote getting hall of famer.

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 10:37 PM

Hall of Fame....its hard to judge because greatness is not measured while you are still fighting.....its only when we look back and realize how great these fighters were....

Judah if he comes back and unifies once again, he could make a strong push....
Gatti the run he had, the wars he had you cant measure his heart and judge his losses because he never gave up until his body didnt let him go.
Castillo....one of the greatest Mexican fighters of all time.
Coralles....the only person to ever KO Castillo, Held or fought for a championship about 12 times.......

Floyd Mayweather Won his first world title in 1998....it is 2008 and he has yet to lose. Unification in one division is great, but Floyd is going for Unification of the Pound for Pound, unification for BOXING....going up to Middleweight to fight Kelly Pavlik is rediculous once again I cant begin to explain why....if they were the same size Floyd would teach him a lesson with his quick left hook. Floyd had a hard time getting to 150 to fight Oscar, he weighed in at 148 and they put down 150 on paper....he made weight because the class is 148-154 so it didnt matter.

Floyd is going to fight Cotto THEIR IS NO POINT IF NO ONE SEES IT....as much as you may love Cotto not everyone knows about him. Let Cotto grow up a little bit and Mature....but you know what when they do fight and Floyd KO's him because he has a week chin.....I bet you will be the first to say Cotto was overated and overmatched because thats just YOU. You cant take that greatness is happening before your eyes in a sport that rivals your own.....and in no way are they similar, UFC compares themselves to boxing, boxing does not compare themselves to UFC. That just shows how boxing is legendary, and UFC is stationary and will not surplant boxing as the greatest American Fight Sport.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:37 PM

no he won't because of HATERS! like vtcrb but we all know he SHOULD even u vtcrb

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:41 PM

Oscar not fighting at a HOF level when he fought Floyd. I think Floyd will make the HOF, I just don't think he is one of Greatest of All-time. Floyd just came into boxing when boxing was on the decline. He has beaten who has been put in front of him, I just think better opponents could be put in front of him.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:43 PM

vtcrb such as?

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 10:47 PM

VTCRB you are arguing everything banky argued.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:50 PM

Their are other organizations beside the UFC, IFL and Bo Dog to name a few. MMA does not having boxings legacy because it hasn't been around as long. In about 10 years MMA will have surpassed boxing. Boxing WAS great, I used to watch it all the time. I loved Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini. He lost his share of fights but always gave it his all. Boxing has been overtaken by promoters who control the sport. The Don King's have ruined the sport.

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 10:51 PM

I have already stated Cotto and Williams are 2 opponents in his weight class that he hasn't beaten. No need for him to fight Oscar and move up in weight since it so hard for him to do.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 10:54 PM

okay yea buddy sure what ever u say back to my original question such as???
inquiring minds would like to i really want to hear this 1:lol:

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 10:55 PM

Boxing is only on the "decline" to you UFC boys. Boxing "dying" is only a Myth created by the UFC to help promote their own sport. Their are great fighters right now.....

Manny Pacquiao
Floyd Mayweather
Oscar De La Hoya
Bernard Hopkins
Winky Wright
Joe Calzaghe
Ricky Hatton
Corey Spinks....probably one of the best pure boxers their is.
Jermain Taylor
Kelly Pavlik
Israel Vasquez
Juan Manuel Marquez
Chris John
Arthur Abraham
David Haye
Miguel Cotto
Roy Jones Jr
Felix Trinidad

I can go on forever.....

Up and Comers

Allen Green....Power huh?
Edison Miranda....you want to see power?
Jeff Lacy...
Librado Andrade
Julio Cesear Chavez Jr.....
Paul Williams...
Kermit Cintron
Joshua Clottey
Andre Berto
Zab Judah.......would be great but he has lost many recently but he is still 36-5 not 12-5-1...
Demetrius Hopkins....

Can I stop?

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 10:56 PM

MMA has been around for as long as anything else.....BOXING originated from no Holds fighting back in the 1800's....they have come and gone many times.

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 10:58 PM

MMA and boxing are 2 different sports.....football overtook soccar I guess....and basketball? and Baseball? and t-ball...MMA is 100% different than Boxing. Just because they are fight sports dont make them competitors because all the arguments will roll around in circles about we can use our legs and we can grab you....well we cant grab we cant use our legs....we have to knock you out even though you know whats coming.....you just cant stop me.

Sdot927

January 17th, 2008, 11:02 PM

Damn Jones

act like dr dre and put them on to GAME!

"TALK TO'EM"

vtcrb

January 17th, 2008, 11:16 PM

judging by your list of great fighters, we have a different definition of Great. Some were great in their prime but not anymore. Jones, Oscar, Trinidad, Hopkins and Trinidad were great but not anymore. Taylor was getting close but he seems to be derailed for now. Hatton never was. Your up and comers list is impressive, but who knows if they will pan out. Pacquiao is exciting to watch but not great. Don't have time to talk about some of you other "Great" fighters. Like I stated earlier we differ ob what "Great" means

Jones85

January 17th, 2008, 11:23 PM

Pacquiao is GREAT....how about beating the greatest mexican fighter twice? What about the other Greatest Mexican fighter Twice....What about Juan Manuel Marquez...draw was BS...but will beat him in March....

I dont understand your "great" logic is when your "great" fighters are 12-4-1........15-8.......and so on....I cant ......How can you judge a prime when you are not the boxer themselves? Ali hit his prime 3 or 4 times. Foreman? hit his prime you can say at 45?? Your arguments are elementry. These fighters still have much to accomplish, which is why they are still fighting....Sugar Ray Leanord Hit his prime several times? what is a PRIME? please explain......oh yea its when they go 15-8 huh? or 23-12? then they can hit the hall of fame? Pacquiao is not Technicaly sound but according to you thats not GREAT otherwise you would think Floyd is Great like he is? You contradict yourself every other post.

vtcrb

January 18th, 2008, 06:55 AM

You keep bringing up the MMA guys records. I have already told you they face tougher competition than boxers. MMA actually puts the top fighters against each other, rather than padding records for 10-15 fights with jobbers. I just don't see how you could even help train MMA fighter like you claim when you obviously think all of their fighters are suck. If boxing was structured more like MMA , with few weight classes and one one title in each division, but that will never happen.

"Prime" is when you are at the top of your profession, not because of a lack of talent but superior skill. Take football for example, Brett Favre has passed his prime but he still performs at a high level at times. His skills have diminished though. He is one of the game's top QB's, but if you look at the league the QB position is at an all time low. Their are some young guys who have potential but still have to prove themselves. Just like boxing you have guys with diiminished skills but are still near the top because of lack of talent in their division. Just because a fighter has an impressive record doesn't make him great, you have to look at if they have fought anyone. Hatton was a perfect example, his record was great but he really hadn't fought anyone. He had taken a bunch of punishment in previous fights, but yet you had him as a great fighter.

Sdot927

January 18th, 2008, 08:01 AM

what r u sped ed u just said to jones that boxers like williams have potential but who knows if they will pan out RIGHT so y in the world would PBF beating him of all people cement his legacy THINK 1st then TYPE again with cottto thing cotto is good but was not very impressive in his win over SUGAR and certainly not over ZAB he won but not the way he needs to prove he deserve a shot $$$ MAKER he has really to whip on or K.O a guy like ur precious williams or DHL Hatton or Clottey before i say he is ready for the ultimate test :D

Jones85

January 18th, 2008, 09:30 AM

So Tank Abbott fighting a hall of famer is not padding a record? Most everyone in your MMA is a bs fighter....look at your NEW superstar in KIMBO. BS Fighter, he chose MMA because he would never pan out in boxing......check his fights on the street. Boxing, rules no ground, none of that.....makes me think why MMA, because their is less talent meaning he could go farthur. And boxing doesnt allow many rematches like UFC, you get beat by KO you rarely get an immediate rematch....but here is their claim.....

"he got knocked the **** out in their previous two outings, but he is here once again to prove those two times were flukes. this is REVENGE" Weak.

Oh and Brett Favre is actually better now, than in his prime. If you dont know football, QB's dont throw interceptions or touchdown to QB's....they play against Defence. He now has one of the highest ratings of his career with less talent on his team....a bunch of young guys that barly know pro football....

Ricky Hatton, one of the great British Boxers.....and I must have wrote my post wrong didnt mean the fighters I mentiond as the BEST EVER. In my book it goes good, which the talent level is compared to UFC Legends, Great which are fighters like Mayweather, Coralles, Gatti etc. Legendary fighters like Tyson, Michael Spinks, Evander Holyfield, D. Tiger, Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Pernel Whitaker, Julio Chavez, Harry Greb, Carlos Manzon, Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, jack Dillon, Jake Lamotta, Ezzard Charles, Jack Dempsey, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Harry Wills, Emile Griffith, Wilfred Benitez.....you dont know much.

How about Harry Greb...one of the best Middleweights of all time how about 300 fights in his career? Your "prime" example was weak. Now adays defences are more athletic than in the past. Favre had basically the best year of his career. But he is not in his prime....to you a fighter never had a prime if he/she has a loss, but will never reach their prime if they never get a loss because supposedly they never took risks.....confusing huh? I am to

vtcrb

January 18th, 2008, 10:03 AM

You say that if a fighter has a loss in MMA he can't be a great fighter. Anderson Silva is one hell of a fighter, he has a couple losses but has learned fromthose losses and now a top notch fighter. Dan Henderson is an awesome fighter, maybe you didn't see his fight with Rampage. If you know anything about MMA, you know Fedor is awesome. Kimo is a publicity stunt. He will win a few against jobbers, but if he ever fights the big boys he will get his butt handed to him. What is your obesession with Tank Abbott, I have never mentioned him as a great fighter, he was just a pioneer of the sport ever hear of Jake Shields, fights for Elite XC, he is an up and comer who learned from a couple early set backs, but now is on the top of his game. MMA gives the young guys tough fights early in their careers and if they lose they have to fight their way back up. Boxing pads young fighters records in hope of getting them hype. Take Samuel Peters, built his record on jobbers and washed up fighters. James Toney is a hell of a fighter, but his time as come and gone, yet he is a Top heavyweight. Hell Peter is ranked 4th. Oscar is the top rated junior Middleweight yet he can't beat a welterweight. Boxing is in such great shape.

vtcrb

January 18th, 2008, 10:10 AM

For the record Brett Favre has stated this is the most talented team he has been on. As far as a bunch of guys who don't know football, teams like that always make it to the NFC championship game. I guess you don't need knowledge to play football though right. Stick to Boxing.

Jones85

January 18th, 2008, 10:18 AM

heavyweight is weak right now and Toney is not a top heavyweight....he actually has been suspended for year. Just because Oscar cant beat a welterweight means boxing sux? Oscars best fights were not at junior Middleweight. Oscar is a welterweight. Their are better fighters in other divisions, just because you are in a heavier division doesnt automatically make you better. Boxing doesnt PAD fighters records in order to get them exposur. They arent allowed to fight TOP fighters right off the bat because of the commission....Boxers die in the ring. You will NEVER see a guy 1-0 going for the CHAMPIONSHIP....for one its dangerous, for two what have they done that got them to that elite level? UFC can send anyfighter in their to get their *** handed to them good for them.

My obsession with Tank Abbott is you claim everyfighter in UFC is great by you saying they put them against tougher oposition. Tank Abbott HAHAHAAAA uh no....not tough competition at all.

vtcrb

January 18th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Who in MMA goes 1-0 and fights for the championship? Tank Abbot is one tough SOB, he doesn't have the technical training. I am sure you could just take him apart with all of the training you do. Abbot losses are because MMA fighters are more skilled than when he came into the business, he just didn't try to get any better himself. In MMA if you put together some impressive wins they put you up ranked contenders and if you beat them then you get a shot. What is an Elite level of boxing now? Most of the champs duck the young guys and defend against marginal guys. I mean how long do we have to watch Oscar lose before they realize he is done. Boxing holds alot of the younger guys back, not from fear they will get hurt but because they don't want them to beat their "MARQUEE" names. I mean they keep Mosely, Oscar, Vernon Forest and Judah in the title mix and what have they done that is more impressive than Cotto and Williams lately. yes they have had good careers but have really done nothing lately. In MMA fighters are rewarded on what they do in the present. Liddell wasn't thrown back i the title picture. Yes he is a big draw but right now not title shot worthy. MMa gives everyone a shot. Boxing you only get a shot if your promoters get along and the $$ is right and you can draw PPV buys, not on your performance.

Jones85

January 18th, 2008, 01:44 PM

I have as much respect for the young guns in the business as I do the fighters you named because they show promise....but you always raving about Cotto and Williams being the best and saying they have beat everyone. Your to lazy to read my past comments so I will break it down easily for you.

Cotto....
He beat Shane Mosley in a close fight.
He Beat Judah after several Low Blows when he was getting caught flush with uppercuts.
Oktay Urkal....
Carlos Quintana....
Paul Malignagi....good boxer but he is not top competition.
Ricardo Torress....If he was a finisher he would have ko'd Cotto...
Abdullev.....Olympic Gold but has done nothing in the pros.
Demarcus Corley.....Had Cotto out on his feet and decided to go to the body while Cotto could barly stand up right.

Thos are his current opponents.

Paul Williams......
Antonio Margarito....both looked less than stellar....throwing punches just to throw looks like a toughman competition to me.
Santos Pakau....thrown in their with 3 days notice I think against someone who was in training for 3 months....it shows TKO but If you watched the fight, he had no power.
Sharmba Mitchell.....he is like 586 years old now.
Walter Matthyess.....

They Both have very weak opponents as of late....and if you know Cottos career, after Torress Cotto stoped fighting Big punches for several fights.....

you keep proving my points by saying who goes for a Championship at 1-0?? Your Top Fighters are 15-8 or 12-4-1.....they dont have many fights and they still have tons of losses. UFC is filled with Great White Hopes and that is the only thing keeping them afloat.

Sdot927

January 18th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Damn vtcrb this the most compelling argument u have come up with b/c it is partly true it is tougher for young guys to shots but that is b/c it takes so long for people to get in the situation that they make the guys coming up really earn that tittle shot but it's people like $$$ MAKER who r giving people the fights they want to see just like the Judah fight he really did not have much tto gain in beating Zab but he did it B/c fight fans wanted to see how he would fair against some equal to him in speed

vtcrb

January 18th, 2008, 02:11 PM

Great White Hopes, now that is funny. I guess you color blind you, Rampage and Silva are Champions. What a racist statement. Maybe you need to watch the sport a little closer. Over 50% of the fighters are not WHITE. I guess next you gonna say only WHITE people watch MMA. And please quit referring to the UFC as the only MMA organization. You just keep watching your GREAT boxing and I will watch both. I am done with this since you had to go and bring race into the conversation.

TDEEZY58

January 18th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Who in the MMA goes 1-0 and fights for the championship?

Vtcrb, do you remember fighter by the name of David Terrell. He was trained by Caesar Gracie and fought out of No. Cal. He was 2-0 when he got his shot against Evan Tanner and he got destroyed. I haven't seen him fight since. What the UFC has failed to see is that in any type of fighting, experience trumps everything. That's boxers have to earn their stripes in the amateur system and further prove themselves as professionals. Look at what happened when to Houston Alexander when he fought someone that knew what they were doing, he got his lunch money taken.

Explain why Rampage constantly gets booed. He was booed after he beat Liddell and Henderson. Fans also didn't take too kindly to Silva beating Franklin both times. I'm not saying fans are racist but I do find it amazing how they have Jardin and Griffin ranked ahead of Raschad Evans even though he is undefeated. Evans beat Jardin, yet both of them get the high profile fights against Shogun and Liddell. Can you explain this?

Boxing already has an amateur system in place. Organizations like Elite XC, Bo Dog, IFL and others are all the minor leagues. The UFC is the standard. You can't use Pride because they were bought out. Explain why Nick Diaz was given a Elite XC title shot after he couldn't make it in the UFC? All of those other organizations are for guys that couldn't make it in the UFC. I don't think they help the sport. Boxing is criticized for its ABC belts i.e. WBA, WBO, IBF, WBC, but what do you think those lackluster MMA organizations are.

Jones85

January 18th, 2008, 08:14 PM

Didnt mean to make it sound racist but its a true fact....America is always looking for that great white hope dont think they arent....TDeezy hit it right on the head with his statement. Most great white hopes turn out to be the great white hype. Remember Joe Mesi? Rampage doesnt have nearly the options as Chuck Liddell and he is the Champ??

Luke2g

January 18th, 2008, 10:59 PM

TDEEZY, everybody knows that Dana white said him self, we will find out if Houston Alexander was all hype after his fight with Thiago, he had no ground game and he paid badly for it. Also, he beat jardine pretty much because Jardine under estimated Houston. Rampage never got boo'd after he defeated Henderson, he got boo'd after the Liddell fight purely because Liddell was the most popular fighter in the UFC at that point, pretty much the same thing with Rich Franklin and Silva, Franklin is a very popular fighter.

And to everyone else who says Mayweather would be competition for people in the UFC, I hope that is some kind of joke can you honestly see Mayweather standing a chance, no matter how much training he recieved against someone like GSP (Georges St. Pierre) or Matt Hughes for that matter. He wouldn't be able to defend them take downs and would get punished on the ground. People complain about how MMA is boring because it's just 2 men rolling around on the floor, that's because your ignorant to what's going on. If you don't like what you see, don't watch it.

I have nothing against Boxing, I've enjoyed boxing for years but I still find MMA more entertaining, Boxing is one dimensional and with MMA if you know what is actually going on, you find it a lot more interesting. He will never swap to MMA purely because he knows he would get demolished, and the pay cut he would have to take would be too major for him to risk his credibility and reputation. I think MMA is over taking Boxing, PPV sales prove this. I'm an all round fighting fan, but lets get real here guys.

Bring on Prizefighter!

TheDukeof74

January 18th, 2008, 11:06 PM

Cung Lee is Fighting Frank Shamrock on March 24, Lesnar is going to be fighting the winner of the Abbot/Butterbean fight after the Mir fight if he wins, While Tank is going to fight Butterbean.

TheDukeof74

January 18th, 2008, 11:07 PM

ButterBean mightbe somewhat of a joke in boxing, But he still knocks fools out, But in MMA he is more loved and always wins some big fights.

Sdot927

January 18th, 2008, 11:17 PM

luke u over looked 1 thing in order to get PBF on the ground which means ur in striking and mattg hughes nor GSP who let lil A $ $ matt tiny terror serra *** him up and none of those guys are the striker that $$$ MAKER is
CHECK MATE in 2

Luke2g

January 18th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Just because your in striking range of him, doesn't mean you will be knocked out before you get the take down or into a clinch, they could get close to him, clinch with him and then get a single leg take down while resting on the cage. You over looked something, GSP got caught by Serra, just watch how badly Serra gets beat down when they have their rematch. GSP was going through family troubles at the time, I think someone died in his family, I heard somewhere. In all honesty, I hope he does go into MMA and straight into the UFC and take someone with a good ground game, you shall see your precious Pretty boy go down like a sack of potatoes.

Sdot927

January 18th, 2008, 11:49 PM

1st off can't be taking my word (precious) 2nd if serra could catch him u think PBF couldn't plus what makes u think they could clinch him hatton ans corrales tried that and what happend to them resting on the cage PBF is in tremendous shape u ain't here the comment on youtube with the british announcers AND I QUOTE

"he must have some type of special technique to control his breathing maybe he does yoga or something"

Luke2g

January 18th, 2008, 11:55 PM

Ofcourse Hatton couldn't clinch him, the ref kept breaking them up every 5 seconds. And another thing, just because he got caught, he had a lot on his mind. Just because mayweather has super fast hands, doesn't mean he will catch GSP for e.g. GSP is a bad man with them high kicks, you think Mayweather is going to be able to handle GSP? He might be the best pound for pound boxer in the world, but MMA is a whole different level. Elbows, knees, kicks, do you think Mayweather would be able to take all of this in when GSP is flurrying on him with knees and elbows, I doubt it. Don't get it into your head just because Serra caught him, Mayweather would do the same. It's not like that, everybody has their day. If your telling me, mayweather would knock out GSP in an MMA bout, you are more of an idiot than I first thought.

Sdot927

January 18th, 2008, 11:59 PM

u say everybody has their day so when is Mayweather's ? last time i checked he was undefeated that means this many losses 0

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:01 AM

I thought i told u CHECK MATE in 2 guess what # we're on :D

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:03 AM

Yes, and what does that have to do with it. Well done to Mayweather, he's the best in the world at boxing. But has he ever fought with that weight on his mind like GSP did that day. This has nothing to do with being caught, this disagreement is about you saying Mayweather would make it in the UFC. And I'm telling you why he wouldn't. My opinion is, GSP is too good for Mayweather in MMA. Mayweather is use to one kind of fighting and that is stand up. GSP is a world class all rounded fighter. He can stand and bang, he can take you down and submit you. It's not like he hasn't fought people with great hands, Bj Penn is heavy heavy hands, and he took a lot of punches that night in tiny gloves, Boxing uses padded gloves compared to MMA. I don't think Mayweathers hand power or speed would worry GSP too much. He would just over power Mayweather on the ground and it's over.

TheDukeof74

January 19th, 2008, 12:05 AM

Fair enough, But boxers would have a better chance in MMA than a MMA fighter in boxing.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:07 AM

how do u so would GSP make it in boxing no what's ur point why do they bigger gloves so they don't kill any 1 a professional boxer punch is more lethal than a mma fighter man this S H I T is common sense

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:09 AM

And the logic to that is, Boxers train stand up. MMA fighters train ground game, boxing, subs, it's an endless list of the things MMA fighters train for. We saw what happened to Ray Mercer, I know he's way past it, but Kimbo trained some ground game and submitted him, very easily. I'm not saying it would be that easy for every MMA fighter to submit an ex boxer, but that's the kind of thing you would expect to happen if Mayweather tried it on with anyone good on the ground.

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:11 AM

Sdot, I'm not being funny here, but I can't understand what you just said. I shall try and read, then reply.

A boxers punch is more lethal then an MMA fighters, and that is why they wear bigger gloves? Is that a joke, please tell me your kidding.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:12 AM

and like i said already mayweather would K O any MMA fighter in aboxing so there that go

LUKE PLEASE push the on star button so i can find out where u going this

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:18 AM

and like i said already mayweather would K O any MMA fighter in aboxing so there that go

LUKE PLEASE push the on star button so i can find out where u going this

I agree with you on this, but I didn't see you type that anywhere in your previous comments. The point I'm making is, if Mayweather went to MMA (UFC, Bodog, K1) for e.g. He wouldn't find it as easy as he makes out. We all know he's a cocky fighter but I remember him being in an interview saying he would take over MMA, I find this real funny how people on here are too ignorant to realize that it just wont happen. He knows it, he might talk like he would, but deep down he knows he would never make it in MMA.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:21 AM

i wouldn't say never remember he would fight guys like penn and pulver i think he'd win easy especially against jens

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:23 AM

Trust me, if Bj Penn had the mentality to actually train for all of his fights, he would be unstoppable, he once fought at Heavyweight, you should of seen the size difference, and he hung on for the full 3 rounds. It's crazy. Penn is fighting tonight against Joe stevenson, should be a good fight if Penn is in shape. Jens is a good fighter mate, he just came off a real quick sub win over an undefeated fighter in WC. Good ground game. Just not up to the standards of the likes of Penn. Their first fight was a real good one though.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:28 AM

but penn can't bang with PBF and if ur the 1st MMA guy fight PB ur going to try at some point to prove u can and that's when ur gonna get KO'd

TheDukeof74

January 19th, 2008, 12:31 AM

Tru dat, I bet John Ruiz would knock out Liddell in a boxing match, I would bet the house on it. Notice also when Liddell called out Morrison, and Morrison quickly responded back and said he would whip chuck's ***, ANd you never heard Chuck whisper the Duke's name again.

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:33 AM

Now we are getting on this subject again, Bj Penn has a very good chin and is quick, I'm not saying he would stand and bang with Floyd Mayweather, but if he did he has a good chance of staying on his feet. I'm pretty sure if anyone fought Mayweather in an MMA bout, their game plan wouldn't be to stand and strike with him, because they all know that's what he does. If anyone went into an MMA fight with Floyd, and thought to themselves, lets stand and strike with him, they deserve to get knocked out. But by the time someone has gotten close to Floyd and gone for a double leg or single leg take down, it will be hard for him to sprawl and deal with the situation when he has little MMA experience.

TheDukeof74

January 19th, 2008, 12:35 AM

Luke don't get the idea that I'm like I'm disrespecting you, I love MMA. But MMA is not has popular has boxing right now. By the way did you ever see the UFC game coming out fot the 360 next year Check it out right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycGKg03Cgv4

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:39 AM

fam maybe some up and coming guy would do what u said but any top MMA guy is going to want and prove that their sport/fighters are superior and that means going toe to toe u c it all the time in both sports where guys don't stick to their usual M O to prove a point what u think MMA guys don't have pride are u serious?

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:40 AM

Lol, yes I did. It's my most anticipated game, along with GTA 4, Prizefighter and FNR4. Where do you get your logic from, that Boxing is more popular than MMA, says who? MMA has sold more PPVs than Boxing in recent events, also this weekend, well tonight. UFC re-aired their show for 9pm tonight in America, which is the same time as the boxing event on too.

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:42 AM

Sdot, you think an MMA fighter would pretty much throw away a big opportunity to beat Mayweather in an MMA fight, by standing with him because of pride? What has pride got to do with it, the fighter will be in there to win and win by using a suitable game play. Which in this case would be to take him down, and work for a sub or GNP. Although a win over Mayweather in MMA wouldn't really do much for credibility as he would be new to the sport.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:43 AM

fam that game trailer is highly racist and very fictitious show liddell whopping out rampage like that even though he got it handed to him both but there that go

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:44 AM

both fights

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:47 AM

Highly racist? I think I shall stop replying to you now. I've come to the conclusion that you are an idiot. Seriously, it's a video game trailer, they wanted to show you what both fighters do best, Rampage with his big slams and Liddell with his striking ability. The fact you consider it racist because it shows Liddell beating down on Rampage, although Rampage beat him in real life, twice. I can't get my head around that one. So what does that mean, when you get the game if you choose Liddell and fight Rampage, your not aloud to knock him out because it's racist? I'll tell you what is stupid, Calzaghe gets mouthed off by Hopkins saying he'll never be beaten by a white boy, oh no it isn't racism. But if Calzaghe said the exact same thing, people would be hating on him. Ridiculous.

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:48 AM

I don't understand why you have brought race into this. We were having a conversation about Mayweather coming to MMA which is what this topic is about, and all of sudden it's become a race issue. Keep it on topic.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:52 AM

no f***ing idiot it means u shouldn't show bull s h i t and not expect intelligent people to catch on to it

a wise man once said " ARE YOU ILLITERATE MAN YOU CAN'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES"

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 12:54 AM

as i previously said i just call'em like i see'em

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 12:54 AM

If your referring to yourself as intelligent, I should stop right there. And I didn't show anything, it was Duke who posted the link too the video. Enjoy replying to other people with your so called English. I'm going to watch some TV.

TheDukeof74

January 19th, 2008, 12:54 AM

no f***ing idiot it means u shouldn't show bull s h i t and not expect intelligent people to catch on to it

a wise man once said " ARE YOU ILLITERATE MAN YOU CAN'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES"
LOL I was just in one these the other day with another guy on here, Take it easy guys. Were here to chat and have fun.

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 01:01 AM

to duke i am referring to luke in the comment u high lighted and to luke i did not say u showed it i said it had racist s h i t so there that go

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 01:04 AM

now b/c i like 2 use abv dat makes me less intelligent okay wat eva u say

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 01:06 AM

i guess KFC n Mc D's r retarded to huh? at least i know a F A G when i see 1 DLH fan!

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 08:57 AM

Luke......PPV numbers for UFC is no where near Boxing.....The highest UFC PPV rating was Liddell vs Rampage which brought in only 750,000 buys after they projected to easily surpass 2,000,000 buys.....The arena wasnt completly sold out. Those two fighters are the biggest attraction today in UFC and Liddell is 38. Boxing, Mayweather Vs. Delahoya came in over 5,000,000 PPV buys a sold out arena and sold out 2nd arena with 5,000-10,000 seats so the PPV numbers just show DANA White's publicity stunt of always bashing on boxing is only hitting the UFC fans. Thats all. Boxing and MMA once again are 2 totally different sports....its like Futbol and Football. Boxing being "one" dimensional is an act of creating order to create more excitement....we are not allowed to clinch, hold, wrestle, elbow, kick or any of that....we have to be skilled enough to Knock you out....not submission moves which I think is a weak form of winning anyways. I didnt say it didnt take skill but it is weak and not fun to watch to me. You saying that UFC is more entertaining just shows me you dont understand the Sweet Science at all, and I love you guys always jumping to the conclusion all boxers will get stomped in UFC because they train to box. Its all talk on your part and UFC part Comparing the two the way you are is just a cry for help for the LIL UFC....they arent as mega as you think and have been around for a LONG time.....Dana bought the UFC and thats when you guys think it originated from. Boxing Originated from No Holds fighting back in the 1800's they switched to what we are now because the fans started catching on that it was dull.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM

Plus UFC is starting to Remind me of a beefed up WWF

Sdot927

January 19th, 2008, 11:00 AM

eye guy 1st off PBF on like pippen is still in his prime 1st and fore most 2nd he would be closer to AI thean scottie AI lil man with the 3rd hightest career scoring avg in the NBA sounds about right so there that go

Luke2g

January 19th, 2008, 01:33 PM

Jones, don't talk such lies. I saw it on TV that MMA had sold more PPV than Boxing and WWE, you don't back up your so called knowledge with any facts. If you want the interview where it clearly shows MMA selling more PPVs than boxing and WWE, reply and I shall give you the link. Also, another thing, Liddell/Rampage was not the biggest PPV rating, it was Liddell/Ortiz at UFC 66, which brought in 5.1million buys on PPV. Once again, I have proof on this if you want it. And who are you telling me when I have been a fan of MMA, I watched MMA fights way before Dana bought it. From when Gracie started it up.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 11:34 PM

Here are your UFC 66 numbers......the numbers you listed is the revanue smart guy.

http://mmajunkie.com/2007/01/30/report-ufc-66-falls-short-of-12-million-ppv-buys/

Tuesday, January 30, 2007 at 10:15 am
Report: UFC 66 Falls Short of 1.2 Million PPV “Buys”
Posted by MMA Junkie on January 30, 2007 at 10:15 am ET
UFC 66, which took place Dec. 30 and featured a much-anticipated main event of UFC light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell and former champ Tito Ortiz, did not garner the 1.2 million pay-per-view “buys” that the UFC and president Dana White had anticipated, according to a report from Wrestling Observer.

In the weeks leading up to the event, the UFC’s publicity drive was geared heavily around that 1.2 million number. But it does appear that the event, which culminated with a third-round TKO victory for Liddell, did earn more than one million buys, making it the biggest non-boxing pay-per-view event in North American history.

(Most of this information is limited to Wrestling Observer subscribers, so if you want more details about the event’s success, I’d suggest you become a subscriber. Dave Meltzer’s MMA coverage for the publication is top-notch.)

UFC 66 wasn’t just a success on pay-per-view, though. The event sold out the MGM Grand Arena in Las Vegas, Nev., with an attendance total of 14,607. The live gate ($5.4 million) was the highest in North American MMA history and topped the previous total by more than $2 million.

Although the event provided an amazing end to the 2006 UFC season, early indications are that March 3’s UFC 68 event could shatter the existing records — including total attendance and live gate — by an even wider margin.

Quite simply, 2007 is going to be a big, big year for the UFC, folks.

This entry is filed under Zuffa LLC, UFC 66, Dana White. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 11:39 PM

UFC cant survive off of rematches forever......hahaahaaaa........here he is after getting knocked out 5 times by the same person, he will try to go 15-8 to become the best UFC fighter of all time and make it to the hall of fame.

UFC sounds like they ARE WWE to me.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 11:40 PM

wow a non fan knows more than the fan who has been around MMA his WHOLE life. still dont know Jack S*it....Make sure you read the part carfully...........

the buys makes this the richist NON BOXING PPV EVENT in history.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 11:42 PM

For all the people who thinks they can Grapple any boxer.....what makes you think they can take a boxers punch????? The fight dont start on the ground.

Jones85

January 19th, 2008, 11:52 PM

Dana White is just UFC's version of Don King.....He is a crook and will be the rise and fall of UFC....UFC fighters all gloat over not making Sh*t for money saying they do it because they are either crazy or they love the sport.....They are just plain dumb. You know how much health insurence is? Life Insurence? How much Pain you go through, not in just preparation but after the event? How about if you take a fight and can never fight again afterwords and your not to smart to begin with?? Who will support you then? UFC kiss your rise goodbye because Boxing has made it through hundreds of years and hundreds of "DEAD" claims only when we look back is when we really appreciate the "ART" of boxing....and that Is what boxing is, and ART....UFC is a FAD....FADS DIE.....UFC or MMA style no holds type fighting has been around as long as boxing and has left many times since....they are back and ready to DIE again.

Sdot927

January 20th, 2008, 12:25 AM

DAMN JONES

TALK TO'EM

Luke2g

January 20th, 2008, 11:21 AM

Don't you get it, I said that because your that much of an idiot, you would believe me for a second. Anyway, surviving off of rematches, you do realize that their first fight sold pretty much the same amount of PPV sales? Another thing, you don't know more than me about Boxing, so don't start going on how you know more than me about MMA, because you don't.

Also, knocked out by the same person 5 times? Please enlighten me, to who you are going on about, if you mean Ken Shamrock it was 3 times and not by KO. Everybody knew what was going to happen in them 3 fights, they only went on with it because Shamrock needed a pay cheque. I mean he's fighting in Cage Rage next month. That's how desperate he is.

You say MMA organizations come and go, but the thing is they have never been as big as the UFC is now and haven't had this much money behind a company before, UFC is worth over a billion. It won't just disappear off the face of the earth because Boxing gets more PPV sales purely because it was the biggest fight in the history of boxing. It just won't happen.

Also, you say MMA fighters won't be able to take a Boxers punch, because the fight starts standing up. You obviously haven't heard of Muay-Thai, also if you have a wrestling back ground and facing a striker, especially someone like Mayweather or any boxer who has no ground background at all, you think your going to be able to knock them out when they are shooting for take downs, it isn't going to happen. I think for any boxer to come to MMA is a huge mistake, especially if you start off in the best organization in the world like UFC, there's a good chance your going to get destroyed by a B level fighter with decent ground game. And another thing, I can't wait for them to release the PPV sales of both last night events, Tito vs Jones and UFC 80. I can tell you this, UFC 80 has got a good chance to beat it. Especially since Tito vs. Jones was 2 fighters who are passed it. That's the thing I'm getting at here. Mayweather isn't going to stick around much longer, same with DeLaHoya. Which is pretty much what Boxing are relying on to keep at the top, I know your going to say there are big names coming up and that, but nobody is as big as Floyd, I can't see Boxing beating the PPV sales of the first DeLaHoya-Mayweather fight, never. And all UFC is doing is getting bigger names and increasing their PPV sales.

Sorry I took a while to reply, I was busy sleeping.