Defensive Int. frustration

[nyknicks33]

yeah it can be like that. Someone, Reed#20 I think, said that the INT's basically tend be of the Deion Sanders Highlight Reel variety..meaning they will make the spectacular, take it to the house INT, but will drop the routine pick when they have brokern perfectly on the ball..

[go_rams_1111]

I can play horribly on d, and get 2-4 picks a game. I can play great d and not get one pick, but hold the team under 17 points. So IMO this game is jacked up with the d/dbs.

[nepharius4]

I think if we got all the INTs that the DB's drop in this game then we'd end up with about an average of 6 to 7 ints a game, which in my eyes is pretty unrealistic. Drops are good, it happens, part of the game, gotta get over that.

I mean some should be obvious, but still there are many should be obvious ones that do get picked.

[Changeup]

Sometimes this game is just brutally unfair especially with the DB Int drops.
Playn this game yesterday against Mr. Stacked Defense with 2 golds and silvers in coverage, i'm playing great making perfect plays over woodson barny and lott all game.
And on the the other side i have my D in perfefect position 6-10 times during the game for a vollyball drill instead of a pick.
Still end up with a 9-6 win after stuffing Cunningham on another QB sneak on 4th and 5 at my 45 but man this game is just cruel sometimes when you play great D but never get the picks.

[SmallAlienGray]

Here's the deal. If your dropping INT's its your fault. Why? Because no one understands how to play a secondary player. I was reading the instruction book one night and noticed some weird stuff. Y button = Pass defend. LB = Block pass/tip ball. RB= Intercept

I used to think like alot of players that the Y buton and the RB where the same. There not. Y basically should always be the first button hit.....then your LB or RB buttons should be next depending on what your trying to do. The CPU will drop the INT but if you controll you own defender you will never.

[nyknicks33]

Here's the deal. If your dropping INT's its your fault. Why? Because no one understands how to play a secondary player. I was reading the instruction book one night and noticed some weird stuff. Y button = Pass defend. LB = Block pass/tip ball. RB= Intercept

I used to think like alot of players that the Y buton and the RB where the same. There not. Y basically should always be the first button hit.....then your LB or RB buttons should be next depending on what your trying to do. The CPU will drop the INT but if you controll you own defender you will never.


In my experience, you get some jacked up animations with that dang Y button. I go with RB all the time...Either a pick or a drop..I see far less weird contortions when I lrave the y button alone

[nepharius4]

i think youre exaggerating by saying NEVER, i have dropped WIDE open ints while facing the ball and hitting the RB just in time, but then there are those i catch taht i am facing the ball and just waiting, its a balance thing im glad we drop wide open passes this game would get boring with too many ints.

[Big M]

Oh yeah, good game.

[nepharius4]

I use RB all the time and get lots of manual interceptions with Derrick thomas in short outs, flats and screens.

[Big M]

I use R1 (same thing as RB) and I still get multiple drops a game.

[Disasterpiece]

Here's the deal. If your dropping INT's its your fault. Why? Because no one understands how to play a secondary player. I was reading the instruction book one night and noticed some weird stuff. Y button = Pass defend. LB = Block pass/tip ball. RB= Intercept

I used to think like alot of players that the Y buton and the RB where the same. There not. Y basically should always be the first button hit.....then your LB or RB buttons should be next depending on what your trying to do. The CPU will drop the INT but if you controll you own defender you will never.

No Y will knock it down. You don't hit Y and then RB.

[ballin5692]

I think if we got all the INTs that the DB's drop in this game then we'd end up with about an average of 6 to 7 ints a game, which in my eyes is pretty unrealistic. Drops are good, it happens, part of the game, gotta get over that.

I mean some should be obvious, but still there are many should be obvious ones that do get picked.

if your bad enough to throw the ball 6 or 7 times to the defense thats not my problem if theres 6-7 ints a game. some droped ints are just ridiculous. like the other team throws a slant and your guy is right there the ball hits him in the chest that would be caught by any defensive back in the nfl 9 out of 10 times in this game maybe 1 out of 10. and drops are part of the game i agree but no defesive back will drop 5, 6, or even 7 ints a game just because they are not wide recievers doesnt mean they cant catch the ball. in my opinion some defensive backs have better hands then recievers. they just play defense because there not scared to hit and have cover skills. trust me in the nfl if a defensive back gets 6 shots at an int he will catch atleast 5 of them. look at antonio cromartie he catches everything. literly every ball that hits his hands even if its one hand he catches it so i think this game is accualynrealistic with the droped ints.

[BoiseCowboys]

I use R1 (same thing as RB) and I still get multiple drops a game.

Same here, it gets frustrating sometimes when your in perfect position but some weird animation takes you out of position. But when your in position with a Gold/Silver, there should be more INTs.

And good game last night Big M... my psn is S-A-R-S if you remember.

[GoodSense]

I think if we got all the INTs that the DB's drop in this game then we'd end up with about an average of 6 to 7 ints a game, which in my eyes is pretty unrealistic. Drops are good, it happens, part of the game, gotta get over that.

I mean some should be obvious, but still there are many should be obvious ones that do get picked.

You are absolutely correct.
Running a very strict SIM policy against the LEGEND team proves the DB's at time are a little over the top with their coverage.

I had a generic covering a bronze WR (Branch) and knowing every route he ran.
I'll get worse coverage from star dbs.


Anyway...
Even some of the DBs who are Stars change direction and jump routes a little too well.
I've seen DB's turn their back and head up field and you can run a simple curl route and that same DB instantly changes direction because he is gold or silver and makes a play on the ball.

This is a major flaw that has been in the game since 2k5.
The difference is the INT's are not INSTANT.

Once they resolve this issue of changing direction then they can bring back better catching percentages.

This board gets filled daily on "skills" and ego massaging and game knowledge acknowledgements that obviously isn't true because anyone should realize the DB's and LB's still have instant change of direction when controlled by the ai and not the user.
So this removes some of that right to brag.
People wanting the INT's are looking for cheap turnovers and that are just as bad as the cheese whined about again, daily on this board.

So the real fix more realistic player movements whether ai/use controlled.
This includes acceleration/de-acceleration/speed and change of direction for various player ratings.

Great coverage DBs should not mean they defy logic.


Another issue with regard to INTs that I think should change is the instant tackling that takes place.
You get an INT off a receiver jumping for a pass and falling to the ground and he too should not defy logic and physics. I've seen them bounce right back up and make tackles. Mainly when playing offline, but still it should not be this way.

[ballin5692]

You see i read your paragraph and i understand what you're saying but you are too optimistic, on slants the ball is coming fast the wide reciever knows when its coming the CB doesn't know, and i've seen plenty of obvious interceptions dropped by DB's in the NFL, this game needs to just add an animation like when they drop an INT they put their head in the ground like the CB's in real life do, so then we can feel their pain and keep playing, look at it this way atleast the WR didn't catch the ball on you and your CB is playing good enough to be in position to swat the ball down.

on a side not maybe a cb is just too scared to get hit thats why he doesn't play wr.

i play d back on my high school football team as well as wide reciever. and if your defensive back is waiting there for the slant hes obviously in zone coverage. and in zone coverage you are always looking at the quarterback you dont pay attention to the recievers so a d back should know the balls coming from the second the ball leaves the qbs hands.

[nepharius4]

if your bad enough to throw the ball 6 or 7 times to the defense thats not my problem if theres 6-7 ints a game. some droped ints are just ridiculous. like the other team throws a slant and your guy is right there the ball hits him in the chest that would be caught by any defensive back in the nfl 9 out of 10 times in this game maybe 1 out of 10. and drops are part of the game i agree but no defesive back will drop 5, 6, or even 7 ints a game just because they are not wide recievers doesnt mean they cant catch the ball. in my opinion some defensive backs have better hands then recievers. they just play defense because there not scared to hit and have cover skills. trust me in the nfl if a defensive back gets 6 shots at an int he will catch atleast 5 of them. look at antonio cromartie he catches everything. literly every ball that hits his hands even if its one hand he catches it so i think this game is accualynrealistic with the droped ints.


You see i read your paragraph and i understand what you're saying but you are too optimistic, on slants the ball is coming fast the wide reciever knows when its coming the CB doesn't know, and i've seen plenty of obvious interceptions dropped by DB's in the NFL, this game needs to just add an animation like when they drop an INT they put their head in the ground like the CB's in real life do, so then we can feel their pain and keep playing, look at it this way atleast the WR didn't catch the ball on you and your CB is playing good enough to be in position to swat the ball down.

on a side not maybe a cb is just too scared to get hit thats why he doesn't play wr.

[GoodSense]

if your bad enough to throw the ball 6 or 7 times to the defense thats not my problem if theres 6-7 ints a game. some droped ints are just ridiculous. like the other team throws a slant and your guy is right there the ball hits him in the chest that would be caught by any defensive back in the nfl 9 out of 10 times in this game maybe 1 out of 10. and drops are part of the game i agree but no defesive back will drop 5, 6, or even 7 ints a game just because they are not wide recievers doesnt mean they cant catch the ball. in my opinion some defensive backs have better hands then recievers. they just play defense because there not scared to hit and have cover skills. trust me in the nfl if a defensive back gets 6 shots at an int he will catch atleast 5 of them. look at antonio cromartie he catches everything. literly every ball that hits his hands even if its one hand he catches it so i think this game is accualynrealistic with the droped ints.

Here is the element you need to keep in mind as well.
How many DBs get 6-7 opportunities to INT the ball like in this game?

The game has AI that isn't quite there yet to really simulate player movement.
Once that is improved on then yes the percentage should increase.

People will claim stick skills, but the reality is the AI puts out players in position most of the time. In many cases all you have to do is change over and that would make it too easy and cheap for INTs.

[wEEman33]

We have probably had this thread about ten times since the game came out.

Bottom line:

The INT logic in this game is totally bogus, and the developers made it this way to cater to the average idiot who blindly chucks it/forces it to their favorite receivers and money routes without even checking what the defense is doing.

What really makes the INT logic retarded is that players will more often make a ridiculous, athletic INT than they will intercept balls that are thrown right to them and hit them right in the hands/face or simply go right through their hands.

Sadly, all you can do to combat this is pick gold/silver players with the ball hawk/coverage bonuses, or, charge up your defender and go for the manual INT.

[Changeup]

I can handle the barely single tipped batted balls not being int. it's the one's that are batted straight up in the air off my defenders chest and then touched by half my defense o the way to the ground that drive me insane.
I realize I cannot have every pick but man when your in a close game like that and the other guy keeps drilling the ball right into your coverage over and over and you get nothing it is hard to deal with sometimes, just give me ONE of those picks and I would be happy, getting nothing after playing great D time and time again just wears on you after a while.

[GoodSense]

We have probably had this thread about ten times since the game came out.

Bottom line:

The INT logic in this game is totally bogus, and the developers made it this way to cater to the average idiot who blindly chucks it/forces it to their favorite receivers and money routes without even checking what the defense is doing.

What really makes the INT logic retarded is that players will more often make a ridiculous, athletic INT than they will intercept balls that are thrown right to them and hit them right in the hands/face or simply go right through their hands.

Sadly, all you can do to combat this is pick gold/silver players with the ball hawk/coverage bonuses, or, charge up your defender and go for the manual INT.

Run a few comeback routes when the DB turns up field with his back to you and I think you might pull this statement.

It is unrealistic for the DBs to turn on a dime like they do in many instances especially for them to make a plays on passes when their backs are turned during the throw.

Some people do play as you say, but the answer isn't to give 6-7 INTs per game based on poor game player AI control.
People are fooling themselves if they think 6-7 INTs per game is the result of playcalling or game knowledge. Many times they too run MONEY defensive plays that force the offense to "chuck" the ball. 2k5 was famous for this.

Anyone watching the playoff games this weekend saw DBs doing what many on here claim won't happen.

Once they fix this stop on the dime, eyes behind their back, DB coverage then we will all see more variety in the game. Money plays are stoppable. It just requires an adjustment to that particular player.
Most come in with the same game plan for each opponent and don't compensate for various situations.

Hopefully 2k9 will have worked on this.
Another thing to help with this is provide more focus than a check off.
Have your defense focus or a player focus on lets say outside routes and not just give him outside coverage. Or make it capable to turn a zone coverage into a sideline zone coverage, which of course would be suspect to inside or inside curl routes.

[GoodSense]

I can handle the barely single tipped batted balls not being int. it's the one's that are batted straight up in the air off my defenders chest and then touched by half my defense o the way to the ground that drive me insane.
I realize I cannot have every pick but man when your in a close game like that and the other guy keeps drilling the ball right into your coverage over and over and you get nothing it is hard to deal with sometimes, just give me ONE of those picks and I would be happy, getting nothing after playing great D time and time again just wears on you after a while.

And that is another problem.
The ball doesn't bounce right either.
That needs to be more realistic as well.

I've seen the ball hang on the necks of people it bounces on bounce too high on each sequential bounce, etc...

[Reed#20]

Here is the element you need to keep in mind as well.
How many DBs get 6-7 opportunities to INT the ball like in this game?

The game has AI that isn't quite there yet to really simulate player movement.
Once that is improved on then yes the percentage should increase.

People will claim stick skills, but the reality is the AI puts out players in position most of the time. In many cases all you have to do is change over and that would make it too easy and cheap for INTs.


But I think this is the entire reason why it should be intercepted. This game is not like Madden. In Madden interceptions happen because the defenders are unrealistic in what they do, so EA has them cheat. In this game the interceptions that SHOULD happen would be the ones the users throw. And there is a solution to that. Work on your passing game and get better reading and stop forcing passes. See in Madden you can work all you want and you can throw to open guys and the ball will still get intercepted. But in this game if you work at it you can find the right guys and have a very high completion percentage. But if you do not work at it and just start acting like a kid, which is exactly how alot of people play then they force into coverage and that should get picked. If they do not want it picked then stop making stupid mistakes.

[GoodSense]

But I think this is the entire reason why it should be intercepted. This game is not like Madden. In Madden interceptions happen because the defenders are unrealistic in what they do, so EA has them cheat. In this game the interceptions that SHOULD happen would be the ones the users throw. And there is a solution to that. Work on your passing game and get better reading and stop forcing passes. See in Madden you can work all you want and you can throw to open guys and the ball will still get intercepted. But in this game if you work at it you can find the right guys and have a very high completion percentage. But if you do not work at it and just start acting like a kid, which is exactly how alot of people play then they force into coverage and that should get picked. If they do not want it picked then stop making stupid mistakes.

Again, go in practice mode or I can post a video of it if you like.
I test this game by playing against LEGENDS where Woodson is the DB.

I'll run a curl route with a silver receiver.
As soon as Woodson head turns up field the receiver is about to turn.
You fire it in there and Woodson with his BACK TURNED to the throw and HEADING up field will stop on the dime... I'm talking INSTANTLY and unrealistic. It is like he suddenly snaps back the other way and makes a play on the ball.


Again... that is NOT realistic and creates too many CHEAP INT possibilities.
I'm all for bringing up the percentage of INT catches. I'm all for that.
But if the DBs continue to make unrealistic plays with their backs to the ball and stuff then we will be stuck with the same old patterns and it has nothing... nothing to do with how good a player is or how well he executes.

I got tired of seeing exaggerated stats of people with 6-7 ints per game.
How many ints per game are the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Chargers averaging per game?
I think when you answer that question you will realize the numbers in this game is fine.

You can't up the percentage without adjusting the realism of coverage.
People keep on blaming their opponents play and sometimes it is true, but in many cases players are bragging based on a fault in the game thinking it is their overwhelming game play and it isn't.

The low percentage is there to compensate for faulting programming in unrealistic DB movement and coverage. Fix both or don't fix it at all if you ask me.

As for EA and Madden yes they get ints because of unrealism, but the reality is the only difference is it has a higher catch percentage.

[Reed#20]

Again, go in practice mode or I can post a video of it if you like.
I test this game by playing against LEGENDS where Woodson is the DB.

I'll run a curl route with a silver receiver.
As soon as Woodson head turns up field the receiver is about to turn.
You fire it in there and Woodson with his BACK TURNED to the throw and HEADING up field will stop on the dime... I'm talking INSTANTLY and unrealistic. It is like he suddenly snaps back the other way and makes a play on the ball.


Again... that is NOT realistic and creates too many CHEAP INT possibilities.
I'm all for bringing up the percentage of INT catches. I'm all for that.
But if the DBs continue to make unrealistic plays with their backs to the ball and stuff then we will be stuck with the same old patterns and it has nothing... nothing to do with how good a player is or how well he executes.

I got tired of seeing exaggerated stats of people with 6-7 ints per game.
How many ints per game are the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Chargers averaging per game?
I think when you answer that question you will realize the numbers in this game is fine.

You can't up the percentage without adjusting the realism of coverage.
People keep on blaming their opponents play and sometimes it is true, but in many cases players are bragging based on a fault in the game thinking it is their overwhelming game play and it isn't.

The low percentage is there to compensate for faulting programming in unrealistic DB movement and coverage. Fix both or don't fix it at all if you ask me.

As for EA and Madden yes they get ints because of unrealism, but the reality is the only difference is it has a higher catch percentage.

The bottom line is if you throw an interception then that's realistic. Or I can say it this way, if you throw to a DB then he should intercept it. Now I agree with you on the curl routes. 2k's DB's are psychic on that route, however if you do the Deep Curl against man you will get it every time. Run Doubles 50 Deep Curl and watch the DB get shook every single time. They did it on purpose on the shorter curl routes because the curl routes were money in 2k4 and 2k5 so now they pull an EA move and make the DB's cheat on that route. But as hard as it is to throw curl routes it is too easy to throw fades, quick corners, Arrows, outs, quick streaks, post, and post corners, curl and go.

The problem is we all want it to be realistic but it is not going to be, so they make some sacrifices and side on one or the other. They could just make everything realistic and people will complain because they "can't" do X. They could make it where when you hike the ball you can only see a certain part of the field, just like a real QB would to mimic real QB play, but how many people would be complaining because they can't see the blind side and they don't know who is open.

They could make it where QB's are not as accurate in general, then people will be complaining about that. One thing I know for sure, people will always find ways to move the football in video football games. Always. That's why the should make you work for what you get on offense instead of letting it be way too easy.

You ask how many INT's the Pats, Pack ect are averaging. I ask how many INT opportunities are other teams giving.

[JHova1982]

well reed and everybody else still complaining about these lack of INT. in a video game world of football out of 20 people how many would u honestly say is going to throw the ball away; whether out of bounds or near the reciever?

i will tell u the answer, either 1 or 2 people is going to do that. in real life thats how QB get there miss completions as well as dropped balls, overthrowing and underthrowing receivers. in all pro i never seen anyone throw the ball away of all i played and in madden only one person has done it.

2k sports has some pretty smart developers, they knew that no one is going to throw the ball away in a football game, they probably dont even throw it away when they play. so in order to keep the turnovers to a realistic level u have to keep the DB/LB catch percentage low. the INT is not broken, or need to be fix cause there will never be a middle ground. either they turn it up and have picks out there like madden or keep it low and make people play real defense(and thats to stop the drive, not to get a turnover).

[wEEman33]

Keeping the catch percentage low is stupid because it doesn't penalize poor passing decisions, and when people don't get penalized for making dumb throws, they settle into bad habits, like forcing it to their favorite WR/routes.

The best way to make people break those habits is to MAKE them take better care of the ball and start making better decisions by PUNISHING them when they make bad decisions.

Reason being, people will STOP forcing the ball into coverage when they realize that there are CONSEQUENCES for doing so.

[GoodSense]

Keeping the catch percentage low is stupid because it doesn't penalize poor passing decisions, and when people don't get penalized for making dumb throws, they settle into bad habits, like forcing it to their favorite WR/routes.

The best way to make people break those habits is to MAKE them take better care of the ball and start making better decisions by PUNISHING them when they make bad decisions.

Reason being, people will STOP forcing the ball into coverage when they realize that there are CONSEQUENCES for doing so.

True, but it was the only thing they could do.
Because in reality most of the INT's players would get have nothing to do with stupid or poor passing decisions. It is based on poor programming of the physics behind players movement.

The true fix is programming player movement.

If you don't fix this then nothing will matter.
But I'll take lower percentage INT catches over 6-7 avg per game.
Again, because that is not based on good defense or poor offense.


I've seen some defenders make plays on passes that are just crazy.
Stopping on a dime and changing direction to not only catch up on the path of a receiver already running full speed, but to jump the routes as well.

I'm all for punishment for bad decisions, but those 6-7 avg ints before because of poor programming has a lot of people actually thinking THEY are making these great defensive plays, playcalling, etc... So there are two sides to this story.

I do not expect the game to be perfect, because that will never happen.
But you guys need to realize that those INTs ya'll got use to getting had less to do with poor decisions and more to do with poor programming.

[wEEman33]

I agree that gold and silver defenders with the coverage/ball hawk bonuses too often make impossible "eyes in the back of their heads" reads, and ridiculous, Antonio Cromartie-esque grabs.

BUT

2K's "cheating" is not nearly as bad as Madden's,

AND

Those plays tend to happen only once or twice a game, and can only be done by a handful (4-5) of legends. Compare that to Madden, where just about every defender on the field is superman, and we have a much more tolerable situation.

Additionally, as someone who takes good care of the ball and mostly makes smart decisions when passing, what discourages me far more than seeing the occasional "superhuman" INT is seeing TONS of gimme INTs getting dropped/bouncing off a defender's brick hands/hitting a defender smack-dab in the face/going right through the defender's hands/etc.

In other words, I think it is much less offensive to have the occasional superhuman play by a great player than to see decent/good players dropping INTs that most college players would catch.

[Reed#20]

I just finished a game with a buddy just joking around and I never looked up the field to read coverages. I just hiked the ball and threw it. Needless to say I only threw 2 INT's the entire game and had 238 passing yards and went 19/33, 3 TD's. He did the same thing, threw 2 INT's and 4 TD's. There were some plays where WR's should have gotten killed but the animation favors the WR so he drags a Safety coming at him full speed and from his blind side. The WR was almost in Reggie Wayne's position and the Safety was about in Marlone MaCree's position. Lott comes in full speed. Rice has his head turned away from his front side. Rice catches it and drags Lott for 6 yards. Talk about GHEY :(

[Azn_Essence]

this thread has been made
responses will vary
1. DBs are morons , they drop easy INTs
2. "NO THEY'RE NOT YOu"RE WRONG U DONT KNOW WHAT YOU"RE DOING"
3. "THEY ACT LIKE MORONS BECAUSE IT PRODUCES SIM STATS AND THATS ALL THAT MATTERS"

[Changeup]

I just had one last night in an offline game that was tipped straight in the air by Ditka and then vollyballed by both E. Robinson and L. Barney on the way to the ground, drives me crazy.