for ronnie and mods

[themenace47]

well, i saw the thread asking for ideas and feedback and i just want to say that as a lifetime madden player im not gonna just forget it completely...

HOWEVER

id still buy 2k9 at launch if the gameplay was better than 2k8

1. user control on the field is top priority and that means defense too

2. keep the legends/created teams format that makes the game fun and unique but adds hours of replay value above and beyond the football itself

3. make the controls mimick "your competitor" as much as possible since 99% of gamers that are also football lovers are usually at least casual players of the "other" game.

offer new strengths where madden comes up short

patches for gameplay, total control over rosters, subs, plays and playbooks

overall 2k8 was dissapointing because i play on ps3 and the motion sensor ruined online play completely as evidenced by the very low population in the servers. besides that i also found the playbooks and defensive controls to be nightmare-ish

the qb control felt sluggish and weird as well

in closing i want to give this 1 thought:

its not about beating EA out of the market in 1 hurried attempt, its about putting out a great game that improves year after after year. after all, most of us have room by our tvs for 2 games.

call of duty 4 blew halo away and nobody expected that 3 years ago.

[Numbski]

Just to address some of your points:

3. make the controls mimick "your competitor" as much as possible since 99% of gamers that are also football lovers are usually at least casual players of the "other" game.

Won't happen - for a myriad of reasons. The control layout for 2K is unqiue, and very efficient. Have you tried the alternate control layouts?

the qb control felt sluggish and weird as well

Which QB were you using? Also - you can't just run in a direction and then let go a bomb downfield. That's by design, not a flaw. It will feel sluggish if you try to play it like Madden. You have to take your drop, make your reads, and then throw with both feet planted, unless you have a QB with Scrambler, and even then it will hurt your accuracy to be on the run a bit.

[ritter rott]

I agree with Numbski.. the its the gameplay (like setting your feet before you throw) that makes this game to great to me. Where I believe it comes up short is customization.

[anESPNfan]

Thanks we'll be sure to pass this on. Couple things though as mentioned - personally for me the QB controls did not feel sluggish, they felt realistic. However I do wish the defensive controls were slightly more precise, IMO that was the only downfall of the game, but it was still fun once you got used to it.

[themenace47]

well i have gotten irritated with guys on this site and gotten into defending madden but i was really wanting to see a 2k9 too, and the decision to not put it out is weird because there is defenitely a huge opportunity since '08 madden for NG was such a huge dissapointment, especially on ps3.

you guys have a point that with the controls it's a longshot, but i know for a first hand fact that i couldnt get my friends or kids to even try... and one of my friends loves football so much he actually flew into pittsburgh just to walk around heinz field but he gave apf2k8 all of about 2 minutes and demanded i put ncaa 08 back in...

keep in mind that outside of online disconnects the most universal complaint about madden was the new control method.

as far as the qb action goes...

even a mediocre qb doesnt have to set his feet on every throw... im also talking about ability to move quickly around the pocket and evade blitzers and quickly throw. guys like elway & farve did not need to do more than flick the wrist and even though they werent really great runners they werent sitting ducks either. basically in 2k8 it seems like there is often a delay and the delay manifests itself in the form of spinning and jumping... the fact that the qb requires a spin and isnt automatically facing up the field and watching his targets is more of a problem with the game than with my timing imho.

qbs ducking whenever the controller moves was not founded in reality at all and needs dropped altogether.

those are just my opinions but the decision to take the ball and go home is a big let-down... i for one think the oppurtunity for a succesful 2k9 is defenitely out there. and unlike everyone else here i still think madden is a great game... not so much for NG but '08 for ps2 is awesome. as we speak, all the die hard madden guys i know are anxiously awaiting backbreaker and 2k football games

my bottom line:

1. no sixaxis motion sensor
2. increased control of selected defender
3. create a play

and i would have played 2k8 a lot more

add the ability to name scrubs, and it could have been a big hit but the created team format was sweet... i defenitely want to see that in future versions

i love the nfl as much as the next video game guy but the funnest game is going to be in my ps3...

fyi i just bought NG madden on ebay... til now i mostly played ps2 madden. and i probably will go back to it til something better makes me switch since ALL of the this years NG football efforts were so dissapointing.

[Numbski]

I was serious about the alternate control layouts - I thought those were there to make them fall more in line with Madden. Am I mistaken?

[Valdarez]

I was serious about the alternate control layouts - I thought those were there to make them fall more in line with Madden. Am I mistaken?I put in NCAA a couple of weeks ago to get the achievements and I didn't really notice much of a difference on the control scheme. All of the controls are configurable though, so if someone wants it to be like Madden (ick) they can make it that way. I don't think that should be the default though. I prefer APF2K8s layout from the controls to the the play calling.

What does 'increased control of selected defender' mean? If it means move like they do in Madden, that's an arcadish way for a player to move. There's no real momentum, footwork, or change of direction. APF2K8 players move like real players should move (except for the QB who needs a little work). Maybe they could add an arcade mode where the momentum is turned off so guys can have the immediate move in any direction play like Madden.

[totalownership]

I'm with you guys. That's what makes this a thinking man's game. You shouldn't be able to just cut on dimes with the defenders. Those guys should commit one way or the other and according to what their assignments are. The only thing this game needs improving on is a little marginalization between the scrub and legend players. Not much but just some. The scrubs are just too scrubby and the Golds are one letter off from what they really are GOLDS

[Numbski]

There are some serious coverage quirks in there too. We've all seen it too - the man splitting triple coverage, the ball going through arms, and even through chests to reach their target, the magic teleporting football (ie, you are about to deflect or INT a pass, and the ball teleports sideways or otherwise unrealistically circumnavigates the coverage), the LONG delay before a defender follows on a fade route, the fact that safeties WON'T follow the deep man in deep zone coverage unless manually assigned, I can just go on, and on, and on.

It needs work, I won't sit here and pretend otherwise. You can work around the flaws, but don't pretend they aren't there. :P

I still stick to my guns though - the QB's in this game are already plenty mobile when used properly. To the uninitiated, someone using Randall Cunningham can light you up every single time you pick man coverage. Let us not forget the Gold QB's either, especially Steve Young. :P You can build a running game around your QB, but your playbook would be rather limited. ;)

Point is - there's no need to mimick Madden. I can see the point about having an alternate "Madden Control" schema - makes sense enough, but I wouldn't encourage uber-mobility by QB's. If you want that kind of mobility, hold don't the R-trigger to pull the ball down behind the line, and now you're a ball-carrier, not a QB. You lose the option to throw, but you'll maneuver better (which is your complaint, right?).

[themenace47]

APF2K8 players move like real players should move

no they dont...

and as usual its not a "vs madden" issue since ive never and ive never seen any other defender just stick his arm out in a rigid straight line and get stuck running straight before like happens on 2k plus there's something weird that happens on an interception when the action slows down or stops completely and the overall responsiveness of the defender is low and the speed is off too...

so i guess you're right in the sense that if i had to choose between the 2 defensive games id go with madden... it's just much more "real" and 2k is more "arcade"

and besides i play safety and i dont need some video game guys to analyze my words and then say "oh you just dont know how to move realistically" its ridiculous...

id say 1 other main reason why i just got turned off to 2k games in general is because of the cornball stuff like that right there... it just seems like people here have lost touch with reality altogether. the answer to everything is that EA is bad, anyone who didnt like apf2k8 is just brainwashed by madden, that 2k8 was perfect and nobody but the 6 people in the lobby can realize it because were all too stupid to distinguish a good football game...

neither is sim at all... why you ask? because of the time clock... and in pro football you have 3 & outs and punts galore, fields that get so wet the ball doesnt bounce and you cant hardly run... wind, blown coverages, cheating, soreness, momentary fatigue and at any moment guys just trip and fall down etc... there's lots of things that happen in football that could ruin a video game that squeezes 60 minutes into 20... i mean you can already drain the entire half in 7 plays or something if you really try...

so if you really wanna talk about "arcade" lets start with the obvious things like random goalline dives

ducking, spinning, leaping whirly twirly qbs who consistently hit 45 yard corner routes in stride...

dbs who wont/cant cover certain routes regardless of the play call.

maybe apf2k8 was better on 360 too because i notice most of the guys who dont relate to my feelings at all about this game play on 360 and never experienced the sixaxis issues either.

but if you guys hate EA enough to heap blind praise on any other random game then maybe just stop replying to my threads because im trying to talk sense here and the point blank truth is this...

2k8 wasnt ready to be released last july (at least for ps3)...

some of us dont feel any wackjob/stalker style butt-hurt feelings towards a video game corporation...

this *** attitude rubbed off and corporate 2k is unwilling to even release another game because EA games still sell more and its viewed as some "all or nothing" sales competition when the focus should have been putting out games and making fans happy well making improvements year after year and creating a legitimate attempt to compete...

if EA had pulled a 2k and released some almost-done game the day before launch of another title just to make a quick buck and then refused to put out updates, or even a new title since they werent immediately the market leader you'd be calling them out on it with a million posts a minute so be honest about the fact that maybe there isnt that much praise that needs to be heaped on the 2k football dept. right now.

and finally, if 2 good games come out, im buying them both... if your too dense, too proud or too "arcade" to do that... cool w/ me but maybe try to stop lying about madden all the time it just makes you lose credibility since most of us have played both games.

[themenace47]

Maybe they could add an arcade mode where the momentum is turned off so guys can have the immediate move in any direction play like Madden.

umm your not describing madden... your talking tecmo bowl here

at least be honest because i can assure you there is momentum in madden, you cant just sprint one way and immediately sprint the other without some slow down... its just not always slow, dramatic and totally arcade style like 2k...

so please just stick to the truth because no matter how much you lie about madden... 2k8 isnt gonna get any better and 2k9 might be just as bad... assuming it even happens at all now.

[Big M]

id go with madden... it's just much more "real" and 2k is more "arcade"

Uh-huh. So, in real life, any quarterback can run back twenty yards, then, off their back foot, lob it 60 yards to a receiver that is jumping three times higher than the average human being? I'll admit that neither game is perfect, and I'm not a 2K fanboy or anything, but it's more realistic.
and besides i play safety and i dont need some video game guys to analyze my words and then say "oh you just dont know how to move realistically" its ridiculous...
And, when you play safety, can you change directions at anytime, in any direction to stop a run, or swoop in from 15-20 yards away to make a Superman pick?
neither is sim at all...
True, neither is an exact representation of football as it is on Sundays, but this game is closer than Madden is.
so if you really wanna talk about "arcade" lets start with the obvious things like random goalline dives

ducking, spinning, leaping whirly twirly qbs who consistently hit 45 yard corner routes in stride...

dbs who wont/cant cover certain routes regardless of the play call.

Okay, let's start with other obvious things, like quarterbacks dropping back twenty yards, then throwing it another sixty.

Or runningbacks and defensive backs changing directions with a flick of a stick, going from running left to running right in a half-second.

Or receivers jumping six feet in the air to catch a ball thrown way too high.
maybe apf2k8 was better on 360 too because i notice most of the guys who dont relate to my feelings at all about this game play on 360 and never experienced the sixaxis issues either.

As you can see by my signature, I'm on PS3. All you have to do to avoid diving is not shaking the controller around. It's not difficult. Sure, it'll happen every once in a while, but it's not that big of a deal.
2k8 wasnt ready to be released last july (at least for ps3)...
True, I think we can all agree that the game should've been worked on longer. I don't think anyone is saying the game is perfect.
some of us dont feel any wackjob/stalker style butt-hurt feelings towards a video game corporation...

That's is absolutely uncalled for. You come here trying to get our help and advice, and you pull this crap?
EA games still sell more
Because EA practically has a monopoly on the Sports gaming genre. It's simply buying out the competition, and all the companies involved in all the sports.
if 2 good games come out, im buying them both
As am I. Like I said, I'm not a fanboy. I'll play the best game out. Right now, it's 2K8.


Wow. Long post.

[Valdarez]

and as usual its not a "vs madden"Really?

so i guess you're right in the sense that if i had to choose between the 2 defensive games id go with madden... it's just much more "real" and 2k is more "arcade"Good thing it's not a vs. Madden thing. ;)

and besides i play safety and i dont need some video game guys to analyze my words and then say "oh you just dont know how to move realistically" its ridiculous... Who said anything about you?

id say 1 other main reason why i just got turned off to 2k games in general is because of the cornball stuff like that right there... it just seems like people here have lost touch with reality altogether. the answer to everything is that EA is bad, anyone who didnt like apf2k8 is just brainwashed by madden, that 2k8 was perfect and nobody but the 6 people in the lobby can realize it because were all too stupid to distinguish a good football game...You obviously haven't read this forum all that much...

but if you guys hate EA enough to heap blind praise on any other random game then maybe just stop replying to my threads because im trying to talk sense here and the point blank truth is this...Darn those random praise heaping games.

if EA had pulled a 2k and released some almost-done game the day before launch of another title just to make a quick buck and then refused to put out updates, or even a new title since they werent immediately the market leader you'd be calling them out on it with a million posts a minute so be honest about the fact that maybe there isnt that much praise that needs to be heaped on the 2k football dept. right now.<begin sarcasm>
You're right, EA would never put out a sub par game in order to make a quick buck.
<end sarcasm>

and finally, if 2 good games come out, im buying them both... if your too dense, too proud or too "arcade" to do that... cool w/ me but maybe try to stop lying about madden all the time it just makes you lose credibility since most of us have played both games.Completely agree. If there's ever a good Madden game, people should buy it. Until that day comes, there's always ESPN NFL 2K5 and APF2K8. ;)

[kcxiv]

haha, Go Valadrez. That was some pretty good ownage right there.

No sports games are perfect. Especially football, but 2k's games are closer then any other game to date. The only reason why APF doesnt appeal to the common Football gamer is that it has NO NFL teams. I mean, they could have done far more then what they did, but they didnt. THey told you from the very beginning. I didnt ever expect them to put out alot of games. This game was a complete football experience on the field though.

[themenace47]

big m...

i came to give advice...

btw, can you post a link to the 20 yard drop back and 60 yard bomb in madden... in a ranked game cause im calling you out... liar

[Big M]

You really think I still have Madden? I said alot of crap about it, and you think I still own the game? I sold that to GameStop once I started playing 2K8. When I played Madden, you could drop back twenty yards and throw it another sixty. That may have changed within the past few months, but it was that was that way when I played.

[themenace47]

so can you find a link to video evidence or should i just post the 2k 20 yard drop and 90 yard bomb from randal cunninham AGAIN...

from this point video talks and BS walks...

lets play "post it" ill start...

here's a deep drop back and chuck PLUS a db retard video...

@ 38 seconds into the clip you can see some 2k free safety action... lol and you call madden arcade

check it out at 1:05... the drop and chuck you just said isnt in this game
click here (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3786872027263635630&q=apf+2k8&ei=r9IfSNuoOaSQqwP4hKjIAQ)

[Big M]

Okay. You want proof of some messed up Madden? Here ya go:

Here's an extremely messed up tackle that would never happen... Unless you're playing Madden! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pAXZoFwPEh8&feature=related)

And what is this? A glitch in the game? Nah, it couldn't be. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=88A6KANaK88&feature=related)

This one has crappy resolution, but you can easily see Ben Roethlisberger (or whoever else is playing QB for the Steelers) outrun a blitzer or D-linemen to the corner of the endzone, then launch a pass- on the run- to a wideout who catches it even though the defensive back had an easy play on the ball. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1-qx2-b_9hE&feature=related)

What is up on this play? Guess it's just a normal thing on Madden. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=zdZ1nwb5baI&feature=related)

Now what is wrong with Brett? Is he just jogging in place? And why is the defense just letting him glide across the field like that, instead of sacking him? Can you say GLITCH? (http://youtube.com/watch?v=e8WqJwkl1Z0&feature=related)

Uh huh... (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CzGP6nJtf3k&feature=related)

Wow. This is how Madden treats the Super Bowl MVP. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l58u6n_ZOOc&NR=1)

Field goals aren't supposed to go that far. But, then again, this is Madden we're talking about. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2BkEgGKjAo&feature=related)

Listen to the man explaining this video. He says the route will be open everytime. Sounds sorta glitchy to me. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=200E_wrtxak&NR=1)

Everyone of those is click-able.

[Poveglia]

no they dont...

and as usual its not a "vs madden" issue since ive never and ive never seen any other defender just stick his arm out in a rigid straight line and get stuck running straight before like happens on 2k plus there's something weird that happens on an interception when the action slows down or stops completely and the overall responsiveness of the defender is low and the speed is off too...

so i guess you're right in the sense that if i had to choose between the 2 defensive games id go with madden... it's just much more "real" and 2k is more "arcade"

and besides i play safety and i dont need some video game guys to analyze my words and then say "oh you just dont know how to move realistically" its ridiculous...

id say 1 other main reason why i just got turned off to 2k games in general is because of the cornball stuff like that right there... it just seems like people here have lost touch with reality altogether. the answer to everything is that EA is bad, anyone who didnt like apf2k8 is just brainwashed by madden, that 2k8 was perfect and nobody but the 6 people in the lobby can realize it because were all too stupid to distinguish a good football game...

neither is sim at all... why you ask? because of the time clock... and in pro football you have 3 & outs and punts galore, fields that get so wet the ball doesnt bounce and you cant hardly run... wind, blown coverages, cheating, soreness, momentary fatigue and at any moment guys just trip and fall down etc... there's lots of things that happen in football that could ruin a video game that squeezes 60 minutes into 20... i mean you can already drain the entire half in 7 plays or something if you really try...

so if you really wanna talk about "arcade" lets start with the obvious things like random goalline dives

ducking, spinning, leaping whirly twirly qbs who consistently hit 45 yard corner routes in stride...

dbs who wont/cant cover certain routes regardless of the play call.

maybe apf2k8 was better on 360 too because i notice most of the guys who dont relate to my feelings at all about this game play on 360 and never experienced the sixaxis issues either.

but if you guys hate EA enough to heap blind praise on any other random game then maybe just stop replying to my threads because im trying to talk sense here and the point blank truth is this...

2k8 wasnt ready to be released last july (at least for ps3)...

some of us dont feel any wackjob/stalker style butt-hurt feelings towards a video game corporation...

this *** attitude rubbed off and corporate 2k is unwilling to even release another game because EA games still sell more and its viewed as some "all or nothing" sales competition when the focus should have been putting out games and making fans happy well making improvements year after year and creating a legitimate attempt to compete...

if EA had pulled a 2k and released some almost-done game the day before launch of another title just to make a quick buck and then refused to put out updates, or even a new title since they werent immediately the market leader you'd be calling them out on it with a million posts a minute so be honest about the fact that maybe there isnt that much praise that needs to be heaped on the 2k football dept. right now.

and finally, if 2 good games come out, im buying them both... if your too dense, too proud or too "arcade" to do that... cool w/ me but maybe try to stop lying about madden all the time it just makes you lose credibility since most of us have played both games.

I actually agree with this guy. When both Madden and 2k8 came out I owned both. After playing 2k8 I immediately loved it alot more than Madden. I liked the graphics and being a huge Barry Sanders fanboi, I loved the way he and the other legends were represented in this game.

But as time went on I am starting to hate this game more and more. The community is limited to a handful of individuals, so we are sitting around forever in a waiting room for someone to enter, then we end up playing the same 2-3 guys every game. That isnts too much fun.

Plus he has a very valid point when he metions that 2k NEVER has put out an update. If EA pulled that stunt on one of their games, we would all be going nuts!

Bottom line is I love 2k8....it is a great game and very fun to play, at least when you can find someone to play with. But if they are just stopping the franchise and never releasing updates, then I will boycott 2k much like you guys are doing with EA and Madden.

I dont like Madden, but at least you can expect a new game each year, roster updates, flowing community, etc.....

And on a side note.....look at GTA4......this is another game that is terrible. Half of the PS3 players cant even play the game, and half of the Xbox 360 players are getting the red ring of death from this bad boy. Look it up online.

[Gunther]

no they dont...



so i guess you're right in the sense that if i had to choose between the 2 defensive games id go with madden... it's just much more "real" and 2k is more "arcade".

Well Madden is far more arcade right now and as the game designers have already stated EA/Madden plans to "Dumb Down" the game and make it more arcade to appeal to a larger audience. They are going for a mass appeal.

Enjoy! :)

[Gunther]

so can you find a link to video evidence or should i just post the 2k 20 yard drop and 90 yard bomb from randal cunninham AGAIN...



You are an idiot..... Any thing can be done in either game if your opponent is a complete tool. What does that prove? I can post video's of true glitches in madden that have been in the game for years. Throwing the ball after you have already crossed the line of scrimmage...Sliding the QB around like hes on ice skates..... Madden is basically unplayable online. But most madden fanboys are offline pretend franchise wierdo's anyway. Madden is a piece of garbage online.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l58u6n_ZOOc
My favorite part of this video is how Eli Manning looks like he could step right in and play O-line or fullback. nice job on the player models. Whats Eli 260lbs now? I had no idea!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMQaZwYc01M
Id like to see this one added to 2k10 I'll admit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz5vp_b37bo&feature=related

You type in madden 08 glitch in you tube and you will get 5000000 vidoe's of various stupid crap in the game....

You type in all pro 2k8 glitch heres the lone video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Nr3uHlnCc

Owned

[themenace47]

ok big m i was gonna take just one link but since the brett farve one is some idiots controller was sitting on its joystick during power up and nothing to do with madden ill go again

ill move on to the 1 you titled "uh-huh" aka rubber neck

so fn what... at least the gameplay is solid, ill give you that it looks like dookie for .008 of a second but at least the game is still fun

ok 1 more...

the 80 yard fg in rookie mode with wind and probably a madden card... not something ive seen in 5 years or 2500 games but whatever

so ill adress the double pass thing... i have heard about it before but ive never seen it since i avoid those guys online...

ive played 400 games or so this year and ive never seen any of those things...

i have seen dorks rifle the same high slant play 20x a game...

ive seen some sorry disconnect tricks and too damn many streak patterns for sure but i was addressing the major gameplay issues, not the 1 in a million freakshow occurences.

besides im a supporter of the fact that ps2 madden dominates NG... and im mostly a sim guy so i avoid the tricksters, glitchers and cheaters which is made easy by the multitudes of madden ballers and pre game reports available in a click of the button.

here's a post i just made on my favorite madden site though concerning madden's new claims

bad joke: EA call CG "legacy gen"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

lol seriously, if any 1 game maker has not yet earned the right to claim "next gen" as their "now" its madden's team of developers, producers, bloggers, site moderators and the whole bunch of them...

it's that time of year where they come out of the india outsourced cave they have been hiding in since '08 dropped and yet again it's time for them to start acting like they give a flip what the community wants BUT...

other EA NG games like need for speed, nhl... even nba live ALREADY have improved gameplay

not to mention the amazing shooters and rpgs... take cod4 for example

then there is madden... the shame of the NG world where you have to go back to ps2 just to flow through an online game and have access to all the features... might i add... the once highly hyped features like formation audibles, shifts and smart routes...

and just like last year they have the nerve to act like CG is so outdated that its time to speak of it in past tense...

legacy gen... get real EA

put out a next gen QUALITY game in 09 or stop talking about what we should call it...