Defense discussion!!!

[JHova1982]

I see a lot of people on the forums claim defense in lack of a better word suck in the all pro lobby.

so this thread is about coming out the closet. reveal your average v.I.p. opponents points but also reveal your own personal perception of how much u believe your opponent is averaging.

also why do u believe your opponents is scoring so high or low whether its team setup, 3-4 scheme, own defensive belief. you get what im saying. ill do myself later cause right now im at work on my wing

[JHova1982]

ok guess ill go first. my opponents V.I.P. points average is 17.4 points a game and from my perception from playing the vet, and average opponents i would say about 20 points a game. i never played a single game in legend since the release of 2k8 but i hear its better and its probably is. but i like knowing that offense has the upper hand when its comes to playing in the all pro lobby. But my legends, generics, and how i want to play defense makes me apprieciate my team and this lovely game more.

well i always been a defensive-minded player, from football to basketball, having a cole offense never appeal to me. i like making stops on the defensive end so i thrive on putting my players in the position to make a play. I have 6 legends on defense and i probably have the most unique team defense setup in the 2k8 community. i have 3 LB, and 3 legends on the defensive line. yes thats right, no secondary legends, all generic.

since this let us create our perfect team, well i always like stopping the run and getting pressure on the qb so i figured do it to the max that this game allows. i bet burned in the passing gain alot, but i dont trip as much as your RB getting 100+ rushing yards. i have been very successful with this setup, i been rank #36(Xbox360) before the reset and i dont play 2k8 as much as i use to so no complaints here

[Numbski]

I'm away from my 360 until tonight, so I can't give you my VIP, but my defense is 2 bronze D-linemen, 2 bronze LB, Gold CB, Silver CB, Gold FS, Silver SS, AND Bronze SS. I line up in a base 3-2 defense, so the only generics I field on defense are a generic DE, and a Generic FS that plays up close usually.

So a 9-star defense, and I've been tweaking this defense to the point that unless my opponent uses just flat out glitchy routes, my defense just pretty much shuts down passing. Versus the run, I'm usually fine, however occassionally I'll hit a Gold HB that will shed 3-4 tackles on a single run, but typically I can contain them well enough.

My philosophy is completely the opposite of yours. The secondary has a tendency to be completely inept, so if I *do* have to man up, the number 1 receiver is doubled up with a bronze LB and Silver CB, with a Gold FS helping over the top, the number 2 receiver has a Gold CB singled on him, and the number 3 has either a bronze SS, or a silver SS on him. All the while, I roam the middle of the field with my bronze ILB to either contain a scrambling QB, or help my OLB who is manned up on the HB. It also helps to keep the TE slant doubled, since the TE will have a man on him already, I can be there to help break that up too.

[JHova1982]

I'm away from my 360 until tonight, so I can't give you my VIP, but my defense is 2 bronze D-linemen, 2 bronze LB, Gold CB, Silver CB, Gold FS, Silver SS, AND Bronze SS. I line up in a base 3-2 defense, so the only generics I field on defense are a generic DE, and a Generic FS that plays up close usually.

So a 9-star defense, and I've been tweaking this defense to the point that unless my opponent uses just flat out glitchy routes, my defense just pretty much shuts down passing. Versus the run, I'm usually fine, however occassionally I'll hit a Gold HB that will shed 3-4 tackles on a single run, but typically I can contain them well enough.

My philosophy is completely the opposite of yours. The secondary has a tendency to be completely inept, so if I *do* have to man up, the number 1 receiver is doubled up with a bronze LB and Silver CB, with a Gold FS helping over the top, the number 2 receiver has a Gold CB singled on him, and the number 3 has either a bronze SS, or a silver SS on him. All the while, I roam the middle of the field with my bronze ILB to either contain a scrambling QB, or help my OLB who is manned up on the HB. It also helps to keep the TE slant doubled, since the TE will have a man on him already, I can be there to help break that up too.

yeah how u describe sounds vicious. 9 people on defense tho(a little too much for me but to each its own) , your offense cant average alot of points with just 2 legends but if its enough to win games then i guess its all good, right.

[Numbski]

I average 24 points per game, roughly (without looking at my VIP, of course).

[amid]

my VIP:
points per game 23
points allowed per game 16
a lot of 3 point games
generic LBs,
1 bronze DE
one team is 2 bronze CB, with 1 gold S, 1 silver S
other team is 1 gold CB, 1 bronze CB; and 1 silver S and 1 Bronze S

scrubs up front and middle, studs behind them

[nyknicks33]

I think where people struggle the most is with user control
-

---i think user control is crucial. Good play calling helps, but I honestly feel that you must make decision to take away 1 option that your opponent has on the field away yourself.

There's too many wack job things that go on with the AI for you not to take some matters into your own hands.

It's impossible to take into account everything, you can only control 1 guy afterall..but make a commitment on a play to take away SOMETHING. See a guy lined up in the slot to thewide side? chances are he is going to try to run an out, corner or some type of slant/in route. Cover him. sometime just running at areciever will throw a guy off lol.

You must put the time and effort into doing it. You'll get your tail kicked learning--heck I still do, but nothing is more satisfying then making a good read, and stoning someone's go to option manually.

A great side effect to this is that you can really get into the head of your opponent and cause him to do all kinds of stupid things.


1 thing I have done is greatly scale back my defensive playbook.

There are a bunch of plays that simply do not work and have no chance of working, so why have them in your playbook?


I have a core set of plays for each package that my team runs that I feel confident using and making adjustments with.

I am also a great believer of downlineman pressure...I believe in having a guy, preferably 2 of them, who can penetrate and wreck some havoc.


when I roll with a 3-4, I have a penetrating hoss in the middle--usually fridge, a pass rush OLB, and a quick versatile LB: Wilcox, Loyd, Braizle, Anderson, someone like that. And then 3 spots for the secondary.

4-3, I want a versatile LB to control in the middle, DT-DE combo, although sometimes I got DE-DE, and then DB's.

2 Downlinemen with pass rush moves is great for causing pressure and will help free a blitzer every now and then when the friggen blitzes actually do work.

I also want to have at least 1 guy on defense with leadership bonus at all times. It really makes a difference.

[Numbski]

I am also a great believer of downlineman pressure...I believe in having a guy, preferably 2 of them, who can penetrate and wreck some havoc.

This is crucial - and the other point I'd make is that generic D-linemen are more or less a waste of oxygen. Don't field any more of them than you possibly must. Unless you roll with 4 star linemen, 3-4, 3-3, or 3-2 simply makes more sense in this game. Sad but true - given the choice I'd run with 4-3, and fall back to Nickel in passing downs, but that simply doesn't work in this game. :(

[nyknicks33]

^^^yeah. I love D-lineman pressure.

The best pressure tandem I have ever generated Is Randy White-LC Greenwood. They have been phenomenal together for me.

Others that I have of note:

Bob Lilly-Too Tall Jones

Dan Saliamua-Lee Roy Selmon

Elvin Bathea-Clyde Simmons.

I have some others that I need to see how they work together more before I pass judgement :)

It's a shame that people consider the gold DT's to be a waste..they are really very good.

[Numbski]

They're great, but too high of a cost for the relative benefit, since most teams are built to dial up the deep ball. I'd LOVE to have Fatso in the middle, but Rice shows up to ruin my fun too often. :/

[JHova1982]

u should setup up your team to however u like. i never worried about my opponent legends and where they have them at. if they have rice, im not gone get a gold CB just to handle, just an example. i think alot people duplicate other people defense and offense but dont know how to use it right. i have randy on one of my team and he been there for a while cause he is a beast, but before him i had art donovan going against raymond berry, and jerry rice and won

[amid]

i had art donovan going against raymond berry, and jerry rice and won
you must be really good!

[JHova1982]

you must be really good!

well i just run my offense and defense and adjust the best way i can. i dont worry about who u have on your team. RICE does give my defense nightmare but we strike back and fight him off like he is freddie. people online are duplicating other peoples team setup and not going by what they like to see from there team cause the next time u play them u see they change there whole identity

i live and die with my team setup, through the good and the bad. i have 2 teams to go against all opponents. ive played rice, maynard, ben coates, and randell all of the same team and held them under 21 before with a gold DT, or MLB and my star gold running back and my supporting cast.

[Numbski]

The reason I can't give up my Gold FS at bare minimum is because a streak to Rice is pretty much an automatic 6 points. The only thing I've found that shuts it down it just ridiculously over-reacting to it, and getting an OLB downfield to help out my Safety and CB. Even then, he'll pull it down in triple coverage if you don't box him out. Sure, pressure might get there, but my experience has been - no. Gold CB, Gold Safety, and pray that one of them can actually get there, and even then they usually don't. Unfortunately, vs Jerry Rice, a gold DT is more or less surrendering the game from the opening snap.

[Gunther]

a streak to Rice is pretty much an automatic 6 points. .

Statements like this one just crack me up!
Rice can be devastating if used right that is true.... so can a lot of gold players. If you could line up and just run a streak for 6 points every play then you would see Rice on every team like Lem Barney. How often do you play against Rice? I almost never see him on the other team.... maybe 1 out of 30 teams I face Rice. Why? because they pick Rice try and use him like they think he is automatic...They find out he isnt and dump him for a gold Rb or Gold CB. You have to be able to read the defense and know when he is going to come open. Look at my video's almost every time I hit Rice he is completely uncovered. In fact I would say on those plays Alvin harper would have worked just as well but I like having Rice's leadership to make my other players better especially generic's.

[Kdrontle]

Statements like this one just crack me up!
Rice can be devastating if used right that is true.... so can a lot of gold players. If you could line up and just run a streak for 6 points every play then you would see Rice on every team like Lem Barney. How often do you play against Rice? I almost never see him on the other team maybe 1 out of 30 teams I face have Rice. Why? because they pick Rice try and use him like they think he is automatic...They find out he isnt and dump him for a gold Rb or Gold CB. You have to be able to read the defense and know when he is going to come open. Look at my video's almost every time I hit Rice he is completely uncovered. In fact I would say on those plays Alvin harper would have worked just as well but I like having Rice's leadership to make my other players better especially generic's.


You are right those touchdowns are NOT automatic. Many measures can be taken to prevent the deep ball. Consider this: A cover 3 with the FS in the middle third shaded towards rice, many blitzing linebackers. Roll to a cover 3 look AND/OR shade your DB's backwards. Pressure along with having DB's shaded back can do a lot against that fade route. Also, simply manually controlling the FS or CB on his side will take away a lot of options also. If you KNOW your opponent is doing something, it is pretty cake to stop it in one way or another.

Also the Gold DT comment isn't necessarily true. Consider putting a Gold DT in the 2nd DT slot, preferably Randy White with swim move and watch all hell break loose. Take the proper precautions disallowing the deep ball and make the opponent work for every single yard he gets! Another advantage to having that gold DLineman can be that you don't necessarily even have to blitz very often a all!

[Numbski]

How often? Just about every game, along with Cunningham and Coates. I get tired of seeing them, truth be told. :(

[Numbski]

The "wide open" comment kinda proves my point too...

I see db's just stand there while he blows right by them. Of course he is wide open.

[JHova1982]

i think alot of people are afraid to let there legends and generics make mistakes, whether its a animation mistake or a bad play call. i have no secondary so u know my generics make alot of bad animations but when i see them make the right play or come big in the clutch then that bad animations just get wipe off my memory. SAME GOES FOR LEGENDS with just a higher expectations.

[Gunther]

How often? Just about every game, along with Cunningham and Coates. I get tired of seeing them, truth be told. :(
How strange because I never see him more than about every 15th game if that. But I only play people with either a high winning percentage, High Ranking, or from this forum... Must be noobs that are using rice all the time against you I dunno

[Gunther]

The "wide open" comment kinda proves my point too...

I see db's just stand there while he blows right by them. Of course he is wide open.

What was your point? That a deep ball to rice is an automatic 6? Nothing can prove your point because your point is untrue. If I call a play and you come out in a defense that leaves NO ONE covering the deep sideline he should be wide open. It wouldnt matter what his name is. LOL

A better question would be why do you continue to play a game you have nothing but disdain for and refuse to do anything to get better at? Because you're a MOD in the forum of said game? Good reason!

[amid]

Statements like this one just crack me up!
Rice can be devastating if used right that is true.... so can a lot of gold players. If you could line up and just run a streak for 6 points every play then you would see Rice on every team like Lem Barney. How often do you play against Rice? I almost never see him on the other team.... maybe 1 out of 30 teams I face Rice. Why? because they pick Rice try and use him like they think he is automatic...They find out he isnt and dump him for a gold Rb or Gold CB. You have to be able to read the defense and know when he is going to come open. Look at my video's almost every time I hit Rice he is completely uncovered. In fact I would say on those plays Alvin harper would have worked just as well but I like having Rice's leadership to make my other players better especially generic's.

i see rice on about 1 in 15 teams. i have shut down rice several times playing gunther and he'll just beat you other ways. i use rice and he is often shut down or limited to a few catches. nflhitman shut him out recently (0 for 5). learn to play defense or just learn to double him. i would rather face rice than any gold HB anyday.

[nyknicks33]

Id rather see Rice then just about any of the gold TE's. I'm also glad to see someone else giving the gold DT's some love. The best pass rush combo I have used to dat is Randy White-LC Greenwood.

Randy White can create some havoc..when his clutch attribute kicks in along with his swim move..look the heck out.

[JHova1982]

I strongly believe its more perpetuatrators out than people who actually know what they like to see from there team. that one reason I don't respond threads like "who a better Safety" or "what WR should I use?"

I don't care if u got 5 wide receivers legends im not changing my defensive setup, my gold DT gone just have to work harder to put pressure on the qb

[GoodSense]

I strongly believe its more perpetuatrators out than people who actually know what they like to see from there team. that one reason I don't respond threads like "who a better Safety" or "what WR should I use?"

I don't care if u got 5 wide receivers legends im not changing my defensive setup, my gold DT gone just have to work harder to put pressure on the qb


I don't respond to those either.
People should just grab who they want and practice with them and hopefully find out their strength and weakness.

But the responses have created the pattern in some cases.

When I created 4 teams in the beginning my last team includes Rice. I've never used it because I only fully developed one... now two teams. (ie... practiced, playbook setup).

In some cases I have players based on what I experience when I played against the cpu.
Some work out based on their legendary status, but some don't.
Some also don't work with my particular scheme in mind for the team.

I'm creating another team now that is heavy on the defense side.
All teams so far have been balanced, but I want to try that defense heavy or offense heavy team to see how they work.

[Jgigs]

I use Rice on my team, but don't face him all that often. Maybe 1 out 20 games or so. He does get shut down or limited from time to time. I often use him as a decoy and sting them once they respect the rest of my offense.

Most people put so much attention on him, my generics completely destroy them.