Joe Calzaghe ducks Kelly Pavlik?

[JoeCalzagheF@n]

Is it true, I'm seeing it all over the forums on boxing websites.. :(

Damn, I'm hearing he is taking that crap fight with roy jones jr. Roy looked like crap in the first 4 rounds against the smaller trinidad... :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

Roys shot to pieces and this is the way Calzaghe wants to retire? He had one more fight left in him and he couldn't even go out like a warrior and fight pavlik. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

[patientsnake]

Is it true, I'm seeing it all over the forums on boxing websites.. :(

Damn, I'm hearing he is taking that crap fight with roy jones jr. Roy looked like crap in the first 4 rounds against the smaller trinidad... :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

Roys shot to pieces and this is the way Calzaghe wants to retire? He had one more fight left in him and he couldn't even go out like a warrior and fight pavlik. :thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow

Pavlik would hunt him down and take his head off. If he wants to retire undefeated, RJJ is the smart fight. I like Joe, and would like to see him retire undefeated, so I'm OK with him ducking Pavlik.

[Charlie Murphy]

lol, Joe won't duck Pavlik, he wants the fight as much as Kelly does, they WILL fight, and patientsnake I'm afraid your wrong... Joe will beat Kelly by a wide UD.

[TheDukeof74]

Pavlik would hunt him down and take his head off. If he wants to retire undefeated, RJJ is the smart fight. I like Joe, and would like to see him retire undefeated, so I'm OK with him ducking Pavlik.
Tru dat:) :) :)

[Charlie Murphy]

Nope, not true :)

[patientsnake]

lol, Joe won't duck Pavlik, he wants the fight as much as Kelly does, they WILL fight, and patientsnake I'm afraid your wrong... Joe will beat Kelly by a wide UD.

I would definitely watch the fight, I just don't think Joe's work rate would be enough to win. Joe throws a lot of wide looking shots and Pavlik's jab and straight rights will do well against him.

[Charlie Murphy]

So would I, would be an excellent fight, I like Pavlik, but in my eyes there's no way he'll ever beat Calzaghe, but then again you could be right, lets hope we get to find out. *fingers crossed*

[warp]

Nah he did this with Bernard too. Said he was gonna fight Clinton woods or Winky Wright insted so he got 50/50. He might want more money.

If not, he fights Jones first, and then fights Pavlik because it's too big of a fight to pass up.

[patientsnake]

So would I, would be an excellent fight, I like Pavlik, but in my eyes there's no way he'll ever beat Calzaghe, but then again you could be right, lets hope we get to find out. *fingers crossed*


They are definitely my two favorite fighters right now, and two of the reasons I got PF. I wouldn't even know who to root for if they fought though.

[JoeCalzagheF@n]

I want Calzaghe to beat up Pavlik, but I think the longer Calz waits the quicker father time says you waited too long for this fight joe

[korey1980]

I would definitely watch the fight, I just don't think Joe's work rate would be enough to win. Joe throws a lot of wide looking shots and Pavlik's jab and straight rights will do well against him.

Thats what I thought Kessler was gonna do against Calzaghe. Joe will embarass Pavlik in a very similar fight to that of his fight with Kessler.

[korey1980]

In all the articles I've read, it says nothing about Calzaghe and Pavlik not fighting. It simply says, that Joe wants Roy next, and Pavlik afterwards. Get it right, Joe aint duckin nobody

[martyboyuk]

Guys watch the Joe Calzaghe interview on the prizefighter game once u have completed the career mode and unlocked it, he says after the hopkins fight he wont fight again and if he does it will purely be for money, jones brings more money to the table....

[Charlie Murphy]

Joe never seems to make it clear, he said he wants to fight Jones, which makes sense just for the money, but he says that he's just on a different level to Pavlik (therefore saying he won't fight him) which is totally true, click on the link below, and listen to the interview with Joe which is towards the bottom of the page.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/7452994.stm

There is another article on Joe here:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3442635

and this is what I meant when I said Joe never seems to make it clear "It's not beyond the realms of possibility that we will face each other but I think Jones is the right fight for me at the moment."

I reckon there's a 90% chance that Joe will fight Kelly.

[metallicatz]

The last thing in the world you should believe is internet forum chatter. It is quite possibly the most unreliable source of information in existence.

[SmileForTheDevil]

The last thing in the world you should believe is internet forum chatter. It is quite possibly the most unreliable source of information in existence.

wouldnt that make ur post unreliable?

[patientsnake]

wouldnt that make ur post unreliable?

Good one. :rotfl:

[JoeCalzagheF@n]

Guys watch the Joe Calzaghe interview on the prizefighter game once u have completed the career mode and unlocked it, he says after the hopkins fight he wont fight again and if he does it will purely be for money, jones brings more money to the table....

What the ****, thats something floyd mayweather would say by ducking his opponents like cotto, margarito, paul williams, and all the other good welterweights.

[korey1980]

What the ****, thats something floyd mayweather would say by ducking his opponents like cotto, margarito, paul williams, and all the other good welterweights.

Not really. Who has Joe ducked in the past? Hes looking for a big payday, he's 36 and knows his future in boxing will limited to another year ot so. The only opponent people could say Joe ducked was Jr. in his prime, and even then the reason they didnt fight is because neither one wanted to go overseas, which is understandable for both parties. Floyd doesnt even fight the best in his own country. Therefore, I dont agree with your comparison.

[Goodfella2279]

I would have liked to see Jones vs. Calzaghe like 5 years ago. Granted, Calzaghe is a better fighter now in my opinion but Jones is definitely not the same fighter he once was. I just don't see any way he beats Calzaghe unless Joe really takes him lightly. Jones really is a shot fighter and yes, did lose some early rounds against a undersized, also past his prime Trinidad. But this isn't a fight that I would pay for. I, like just about everyone else, wants to see Calzaghe vs. Pavlik. That is such an interesting fight on so many levels and to me is a pick 'em fight. Calzaghe is much faster but Pavlik is a murderous puncher who has a chance at really hurting Joe. I mean, Joe got knocked down by Hopkins and Bernard really isn't known as a 1 punch k.o. guy at all. Hopefully that fight will happen. It will be good for boxing.

[metallicatz]

wouldnt that make ur post unreliable?

Internet message boards are a hotbed of rampant baseless speculation and mis-information. If you're looking for factual information surrounding a given event you could definitely do much better. How would internet BB posters have the first clue what's really going on w/ Pavlik or anybody else? They don't, nor will they ever. Regarding video game impressions it's all a matter of opinion anyway. It's up to the reader to decide what they take from reviews posted by other players.

[korey1980]

I would have liked to see Jones vs. Calzaghe like 5 years ago. Granted, Calzaghe is a better fighter now in my opinion but Jones is definitely not the same fighter he once was. I just don't see any way he beats Calzaghe unless Joe really takes him lightly. Jones really is a shot fighter and yes, did lose some early rounds against a undersized, also past his prime Trinidad. But this isn't a fight that I would pay for. I, like just about everyone else, wants to see Calzaghe vs. Pavlik. That is such an interesting fight on so many levels and to me is a pick 'em fight. Calzaghe is much faster but Pavlik is a murderous puncher who has a chance at really hurting Joe. I mean, Joe got knocked down by Hopkins and Bernard really isn't known as a 1 punch k.o. guy at all. Hopefully that fight will happen. It will be good for boxing.

Calzaghe's knockdown in the first round was an off-balance knockdown, and nothing more. Hopkins never hurt him in the whole fight. Saying Pavlik is a muderous puncher at middleweight is a fact, but one or two divisions above that is just plain wrong. How many middleweights have you see move up to light heavy and still carry 1 punch kayo power? Answer is none. Jones was a good puncher at light heavyweight, but didnt have 1 punch power. Kelly is in for a big suprise if he thinks he can move up in weight and handle their size and or power. We all saw him hurt at middleweight, by a guy who couldnt even get Spinks, or Ouma outta there. Kelly will get worked and kayo'd in the higher weight divisions.

[TDEEZY58]

Calzaghe's knockdown in the first round was an off-balance knockdown, and nothing more. Hopkins never hurt him in the whole fight.

Watch the end of the 7th Round (I think). Calzaghe gets tagged with a right hand that definitely shakes him up especially his legs. He recovers in between rounds but if there was some time left in the round Calzaghe definitely would have been dropped for the second time.

[korey1980]

Watch the end of the 7th Round (I think). Calzaghe gets tagged with a right hand that definitely shakes him up especially his legs. He recovers in between rounds but if there was some time left in the round Calzaghe definitely would have been dropped for the second time.

I saw it, he looked a little rubbery, but was smart enough to ride it out. I just think he is way too smart to lose to a guy that doesnt have as much experience as he does.

[rayratchet]

cali is VASTLY OVERRATED & RJJR would wash him even at dis age

[mvrck945]

Unfortunately Joe will not fight his mandortory Carl Froch, mainly because he knows the Cobra will destroy him. So it's really no surprise he's ducking Pavlik as well and opting for a big payday with Jr. Shame really I would of liked to of seen a British dust up between Calzaghe and Froch.

[korey1980]

Unfortunately Joe will not fight his mandortory Carl Froch, mainly because he knows the Cobra will destroy him. So it's really no surprise he's ducking Pavlik as well and opting for a big payday with Jr. Shame really I would of liked to of seen a British dust up between Calzaghe and Froch.

Nothing Carl Froch has done in his career says he can beat Calzaghe. I hope him beating a battle worn Robin Reid isnt why you are making crazy assumptions. Kessler was way more worthy than Froch, and Joe gave him a beating. Froch should fight Kessler, then we'll see just how good he is. Might actually be a good fight if Kessler doesnt ice him too quickly.

[Goodfella2279]

lol @ Carl Froch. Looks like a good fighter, but definitely not in Joe's league. Just saw him fight on Showtime a few weeks ago and while he k.o. ed the guy he fought, he didn't impress me all that much. I know he took the fight on short notice, but he looks way too hittable to beat a world class guy like Calzaghe. I see Calzaghe winning that fight by 6 or 7th round stoppage.

[BANKY]

Nothing Carl Froch has done in his career says he can beat Calzaghe. I hope him beating a battle worn Robin Reid isnt why you are making crazy assumptions. Kessler was way more worthy than Froch, and Joe gave him a beating. Froch should fight Kessler, then we'll see just how good he is. Might actually be a good fight if Kessler doesnt ice him too quickly.
korey, why all the love for Calzaghe? You are espousing his virtues left and right in here bro. While I am not willing to say that Calzaghe is vastly overated, i am willing to point out that he is somewhat overated.

Lacy, Manfredo, kessler, hopkins. THAT'S IT! Jeff Lacy was a decent prospect, but what he has done since then makes that win seem less and less great by the day. Manfredo, cmon, the contender didn't have a chance with ANYONE on the elite level(and joe is elite). Kessler, who had he fought? His record is not that much more impressive than Carl Froch's! Hopkins, o, you mean that 43 year old man that had lost 2 of his last 3 before that to a guy that got ktfo by pavlik and then outworked in the second fight?

Let's be honest, Calzaghe made his name by beating an old Chris Eubank. He then defended against BUMS! Straight BUMS! Nobody outside of the UK believed that Calzaghe was that good. The rap was that he was too feather fisted, something he has not failed to live down in his last four performances. Then, when Lacy came over the pond, nobody expected Joe to win, unless you lived in the UK. Manfredo was a tuneup and a bad stoppage. The fight with Kessler was great, but was it a step up, not really. Yes, kessler was his mandatory, but how has kessler looked since then, ducking the fierce Edison Miranda(who coincidentally, got ktfo by pavlik as well). Now, he beats an old bhop and we're supposed to think he is the next best thing since sliced bread?

What about Jones? What about Toney? What about all the fighters that Joe would not fight, because he didn't want to come to America, where the best fighters and the biggest purses are? Hell, you even said that Joe had fought all the best competition in the UK, what about Danny Green? What about Darius? What about Sven? Dude, the list goes on and on. There are so many guys that Joe could have fought that he just didn't.

Pavlik, will beat Joe if they ever fight. Joe knows this. Pavlik, for all his awkwardness, is technically sound(cept that left hook he throws from his waist, yuck, but what power!). Pavlik, has power and defense and a chin. He took Edison Miranda's best shots and powered right through them. He took Jermain's best, got up and knocked him out. Fact is, Joe has not been tested against a truly elite fighter and to say that he would beat Kelly is presumptuous. Pavlik has beaten the Linear middleweight champ of the world.

It would be a great fight, but i seriously doubt Joe would win.

[BANKY]

Nothing Carl Froch has done in his career says he can beat Calzaghe. I hope him beating a battle worn Robin Reid isnt why you are making crazy assumptions. Kessler was way more worthy than Froch, and Joe gave him a beating. Froch should fight Kessler, then we'll see just how good he is. Might actually be a good fight if Kessler doesnt ice him too quickly.
The same Robin Reid that Joe Calzaghe went life and death with? The same Robin Reid that Joe barely got a SD against?

[korey1980]

The same Robin Reid that Joe Calzaghe went life and death with? The same Robin Reid that Joe barely got a SD against?

Robin Reid fought Joe C in 1999, and Froch in 2007. Not the same version of Robin Reid, by any means.

[korey1980]

korey, why all the love for Calzaghe? You are espousing his virtues left and right in here bro. While I am not willing to say that Calzaghe is vastly overated, i am willing to point out that he is somewhat overated.

Lacy, Manfredo, kessler, hopkins. THAT'S IT! Jeff Lacy was a decent prospect, but what he has done since then makes that win seem less and less great by the day. Manfredo, cmon, the contender didn't have a chance with ANYONE on the elite level(and joe is elite). Kessler, who had he fought? His record is not that much more impressive than Carl Froch's! Hopkins, o, you mean that 43 year old man that had lost 2 of his last 3 before that to a guy that got ktfo by pavlik and then outworked in the second fight?

Let's be honest, Calzaghe made his name by beating an old Chris Eubank. He then defended against BUMS! Straight BUMS! Nobody outside of the UK believed that Calzaghe was that good. The rap was that he was too feather fisted, something he has not failed to live down in his last four performances. Then, when Lacy came over the pond, nobody expected Joe to win, unless you lived in the UK. Manfredo was a tuneup and a bad stoppage. The fight with Kessler was great, but was it a step up, not really. Yes, kessler was his mandatory, but how has kessler looked since then, ducking the fierce Edison Miranda(who coincidentally, got ktfo by pavlik as well). Now, he beats an old bhop and we're supposed to think he is the next best thing since sliced bread?

What about Jones? What about Toney? What about all the fighters that Joe would not fight, because he didn't want to come to America, where the best fighters and the biggest purses are? Hell, you even said that Joe had fought all the best competition in the UK, what about Danny Green? What about Darius? What about Sven? Dude, the list goes on and on. There are so many guys that Joe could have fought that he just didn't.

Pavlik, will beat Joe if they ever fight. Joe knows this. Pavlik, for all his awkwardness, is technically sound(cept that left hook he throws from his waist, yuck, but what power!). Pavlik, has power and defense and a chin. He took Edison Miranda's best shots and powered right through them. He took Jermain's best, got up and knocked him out. Fact is, Joe has not been tested against a truly elite fighter and to say that he would beat Kelly is presumptuous. Pavlik has beaten the Linear middleweight champ of the world.

It would be a great fight, but i seriously doubt Joe would win.

K, I believe in Calzaghe because he proved me wrong vs Kessler. Kessler ko'd Beyer in like round 2, who was a supermiddleweight champion at the time, so that is a notable win to me. I know thats about it for him, but I think the guy has some good skills, and thought he could utilize his straighter, and more crisp punching style against Calzaghe. Boy was I wrong. Joe is great at dictating the pace of the fight. And it hasnt changed, besides a bit with Hopkins, but theres no shame in not being able to have everything go your way against a cagey vet like Hopkins. I'm counting out all younger guys that face Calzaghe, because I think he wont be beaten by them due to his ring experience. The guy knows how to win. And cant see a guy with less experience than him getting the best of him. Joe can lose, dont get me wrong, but it will have to be against someone that can match his witts in the ring. Get me?

[Goodfella2279]

You make some good points in there Banky. I didn't give Joe C. much credit until the Jeff Lacy fight, which was one of the most technically brilliant performances I've ever seen. He dominated every facet of the fight. Say what you will about Lacy, but to completely dominate in a big fight like that was impressive and Lacy was a top contender and undefeated at the time. And his performance against Kessler made me a bigger fan. I don't think he's the best pound for pound fighter in the sport. And the super middleweight division, which he ruled for 10 years, was overall fairly weak. That being said, he is a excellent fighter who has beaten everyone put in front of him. And that 43 year old Hopkins would still beat 97% of the fighters in the sport from Middleweight to Light Heavyweight. So I don't discredit that win either. I do think him vs. Pavlik is a pick-em fight because it's Calzaghe's speed vs. Pavlik's power. If Hopkins, who is not known as a one punch k.o. guy, knocked Calzaghe down then he may be in trouble against Pavlik. That being said, Calzaghe's movement and speed could pose all sorts of difficulty for Pavlik. I really hope that fight happens because it's a really interesting fight.

[korey1980]

You make some good points in there Banky. I didn't give Joe C. much credit until the Jeff Lacy fight, which was one of the most technically brilliant performances I've ever seen. He dominated every facet of the fight. Say what you will about Lacy, but to completely dominate in a big fight like that was impressive and Lacy was a top contender and undefeated at the time. And his performance against Kessler made me a bigger fan. I don't think he's the best pound for pound fighter in the sport. And the super middleweight division, which he ruled for 10 years, was overall fairly weak. That being said, he is a excellent fighter who has beaten everyone put in front of him. And that 43 year old Hopkins would still beat 97% of the fighters in the sport from Middleweight to Light Heavyweight. So I don't discredit that win either. I do think him vs. Pavlik is a pick-em fight because it's Calzaghe's speed vs. Pavlik's power. If Hopkins, who is not known as a one punch k.o. guy, knocked Calzaghe down then he may be in trouble against Pavlik. That being said, Calzaghe's movement and speed could pose all sorts of difficulty for Pavlik. I really hope that fight happens because it's a really interesting fight.

I hope it happens too, but it seems unlikely. At first Calzaghe was saying he was gonna fight Jones, ten Kelly afterwards. Now it seems that the farewell fight for Joe. I'd rather see Jones vs Calzaghe, because Jones is my fave fighter, and a win would be a perfect exclamation on the final fight of his career, and give Jones some kind of redemption for the last couple years. Thus sending him into retirement with his head up. Thats what I'm hoping for.

[rayratchet]

CO-SIGN that^^^

[mvrck945]

lol @ Carl Froch. Looks like a good fighter, but definitely not in Joe's league. Just saw him fight on Showtime a few weeks ago and while he k.o. ed the guy he fought, he didn't impress me all that much. I know he took the fight on short notice, but he looks way too hittable to beat a world class guy like Calzaghe. I see Calzaghe winning that fight by 6 or 7th round stoppage.

You shoudn't really judge Froch on that fight. It was the 3rd replacement at short notice I think. The fans had to wait till 1am for the fight even though Jr Witters bore fest had finshed an hour or two beforehand. He decided to put on a show for the fans and it would of been a 1st round knock out if it wasn't for a rediucoulsy strongminded Pole, who took one hell of beating and he didn't know when to say enough is enough.

I'm not saying Froch is amazing, he is one of the most ducked fighters around so it's hard to actually judge his ability fairly. I personally think Joe is running scared of Froch let alone Pavlik. Froch's speed and power would be too much for Joe's china hands to deal with.

He won't fight Froch because the money isn't there. Froch will fight for nothing, they could easily sell out the mellenium stadium, a good all British dust up would make Joe very rich. If Joe is so much better than Froch surely this is easy money and he can have another fight afterwards. additonally there would be even more money for the Pavlik fight, but he know's it would be an extremely tough fight that he probably lose, especially with his mindset of finishing his career undefeated.

Joe is being selfish, he should of had all of his money fights over in the states a long time ago. If this is stay at home Joe's last fight why is he finishing with a fight in Vegas. Yeah thanks fans for all your loyal support but sod you I want to take the easier fight for an easy pay check. Joe and Frank Warren are too concnerned about finishing his career with an unbeated record. Why though some of the greatest boxers in the world got beat. This will just leave a shadow on Joe's career!

[King-Of-Kings]

I would have liked to see Jones vs. Calzaghe like 5 years ago. Granted, Calzaghe is a better fighter now in my opinion but Jones is definitely not the same fighter he once was. I just don't see any way he beats Calzaghe unless Joe really takes him lightly. Jones really is a shot fighter and yes, did lose some early rounds against a undersized, also past his prime Trinidad. But this isn't a fight that I would pay for. I, like just about everyone else, wants to see Calzaghe vs. Pavlik. That is such an interesting fight on so many levels and to me is a pick 'em fight. Calzaghe is much faster but Pavlik is a murderous puncher who has a chance at really hurting Joe. I mean, Joe got knocked down by Hopkins and Bernard really isn't known as a 1 punch k.o. guy at all. Hopefully that fight will happen. It will be good for boxing.

i agree goodfella

[Goodfella2279]

Good points MVRCK945. To be totally honest, that fight on the same card as the Witter-Bradley fight (God, who saw that coming? What an upset! To be honest, I'm not really a big fan of Witter because it seems like, and maybe I'm wrong, he fights more not to get hit than fighting to win. Just my opinion from the 4 or 5 Witter fights I've seen.) was the first time I've ever seen Froch fight, so I can't pretend I'm the foremost authority on him. Just going based on that performance, I don't think he would beat Joe but who knows. I just hope Joe takes the big risk for the big money and fights Pavlik. That's one of the biggest fights in boxing right now and a fight I really want to see.

Speaking of Europeon fighters, are any of you looking forward to the Hatton vs. Malinaggi fight? I saw the double header on VS and both fighters didn't look good. Malinaggi, with the stupidest hairdo in the history of boxing, had to get his hair cut in the middle of the fight so he could see. It was the dumbest thing I think I've ever seen in boxing. And, Paulie hurt his hand AGAIN. I mean, if you can't fight without breaking your hands, then boxing is probably not what you should be doing. The problem is while Mayweather would still fight well even after breaking his hands, which happened often, Malinaggi becomes almost unglued and starts fighting erratically and stupid.
Hatton didn't look good either, and it begs the question can Hatton be the same fighter he was prior to his K.O. loss to Mayweather. He's an exciting fighter to watch, but Malinaggi's movement could cause problems. I'm picking Hatton in this fight, but I have a feeling it's going to be an ugly, mauling fight.

[korey1980]

Carl Froch showed up to the party too late. He owns the brittish commonwealth title, not a major belt by any means. Why would Joe give him a shot? If he did he would be crucified by all boxing fans, for taking that fight as his last fight. He is the #6 ranked supermiddle. He wont land a fight with Calzaghe. He needs to fight for a REAL title, before he can even be considered as one of the top 3 super middleweights(imo). There will always be unbeaten contenders with padded records, thats all Froch is to me right now.

[mvrck945]

Carl Froch showed up to the party too late. He owns the brittish commonwealth title, not a major belt by any means. Why would Joe give him a shot? .

Maybe because he's his #1 mandatory challenger?

He needs to fight for a REAL title, before he can even be considered as one of the top 3 super middleweights(imo).

Well how can he when Joe isn't going to fight him? Looks like the vacant world title will go between Froch and someone else anyway. I've heard a rumour on another forum that Bika is a possibilty.

If he did he would be crucified by all boxing fans, for taking that fight as his last fight.

I'm not saying Froch should be his last fight far from it. I think Calzaghe should be fighting Pavlik then go for the big Payday with Jr. It doesn't look right ducking Froch and Pavlik and going straight for Jr. If he decides to end his career with Jr I think his career won't look quite as good as it should. Also if he's as a good as he think he is why is he not taking these fights? He's cleary driven by the money at the moment and surely more fights means more money.

Anyway I don't think he would be crucified by all boxing fans especially in the UK. No one can see Joe's fights anyway as they are Setanta :) ....Just shows Joe doesn't give a rats *** about his fans. He's seen how much dollar Hatton can command and he wants a peice of the action.

[Goodfella2279]

I wouldn't have a problem with Joe fighting Froch as long as he takes a big fight afterwards in the event that he wins. The main problem with that fight is that Joe is looking to retire very soon and probably only wants to fight 1 or 2 more fights, so he wants to maximize the amount of money he makes in them. If I were Joe, I would put the cap at 3 fights and try to fight someone like Froch first, then Pavlik and then, if he wanted to, Jones. I guess we will see what happens.

[korey1980]

Maybe because he's his #1 mandatory challenger?



Well how can he when Joe isn't going to fight him? Looks like the vacant world title will go between Froch and someone else anyway. I've heard a rumour on another forum that Bika is a possibilty.



I'm not saying Froch should be his last fight far from it. I think Calzaghe should be fighting Pavlik then go for the big Payday with Jr. It doesn't look right ducking Froch and Pavlik and going straight for Jr. If he decides to end his career with Jr I think his career won't look quite as good as it should. Also if he's as a good as he think he is why is he not taking these fights? He's cleary driven by the money at the moment and surely more fights means more money.

Anyway I don't think he would be crucified by all boxing fans especially in the UK. No one can see Joe's fights anyway as they are Setanta :) ....Just shows Joe doesn't give a rats *** about his fans. He's seen how much dollar Hatton can command and he wants a peice of the action.

What it all comes down to is that Joe is 36, and knows(himself only) how much he has left in the tank. If he says hes looking for 1 last fight, who are we to say he should do any different. He's on the tail end of his career and knows it. Its not like he's at his peak like Mayweather, and is just retiring to dodge opponents. Joe is getting old guys, he doesnt need to fight any longer. The only thing he can be criticized for is not coming to U.S. earlier. But who can really blame him for that? It causes problems for fighters leaving their homeland. Alot of U.S. fighters refuse to go overseas, and it is understandable, it should be likewise for fighters not from here.

[BANKY]

What it all comes down to is that Joe is 36, and knows(himself only) how much he has left in the tank. If he says hes looking for 1 last fight, who are we to say he should do any different. He's on the tail end of his career and knows it. Its not like he's at his peak like Mayweather, and is just retiring to dodge opponents. Joe is getting old guys, he doesnt need to fight any longer. The only thing he can be criticized for is not coming to U.S. earlier. But who can really blame him for that? It causes problems for fighters leaving their homeland. Alot of U.S. fighters refuse to go overseas, and it is understandable, it should be likewise for fighters not from here.
that's not the only thing you can blame him for. What about not fighting darius, sven, green and a host of other great fighters in and around his weight class that were europeans. He is as padded as PBF. I think Joe has some skill, but noone will ever convince me that he had to 10 skills for this or any other era. In this day and age, so many fighters have been protected its ridiculous. They do this at the expense of the middle class of boxing, always forgetting where it is they actually came from. Sucks that they are like this, but what can you say?

Manny Pac is the greatest fighter in the game today. He struggles with opponents, but its not like he isn't fighting the greatest fighters in his division. Joe, well, he's always done much less that that. Joe fought eubank, lacy, kessler and hopkins. Those are joe's signature wins. Manny fought MAB, EM, JMM(various times with each guy). That's three elites, not protected fighters, true to life elite fighters and he has arguably beaten everyone of them. Joe is ducking Kelly, but we shouldn't act surprised, he's been doing it his whole career.

[Goodfella2279]

While I do give Joe credit for beating Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins, before the Lacy fight I thought Joe was overprotected as well. I do give Calzaghe a lot of credit for all of his title defenses and I don't fault him for fighting close to home because he has made a good living doing that. But the reality is that you have to come to the U.S. if you are a fighter in order to get the best and most lucrative fights. That's not being nationalistic, that's just reality. The boxing community, as a whole, puts more emphasis on fights that take place in Vegas, or MSG, etc. then a fight in Wales, or England or Germany. So in staying there, Joe probably missed out on a lot of great opportunities that he would have had had he been willing to travel to the U.S. to fight. I am happy that he decided to come to Vegas to fight Hopkins, but I have a feeling that for his next fight he is almost definitely going to stay in Wales. He is 36, so I have no problem with a fighter wanting to go out with his mental faculties about him. But if he really wants to go out with a bang, he needs to fight Pavlik. My fear is that he'll block the fight because he wants the fight to take place in Wales, and Pavlik may feel he would not get a fair shake should the fight go to the cards. If Joe is a true champion and wants to be remembered as a great Europeon fighter, then make the Pavlik fight happen. End of story.

[korey1980]

that's not the only thing you can blame him for. What about not fighting darius, sven, green and a host of other great fighters in and around his weight class that were europeans. He is as padded as PBF. I think Joe has some skill, but noone will ever convince me that he had to 10 skills for this or any other era. In this day and age, so many fighters have been protected its ridiculous. They do this at the expense of the middle class of boxing, always forgetting where it is they actually came from. Sucks that they are like this, but what can you say?

Manny Pac is the greatest fighter in the game today. He struggles with opponents, but its not like he isn't fighting the greatest fighters in his division. Joe, well, he's always done much less that that. Joe fought eubank, lacy, kessler and hopkins. Those are joe's signature wins. Manny fought MAB, EM, JMM(various times with each guy). That's three elites, not protected fighters, true to life elite fighters and he has arguably beaten everyone of them. Joe is ducking Kelly, but we shouldn't act surprised, he's been doing it his whole career.

I'm not saying I agree with how Joe has conducted his career. Joe has accomplished alot in the last few years. Kessler is probably better than most on your list of opponents Joe so-called "ducked". Dariuz was overrated as well, it took a guy that Jones beat up for 12 rounds(Julio Gonzales) to prove how much of a myth he was. Lacy was supposed to be the heir apparent to Joe, so whats wrong with that win? Lacy looked terrifying the way he was overpowering all of his opponents up until he fought Joe.

Manny is the real deal, but the Morales victories wouldve meant alot more if they wouldve come a few years earlier. I still think Marquez is a better fighter than Manny also. Manny openly admitted he thought Marquez had won their last fight. Yet when asked if he would fight Marquez again, he says no.

[Goodfella2279]

One other thing. I do agree that Manny Pacquaio is a great fighter who has beaten the top fighters in his division. What makes it more impressive is that Pacquaio's former division had some of the best fighters in boxing at the time. The main problem with Joe, or a guy like Roy Jones back when he was a light heavy, was that they don't have very deep divisions. The super middleweight division had some descent, but no real world class guys when Joe ruled it, and the same can be said for Jones at light heavy. The biggest issue that I had back when Jones was king and prior to Calzaghe moving up to fight Hopkins was their refusal to leave their weight class for bigger fights. If you recall, Jones constantly talked about moving up to heavyweight for years before he actually did it against Ruiz. Calzaghe ruled his division for 10 years before deciding to take a chance and fight Hopkins at Light Heavy. I'm glad they finally made a move, but the issue was that they stayed way too long at their weight class instead of trying to make big fights in a upper, lower, or even catch weight. A lot of these fighters wait too long to make these fights happen and by the time they do (Tyson vs. Lewis anyone?) they lose a lot of their luster and relevance.

[BANKY]

I'm not saying I agree with how Joe has conducted his career. Joe has accomplished alot in the last few years. Kessler is probably better than most on your list of opponents Joe so-called "ducked". Dariuz was overrated as well, it took a guy that Jones beat up for 12 rounds(Julio Gonzales) to prove how much of a myth he was. Lacy was supposed to be the heir apparent to Joe, so whats wrong with that win? Lacy looked terrifying the way he was overpowering all of his opponents up until he fought Joe.

Manny is the real deal, but the Morales victories wouldve meant alot more if they wouldve come a few years earlier. I still think Marquez is a better fighter than Manny also. Manny openly admitted he thought Marquez had won their last fight. Yet when asked if he would fight Marquez again, he says no.
I try not to use the, "transitional" argument when talking about boxing, invariably, we always go there, but i "try" not to. Isn't it the truth that Darius was already old when Julio did that to him? You can't really say that because jones smacked a guy that beat darius up when he was getting towards the end means that Joe would have whooped him. As for Sven, there was no reason for them not fighting. Danny Green, im not so sure that Joe would have beat him. And yes, Lacy looked terrifying, but who had he beat? There is a reason he went after Joe Calzaghe and not the other champs at the time. Because Joe was considered the weakest.
I understand why you guys rank Joe up there, but i think we forget a little too quickly just what he hasn't done throughout his career. We say, "he didn't want to come over seas". Well, he could have fought the biggest contenders on his side of the pond then, overrated or not. We say, "his last four victories were awesome though". Well, let's see, Lacy(not the best boxer and more of a mini tyson), kessler(a boxer who looked good, but because of the lack of real competition is an unknown commodity), Bika, Manfredo(the contender), and Hopkins(old old man that really shouldn't even be in the ring anymore).
It's about picking your spots. I was reading that Gary Lockett sparred with Joe all the time and that he more than held his own against him, hence Joe's outlook on the pavlik fight(Joe said Gary would kill him). Now, if this guy held his own with Joe, what would pavlik do(damn transitional arguments:rotfl: ). I just think we have to look a little deeper to see the truth of Joe Calzaghe. Im not saying he isn't a good fighter. But we vastly overrate him and until he steps in the ring with someone in their prime(he should have done it when he was in his but since he waited, he's gotta do it now) and shows them the ropes, I can't count him as the best p4p. William Detloff of the Ring magazine thinks Joe would whoop on pavlik right now. I already wrote him a nice long email and told him he is better than that. I think that's why im overly wordy with this post.


One other thing. I do agree that Manny Pacquaio is a great fighter who has beaten the top fighters in his division. What makes it more impressive is that Pacquaio's former division had some of the best fighters in boxing at the time. The main problem with Joe, or a guy like Roy Jones back when he was a light heavy, was that they don't have very deep divisions. The super middleweight division had some descent, but no real world class guys when Joe ruled it, and the same can be said for Jones at light heavy. The biggest issue that I had back when Jones was king and prior to Calzaghe moving up to fight Hopkins was their refusal to leave their weight class for bigger fights. If you recall, Jones constantly talked about moving up to heavyweight for years before he actually did it against Ruiz. Calzaghe ruled his division for 10 years before deciding to take a chance and fight Hopkins at Light Heavy. I'm glad they finally made a move, but the issue was that they stayed way too long at their weight class instead of trying to make big fights in a upper, lower, or even catch weight. A lot of these fighters wait too long to make these fights happen and by the time they do (Tyson vs. Lewis anyone?) they lose a lot of their luster and relevance.
I would beg to differ, Joe and Roy had plenty of fighter that they could have fought. How long was the Darius drum beating for Roy? Regardless of what julio did to him, how long was it beating? Instead, roy wanted to rap on the way to the ring and play a full basketball game on fight night. roy knew exactly what he was doing. As for Joe, before the lacy fight, he was hammered about why he didn't fight the best. He got taken to task in more than one article about how eubank gave him his fight and passed the torch. And Joe then proceeded to duck every viable contender on both sides of the pond. How long was he supposed to fight Green and ottke. Its funny cause we are americans and never hear of these things, but it was something akin to the way mayweather is looked at here in the states, as a chump, that's why he was never as big in the UK as Hatton became. Hatton fought anyone and everyone and fought the best at his weight and not only won, but won big in a hard fought war where he showed his heart.

[Goodfella2279]

First of all, regarding the Dariusz vs. Jones saga, the main thing that was holding that fight up was Dariusz refusing to leave his country to fight Jones. I'm sure Jones would have fought him had Dariusz not been paranoid to leave his country. And the reality is that at the time, Jones was the recognized champion and star, so Dariusz had no leverage to dictate where the fight was to take place. Also, that fight would have meant the same to most fans as most of Jones' title defenses because Dariusz wasn't a widely known commodity outside of his country. And if you want a great example of a padded record, look at Dariusz, who really didn't beat anyone of consequence outside of Virgil Hill and Montel Griffin. While all this was going on, Hopkins kept hounding Jones to fight him, but the money split and Jones' refusal to meet him at a catch weight prevented this rematch from happening. Not to mention Jones always teasing moving up to heavyweight, yet being content to stay at light heavy and fight tomato cans.

Calzaghe also had potential fights at upper and lower weights, but his stubborness to stay at super middle and his refusal to leave Wales cost him fights. While Green and Ottke would have been descent title defenses, I don't think either fight would have set the world on fire. Instead, he defended his title against guys he was supposed to beat. The reality is that if Calzaghe was more well known in this country, he possibly could have fought Hopkins a few years ago or moved up in weight to fight Jones. I like Calzaghe and think he's a very good fighter, but my main argument was that both fighters refused to take a lot of risks until they pretty much had to, and I think they hurt their legacies by doing so. Look at Manny. Dominant in 3 weight classes, now moves up to lightweight for a bunch of very good possible fights. That is what makes him so good. The drive to fight the best and the desire to do whatever it takes to make those fights happen.

[korey1980]

Was Dariuz willing to come to the U.S. to fight Roy? No. From fights I've seen, Dariuz didnt want to leave his backyard and for a very good reason. Dariuz got quite a few hometown, and gift decisions. Gonzales beat him bad enough that he couldnt be denied. I wouldnt go over there if I were Jones either, look at what happened to Jones in the olympics. .

[BANKY]

Was Dariuz willing to come to the U.S. to fight Roy? No. From fights I've seen, Dariuz didnt want to leave his backyard and for a very good reason. Dariuz got quite a few hometown, and gift decisions. Gonzales beat him bad enough that he couldnt be denied. I wouldnt go over there if I were Jones either, look at what happened to Jones in the olympics. .
I understand that, but if darius didn't want to come here and jones didn't want to go over their, then ultimately, its the man with the bigger legacy that is more tarnished in all of this. You say, noone knew who darius was. Well, if you watched roy's fights, you knew who he was cause they mentioned him incessantly. If roy was so great, he could have went over there and ktfo of darius.

I gotta admit, this is a great convo, its nice to talk up the old rivalries, as if they were still relevant today. They kinda are, especially with the whole joe C thing.

[korey1980]

I understand that, but if darius didn't want to come here and jones didn't want to go over their, then ultimately, its the man with the bigger legacy that is more tarnished in all of this. You say, noone knew who darius was. Well, if you watched roy's fights, you knew who he was cause they mentioned him incessantly. If roy was so great, he could have went over there and ktfo of darius.

I gotta admit, this is a great convo, its nice to talk up the old rivalries, as if they were still relevant today. They kinda are, especially with the whole joe C thing.

Dont get me wrong, alot of people knew who Darius was, he just never got as much attention as Jones. I can agree that Jones deserves some criticism for some guys he fought, and guys he didnt try hard enough to get a fight with. But people(not you) that say Jones never fought tough competition throughout his career are wrong. He fought Hopkins(wasnt all that well known at the time), then Toney(regarded as top p4p at the time, Virgil Hill(hall of famer. destroyed by a perfect body shot from Jones), Clinton Woods(good fighter that held a title after he got beat by Jones), Eric Harding(beat Tarver & broke his jaw), just to name few. It swings both ways, and Jones deserves less criticism than praise for his accomplishments in the ring.

On a sidenote, what do you think will become of Andre Ward? He reminds me of a young Jones with a better jab, but his chin is questionable even with the low level of competition hes been in with. I like him though.