Abraham vs. Miranda 2

[Goodfella2279]

I'm really looking forward to this fight. Just saw the first one again on Monday night and their styles make for a good fight. I think the fight would have been even better had Abraham not broken his jaw. But it was a really good fight nonetheless. Not sure about the scorecards. I don't have a problem with Abraham winning the fight, but the wide margin on the cards was a bit much.

Anyway, who do you guys like in this fight and why? I'm going with Abraham. I really enjoy watching Miranda fight, but he's a bit wild and I think that Abraham's counterpunching is going to make the difference. I'm picking Abraham by UD and then him calling out Pavlik shortly after.

[korey1980]

I'm really looking forward to this fight. Just saw the first one again on Monday night and their styles make for a good fight. I think the fight would have been even better had Abraham not broken his jaw. But it was a really good fight nonetheless. Not sure about the scorecards. I don't have a problem with Abraham winning the fight, but the wide margin on the cards was a bit much.

Anyway, who do you guys like in this fight and why? I'm going with Abraham. I really enjoy watching Miranda fight, but he's a bit wild and I think that Abraham's counterpunching is going to make the difference. I'm picking Abraham by UD and then him calling out Pavlik shortly after.

I'm gonna go with Abraham. I cant stand Miranda's personality. He shouldnt be so arrogant. It was pretty cool when Pavlik ko'd him. I hope Abraham does the same thing, and shuts him up for good. Not really sure who is going to win this fight. Abraham definitely showed alot of heart in their last encounter though. Thats why I'm pulling for him.

[korey1980]

Kinda sucks that there are 3 events Saturday night, all going on at approximately the same time. The ultimate fighter finale on spike, HBO boxing, and fights on Showtime. It's annoying going back and forth between 3 channels. Wonder if any of them re-air Sunday.

[Goodfella2279]

Got 3 letters for you. DVR. Best investment I've ever made. I know, this weekend is sick. Too much stuff to watch. I'm probably going to watch the Miranda-Abraham fight live on a seperate T.V. and then record the Ultimate Fighter Finale and the Berto Fight and watch them after. Looks like I'm gonna be up till 4 a.m. watching fights. Can't think of a better way to spend a Saturday night. But I do agree that I would like to see the events spread out a bit. Like, have one of the events next week so we have something to look forward to next weekend. Still, can't complain. It's a fight fan's dream weekend.

[Goodfella2279]

Oh, if you have digital cable and get multiple HBO's or Showtimes, they reair on Sunday. If you have only 1 HBO, they might reair their fight on Monday or Tuesday. Not really sure. Depends on the fight.

[korey1980]

Got 3 letters for you. DVR. Best investment I've ever made. I know, this weekend is sick. Too much stuff to watch. I'm probably going to watch the Miranda-Abraham fight live on a seperate T.V. and then record the Ultimate Fighter Finale and the Berto Fight and watch them after. Looks like I'm gonna be up till 4 a.m. watching fights. Can't think of a better way to spend a Saturday night. But I do agree that I would like to see the events spread out a bit. Like, have one of the events next week so we have something to look forward to next weekend. Still, can't complain. It's a fight fan's dream weekend.

I know, I'm loving the fight schedule recently. Seems like the ufc is making a point to scedule events on the same night as boxing. Oh well. Cant complain. I definitely do need to get dvr. I cant wait to see Berto become a champ. Is Berto the main event? Hope the main events dont start the same time. They usually dont, so I should be good. I love weekends like this, where I stay out of the bars to watch fights. Saves me alot of money.

[BANKY]

Gotta say, Miranda will win this fight. Their was a lot of back and forth in the first one, but i think Miranda will be able to pull it out without the biased referee.

I got a DVR(TIVO) and i will be recording everything too. I'm gonna watch miranda vs abraham and watch the other fights later. The berto fight is a joke. Miki Rodriguez has almost no shot to win. The one i really want to see is the witherspoon vs Arreola fight. First dangerous fight for either guy. Winner becomes a contender, loser becomes a pretender. I got a suspicion that Arreola is gonna beat the holy hell out of witherspoon.

[Goodfella2279]

I like Arreola and hope he looks impressive. It's an interesting fight because Witherspoon is undefeated also, but this is going to be the first true test for both guys. I love the way Arreola fights but I've read some articles that call his work ethic into question, saying that he doesn't always train hard for every fight. So that worries me but if he continues to work hard, I think he's talented enough to make some noise. I just want to see a good, exciting heavyweight that will add to the division. Outside of Klictchko (who looked horrible in his last fight) and Peter, there's really no one I'm that interested in in the heavyweight division. I'm interested to see how David Haye does, but the guy has a questionable chin and going into the heavyweight division, that could be a problem. Looked great against Enzo, though.

As far as Berto goes, I also think he's gonna k.o. Rodriguez early but I enjoy just watching Berto fight. He's got a lot of potential and I would love to see him in with the best of the division. But yeah, it's a showcase fight for Berto and he gets a title out of it. Sounds like a good night of work to me.

[korey1980]

I like Arreola and hope he looks impressive. It's an interesting fight because Witherspoon is undefeated also, but this is going to be the first true test for both guys. I love the way Arreola fights but I've read some articles that call his work ethic into question, saying that he doesn't always train hard for every fight. So that worries me but if he continues to work hard, I think he's talented enough to make some noise. I just want to see a good, exciting heavyweight that will add to the division. Outside of Klictchko (who looked horrible in his last fight) and Peter, there's really no one I'm that interested in in the heavyweight division. I'm interested to see how David Haye does, but the guy has a questionable chin and going into the heavyweight division, that could be a problem. Looked great against Enzo, though.

As far as Berto goes, I also think he's gonna k.o. Rodriguez early but I enjoy just watching Berto fight. He's got a lot of potential and I would love to see him in with the best of the division. But yeah, it's a showcase fight for Berto and he gets a title out of it. Sounds like a good night of work to me.

Berto is pretty good. I dont know how long he's gonna hold his title at welter though. He doesnt show very good head movement. He's been taking more shots since he has started fighting a higher level of opposition. The welterweight division is the most stacked division, by far. How do you guys think he will do against the top welters?

[Goodfella2279]

Good point about Berto. I see Berto doing fairly well but not beating guys like Cotto or Margarito. I also think he would get beaten soundly by Mayweather if he wasn't retired. I'd be interested to see Berto fight a guy like Judah, or Mosely in a year or so, because to me those guys are very good fighters but aren't the same fighters they were earlier in their career at lighter weight classes. To me, if he can get past a Judah or Mosely, then I say let him at a top tier guy like Cotto. But it's such a great division that it's gonna be tough. The problem in analyzing Berto is that he's still young and inexperienced against upper echelon opposition. We don't know how he would handle being in a big fight. To be honest, he doesn't have a whole lot of names on his record but he's still young. I even think a guy like Paul Williams would be an interesting fight but he would give Berto all kinds of problems. He's got a bright future but if I'm looking at him right now, he wouldn't beat the top tier guys. A few years of seasoning, though, and he could be something special. We shall see.

[King-Of-Kings]

I thought miranda won the first fight, the sad thing was that the ref didnt allow MIRANDA to capitalize on abraham when he had him hurt. Ref was totally on abrahams side, and this time around i think miranda just murders abraham.

[Goodfella2279]

The ref was pretty bad in the first fight. He was deducting points for borderline punches and basically Miranda was behind the eight ball the entire fight. But I still believe that Abraham has better counterpunching and that will make the difference in the fight. I do like Miranda and enjoy his take no prisoners way of fighting. I just hope it's a exciting fight.

[Immortal Ace]

Wow, Abraham TKO'ed Edison in round 4.

[pipioz]

Ownage !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[korey1980]

Hopefully, Pavlik vs Abraham will be made. I dont see any reason it wont.

[rayratchet]

CO-SIGN what he said ^^^^^

oh yea MIRANDA CAREER is OVER unless he decides to come down in weight ASAP if NOT "IT'S CURTAINS" DUTCH!!

[Goodfella2279]

All I have to say is wow. Abraham may just be for real.

[BANKY]

Marquez vs Lorenzo- Lorenzo looked good initially, didn't he? Hand speed, footwork. He ran from Marquez the bulk of the time. I particularly loved it when Raul would put his hands down and stand in the center of the ring just waiting for lorenzo to quit running. And lorenzo still would have gotten a draw from the judges if not for the point deduction. What about what lorenzo was doing is considered boxing? All he did was run and never once pressed the action. Isn't that worth something? When the action was inititated, it seemed Marquez won 70 to 80 percent of the time. Either way, i think Marquez easily won 8 or 9 rounds of this fight.

Miranda vs abraham- Miranda was throwing and not a lot coming back from abraham initially. But in the middle of the third, the well placed counters started. Even then, Abraham's punches still looked pretty wide. What i liked about abraham is that he would put both gloves up to play defense and take the punches off his arm, instead of rolling, so that he would be in good position to counter and with accuracy, even with his wide punches. The punch he hurt miranda with was a straight short right. The second punch was the widest left hook i think i have ever seen. Then the third literally bounced off his collarbone, but miranda just didn't have the legs at that point. Oh well, great win for Artwah, if i was him, id want nothing to do with pavlik. He's taller, throws straighter shots and has longer reach and a much better chin than miranda. God Bless for fighters like abraham that aren't wusses. Even Miranda, too bad he can't back up that mouth of his.

Arreola-witherspoon-or as i like to call them, surrounding nipple tissue vs chazz-----Went how i expected. In watching witherspoon prior to this, i knew his defense and chin was a little suspect. In watching arreola earlier, i wondered whether he could evade enough shots from a premier HW to land his own. He did. Although, it was a big step up for Chazz, i think Arreola has faced a little bit tougher competition than Chazz before. Well, Arreola walked through him, good job.
I look for arreola to challenge a Eddie Chambers, povetkin type in the next year. IN the next 12 months, we'll forget about chazz, as he will be relegated to stepping stone status. We'll all be hoping that arreola pulls off an upset of a much more talented fighter, who doesn't have his heart. Fact is, i don't think there are alot of guys in his division with his heart. He is mexican, ya know.
Berto-Mikki--------Yeah, berto, he was throwing a ton. He fights the way i wish may did. Not afraid to take chances and get hit while throwing his own combos and blows. As it is, i think he will be handled by the elite of the division because the upper tier guys can take a punch and will make him pay(and by pay, im not talking about them little loopy punches that mikki aka the mexican elvis, threw). I think marg and cotto would both own berto, because they would simply punch too hard. IN berto's next fight, i would like to see him take a real step up in class, its time. You can't win a world title and pull a Joe Calzaghe in this country, the fans won't usually let you, unless your name is roy jones or floyd. So, that means, loser of cotto marg, Pwill, cintron, clottey, Judah, mosley. And if he doesn't fight one of them, he's fooling himself.

[BANKY]

CO-SIGN what he said ^^^^^

oh yea MIRANDA CAREER is OVER unless he decides to come down in weight ASAP if NOT "IT'S CURTAINS" DUTCH!!
lmao, you know nothing about boxing.

[rayratchet]

and i'm sure YOU know everything;) where would be with out the expertise of banky

[korey1980]

Marquez vs Lorenzo- Lorenzo looked good initially, didn't he? Hand speed, footwork. He ran from Marquez the bulk of the time. I particularly loved it when Raul would put his hands down and stand in the center of the ring just waiting for lorenzo to quit running. And lorenzo still would have gotten a draw from the judges if not for the point deduction. What about what lorenzo was doing is considered boxing? All he did was run and never once pressed the action. Isn't that worth something? When the action was inititated, it seemed Marquez won 70 to 80 percent of the time. Either way, i think Marquez easily won 8 or 9 rounds of this fight.

Miranda vs abraham- Miranda was throwing and not a lot coming back from abraham initially. But in the middle of the third, the well placed counters started. Even then, Abraham's punches still looked pretty wide. What i liked about abraham is that he would put both gloves up to play defense and take the punches off his arm, instead of rolling, so that he would be in good position to counter and with accuracy, even with his wide punches. The punch he hurt miranda with was a straight short right. The second punch was the widest left hook i think i have ever seen. Then the third literally bounced off his collarbone, but miranda just didn't have the legs at that point. Oh well, great win for Artwah, if i was him, id want nothing to do with pavlik. He's taller, throws straighter shots and has longer reach and a much better chin than miranda. God Bless for fighters like abraham that aren't wusses. Even Miranda, too bad he can't back up that mouth of his.

Arreola-witherspoon-or as i like to call them, surrounding nipple tissue vs chazz-----Went how i expected. In watching witherspoon prior to this, i knew his defense and chin was a little suspect. In watching arreola earlier, i wondered whether he could evade enough shots from a premier HW to land his own. He did. Although, it was a big step up for Chazz, i think Arreola has faced a little bit tougher competition than Chazz before. Well, Arreola walked through him, good job.
I look for arreola to challenge a Eddie Chambers, povetkin type in the next year. IN the next 12 months, we'll forget about chazz, as he will be relegated to stepping stone status. We'll all be hoping that arreola pulls off an upset of a much more talented fighter, who doesn't have his heart. Fact is, i don't think there are alot of guys in his division with his heart. He is mexican, ya know.
Berto-Mikki--------Yeah, berto, he was throwing a ton. He fights the way i wish may did. Not afraid to take chances and get hit while throwing his own combos and blows. As it is, i think he will be handled by the elite of the division because the upper tier guys can take a punch and will make him pay(and by pay, im not talking about them little loopy punches that mikki aka the mexican elvis, threw). I think marg and cotto would both own berto, because they would simply punch too hard. IN berto's next fight, i would like to see him take a real step up in class, its time. You can't win a world title and pull a Joe Calzaghe in this country, the fans won't usually let you, unless your name is roy jones or floyd. So, that means, loser of cotto marg, Pwill, cintron, clottey, Judah, mosley. And if he doesn't fight one of them, he's fooling himself.


I agree with pretty much everything you said, besides that you say Abraham should want nothing to do with Pavlik. I think Abraham is ver strong at middleweight, and is a good counter-puncher. Kelly will not be able to push Arhur around, and I dont know how easy it is for Kelly to make 160 pounds anymore. I dont know how hes making it now, the dudes 6'3, thats crazy. I hope if the does take place, its at the middleweight limit, cuz I'm sick of all this catchweight bs. Anyways, I think Abraham will give Kelly probems because he is a natural counter puncher, and I dont think Kelly has seen that yet. It could be an advantage for him as well, because it will allow him to outwork Arthur. Either way, I'm a fan of Abraham's courage, and overall character right now(not saying Kelly isnt a stand up kind of guy,because he is), which is why I will go with him(Arthur) when the fight happens.

[korey1980]

You can't win a world title and pull a Joe Calzaghe in this country, the fans won't usually let you, unless your name is roy jones or floyd.

What does this mean?

[rayratchet]

it DOESN'T mean anything just some INCOHERENT TALK from a guy who is a HATER probably because he himself has NO ATHLETIC ABILITY don't take my word for it just look at his AVATAR you can tell he's been called a LOT of things in his LIFE TIME EXCEPT for a WINNER ;) I tried being nice i'm DONE with that :D

[korey1980]

Everybody needs to settle down, and quit with the "personal" trash talking. Just put each other on the ignore list. You guys dont even need to read each others posts.

[rayratchet]

look at my POST I tried that already he keeps bringing my name up just check any of his recent post in various threads there's ONLY so long i'm sit by and let him slide

[korey1980]

Just doesnt even seem worth it to me anymore, all it does is close threads, and get people banned.

[rayratchet]

correction it just gets ME BANNED he mouths OFF all he wants

[korey1980]

Its cuz you guys carry on long enough that you start making threats. Just let it slide, it doesnt need to get that personal.

[rayratchet]

Korey I DON'T know how YOU were raised but when some1 calls me an idiot it's personal that's just how it is WHY should I let him him think it's OK to say whatever he wants
about me ??? :noagree: can't do it if he keeps trying to disrespect me i'm will continue to get in to it with him i'll stop when he stops plain & simple:D

[warp]

What does this mean?

Aka you can't defend your title against stiffs. Because you know Floyd and Jones defended against so many easy oppnenots :rolleyes:

Granted they took a couple easy fights, their resumes are fantastic at the weight they decided to mainly fight at. Floyd was great at 130 (whether you criticze his opposition else where is a different story) and Jones' competition was pretty good at 175 also minus that NYPD cop

[korey1980]

Aka you can't defend your title against stiffs. Because you know Floyd and Jones defended against so many easy oppnenots :rolleyes:

Granted they took a couple easy fights, their resumes are fantastic at the weight they decided to mainly fight at. Floyd was great at 130 (whether you criticze his opposition else where is a different story) and Jones' competition was pretty good at 175 also minus that NYPD cop

Banky, how many past and present world champions has Jones faught? Jones' resume isnt perfect, but his competition was limited at light heavyweight. Either way, Jones' resume makes your boy Margarito's look like dirt. Margarito beat Cintron, thats it. Jones was the man, at 160,168, and 175. Fighter of the decade(1990's), he didnt suffer a "true" defeat until he was past his best(almost 14 years into his career).

[korey1980]

Heres an interesting fact. In Margarito's 23rd fight he was up against the legend Efrain Munoz(0-10-1). Guess what Jones was up to in his 23rd fight, nothing big, just beating the brakes off of Bernard Hopkins for the middleweight title. Who fights the stiffs?

[Goodfella2279]

Nice point Korey. I think every fighter fights stiffs in their career. Its how they do in the big fights that matters. I mean, Joe Louis had the bum of the month club, but when it counted he came up big in fights with Braddock, Baer, Schmeling (2nd time), etc. As long as a fighter is willing to take on all comers, I don't have a problem with them fighting stiffs from time to time. Margarito tried to get a big fight for a very long time and was constantly being ducked and dodged by a lot of the top fighters in the division, so he had to take the fights that were availiable to him. Now he has a great opportunity with one of the best in the division. What I have a problem with is the fighters that have the opportunity to fight the best and choose not to, such as Mayweather "retiring" instead of facing the best availiable.

[korey1980]

Nice point Korey. I think every fighter fights stiffs in their career. Its how they do in the big fights that matters. I mean, Joe Louis had the bum of the month club, but when it counted he came up big in fights with Braddock, Baer, Schmeling (2nd time), etc. As long as a fighter is willing to take on all comers, I don't have a problem with them fighting stiffs from time to time. Margarito tried to get a big fight for a very long time and was constantly being ducked and dodged by a lot of the top fighters in the division, so he had to take the fights that were availiable to him. Now he has a great opportunity with one of the best in the division. What I have a problem with is the fighters that have the opportunity to fight the best and choose not to, such as Mayweather "retiring" instead of facing the best availiable.

Agreed! Every fighter has moments in their careers when they are questioned for the level of opposition they are fighting. Jones fought a few fighters that werent on his level, but at the time, who was? Mayweather retired before he takes on the best fighters in his division, thats bs. I dont think he's truly done yet(imo), but we'll see.

[BANKY]

Agreed! Every fighter has moments in their careers when they are questioned for the level of opposition they are fighting. Jones fought a few fighters that werent on his level, but at the time, who was? Mayweather retired before he takes on the best fighters in his division, thats bs. I dont think he's truly done yet(imo), but we'll see.
or like roy never facing sven, darius, joe c, a real hw not named ruiz, toney rematch, you know, dangerous fighters. hell, he ducked tarver for how long. What is funny is that everyone wants to revise and say, well, roy fought all the good guys, no he didn't. not even close. Floyd, at 130 was supposed to be great, no he isn't. He never fought johnston, or that other lame champ, whateve his name is, i can't remember it right now. he only fought genaro. At the lighter weights, there are more guys than at welterweight that he should have fought. Why do we continue to revise and defend for this guy. Look, if you wanna believe that he did the best he could, fine, im not gonna take you off your opinion. But don't get mad at me or patronize me when i tell you that imo, neither floyd nor roy did what they should have. They got the most out of putting out the very least. Its sad that we as boxing fans have come to expect that and make excuses for it. I won't.

Warp had it right, but he should have left the rolling eyes out of it. It's all a matter of conjecture, but seriously, nobody has gotten more out of less than those three guys, joec, roy, floyd.
Say what you will about margarito as well, but the truth is that margarito has been ducked and he takes chances. Roy didn't fight anyone that had a legitimate chance to beat him for years. We watched him on HBO take on mando after mando, while hbo paid him to do it. horrible. I just don't care for that. It's taking money out of the fight game as a whole because of their greed. They don't care about the guy under them, they care about themselves and themselves only.

Lastly, ratchet, go ahead and keep talking, there is a reason that you get banned and i do not. It's called common decency. I have it, you don't. When you make it personal, I can step away, whilst you leave 6 messages arguing with someone else about how you can't just let it go anymore. Then you have the gall to try to make fun of my pic, yet you won't even post yours. I wouldn't if i was you. You see, im a 30 year old man, I go to fights, I take my kids, I show them respect and how to respect other people, I show them the intricacies of the game, i show them how to write in english, i teach them to respect their elders, i teach them to respect other people's opiinions, i let them understand the IMPORTANCE of tact, and how to apologize when you make a mistake.

Do you know any of those things? You have shown me none of it. Do yourself a favor and leave our conversations, hell, leave the board. You don't have one good thing to say about the game, you are constantly trolling, being rude to people, you don't know much about boxing, keep wanting to give people your address for a good ol fashion beatdown, talk about how i call you an idiot(where i told chadness that you were every bad thing he could think of?). Seriously, you should just bounce. Be done with yourself. If you try to get smart with me, i'll just leave you to your devices and let you make yourself look like an IDIOT and get yourself banned, again.
Leave it to you to not be accountable for what YOU type and then blame everyone else for your childish behavior. Your reputation precedes you, sdot.

[BANKY]

Aka you can't defend your title against stiffs. Because you know Floyd and Jones defended against so many easy oppnenots :rolleyes:

Granted they took a couple easy fights, their resumes are fantastic at the weight they decided to mainly fight at. Floyd was great at 130 (whether you criticze his opposition else where is a different story) and Jones' competition was pretty good at 175 also minus that NYPD cop
It always amazes me bro, you know a lot about boxing and come off that way. Same for a couple other guys on this board. Even when im being facetious, you knew exactly what it was about. We've disagreed before, but i think that these guys are incredibly protected. More out of less than anyone.

Hey warp, where are you actually from bro? Are you in the northern cali area at all? If you are, we should go to some fights. remember deezy, i think him and I and erikk off the boxing bb are going to the fights in sacramento. I got all the free tickets i can get, if you want to go, though im not even sure were you are at. korey, goodfella, we are the only ones that chat here, where are you guys located? Erik and i have gone to the fights before, but this will be first time deezy shows up, if he does. Anyways, if you guys are interested, holler at me. We can argue about dancers and maulers while actually watching someone get their face planted, makes the arguments that much better.

[korey1980]

or like roy never facing sven, darius, joe c, a real hw not named ruiz, toney rematch, you know, dangerous fighters. hell, he ducked tarver for how long. What is funny is that everyone wants to revise and say, well, roy fought all the good guys, no he didn't. not even close. Floyd, at 130 was supposed to be great, no he isn't. He never fought johnston, or that other lame champ, whateve his name is, i can't remember it right now. he only fought genaro. At the lighter weights, there are more guys than at welterweight that he should have fought. Why do we continue to revise and defend for this guy. Look, if you wanna believe that he did the best he could, fine, im not gonna take you off your opinion. But don't get mad at me or patronize me when i tell you that imo, neither floyd nor roy did what they should have. They got the most out of putting out the very least. Its sad that we as boxing fans have come to expect that and make excuses for it. I won't.

Warp had it right, but he should have left the rolling eyes out of it. It's all a matter of conjecture, but seriously, nobody has gotten more out of less than those three guys, joec, roy, floyd.
Say what you will about margarito as well, but the truth is that margarito has been ducked and he takes chances. Roy didn't fight anyone that had a legitimate chance to beat him for years. We watched him on HBO take on mando after mando, while hbo paid him to do it. horrible. I just don't care for that. It's taking money out of the fight game as a whole because of their greed. They don't care about the guy under them, they care about themselves and themselves only.

Lastly, ratchet, go ahead and keep talking, there is a reason that you get banned and i do not. It's called common decency. I have it, you don't. When you make it personal, I can step away, whilst you leave 6 messages arguing with someone else about how you can't just let it go anymore. Then you have the gall to try to make fun of my pic, yet you won't even post yours. I wouldn't if i was you. You see, im a 30 year old man, I go to fights, I take my kids, I show them respect and how to respect other people, I show them the intricacies of the game, i show them how to write in english, i teach them to respect their elders, i teach them to respect other people's opiinions, i let them understand the IMPORTANCE of tact, and how to apologize when you make a mistake.

Do you know any of those things? You have shown me none of it. Do yourself a favor and leave our conversations, hell, leave the board. You don't have one good thing to say about the game, you are constantly trolling, being rude to people, you don't know much about boxing, keep wanting to give people your address for a good ol fashion beatdown, talk about how i call you an idiot(where i told chadness that you were every bad thing he could think of?). Seriously, you should just bounce. Be done with yourself. If you try to get smart with me, i'll just leave you to your devices and let you make yourself look like an IDIOT and get yourself banned, again.
Leave it to you to not be accountable for what YOU type and then blame everyone else for your childish behavior. Your reputation precedes you, sdot.

Roy didnt duck Tarver. Tarver lost to Harding, thus losing his shot at Jones for the time being. Jones fought Harding in Hardings following fight. How is that ducking Tarver? Tarver lost, Jones moved up in weight, then came back down after Tarver proved himself by erasing his loss to Harding. I dont see anything wrong with the way it worked out. James Toney ate himself out of another shot at Jones, plus lost his two next fights to Montell Griffin, who Jones then fought at light heavyweight. Toney didnt get ducked, the fight just didnt make sense because Toney lost, so Jones fought who beat him. Screw those European guys you mentioned because they didnt want to come here, so Jones didnt want to go fight in their country.

[rayratchet]

Advantage Korey:D

[BANKY]

Roy didnt duck Tarver. Tarver lost to Harding, thus losing his shot at Jones for the time being. Jones fought Harding in Hardings following fight. How is that ducking Tarver? Tarver lost, Jones moved up in weight, then came back down after Tarver proved himself by erasing his loss to Harding. I dont see anything wrong with the way it worked out. James Toney ate himself out of another shot at Jones, plus lost his two next fights to Montell Griffin, who Jones then fought at light heavyweight. Toney didnt get ducked, the fight just didnt make sense because Toney lost, so Jones fought who beat him. Screw those European guys you mentioned because they didnt want to come here, so Jones didnt want to go fight in their country.
so, since sven didn't want to come here and ended up undefeated, do you hold him in the same high esteem. Do you give him a pass for not wanting to come here, because roy didn't wanna go their? Tarver may have lost, but he waited for two years before that, tarver is older than roy, korey. As for Toney, at middle weight, yeah, he didn't get the shot, but at light heavy, when james was passing through, roy wanted nothing to do with him.. There are two sides to every story.

[korey1980]

so, since sven didn't want to come here and ended up undefeated, do you hold him in the same high esteem. Do you give him a pass for not wanting to come here, because roy didn't wanna go their? Tarver may have lost, but he waited for two years before that, tarver is older than roy, korey. As for Toney, at middle weight, yeah, he didn't get the shot, but at light heavy, when james was passing through, roy wanted nothing to do with him.. There are two sides to every story.

Sven can have his pass, and its understandable(to me) why the fight didnt take place. Tarver didnt turn pro till 97, Jones 89, so the age dont mean a thing. Tarver was only 19 fights into his pro career, and hadnt proved himself to be a top guy when he lost to Harding. Can you blame Jones for not fighting Tarver at that time? There are two sides to every story, but Toney lost twice at light heavy to Griffin, so why would Roy want to fight Toney, and not the only other person Toney had lost to(Griffin)? It doesnt seem like he took a softer touch by fighting Griffin, and not Toney. Does it?

[BANKY]

Sven can have his pass, and its understandable(to me) why the fight didnt take place. Tarver didnt turn pro till 97, Jones 89, so the age dont mean a thing. Tarver was only 19 fights into his pro career, and hadnt proved himself to be a top guy when he lost to Harding. Can you blame Jones for not fighting Tarver at that time? There are two sides to every story, but Toney lost twice at light heavy to Griffin, so why would Roy want to fight Toney, and not the only other person Toney had lost to(Griffin)? It doesnt seem like he took a softer touch by fighting Griffin, and not Toney. Does it?
ok, what about fighting ruiz and calling himself HW champ? How does that sit with you?
Besides, i saw the first fight with Griffin, Toney won that fight. ONe judge had it a draw and the other two had it terribly close. I won't say robbery, but the only reason griffin won was because he was the up and comer at the time, imo. Besides, little know fact about roy vs. montell at the time of the stoppage in the first fight, montell was down 1 point on 2 cards and up 1 point on another. Yes, he knocked him out in the rematch, but it doesn't take away anything from the fighter that montell was and to say that james didn't deserve a rematch because he lost a tough contest to montell is pretty shoddy. james didn't lose a second match to the guy until almost two years later, because surprise, roy didn't wanna fight him, so he was forced to fight montell again, while roy was fighting Bryant Brannon, who? and Mike Mccallum(actually not a bad fighter, but definitely no james toney). When james lost that fight, he took montell and ended up losing on that DQ. What im saying is that if James was a slouch, why not just rematch him and then quell all doubters, instead of fighting lou del valle, otis griffin, richard frazier. James was till better than all of those fighters. If roy was so awesome, why not go overseas and just knock those guys out?
It doesn't stand up korey.

you don't beat up hanshaw(overweight middleweight), tito(blown up welter), and the prince(some guy that sucks) and think you are back. I just call them how i see them. I know jones was talented and it irks me to no end that he didn't do what he could when he could with his talent.

[korey1980]

I remember Jones vs Griffin 1, and yes, it was a close fight. However no one can doubt that Jones was on his way to stoppin him. And as far as Jones at hw, think Jones 1 fight at hw could be erased completelu, and it would not hurt his legacy at all.

[rayratchet]

NOT to mention RJJR originally WANTED HOLYFIELD & it was JONES father that didn't want him to fight Evander which led to a Falling between them for a while which then led to RJJR WASHIN the guy that BEAT UP the WARRIOR:D

[BANKY]

NOT to mention RJJR originally WANTED HOLYFIELD & it was JONES father that didn't want him to fight Evander which led to a Falling between them for a while which then led to RJJR WASHIN the guy that BEAT UP the WARRIOR:D
holy at that age was no better than ruiz.

he should have called lennox out if he wanted to call himself HW champ. I realize the disparity in size between them, but if roy really wanted to call himself HW champ, that's what he would have done.

[rayratchet]

I hear what ur saying but fact of the matter is ruiz was looked at as a LEGIT HW when he beat EVANDER right....and ROY beat him now yes a VICTORY over Lennox would definitely be MORE NOTE WORTHY but at the same time we WITNESSED a Middle Weight go up and WIN over a LEGIT HW for a WORLD TITTLE and you can't DOWN PLAY that

[BANKY]

It was Ruiz, if you don't downplay it, then you buy right into the hype. The truth is that Ruiz would get handled by most of the world class hw that ever lived. Fact.

[rayratchet]

see now YOU making up stuff your opinion is NOT a FACT now that's a FACT you CAN'T say that he would lose is a FACT come on NOW what I have stated are all FACTS let's keep it FACTUAL ;)


FACT is what RJJR has accomplished is INCREDIBLY RARE & DIFFICULT & if it wasn't more people would have accomplished it FACT WE WERE IN THE PRESENCE OF GREATNESS whether YOU REALIZE it or NOT:cool:

[korey1980]

ok, what about fighting ruiz and calling himself HW champ? How does that sit with you?
Besides, i saw the first fight with Griffin, Toney won that fight. ONe judge had it a draw and the other two had it terribly close. I won't say robbery, but the only reason griffin won was because he was the up and comer at the time, imo. Besides, little know fact about roy vs. montell at the time of the stoppage in the first fight, montell was down 1 point on 2 cards and up 1 point on another. Yes, he knocked him out in the rematch, but it doesn't take away anything from the fighter that montell was and to say that james didn't deserve a rematch because he lost a tough contest to montell is pretty shoddy. james didn't lose a second match to the guy until almost two years later, because surprise, roy didn't wanna fight him, so he was forced to fight montell again, while roy was fighting Bryant Brannon, who? and Mike Mccallum(actually not a bad fighter, but definitely no james toney). When james lost that fight, he took montell and ended up losing on that DQ. What im saying is that if James was a slouch, why not just rematch him and then quell all doubters, instead of fighting lou del valle, otis griffin, richard frazier. James was till better than all of those fighters. If roy was so awesome, why not go overseas and just knock those guys out?
It doesn't stand up korey.

you don't beat up hanshaw(overweight middleweight), tito(blown up welter), and the prince(some guy that sucks) and think you are back. I just call them how i see them. I know jones was talented and it irks me to no end that he didn't do what he could when he could with his talent.

Mike McCallum is great fighter, but was past his best when he fought Jones. Why didnt Jones go overseas and just kayo them? Because boxers cant rely on kayo's all the time. Jones obviously didnt feel like he needed to prove anything against Toney. Its not like his win over Toney was questionable, so why the need for a rematch? Toney was supposedly weight drained(what a shock), but who's fault is that ?

[korey1980]

holy at that age was no better than ruiz.

he should have called lennox out if he wanted to call himself HW champ. I realize the disparity in size between them, but if roy really wanted to call himself HW champ, that's what he would have done.

Jones did call Lennox out, but Lennox said no, because he was retiring. One right hand from Lennox, and it wouldve been nigh-night time for Jones. No doubting that. Jones is not significant as a heavyweight, because of the fact he was starched by 2 light heavies. Toney has a world class chin so he is able to compeat at that weight.

[rayratchet]

lewis wouldn't have LANDED that RIGHT your talking bout NO WAY

[korey1980]

lewis wouldn't have LANDED that RIGHT your talking bout NO WAY

You're getting ridiculous now, even the ****ty Ruiz tested Jones whiskers multiple times. You forget, this wasnt a prime Jones, its the one who's legs were beginning to fail him.

[rayratchet]

YOU are forgetting that this WOULD'VE been ROY's BIGGEST match of his ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER which means he would have TRAINED & FOCUSED INTENSELY on his strategy which obviously would have been staying away from LEWIS'S right B/C only like RUIZ LENNOX is a pretty BIG PUNCHER but with ROY'S SPEED even at the age their is NOWAY Lennox would be able to cut of the ring and trap the SLICKER RJJR now he might of drop ROY be it WOULDN'T be from that RIGHT

[rayratchet]

it would have been basically Lewis initially trying use his JAB with RJJR being very cautious and looking to land 1punch 2 at most at a time NOT wanting to give Lewis an the time to LOAD UP & land anything BIG if the fight made it to the later rounds which I think would've HAPPEN Lewis would NO DOUBT feel pressure to get rid of the smaller man in DRAMATIC fashion b/c he would either KNOCK ROY OUT or GAS himself in the process which would GIVE ROY the ROPE NEEDED to start to feel comfortable in stringing 2gether some of his COMBOS

[korey1980]

Roy couldnt beat Lennox even in Roys prime. Lewis is 6'5 (5'11 for Jones on a good day)and has and 84 inch reach(73 for Jones), with a phenominal jab, Jones wouldnt be able to even get close without getting popped by a stiff jab, looks like a mismatch, and it is.

[rayratchet]

fam I would have said the same thing about HASSIM NO WAY could he beat Lennox we all KNOW how that turned out & i'm NOT saying that Lennox couldn't BEAT/KO ROY i'm saying if he didn't and they went to the later rounds where STAMINA begin to play a part the man that's in better shape which would be ROY ODDS VASTLY improve STRANGE things occur when you TIRE yourself out it wouldn't be TOO FAR FETCH for arguably the BEST BOXER of that decade for that 1 night to be able TOO make something SPECIAL happen in the BIGGEST fight of his life

[korey1980]

And I'm saying no way could Jones win. Lewis could probably win that fight with his jab alone. Rahman hits hard, thats why he beat Lennox, and he was a natural 230 pounder, Jones is too small to hurt Lewis, so Lewis would talk him down, and destroy him. No contest.

[patientsnake]

Comparing Hasim to Jones is ridiculous. Hasim was at least 3" taller than Jones, and was an actual heavyweight. To say that the Lion wouldn't land a right hand against Jones is just fantasy.

[rayratchet]

well I :noagree: if Lennox doesn't WIn it early I could see him LOSING it LATE :D it's TOO BAD their is NO WAT to ACTUALLY find who would be right :(

[korey1980]

Let it go man. Next topic.

[Chadness]

Lennox Lewis would have blasted Roy Jones. Roy was a great talent, etc. I'm not saying he sucked. He'd just have been blasted out of the ring by Lennox Lewis. Hardly an insult to a natural 168 pound fighter. I don't care how fast you want to remember Roy as... humans don't warp diagnolly. That's why jabs beat speed. Not only that but the great timing (the other killer of speed) on the uppercut and no way does Roy EVER make it inside. Not to mention getting back out and back in for 12 rounds. Just no way.

[korey1980]

Lennox Lewis would have blasted Roy Jones. Roy was a great talent, etc. I'm not saying he sucked. He'd just have been blasted out of the ring by Lennox Lewis. Hardly an insult to a natural 168 pound fighter. I don't care how fast you want to remember Roy as... humans don't warp diagnolly. That's why jabs beat speed. Not only that but the great timing (the other killer of speed) on the uppercut and no way does Roy EVER make it inside. Not to mention getting back out and back in for 12 rounds. Just no way.

Agreed. Roy had trouble getting inside on Tarver all 3 of their fights. Tarver is 3 inches shorter, and has a 7 inch shorter reach. Jones would be kayoed inside of 3 rounds. And this is coming from a guy that owns RJ's career box set. No way Jones could ever beat Lewis, NO WAY.

[rayratchet]

fam I DON'T know who ya'll think ya'll talking too but unless you have FOOTAGE showing Lennox KOing ROY in 3 rds or whatever YOU said you can't tell me that there is 0% chance of ROY winning ya'll be talking as if ya'll word is LAW or something ya'll GUESSING just like me so their is NO WAY you can say i'm WRONG POINT BLANK now we can move on :cool:

[korey1980]

Its like saying Pacman could beat Chad Dawson, it just wouldnt happen, Dawson would just have way too many advantages.

[rayratchet]

don't DISRESPECT ROY like that comparing him to pacman fact is pacman has NEVER FOUGHT/BEAT a LIGHT HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMP RJJR has beaten a HW B4 so it's NOT the same thing just b/c YOU can't see it ROY BEATEN Lennox doesn't mean it couldn't HAPPEN you guys REALLY NEED 2 learn how 2 separate your PERCEPTION from what is ACTUAL FACT:cool:

[patientsnake]

don't DISRESPECT ROY like that comparing him to pacman fact is pacman has NEVER FOUGHT/BEAT a LIGHT HEAVY WEIGHT CHAMP RJJR has beaten a HW B4 so it's NOT the same thing just b/c YOU can't see it ROY BEATEN Lennox doesn't mean it couldn't HAPPEN you guys REALLY NEED 2 learn how 2 separate your PERCEPTION from what is ACTUAL FACT:cool:

Yeah man, we have no way of proving it couldn't happen. Then again, there is no way of proving I couldn't KO Tyson in his prime.

[rayratchet]

YES YES that was EXTREMELY FUNNY:nono: :rolleyes: i'm talking about a PROFESSIONAL fighter who was arguably the BEST in that DECADE who also already DEFEATED a LEGIT HW to Become CHAMP

while your talking some BS about being able to beat IRON MIKE this is NO where near the same thing you comparing oranges & potatoes SERIOUSLY WTF is that :confused:

[patientsnake]

YES YES that was EXTREMELY FUNNY:nono: :rolleyes: i'm talking about a PROFESSIONAL fighter who was arguably the BEST in that DECADE who also already DEFEATED a LEGIT HW to Become CHAMP

while your talking some BS about being able to beat IRON MIKE this is NO where near the same thing you comparing oranges & potatoes SERIOUSLY WTF is that :confused:

He beat Ruiz who is 3" shorter than Lewis, and has a reach that is around 6" shorter. No way he beats Lewis. He had to go to the cards against Ruiz and Lewis's jab would easily earn him a decision over Jones Jr. Give Lewis a little respect. It just wouldn't happen.

I guess I could argue this until I'm blue in the face, and you won't change your mind, but you aren't going to change mine either. It just wouldn't happen.

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[korey1980]

John Ruiz is a bum. Lennox Lewis is no John Ruiz

[King-Of-Kings]

are we talking about lennox lewis prime ? If so and this fight took place at heavyweight then i would favor lewis simply because he has good boxing skills unlike many other heavyweights out there. Roy wouldnt be able to hurt lewis , with that in mind i think lewis would walk jones down with jabs and straight rights just like GLEN JOHNSON did.

Oh well we will never know

[BANKY]

and hence the reason i don't argue with sdot, do we all get it now? If he is gonna be operating under the premise that roy COULD have beat lennox, then can anyone really argue with him.

We have something that says roy would get his face bashed in by lennox, wanna know what its called?

Common Sense.

Sheeesh. What's the point of talking boxing if you have guys making ludicrous statements like roy could beat lennox. Seriously. I can't do it guys. I gotta be more selective with my spots. Sdot doesn't want me to say anything to him, but how can one not when these are the premises of his arguments. I'm done with this thread.

[rayratchet]

WTF is good with Korey is posting the same ISH OVER & OVER & OVER suppose to change my MIND:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: fam how much did that HELP you say Lewis is NO BUM well neither is ROY like I said unless YOU seen some FOOTAGE them FIGHTING that NOBODY else has seen

like KANYE said "YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOTHING":D

[rayratchet]

again my name is RAYRATCHET ok BINKY the SNOTCH aka i'm TELLING yea I did my Homework;) again this is the same guy that BELIEVES PF is ANY GOOD HOW CAN I TAKE ANYTHING YOU SAY SERIOUS after watching you & Fighter claim this would be the BEST thing since SLICED BREAD????

[korey1980]

WTF is good with Korey is posting the same ISH OVER & OVER & OVER suppose to change my MIND:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: fam how much did that HELP you say Lewis is NO BUM well neither is ROY like I said unless YOU seen some FOOTAGE them FIGHTING that NOBODY else has seen

like KANYE said "YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOTHING":D

roy is a light heavyweight not heavyweight, as superior as he was at light heavy, his chin was questionable even against the lighter weight fighters. Sorry bout the triple posts, my computer was having trouble loading my post, well at least I thought it was. Either way, this thread is dead, and I'm out as well.

[BANKY]

roy is a light heavyweight not heavyweight, as superior as he was at light heavy, his chin was questionable even against the lighter weight fighters. Sorry bout the triple posts, my computer was having trouble loading my post, well at least I thought it was. Either way, this thread is dead, and I'm out as well.
Yeah, and you have Sdot, aka the uneducated, the illiterate, the parochial, the whatever you wanna call him, to thank for that. seriously bro, i did my homework too and you are who we thought you were(to paraphrase denny green). You keep trying to convince people that you aren't this or that, but the truth is, you are exactly who we think.

Lastly, that line you quoted from kanye, that is the exact reason that you don't understand reason and want to always argue even when wrong. YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOTHING, sounds like something a child would say.

How about this:
tact is the home of wisdom-Albert Einstein, a real philosopher with words to live by

[BANKY]

again my name is RAYRATCHET ok BINKY the SNOTCH aka i'm TELLING yea I did my Homework;) again this is the same guy that BELIEVES PF is ANY GOOD HOW CAN I TAKE ANYTHING YOU SAY SERIOUS after watching you & Fighter claim this would be the BEST thing since SLICED BREAD????
btw, the game is ok, about as good as fn, without the parries. collision detection issues not withstanding, the game is just ok. find one quote were i said this game was gonna be the best thing since sliced bread. You won't. It's just you, talking out of your *** one more time.

[patientsnake]

Yeah, and you have Sdot, aka the uneducated, the illiterate, the parochial, the whatever you wanna call him, to thank for that. seriously bro, i did my homework too and you are who we thought you were(to paraphrase denny green). You keep trying to convince people that you aren't this or that, but the truth is, you are exactly who we think.

Lastly, that line you quoted from kanye, that is the exact reason that you don't understand reason and want to always argue even when wrong. YOU CAN'T TELL ME NOTHING, sounds like something a child would say.

How about this:
tact is the home of wisdom-Albert Einstein, a real philosopher with words to live by

Oh, I remember Sdot. But Sdot always ended his "points" in an argument with "a wise man once said" followed by some grossly misspelled ramblings that made no sense.

Anyway, I'll follow the leader and be done here as well.

[rayratchet]

TEMPER TEMPER Binky Cursing that's NOT :cool: and I SPIT in the face of people who DON'T wanna be :cool: to paraphrase CARLITO :rotfl: :rotfl: go around quoting dead guys if you want i'll stick to the living ;) like I said their is NO way you can say that a that some 1 with the SKILL & KNOWLEDGE of the SCIENCE such as ROY has 0% shot at BEATING lennox don't take my word go & summon up OL ALBERT :rotfl: & he'll tell YOU the same:D

[Placebo]

And here was me thinking this thread was about Abraham v Miranda.....

My thoughts, good fight, seemed relatively even until Abraham unleashed his fury, Miranda hit him with some good power shots early on but Abraham's defence was superb.

One word for the guy who interviewed them both after the fight, complete and utter wanker! Twice he said to Miranda that he was "completely dominated" which was just garbage, until the last round it was an even fight, and in fact all three judges had him ahead, what a moron, Miranda should have given him a slap, then we'd have seen who was dominated!

[korey1980]

Yeah, I noticed that too. I dont think he even watched the fight(lol). Miranda has no chin. Good exploit by Pavlik.

[Placebo]

I disagree, he took some very hard shots that didn't put him down, just that Abraham got him hurt with the 1st knockdown and then like a good finisher never let him recover, although to be fair Miranda didn't really show much boxing smarts when he was hurt to try to hold on to gain time to recover.

[Goodfella2279]

Hahaha. Jim Grey is the worst post fight interviewer of all time. I can't remember which fight it was, but it ended in some kind of DQ or something and right after the fight he asked the guy "When you got hit in the groin, how did it make you feel?" If I was that guy being interviewed, I would have punched Jim Grey in the groin and said how do you think it felt. I can't stand that guy. They really should get rid of him on the Showtime Boxing broadcasts.:eek:

[korey1980]

No doubt. Does he not think about a good question to ask before he interviews someone? I cant stand Showtime's announcers, period!

[BANKY]

I still remember the time he badgered pete rose during the all star game. for some reason, these journalists like to ask the "tough" questions. Well, that's all fine and dandy, but there is a time and place for everything and Jim Gray's tact reminds me of one of the loser's on this board.

[korey1980]

Hmmmmmm............ Who's that?

[rayratchet]

for real I was :think: the same thing ;)

[rayratchet]

he's gotta give us some more clues cuz right now I can't figure out who he's referring to

[Goodfella2279]

I like Al Bernstein on the Showtime broadcasts, but Steve Albert, with his whiter than white teeth and Mr. Stupid Question Himself, Jim Grey, have to go. Al Bernstein is the only one on the broadcast team that actually knows the sport and gives good insight. The rest of them probably don't even watch boxing outside of when they have to be there doing a telecast. Pretty foul.

[korey1980]

HBO's announcers are still much better. Every one of the announcers knows the sport.

[BANKY]

he's gotta give us some more clues cuz right now I can't figure out who he's referring to
Neither tact nor your skills at deduction have ever been the best. :rolleyes:

[rayratchet]

:rotfl: :rotfl: nice comebaack ;)

[TDEEZY58]

I like Al Bernstein on the Showtime broadcasts, but Steve Albert, with his whiter than white teeth and Mr. Stupid Question Himself, Jim Grey, have to go.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You're forgetting his fake a** South Beach Miami tan everywhere they go.

[King-Of-Kings]

The ref was pretty bad in the first fight. He was deducting points for borderline punches and basically Miranda was behind the eight ball the entire fight. But I still believe that Abraham has better counterpunching and that will make the difference in the fight. I do like Miranda and enjoy his take no prisoners way of fighting. I just hope it's a exciting fight.


good call good fella. Boy I was dead wrong on my prediction, actually thought miranda was gonna murder abraham due to the fact that he was just walking abraham down after he broke his jaw the first fight.

Abraham does have nice counter skills and ring movement with solid punches... Looking forward vs pavlik

[Goodfella2279]

Thanks. To be honest, I was kind of dissapointed that it ended as early as it did. I wanted to see a great back and forth battle, but Abraham was on and his counterpunching was pinpoint and accurate. This fight convinced me that Abraham is legit and would give anyone in the division trouble.