Joe calzague is being smart if he ducks Pavlik

[pipioz]

He is past his prime right now, and Pavlik is @ his best moment, so why would he want to face Pavlik ? Roberto Duran, Ali, Leonard, al those guys are all time greats, and got destroyed for doing that. For example, we all know that a prime Eric Morales would have beaten Pacman 3 out of 3, but instead he lost 2 by KO, for facing a prime fighter when being out of it already.

If I was him I would do the same ;)

[Goodfella2279]

I see your reasoning, but to me it's about his legacy and boxing in general. You never want to hear about boxers ducking anyone, and if Joe does simply because he is afraid of losing his undefeated record, then I have lost quite a bit of respect for him as a fighter and a champion. If he wants to be considered one of the greatest Europeon fighters of all time, he needs the fight with Pavlik. Even if Joe loses that fight, I would still give Joe a ton of credit for taking on one of the best fighters around his division. That's the major problem I have with Mayweather. He doesn't want any piece of Cotto or Margarito, so he quit to avoid fighting them, in my opinion. Now Mayweather has beaten some very good fighters in his career, like Corrales, Hatton, De La Hoya, Castillo, etc. But to me he is still in his relative prime, and a huge fight against the winner of Cotto vs. Margarito makes financial sense as well. For him to bow out makes me think that he's not as confident as he lets on. Now I don't understand why he didn't even go through with the fight with Oscar, which he would probably win. But him retiring and depriving boxing fans of a possible great fight is doing a disservice to boxing. If him, or Joe Calzaghe want to retire then that's fine. But they can't sit there and call themselves the greatest ever if they didn't even fight the best fighters available to them.

[mvrck945]

amen to that Goodfella

[korey1980]

I see your reasoning, but to me it's about his legacy and boxing in general. You never want to hear about boxers ducking anyone, and if Joe does simply because he is afraid of losing his undefeated record, then I have lost quite a bit of respect for him as a fighter and a champion. If he wants to be considered one of the greatest Europeon fighters of all time, he needs the fight with Pavlik. Even if Joe loses that fight, I would still give Joe a ton of credit for taking on one of the best fighters around his division. That's the major problem I have with Mayweather. He doesn't want any piece of Cotto or Margarito, so he quit to avoid fighting them, in my opinion. Now Mayweather has beaten some very good fighters in his career, like Corrales, Hatton, De La Hoya, Castillo, etc. But to me he is still in his relative prime, and a huge fight against the winner of Cotto vs. Margarito makes financial sense as well. For him to bow out makes me think that he's not as confident as he lets on. Now I don't understand why he didn't even go through with the fight with Oscar, which he would probably win. But him retiring and depriving boxing fans of a possible great fight is doing a disservice to boxing. If him, or Joe Calzaghe want to retire then that's fine. But they can't sit there and call themselves the greatest ever if they didn't even fight the best fighters available to them.

Exactly. Legends go out on their shields. And have troubles thinking they are not capable of still beating anyone. Kinda dumb, but very respectable. Its called heart, something Floyd is obviously afraid to test.

[Goodfella2279]

It's just unfortunate that a lot of fighters nowadays care only about their bank accounts and not as much about the sport that gave them those bank accounts, cars, money, etc. That's why I loved fighters like Gatti. Guys that would put it all on the line and fight anybody. He was not a world class fighter, but he was a throwback to those great fighters of yesteryear that would fight anybody and, win or lose, would keep fighting because they love the sport. People can say what they want about De La Hoya, but I give him all the credit in the world for fighting the very best that were around his weight class. He really never ducked hardly anyboy and even though he lost some of those fights, I give him a ton of credit for getting in the ring and not only testing himself against the best, but giving boxing fans big fights to get excited over.

[pipioz]

I agree dude it makes sense. Floyd is scared as hell LOL

[Goodfella2279]

Floyd is a fighter that has the option to be great, but would rather be rich. He cares more about money than he does about his legacy, and that's fine I guess. If that's the only reason he started boxing, then that's on him. I don't know Floyd personally or what makes him tick, so I can't completely hate on him for deciding to retire instead of fighting the best fighters availiable to him. But from a boxing fan's perspective, I think he's done a disservice to the sport and to his legacy by ducking the best availiable to him in order to retire. Boxing needs Mayweather to fight the best, but "Money May" only cares about his bank account. I just wish he realized that he's in a unique position to give back and help the sport that brought him those riches.

[Charlie Murphy]

If Floyd were to fight and beat Paul Williams, Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito he'd definitely go down as one of the greats, right now he doesn't.

[King-Of-Kings]

. For example, we all know that a prime Eric Morales would have beaten Pacman 3 out of 3



Are you sure ?

Just to let you know JOE has been fighting his best he has ever been at 35.

[BANKY]

Are you sure ?

Just to let you know JOE has been fighting his best he has ever been at 35.
ugh, no. trust that we missed out on the best Joe, physically, in his late 20's. Too bad he didn't have the balls then that he does now, lol, won't even take on pavlik.

[TDEEZY58]

How did Mayweather become the topic of Calzaghe thread?

[TDEEZY58]

ugh, no. trust that we missed out on the best Joe, physically, in his late 20's. Too bad he didn't have the balls then that he does now, lol, won't even take on pavlik.


I don't Pavlik was the guy at 160 when Calzaghe was in his 20's. It would have been nice to see B-hop and Calzaghe fighter each other earlier in their careers though.

[korey1980]

I don't Pavlik was the guy at 160 when Calzaghe was in his 20's. It would have been nice to see B-hop and Calzaghe fighter each other earlier in their careers though.

Yeah, even Hopkins at 38-40 wouldve beaten Joe soundly(imo). I for one dont blame Joe for not fighting Kelly right now because there are two weight divisions seperating them right now. Kelly has never even fought at super-middleweight so I dont see any reason he deserves a shot at the light heavyweight champ. If Kelly somehow became the unified super-middle champ tomorrow, I would expect Joe to fight him in his final fight to prove he still owns that division. But, that is simply not the case, so I dont see a reason for that fight to happen.

[TDEEZY58]

Yeah, even Hopkins at 38-40 wouldve beaten Joe soundly(imo). I for one dont blame Joe for not fighting Kelly right now because there are two weight divisions seperating them right now. Kelly has never even fought at super-middleweight so I dont see any reason he deserves a shot at the light heavyweight champ. If Kelly somehow became the unified super-middle champ tomorrow, I would expect Joe to fight him in his final fight to prove he still owns that division. But, that is simply not the case, so I dont see a reason for that fight to happen.

I don't understand where all this "ducking" B.S. came from in the first place. Calzaghe just won the Light Heavy championship and Pavlik is still a fairly new champ at 160. Neither fighter has gotten the chance to dominate their own division and people are already talking about who's ducking who. There are a host of fighters at 173 that would give Joe a run i.e. Jones, Johsnon, Dawson, and Tarver. That's 4 legit fights for Calzaghe. For Pavlik there's Sturm, Abraham, and you could even throw Winky's name in there. So there's 3 for Pavlik. People use the term ducking waaaaaaaaaaay too loosely these days.

[korey1980]

Agreed. Joe aint duckin Kelly. Kelly is the dominant champ at middleweight where Joe has never fought before. If Kelly wouldve started his career at super middle, and been as successful as he is at middle, the fight with Joe probably wouldve already happened. Its not like Kelly couldnt hold an extra 8 pounds. But now Joe is no longer a super middle, and Kelly is still fighting at middle, so who can really blame Joe for not fighting Kelly?

[Goodfella2279]

I agree that maybe ducking is too strong a word to use regarding Calzaghe not fighting Pavlik and fighting Jones. I think the frustration for many boxing fans is that right now, Pavlik is more relevant and more highly regarded than Jones (except casual boxing fans who see only the name Roy Jones and assume we are talking about the fighter from the 90's / early 2000's.) Jones is a legend and all time great, so I don't fault Joe for wanting to fight him. But right now, Jones has had one impressive performance in the past few years, which was a win over a largely outsized Trinidad (what a dumb fight for Tito to take. Don't get me started.) So many fans are not all that excited at the prospect of Joe taking on a faded, past his prime Jones. I had no problem with Joe fighting Hopkins because Bernard was still considered the champ at Light Heavyweight and soundly beat Tarver. But fighting Roy, it's a lose lose situation for Joe as I stated in a previous post.

Plus, I think the fight between Pavlik and Joe could be made, whether at a catch weight or at Super Middle, which Joe could most likely still make. I mean, he's only fought the one time against Hopkins at Light Heavy, so it's not like he's been fighting at that weight for a long time. Anyway, I just hope that Joe will consider fighting Kelly after the Jones fight. To me, it's a huge fight that needs to be made for boxing and boxing fans.

[patientsnake]

I think there are plenty of positives for Joe in a fight with Jones. He beats a legend, as faded as he may be. He has a good chance of retiring undefeated. He makes more money in this fight as opposed to a fight with Pavlik.

[TDEEZY58]

I agree that maybe ducking is too strong a word to use regarding Calzaghe not fighting Pavlik and fighting Jones. I think the frustration for many boxing fans is that right now, Pavlik is more relevant and more highly regarded than Jones (except casual boxing fans who see only the name Roy Jones and assume we are talking about the fighter from the 90's / early 2000's.)


Kelly Pavlik hasn't been the champ for 5 minutes at 160 and already people want him to move up and fight Calzaghe. Calzaghe barely beats Hopkins and already people want him to move back down to fight Pavlik. The guys haven't been given the chance establish dominance over their respective divisions. It would be different if Pavlik was dominating at 168 after Calzaghe left. Then the match would make sense. Pavlik is looking for long term dominance at 160. Calzaghe wants some big money fights before he retires. They are at two diffferent stages in their careers so them fighting each other doesn't really make any sense. If Roy beats his relevant at 173 because it makes him the linear champ.

[Goodfella2279]

I understand your point but the reason why this fight needs to happen is because Calzaghe is only going to fight one or 2 more times. Calzaghe is only looking for big fights right now so it's not like he's going to defend his light heavyweight title a few times. To me, true champions want to fight the best guys they can. If that means moving up or down in weight to do it, then so be it (within reason, obviously). I personally don't want to see Pavlik stay at middleweight if I'm going to be subjected to him wasting his time on b.s. mandatories like Gary Lockett. And while Jones is a light heavy and has been that for a while, I am not that excited to watch Calzaghe fight a faded, past his prime Jones. Pavlik vs. Calzaghe is a very interesting fight because they are two fighters at the top of the sport who are around the same weight that would produce an exciting fight. I understand that Calzaghe is at the end of his career, but he is fighting at a very high level and could possibly beat anyone at or around his weight class. Like I said earlier, Calzaghe moving down to super middleweight, which he has dominated for a decade, to take on a top guy like Pavlik who could easily move up to super middle, is a very feasible fight. Hopefully it will happen.

[TDEEZY58]

I understand your point but the reason why this fight needs to happen is because Calzaghe is only going to fight one or 2 more times. Calzaghe is only looking for big fights right now so it's not like he's going to defend his light heavyweight title a few times. To me, true champions want to fight the best guys they can. If that means moving up or down in weight to do it, then so be it (within reason, obviously). I personally don't want to see Pavlik stay at middleweight if I'm going to be subjected to him wasting his time on b.s. mandatories like Gary Lockett. And while Jones is a light heavy and has been that for a while, I am not that excited to watch Calzaghe fight a faded, past his prime Jones. Pavlik vs. Calzaghe is a very interesting fight because they are two fighters at the top of the sport who are around the same weight that would produce an exciting fight. I understand that Calzaghe is at the end of his career, but he is fighting at a very high level and could possibly beat anyone at or around his weight class. Like I said earlier, Calzaghe moving down to super middleweight, which he has dominated for a decade, to take on a top guy like Pavlik who could easily move up to super middle, is a very feasible fight. Hopefully it will happen.

What question's would a Calzaghe/Pavlik fight answer? Pavlik has established himself as the champion at 160 but he hasn't done that with any consistency because he hasn't had the opportunity to. Why rush into a fight with Calzaghe? All it proves is that he can beat someone at the end of their career just like Calzaghe beating Roy would. Calzaghe and Roy are at the ends of their careers so them fighting each other makes some sense. Pavlik needs to be given the opportunity to dominate his division before branching out and jumping into a different division. Pavlik hasn't even fought at 168.

[Goodfella2279]

The question that Calzaghe vs. Pavlik would answer is who is the better fighter between 2 of the top 10 pound for pound fighters in the world. Beating a world class fighter like Calzaghe would further cement Pavlik as one of the very best in the sport. For Calzaghe, to beat a top guy like Pavlik will solidify his legacy as the best Europeon fighter possibly of all time. See, Calzaghe is at the top of the sport right now, undefeated and coming off of a win over a legend like Hopkins (a faded legend, but still a top fighter even at 43). Calzaghe is not faded by any means, so it's a great opportunity for Pavlik. And for Calzaghe, it's a chance to be a top fighter in his prime. What establishes a fighter is beating the other top fighters, not just the ones in your weight class. If there is a potential opponent one or two weight classes to the north or south that you could feasibly fight, then why not do it if it would be a huge fight and a great situation? If Calzaghe really couldn't get back down to Super Middle, then I wouldn't want him to fight Pavlik. But I still believe that he can and what better way to go out then in a huge fight against a very good fighter in Pavlik?

[patientsnake]

I would be much more interested in a Pavlik vs. Abraham fight. I don't think Pavlik vs. Calzaghe is going to happen.

[Goodfella2279]

Pavlik vs. Abraham is the next best thing, in my mind. That could be a very interesting fight. If Kelly and Joe can't make it happen, then I absolutely want to see Arthur and Kelly go at it. I think Kelly would win, but Abraham is a very good fighter and could give Kelly problems.

[Charlie Murphy]

I think Kelly is far too much for Abraham, and Kelly has all of the advantages, he's taller (almost 6'3 compared to Abraham who is barely 5'11) has fought the better competion (JT twice) and he probably has better power than Abraham, I think it'd be a good fight, but I'm positive Kelly would win by a mid round KO.

[patientsnake]

I think Kelly is far too much for Abraham, and Kelly has all of the advantages, he's taller (almost 6'3 compared to Abraham who is barely 5'11) has fought the better competion (JT twice) and he probably has better power than Abraham, I think it'd be a good fight, but I'm positive Kelly would win by a mid round KO.
I don't know about by KO. Miranda beat the hell outta him in their first fight, but he survived and won.

[TDEEZY58]

What establishes a fighter is beating the other top fighters, not just the ones in your weight class. If there is a potential opponent one or two weight classes to the north or south that you could feasibly fight, then why not do it if it would be a huge fight and a great situation?

B-Hop fought all his mandatory challengers for 10 years before he branched out and started doing the mega fights. Its a combination of consistency and dominance of your own weight class is what establishes you as a great fighter. Then you can branch out and jump to other weight classes.

Calzaghe already proved he's a great European fighter based on the fact that he hasn't lost a fight yet. He dominated the 168 division. Then he moved up to fight Hopkins. Pavlik needs to establish his dominance over the 160 division. Pavlik beat Taylor twice, Miranda, that other dud from England. I want to see a fighter dominate a division and then start making mega fights with fighters from different weight classes. Pavlik needs some longevity first.

I can't really say I'm in favor of fighters jumping weight classes unless they are going to stay up there. Roy came back down and got KO'd bad. Hatton moved up twice and didn't look good at all. He also looked like crap in his last fight. Tarver put on weight for a movie and got his a** handed to him by Hopkins. Oscar moved up and got KO'd by Hopkins, then lost to Mayweather when he moved back down. Fighters need to start dominating their own divisions before they start moving up. Look at Pacquio. He did what he needed to at the 126 and 130. Now he's moved up to 135 and he looked good doing it.

[patientsnake]

B-Hop fought all his mandatory challengers for 10 years before he branched out and started doing the mega fights. Its a combination of consistency and dominance of your own weight class is what establishes you as a great fighter. Then you can branch out and jump to other weight classes.

Calzaghe already proved he's a great European fighter based on the fact that he hasn't lost a fight yet. He dominated the 168 division. Then he moved up to fight Hopkins. Pavlik needs to establish his dominance over the 160 division. Pavlik beat Taylor twice, Miranda, that other dud from England. I want to see a fighter dominate a division and then start making mega fights with fighters from different weight classes. Pavlik needs some longevity first.

I can't really say I'm in favor of fighters jumping weight classes unless they are going to stay up there. Roy came back down and got KO'd bad. Hatton moved up twice and didn't look good at all. He also looked like crap in his last fight. Tarver put on weight for a movie and got his a** handed to him by Hopkins. Oscar moved up and got KO'd by Hopkins, then lost to Mayweather when he moved back down. Fighters need to start dominating their own divisions before they start moving up. Look at Pacquio. He did what he needed to at the 126 and 130. Now he's moved up to 135 and he looked good doing it.
I can't argue with that. Excellent post.

[Charlie Murphy]

Excellent post TDEEZY58.

[korey1980]

B-Hop fought all his mandatory challengers for 10 years before he branched out and started doing the mega fights. Its a combination of consistency and dominance of your own weight class is what establishes you as a great fighter. Then you can branch out and jump to other weight classes.

Calzaghe already proved he's a great European fighter based on the fact that he hasn't lost a fight yet. He dominated the 168 division. Then he moved up to fight Hopkins. Pavlik needs to establish his dominance over the 160 division. Pavlik beat Taylor twice, Miranda, that other dud from England. I want to see a fighter dominate a division and then start making mega fights with fighters from different weight classes. Pavlik needs some longevity first.

I can't really say I'm in favor of fighters jumping weight classes unless they are going to stay up there. Roy came back down and got KO'd bad. Hatton moved up twice and didn't look good at all. He also looked like crap in his last fight. Tarver put on weight for a movie and got his a** handed to him by Hopkins. Oscar moved up and got KO'd by Hopkins, then lost to Mayweather when he moved back down. Fighters need to start dominating their own divisions before they start moving up. Look at Pacquio. He did what he needed to at the 126 and 130. Now he's moved up to 135 and he looked good doing it.

Jones did dominate the light-heavyweight division before he moved up(1997-2004). Paquio fought Diaz, who had a rough time beating a completely spent Morales. Diaz is by far the weakest champ at 135. Manny is in trouble if he fights Juan Diaz, Katsidis, Casamayor, or Nate Campbell. Those guys or bigger, and busier guys than Manny. I cant see Manny beating any of those 4 real lightweights.

[metalmickey]

I don't know about by KO. Miranda beat the hell outta him in their first fight, but he survived and won.

Yeah, and with a broken jaw. Abraham has a weird style, he takes a lot of shots and then suddenly explodes with a powerful short lived flurry and then becomes inactive again. But I think Pavlik could do it.

[korey1980]

Pavlik vs Abraham would be a great fight. Pavlik sould clear ou the middleweight division, then move up in weight.

[CircleChange11]

B-Hop fought all his mandatory challengers for 10 years before he branched out and started doing the mega fights. Its a combination of consistency and dominance of your own weight class is what establishes you as a great fighter. Then you can branch out and jump to other weight classes.

It depends. Sometimes mega-talented fighters just dominate a weak division for years without ever taking a risk (Hopkins, Jones Jr, Tyson).

I prefer fighters to make a name for themselves against other great fighters, versus just racking up wins against mediocre fighters, only to be dismantled when they someone of equal or greater talent (Gee, how many times have we seen that).

But, you are talking about champions, so that is a bit different. Yet, it can be similar if a champion continues to defend his title in a weak division instead of going after equal/greater talent in a division one up/down from theirs.

I'm thankful the greats of the 80s, Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Leonard, moved up/down weight classes to fight each other, instead of having Leonard and Hearns stay light, hags at middle, and Duran at welter (or whatever the heck the original orientation was :D ). Each of those fighters could have avoided one another and held a title at their won division for a decade or more. Yawn.

IMO, there are too many weight classes. We don't need junior and super weight classes. We should have 122, light (135), welter(147), middle(158), light heavy(175), and heavy (175+), and possibly a super heavy of 230+.

Geez, we also don't need 4-6 champs at every micro weight division either.

[patientsnake]

I may be in the minority, but I like the weight classes the way they are. Fighters that want to move around can. I think with the weight classes suggested above, cruiserweight fighters would be forced to move up to heavyweight, where some wouldn't stand a chance. Sure, they could always move down, but who wants to see someone like Haye or Adamek fighting at 175 against a 160 pounder? That would seriously endanger the other fighter, same with fighters like Cunningham or Bell fighting Wlad. I think this would do more to hurt boxing than help. Look at fighters that have tried to move up, and have not been competitive. Hatton comes to mind.

I do agree with the statement about the many champions. I think too many belts hinder competition.

[BANKY]

It depends. Sometimes mega-talented fighters just dominate a weak division for years without ever taking a risk (Hopkins, Jones Jr, Tyson).

I prefer fighters to make a name for themselves against other great fighters, versus just racking up wins against mediocre fighters, only to be dismantled when they someone of equal or greater talent (Gee, how many times have we seen that).

But, you are talking about champions, so that is a bit different. Yet, it can be similar if a champion continues to defend his title in a weak division instead of going after equal/greater talent in a division one up/down from theirs.

I'm thankful the greats of the 80s, Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Leonard, moved up/down weight classes to fight each other, instead of having Leonard and Hearns stay light, hags at middle, and Duran at welter (or whatever the heck the original orientation was :D ). Each of those fighters could have avoided one another and held a title at their won division for a decade or more. Yawn.

IMO, there are too many weight classes. We don't need junior and super weight classes. We should have 122, light (135), welter(147), middle(158), light heavy(175), and heavy (175+), and possibly a super heavy of 230+.

Geez, we also don't need 4-6 champs at every micro weight division either.
you mean,

126-featherweight
135-lightweight
147-welterweight
160 middleweight
175-light heavy
230-heavyweight

122? that's one of those junior divisions you were talking about. and 158, has their ever been a weight class at that weight? I don't know, but i doubt it.

[TDEEZY58]

I prefer fighters to make a name for themselves against other great fighters, versus just racking up wins against mediocre fighters, only to be dismantled when they someone of equal or greater talent.

But, you are talking about champions, so that is a bit different. Yet, it can be similar if a champion continues to defend his title in a weak division instead of going after equal/greater talent in a division one up/down from theirs.

I'm thankful the greats of the 80s, Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Leonard, moved up/down weight classes to fight each other, instead of having Leonard and Hearns stay light, hags at middle, and Duran at welter (or whatever the heck the original orientation was :D ). Each of those fighters could have avoided one another and held a title at their won division for a decade or more. Yawn.

So your saying that Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard didn't establish themselves before moving up fight each other. Fighting the best isn't the only reason that people move up in weight. We're talking about two weight classes for a guy who just won the title. He's only defended his title once. Pavlik needs to demonstrate that he can dominate his own division first. I don't hear anybody calling out Paul Williams for moving up to 160 to Pavlik when he has Cotto, Margarito, Berto, Clottey and Judah that he could make a fight with.

[korey1980]

So your saying that Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Leonard didn't establish themselves before moving up fight each other. Fighting the best isn't the only reason that people move up in weight. We're talking about two weight classes for a guy who just won the title. He's only defended his title once. Pavlik needs to demonstrate that he can dominate his own division first. I don't hear anybody calling out Paul Williams for moving up to 160 to Pavlik when he has Cotto, Margarito, Berto, Clottey and Judah that he could make a fight with.

Paul Williams is having problems making 147(imo), and anyone could see that a move up in weight was coming. So him leaving welterweight is justifiable. The dude is 6'1", thats gotta be difficult making that weight. He doesnt have that thin of a frame. I dont understand how hes made that weight throughout his entire career. I dont think Paul should be rated in the top 10 of whatever class he moves to without beating a couple worthy contenders(at his new weight) first though. If he cant make 147 anymore, who are we to say anything?

[Charlie Murphy]

I think Paul moving up to 160 is actually a really good idea, he'll be more powerful at 160, and he'll likely retain his speed, I can see him giving Pavlik a LOT of problems.

[nickelzdropdimes]

do you think he'll be a solid 160?

[Charlie Murphy]

I think he'll be pretty solid at 160...apart from his chin, he was rocked against Margarito (but Paul did win that fight fair and square 115-113, good fight) and I read that he was rocked a few times by Quintana (I didn't catch that fight, saw the second one though) but that could be due to him having to pretty much kill himself to boil down to 147, what do you think?

[korey1980]

I think he'll be pretty solid at 160...apart from his chin, he was rocked against Margarito (but Paul did win that fight fair and square 115-113, good fight) and I read that he was rocked a few times by Quintana (I didn't catch that fight, saw the second one though) but that could be due to him having to pretty much kill himself to boil down to 147, what do you think?

I think Paul will give anyone troubles he fights simply because he has an 81 inch reach, not because he is a great fighter. I cant see him beating any of the top middles though. Is it just me or does Williams look awkward and uncoordinated when he throws punches? IDK, maybe its just the tree limbs he possesses for arms. And yes Charlie Murphy, Paul Williams did look like he got rocked a few times by Quintanas right hook and straight left in their first fight, it was ridiculous. I can honestly say Paul Williams had no answer for it, and looked very amateurish.

[King-Of-Kings]

P. williams has no defense and will get owned at 160. Abraham, pavlik, miranda would all beat williams. I dont think hes the best at 147 and if he and cotto ever meet, lets just say those ribs will be shattered since he has the same body frame as quintanna but with less defense.

[Goodfella2279]

I don't have a problem with a fighter fighting at the same weight and not moving up or down if there are good fights to be made at that weight. Lets be honest. Hopkins fought B.S. mandatories for years from corupt sanctioning bodies until Trinidad moved up and made a mega fight. Same with Roy Jones. The reality is that fighters are going to go where the big fights are, so if they need to move up or down to a class or two to make that happen then I think that's great. Boxing needs less b.s. mismatches because of mandatories that have no place fighting for a title. Obviously a fighter should move up or down in weight within reason. I mean, Pacquaio moving way up in weight to fight De La Hoya doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But to me, the quality of the fighters you have beaten establishes you as a fighter, irregardless of what weight class those fights were fought at.

That being said, I have no problem with a fighter establishing themselves at a weight class as long as there are good fights to be made and they are fighting quality fighters. Who wants to see a guy make 10 title defenses if all of them are against garbage mandatories? I can't stand the sanctioning bodies and don't even recognize their trinkets. The only belt I give any sort of credence to is the Ring belt.