2k Sports' Smartest Moves

[gosharks]

1. Turning production over to Visual Concepts, who hopefully can create a great game.
2. Getting Randy Hahn and Drew Remenda as commentators for this year's game.
3. Visual Concepts rebuilding the game from the ground up.

[RoadDoggFL]

4. Soliciting feedback for specific elements of the game from fans.
5. Listening to it...? (We'll see)

[b-Dub]

Note that the feedback threads were started way into production for 2K9. It will be difficult to get all things in, since there might not be enough time. I'm sure they will try to get in easier ones, and will work on the more involved ones for 2K10. If Ronnie had started working here sooner, and gotten these feedback threads up sooner, then they would have had more of impact on 2K9.

[macpuck]

You can't just gloss over the way 2K mishandled the puck for its 08 game by failing to update the rosters after early December. That failure and the lack of communication that surrounded it turned a lot of gamers against 2K. It will take some GREAT changes to bring some of those people back. You can only make so many mistakes before it has an impact.

[RoadDoggFL]

Note that the feedback threads were started way into production for 2K9. It will be difficult to get all things in, since there might not be enough time. I'm sure they will try to get in easier ones, and will work on the more involved ones for 2K10. If Ronnie had started working here sooner, and gotten these feedback threads up sooner, then they would have had more of impact on 2K9.
Right, but I'm referring more to WWTC's threads at 2KHockey.net's forums asking about things like whether arena's have hosts (male/female), and what their center ice line looks like.

It's nice and all to ask for ideas, but when the requests from the developers are specific, it's refreshing to see that there's a focused goal and makes the fans feel like their feedback is more likely to have an impact on the final product.

[b-Dub]

Right, but I'm referring more to WWTC's threads at 2KHockey.net's forums asking about things like whether arena's have hosts (male/female), and what their center ice line looks like.

It's nice and all to ask for ideas, but when the requests from the developers are specific, it's refreshing to see that there's a focused goal and makes the fans feel like their feedback is more likely to have an impact on the final product.

ahh...I see. Yeah, those have probably been up a lot longer and can have a bigger impact on 2K9.

macpuck, I would say that VC taking over for Kush is a pretty big change and step in the right direction.

[Grandmaster D]

[...]I would say that VC taking over for Kush is a pretty big change and step in the right direction.
But we don't know, what VC taking over really means. Sure, we can connect hopes for the better with it, seeing the product quality of former VC games or assume that those, whose former products are on hold or have ceased (APF, Hoopz) are now working on NHL and maybe bring over some of their ideas (like Hoops 2k share feature) but basically, we don't know who's working on the game. I only heard of one guy loosing his job. Nearly the same team could work on 2K9 - and I don't want to call that a bad thing, as I liked 2K8. I just want to say, that the pure information, that VC is taking over, has very little value and could be more of a marketing strategy: The promise of a better quality and at the same time a excuse for not fullfilling it ("we had to start from the scratch" or the like). One could see this as a smart move.

[macpuck]

I'm told that VC tried to hire a group of about 20 Kush developers in Nov or Dec and lured only two or three away. At that point, Kush was upset about VC's decision to bring the game in house AND ALSO about the attempted personnel raid. As a result, VC couldn't even figure out how to update its rosters for the rest of the season and playoffs. And, since they couldn't lure Kush's top people on to its staff, VC had no choice but to start over. That set of circumstances doesn't sound too promising to me.

[b-Dub]

I'm told that VC tried to hire a group of about 20 Kush developers in Nov or Dec and lured only two or three away. At that point, Kush was upset about VC's decision to bring the game in house AND ALSO about the attempted personnel raid. As a result, VC couldn't even figure out how to update its rosters for the rest of the season and playoffs. And, since they couldn't lure Kush's top people on to its staff, VC had no choice but to start over. That set of circumstances doesn't sound too promising to me.

Someone made a post like that in another thread that was pure speculation, and had no proof to back it up. I hope that's not where you're coming up with this.

VC and 2K Sports owned Kush, which is why they because 2K Los Angeles when MLB 2K8 came out. So, why would you try to "lure away" people already on your payroll? After MLB came out and the disappointment that it brought with quality control, 2K basically dissolved Kush and offered to bring some people from there up to VC. That would have required a relocation, as Kush was in the LA area, and VC is in the north part of the San Fransisco bay.

The decision to bring both NHL and MLB in house to VC most likely isn't because there weren't any good ideas or good mechanics in the games. It was because of the execution of said ideas and mechanics in my opinion. Kush wasn't able to add that coat of polish that VC has been able to with its game, hence freezing issues that don't seem to get fixed. Bugs that persist for multiple years. And with MLB, a game that had things broken in it that worked just fine the previous year.

From what Ronnie has said, and he hasn't said much, believe me, he's excited for this next game. He's excited for what VC is doing, and from my conversations with him about it over IM, he can't wait until he's allowed to disclose more information. That's what it seems like to me when he and I chat, anyways. I really like NHL 2K8 and am still playing it, so I'm excited to see what 2K9 will bring. Even if all they bring is some refinement and polish to the overall product with bugs and freezing issues fixed, I will be satisfied.

[RoadDoggFL]

I agree with you, Dub. 2K8 is a very good game. If the bugs were fixed (not just freezes, but things like player progression), I'd give it a 9.0.

NHL 09's feature list is quite impressive, but an upgraded 2K8 would still be a good game to me. So if it's a significant improvement, I'll be ecstatic.

Not that I'll ignore its flaws, it's just that the game already feels right to me.

[macpuck]

I can't argue with those of you who contend that, since VC "owned" Kush, the decision to move the development of 2K9 "in house" isn't really a clandestine maneuver. I don't honestly know whether VC actually owns Kush, has a financial interest in Kush or simply has some kind of interlocking management affiliation with Kush. I do know, however, that people who work for VC told me that the reason why NHL2k8 was not supported properly (no updated rosters after early December) was that not enough Kush employees could be moved from LA to SF to do the job. Why not? If it's all one, happy company, then employees usually move when they are told to move in order to get the job done. I've also been told that there was a period of indecision in there somewhere, during which the possibility of selling out to EA was contemplated. So what? When you put out a game, you have an obligation to support it. NBA2k8 updated its rosters ... NHL 08 updated its rosters ... And so I continue to insist that it is outrageous that NHL 2k8 did not update its rosters at least two more times (trading deadline and before playoffs). No more excuses, no more phoney explainations, no more nonsense.