Cotto back in 2008?

[Mumra]

That's the word from Puerto Rico, following former world champion Miguel Cotto's first career defeat on Saturday night against Antonio Margarito. "I hope that before the end of the year I'll be back in the ring," Cotto told reporters upon his return to the Island. The winner of this Saturday's IBF welter clash between Zab Judah and Joshua Clottey has been mentioned as a possible opponent. Cotto said he feels a bit hurt by the defeat and wants to continue working hard.

Now that's what I like to hear from a fighter. I like fighter's that are not scared to lose and are willing to fight the top fighter's in their divison. Fighters like Williams & Marg are guy's that came back stronger after a defeat. And I'm sure Cotto will do just the same being that he is wants to get right back in the GYM.

Those 3 fighter's I mention don't duck opponents. They don't retire to avoid facing top fighter's in their weight class.

[korey1980]

That's the word from Puerto Rico, following former world champion Miguel Cotto's first career defeat on Saturday night against Antonio Margarito. "I hope that before the end of the year I'll be back in the ring," Cotto told reporters upon his return to the Island. The winner of this Saturday's IBF welter clash between Zab Judah and Joshua Clottey has been mentioned as a possible opponent. Cotto said he feels a bit hurt by the defeat and wants to continue working hard.

Now that's what I like to hear from a fighter. I like fighter's that are not scared to lose and are willing to fight the top fighter's in their divison. Fighters like Williams & Marg are guy's that came back stronger after a defeat. And I'm sure Cotto will do just the same being that he is wants to get right back in the GYM.

Those 3 fighter's I mention don't duck opponents. They don't retire to avoid facing top fighter's in their weight class.

Way too soon(imo). Another ko loss for Cotto that soon would be the end of Cotto. A very dumb move, and Cottos people should talk him into taking a much desrved rest. Cotto needs a year or so to fully recover from the lenghty beatdown knockout loss he just suffered.

[nickelzdropdimes]

much agreed. Cotto should ease his way back in to things. he's been fighting at a high quality level for a long minute..

rest up and rebuild....its good to see he's still hungry......

[korey1980]

much agreed. Cotto should ease his way back in to things. he's been fighting at a high quality level for a long minute..

rest up and rebuild....its good to see he's still hungry......

Yeah, look at wahat happened to Jones, when he came back too soon. We all know Cotto is a warrior with tremendous heart. We(the fans) will wait patiently for his return, and wont look down on you for taking a break, it is a must.

[Fiction]

Wow Mumra, that's a really weak way of pointing out Mayweather. You act like that dude owes you something. He's made his money fought for years, has bad hands and wants to be there for his family. Yeah......he's selfish. Dude that man's children own his time not us. We've had him for years, too bad most people just got wind of him now.

Let's just entertain that thought of him not "Ducking people" He fights all the boxers you listed, another 2 or 3 years pass then what? Somebody else develops into a threat, and what..... he should fight them too right? That would give Berto enough time to sharpen his skills, maybe Clottey becomes a big name, or maybe he should wait for Pacquiao to make that jump right? Man there comes a time where every man has to say "I've had enough" and move on with his life in one form or another. Honestly I'm a big Mayweather fan and have been from day 1, but truthfully, boxing is doing great without him. Things seem new again and boxing needs that. Try appreciating that.

Look, any man that turns down the money he has isn't in it just for the money. He "Ducked" Margarito for 8 mil and then "Ducked" Oscar a man he beat for antoher 20 mil or so. Clearly money isn't everything to him. True his legacy will always be debated but his skill will not.

[AntDawg]

much agreed. Cotto should ease his way back in to things. he's been fighting at a high quality level for a long minute..

rest up and rebuild....its good to see he's still hungry...... What high quality level fighters? An old Mosley or an overrated Zab Judah? Just asking.

[kcxiv]

He needs to do what Marg did after he lost to Williams. Take a tune up fight get some confidence back and just massacre someone. Though Marg didnt do to much boxing in his next fight as he murdered Johnson in the first round. It wasnt fair. hah

[sampsonthestrong]

Cotto has nothing to be ashamed of. he fought his heart out but he just got beat by the better man that night. I think he should just take the rest of the year off, rest up and get healthy and then come back in mid 2009 against maybe a top 15 opponent. The real damage is done when fighters try to bounce back too soon from a brutal loss. Like Korey1980 said, if he gets KO'd again by coming back so soon after the loss he'd probably be finished as a serious fighter. He's only 27. He should re-charge his batteries for a while and then mount a strong comeback next year. Why rush? Margarito, Williams, Clottey, Berto, they'll all still be there a year from now.

[korey1980]

What high quality level fighters? An old Mosley or an overrated Zab Judah? Just asking.

Zab Jadah is fast as hell and hits hard, sure he has nights that he is not focused, but he came to win against Cotto, and the outcome was an all out war. Mosley is still a top fighter with good skill. Mosley will give any fighter a tough fight, and make you work. Lets also not forget the war Cotto was in with Richardo Torres, that we saw Cotto hurt badly in. Yeah, Cotto has been in with some high quality fighters.

[Goodfella2279]

I'm definitely glad that Cotto is still hungry. I don't have a problem with him fighting towards the end of the year but he needs a lesser opponent. Fighting a guy like Clottey or Judah again so soon is not a good move. I wouldn't mind him taking a break for the rest of the year, but at the same time if he fights a lesser guy in December I think that unless he losses, it will only help to rebuild his confidence and take the sting out of that loss. Sometimes if you take too much time off after a tough loss it can be bad because you end up overthinking what happened and doubting yourself. So everyone is different, and I hope that Cotto is making the right decision for him.

Also, great post Fiction. While Mayweather's retirement and his reluctance to fight the top fighters of today ****es me off, I do agree with everything you said. This is the decision that he made and if he did come back, then us boxing fans would want him to keep fighting the best 2-3 years from now. I really don't have a problem with him retiring but I do have a problem with him calling himself the best of all time. Like you said, his legacy will be debated but his skill will not, and that is absolutely true. But he can't possibly call himself the greatest of all time when he didn't fight the best of his era.

[King-Of-Kings]

Wow Mumra, that's a really weak way of pointing out Mayweather. You act like that dude owes you something. He's made his money fought for years, has bad hands and wants to be there for his family. Yeah......he's selfish. Dude that man's children own his time not us. We've had him for years, too bad most people just got wind of him now.

Let's just entertain that thought of him not "Ducking people" He fights all the boxers you listed, another 2 or 3 years pass then what? Somebody else develops into a threat, and what..... he should fight them too right? That would give Berto enough time to sharpen his skills, maybe Clottey becomes a big name, or maybe he should wait for Pacquiao to make that jump right? Man there comes a time where every man has to say "I've had enough" and move on with his life in one form or another. Honestly I'm a big Mayweather fan and have been from day 1, but truthfully, boxing is doing great without him. Things seem new again and boxing needs that. Try appreciating that.

Look, any man that turns down the money he has isn't in it just for the money. He "Ducked" Margarito for 8 mil and then "Ducked" Oscar a man he beat for antoher 20 mil or so. Clearly money isn't everything to him. True his legacy will always be debated but his skill will not.

perfect post. I dont have to bother writing this , thanks for that Fiction.

[Fiction]

Thanks King, I'm just trying to stay consistent. I think Cotto should eat 2 or 3 scrubs by mid 09 and get back into thr fray of things. Dude is great, but it's important to take it easy. Also......WTF is up with people swearing that 2 losses is the end of someones career? Last time I checked, all the greats minus Marciano, and Floyd......yes Floyd, have some 1 L or a few in that loss column but that didn't make them any less of a champ or any less great. If Judah can sit on 5L's and still continue to get shots, Cotto will get a shot so long as he stays exciting. Some of you so called boxing fans need to get off that boat.

It's ridiculous to think that a fighter wouldn't be relevant because of a few losses. Besides that Cotto has built his fan base. Cotto could lose 3 or 4 more fights over the course of 6 years and still get paid and still be relevant. Hell the only guy that should have hung it up a while ago is Oscar. Not saying he's weak or shot, he just needs to stop. When you have a guy like Pacquiao willing and waiting to get a crack at you, it says more about your deterioration than it does your skill.

Sorry Pac-Man would never challenge Moseley, because despite the age and the passing of his prime, Moseley would beat the brakes off of Manny. Back to the topic. Cotto needs to take it easy and build back that confidence. He is a great champ, boxer, and a showman. We need him around for a while.

[reppa]

Wow Mumra, that's a really weak way of pointing out Mayweather. You act like that dude owes you something. He's made his money fought for years, has bad hands and wants to be there for his family. Yeah......he's selfish. Dude that man's children own his time not us. We've had him for years, too bad most people just got wind of him now.

Let's just entertain that thought of him not "Ducking people" He fights all the boxers you listed, another 2 or 3 years pass then what? Somebody else develops into a threat, and what..... he should fight them too right? That would give Berto enough time to sharpen his skills, maybe Clottey becomes a big name, or maybe he should wait for Pacquiao to make that jump right? Man there comes a time where every man has to say "I've had enough" and move on with his life in one form or another. Honestly I'm a big Mayweather fan and have been from day 1, but truthfully, boxing is doing great without him. Things seem new again and boxing needs that. Try appreciating that.

Look, any man that turns down the money he has isn't in it just for the money. He "Ducked" Margarito for 8 mil and then "Ducked" Oscar a man he beat for antoher 20 mil or so. Clearly money isn't everything to him. True his legacy will always be debated but his skill will not.

Yeah I have to agree with King of Kings here. That was a great post. I'm not a Mayweather fan. I use to be. I have to be honest. I don't like the guy (now) and imo I don't find his style all that exciting (last handful of fights), but that's just me. But with that said (with all the bad things aside) I do respect his skill. But it would be a never ending thing. Bottom line is that people want to see Mayweather lose. That's what it all comes down to. I say let the guy retire in peace.

[reppa]

Thanks King, I'm just trying to stay consistent. I think Cotto should eat 2 or 3 scrubs by mid 09 and get back into thr fray of things. Dude is great, but it's important to take it easy. Also......WTF is up with people swearing that 2 losses is the end of someones career? Last time I checked, all the greats minus Marciano, and Floyd......yes Floyd, have some 1 L or a few in that loss column but that didn't make them any less of a champ or any less great. If Judah can sit on 5L's and still continue to get shots, Cotto will get a shot so long as he stays exciting. Some of you so called boxing fans need to get off that boat.

It's ridiculous to think that a fighter wouldn't be relevant because of a few losses. Besides that Cotto has built his fan base. Cotto could lose 3 or 4 more fights over the course of 6 years and still get paid and still be relevant. Hell the only guy that should have hung it up a while ago is Oscar. Not saying he's weak or shot, he just needs to stop. When you have a guy like Pacquiao willing and waiting to get a crack at you, it says more about your deterioration than it does your skill.

Sorry Pac-Man would never challenge Moseley, because despite the age and the passing of his prime, Moseley would beat the brakes off of Manny. Back to the topic. Cotto needs to take it easy and build back that confidence. He is a great champ, boxer, and a showman. We need him around for a while.

Sorry for the double post, but I just want to comment on a few things. One thing that amazes me is how in the world Zab is still in it. Don't get me wrong, Judah is one of my favorite fighters if not my favorite, but it's just crazy. I'm ok with it because you just never know with him. i'm not sure why people make such a big deal about a loss or two. Even more than that. Do you have any idea how many people wrote off Williams when he lost to Quintana? The same thing is happening to Cotto right now. I mean look at Jose Luis Castillo. He has 8 losses (well 9 now), but I was right there cheering him on.....hoping that left hook was coming.

This is why I love and hate boxing. Because in most cases, you can't afford to have an off-night or take a loss. You lose a game in the NBA finals and it's no big deal. We will get them next year. You don't always get those type of chances in Boxing. And if you do, it's sometimes years down the road. One loss can change your entire career.

[Fiction]

Well I believe the people that write folks off after a loss or an off night for that boxer, really don't watch boxing. They glance over it. Boxing is great in the fact that that one mistake, or that one off night will cost you, but it's really all based on how you lose, and who you lose too that do the most damage.

Cotto fought an excellent fight and lost to a outstanding fighter. If Cotto did his thing again against another boxer and came up short, he'd still be in the picture depending on how he loses. It would just set him back. Many of the guys hovering in the welter - lightweight division have suffered them. All of the headliners now. Thats just the way the cards fall.

You are right though Reppa, people just want to see Floyd lose and the sad thing is when he wins, they take away the credit for the win. It's like he's ****** if he does and ****** if he doesnt. I do believe a loss on PBF record would make him seem more likeable to alot of people, because a flaw would be evident. All people have for him are complaints. Sad thing is no one has provided a solution to the problem of his perfect record.

Even if Floyd comes back and loses, I can garuntee that people will love him more on one end and on the other, the folks that just glance over boxing will say something to the extent of " I've been saying that's how you beat him for years now"." He was always overated". It won't be a possible off night for Floyd, just that he always sucked. Every fighter with an seemingly untouchable record, and style will get the same chants.

That's where Cotto is at now, and that's a damn shame.

[kcxiv]

Cotto needs to just take a good 6-8 months off to get right. Make sure no lingering effects from the last fight.

[Mumra]

Fiction alot of people dont like Floyd because he is cocky! It's not so much about them wanting to see him lose. I for one admire Floyd skill's in the ring and his ring smarts. But what I don't like about him is how he calls himself the best fighter ever.

I don't like how he say's he is better then "Sugar Ray Lenord". It's one thing to claim your the best. As long as you can prove it to the world by cleaning out your division.

When Tyson was in his prime he was cleaning out the Heavyweight Divison. He could have easily said he was the best fighter ever. But he didnt and when he KO Larry Holmes Tyson even admited he would have lost to Holmes if Larry was in his prime.

He could have easily said he was the best fighter ever. The same as what Floyd said about himself, The diffence is Tyson was willing to fight anybody. He never made excuses on why he didnt want to fight someone.

If you claim your the best, Then go out and fight the best, Don't pick & choose your fight's. Take on the top fighter's in your divison and clean the house. Once all said and done nobody can say a damn thing.

Otherwise shut your mouth about being the best and continue to pick & avoid the serious threat's in your divison until your retired. I really don't want to see Floyd back unless he's fighting the best in his weight class.

Until then I wish him well and thank him for showing boxing fans the true definition of "Sweet Science".

[korey1980]

Good points Mumra. Floyds popularity suffers because of his lack of character, and the fact that the last couple of years he has not pleased fans in his opponents he has chosen. There is not one fighter in the last 4 years Floyd has faced that he did not see a weakness in, before fighting them. Baldomir was tailormade for Floyd due to his very slow hands. I have no idea how Judah lost to Baldomir. Then he fought Judah who can be dangerous, but is not always on his game, and looks flat on occasion. Delahoya has problems with stamina,and was past his best. Hatton looked terrible at 147 against Collazo, and Floyd fighting Gatti was an absolute joke(imo). I enjoyed watching Floyd anywhere from 130 to 140 lbs, and think he shouldve stayed there. Think of all the great fighters he wouldve faught: Barrerra, Morales, Casamayor, JMM, and Pacquiao just to name a few. He wouldve beaten all of those men soundly, but it wouldve meant alot more than the guys he's faught lately. I know, I know, he wouldnt have made as much money, but it wouldve made his claim of being "The Greatest Ever", harder to disagree with.

[reppa]

Well I believe the people that write folks off after a loss or an off night for that boxer, really don't watch boxing. They glance over it. Boxing is great in the fact that that one mistake, or that one off night will cost you, but it's really all based on how you lose, and who you lose too that do the most damage.

Cotto fought an excellent fight and lost to a outstanding fighter. If Cotto did his thing again against another boxer and came up short, he'd still be in the picture depending on how he loses. It would just set him back. Many of the guys hovering in the welter - lightweight division have suffered them. All of the headliners now. Thats just the way the cards fall.

You are right though Reppa, people just want to see Floyd lose and the sad thing is when he wins, they take away the credit for the win. It's like he's ****** if he does and ****** if he doesnt. I do believe a loss on PBF record would make him seem more likeable to alot of people, because a flaw would be evident. All people have for him are complaints. Sad thing is no one has provided a solution to the problem of his perfect record.

Even if Floyd comes back and loses, I can garuntee that people will love him more on one end and on the other, the folks that just glance over boxing will say something to the extent of " I've been saying that's how you beat him for years now"." He was always overated". It won't be a possible off night for Floyd, just that he always sucked. Every fighter with an seemingly untouchable record, and style will get the same chants.

That's where Cotto is at now, and that's a damn shame.

Can't argue that. Floyd was always going to be in this position. Makes me wonder what he has to do to please everyone. Well there is nothing he can do to please everyone, but like you said "It's like he's ****** if he does and ****** if he doesnt." The sad thing here is that Cotto is going to have all eyes on him now with twice as many critics as before. Cotto had a great fight and proved a lot, but others will just have more questions about him than they did before the fight.

[reppa]

Fiction alot of people dont like Floyd because he is cocky! It's not so much about them wanting to see him lose. I for one admire Floyd skill's in the ring and his ring smarts. But what I don't like about him is how he calls himself the best fighter ever.

I don't like how he say's he is better then "Sugar Ray Lenord". It's one thing to claim your the best. As long as you can prove it to the world by cleaning out your division.

When Tyson was in his prime he was cleaning out the Heavyweight Divison. He could have easily said he was the best fighter ever. But he didnt and when he KO Larry Holmes Tyson even admited he would have lost to Holmes if Larry was in his prime.

He could have easily said he was the best fighter ever. The same as what Floyd said about himself, The diffence is Tyson was willing to fight anybody. He never made excuses on why he didnt want to fight someone.

If you claim your the best, Then go out and fight the best, Don't pick & choose your fight's. Take on the top fighter's in your divison and clean the house. Once all said and done nobody can say a damn thing.

Otherwise shut your mouth about being the best and continue to pick & avoid the serious threat's in your divison until your retired. I really don't want to see Floyd back unless he's fighting the best in his weight class.

Until then I wish him well and thank him for showing boxing fans the true definition of "Sweet Science".

:thumbsup: This is where I started losing interest in Floyd. Jumping up in weight classes and running his mouth. I can't back a guy like that.



Good points Mumra. Floyds popularity suffers because of his lack of character, and the fact that the last couple of years he has not pleased fans in his opponents he has chosen. There is not one fighter in the last 4 years Floyd has faced that he did not see a weakness in, before fighting them. Baldomir was tailormade for Floyd due to his very slow hands. I have no idea how Judah lost to Baldomir. Then he fought Judah who can be dangerous, but is not always on his game, and looks flat on occasion. Delahoya has problems with stamina,and was past his best. Hatton looked terrible at 147 against Collazo, and Floyd fighting Gatti was an absolute joke(imo). I enjoyed watching Floyd anywhere from 130 to 140 lbs, and think he shouldve stayed there. Think of all the great fighters he wouldve faught: Barrerra, Morales, Casamayor, JMM, and Pacquiao just to name a few. He wouldve beaten all of those men soundly, but it wouldve meant alot more than the guys he's faught lately. I know, I know, he wouldnt have made as much money, but it wouldve made his claim of being "The Greatest Ever", harder to disagree with.

:thumbsup: Exactly. Thank you. I was about to make a topic about what if Floyd came out of retirement and went back down. Probably too little too late now, but I wish he would have never went up to WW. IMO it really messed things up for awhile there. Things are just now starting to get back on track. But if he never went up in weight, we have to assume the other fights at the lower weights would have been made. Obviously he was seeing $$$. Is it just me or did Floyd just start having tunnel vision with Oscar being at the end of the tunnel.

[Fiction]

I don't discount that his mouth has nothing to do with his popularity or lack there of. Most boxers that are that good have a silver tongue when it comes to talking about themselves. I agree with the fact that he choose his opponents based on a weakness they showed. The thing about that is, is that every smart boxer does the same. No sane man would fight someone that they couldn't spot a weakness they couldn't' exploit.

Floyd just made it more obvious. I don't believe any boxer with less than 50 to 60 wins should even mention their name in the same breath as SRR. That's a disgrace to him and to boxing. I never recall him saying he was the greatest ever, I do recall him saying that he is one of the greatest and that he should be put up there with SRR. Still a bogus statement.

If Floyd would have stayed at the same weight class or around the 130-140 weight and cleared them out, he could get by with that claim. As far as Floyd and Oscar go, Floyd has been calling out Oscar for Years and I do mean years. He's been calling out De La Hoya since 02 or so. He always felt like he could beat him, and that was before he was all about the money and before De La Hoya hit that slump. The problem then was weight.

Floyd will be a top 15 maybe in the top 10 but that's pushing it a bit. I think the amount of wins he has and the fact that he did jump out of his comfort zone to snatch belts will hurt his placement. Now if Cotto stays around his 2 neighboring weight classes going up and escapes with only 3 or 4 losses, fighting the best out there he'd be placed above Floyd in a heartbeat. Hopefully his hunger last.

[korey1980]

I don't discount that his mouth has nothing to do with his popularity or lack there of. Most boxers that are that good have a silver tongue when it comes to talking about themselves. I agree with the fact that he choose his opponents based on a weakness they showed. The thing about that is, is that every smart boxer does the same. No sane man would fight someone that they couldn't spot a weakness they couldn't' exploit.

Floyd just made it more obvious. I don't believe any boxer with less than 50 to 60 wins should even mention their name in the same breath as SRR. That's a disgrace to him and to boxing. I never recall him saying he was the greatest ever, I do recall him saying that he is one of the greatest and that he should be put up there with SRR. Still a bogus statement.

If Floyd would have stayed at the same weight class or around the 130-140 weight and cleared them out, he could get by with that claim. As far as Floyd and Oscar go, Floyd has been calling out Oscar for Years and I do mean years. He's been calling out De La Hoya since 02 or so. He always felt like he could beat him, and that was before he was all about the money and before De La Hoya hit that slump. The problem then was weight.

Floyd will be a top 15 maybe in the top 10 but that's pushing it a bit. I think the amount of wins he has and the fact that he did jump out of his comfort zone to snatch belts will hurt his placement. Now if Cotto stays around his 2 neighboring weight classes going up and escapes with only 3 or 4 losses, fighting the best out there he'd be placed above Floyd in a heartbeat. Hopefully his hunger last.

Heres my question, Does Floyd get ranked higher all time than lets say Jones, who dominated the sport for longer than Mayweather, and kept fighting on too long? Jones wanted to retire after the Ruiz fight, with a 49-1 record with 38 ko's, with the lone loss coming by way of DQ. He then was lure back to fight Tarver, and its pretty much downhill from then on.. Does Jones get a lower ranking because he basically did what "The Greatest" Ali did, and faught on too long? I dont think so. Floyd might be one of the best ever, but why retire before your prime (31-32 y.o.). Who knows maybe Floyd knows his best days are behind him, however, I doubt it, and think he should come back for one more fight(Margarito). It just bothers me that Floyd has even dissed guys like SRL, saying that he wouldve killed him if they wouldve faught in the same era. Thats just plain ****ty, and is very disrespectful to confront a former great and talk ****. I bet SRL was thinking, "Man I wish I was 20 years younger, cuz I woulda just starched that guy". And people still wonder why there are Floyd haters.

[BANKY]

Wow Mumra, that's a really weak way of pointing out Mayweather. You act like that dude owes you something. He's made his money fought for years, has bad hands and wants to be there for his family. Yeah......he's selfish. Dude that man's children own his time not us. We've had him for years, too bad most people just got wind of him now.

Let's just entertain that thought of him not "Ducking people" He fights all the boxers you listed, another 2 or 3 years pass then what? Somebody else develops into a threat, and what..... he should fight them too right? That would give Berto enough time to sharpen his skills, maybe Clottey becomes a big name, or maybe he should wait for Pacquiao to make that jump right? Man there comes a time where every man has to say "I've had enough" and move on with his life in one form or another. Honestly I'm a big Mayweather fan and have been from day 1, but truthfully, boxing is doing great without him. Things seem new again and boxing needs that. Try appreciating that.

Look, any man that turns down the money he has isn't in it just for the money. He "Ducked" Margarito for 8 mil and then "Ducked" Oscar a man he beat for antoher 20 mil or so. Clearly money isn't everything to him. True his legacy will always be debated but his skill will not.
Man, that was a weak defense of mayweather, lmao. Everybody is agreeing with you, but im gonna point some stuff out to you. You won't care, but im gonna tell you anyways.
Let me tell you something, every dime floyd has, was made off the backs of us 40 hour a week guys paying to watch him ply his craft. He owes us EVERYTHING! WE, the boxing public, gave him what he has.
So he wants to be there for his family? Is that why has so many kids with different mamas? Cause he cares about "family"? Is that why he is always in da club? Is that why he is making it rain? LMAO, dude, get a reality check. He was the most selfish person in the game.
Floyd quotes, "I'm not fighting for the fans" Well then, who the F you fighting for then, may? "Who is Cotto?", what, did you miss all those HBO shows that you WEREN'T on? "Who is Margarito?" How about a guy who could beat you down, floyd?
You want to entertain the fact that he didn't duck anyone, but the FACT is, he did. He ducked johnston, freitas, Casamayor, spadafora, Tzyu, all before he hit 147.
When Demarcus "Chop Chop" Corley is the best you faced at 140, isn't their a problem? Do you purposely put that out of your mind?
I will agree with you on one thing, BOXING IS DOING GREAT WITHOUT HIM! It just sucks that alot of people will still think he could have beat everyone. It's too bad that he NEVER PROVED it in the ring.
His skill will be debated, and i'll tell you why. Nobody ever tested it. HE himself, never tested it.
Can anyone remember a time when Floyd cleaned out a division? Anyone, Anyone,,,,,,,,,,,not even at lightweight, where people consider him to be a great fighter.
I put Floyd in my TOP 50, that's it. One of the best of all time? LMAO, you must be kidding.


I don't discount that his mouth has nothing to do with his popularity or lack there of. Most boxers that are that good have a silver tongue when it comes to talking about themselves. I agree with the fact that he choose his opponents based on a weakness they showed. The thing about that is, is that every smart boxer does the same. No sane man would fight someone that they couldn't spot a weakness they couldn't' exploit.

Floyd just made it more obvious. I don't believe any boxer with less than 50 to 60 wins should even mention their name in the same breath as SRR. That's a disgrace to him and to boxing. I never recall him saying he was the greatest ever, I do recall him saying that he is one of the greatest and that he should be put up there with SRR. Still a bogus statement.

If Floyd would have stayed at the same weight class or around the 130-140 weight and cleared them out, he could get by with that claim. As far as Floyd and Oscar go, Floyd has been calling out Oscar for Years and I do mean years. He's been calling out De La Hoya since 02 or so. He always felt like he could beat him, and that was before he was all about the money and before De La Hoya hit that slump. The problem then was weight.

Floyd will be a top 15 maybe in the top 10 but that's pushing it a bit. I think the amount of wins he has and the fact that he did jump out of his comfort zone to snatch belts will hurt his placement. Now if Cotto stays around his 2 neighboring weight classes going up and escapes with only 3 or 4 losses, fighting the best out there he'd be placed above Floyd in a heartbeat. Hopefully his hunger last.

TOP 15? WTF?! I can't even comment anymore on this. I know its just your opinion bro, but it's not even close to what most Boxing people, think. He is a top 50, by most people's estimations. Check this, and tell me what you think? Before you start bashing it, know that maxboxing is filled with INSIDE guys in the boxing world. Nate Campbell, Tery trekas, david Have, and many other boxing scribes like Steve Kim and Cliff Rold chat on these boards. This is a poll of Hardcore boxing fans, not the casual fan.

Will Floyd Mayweather stay retired?
yes [ 26 ] ** [15.48%]
no [ 142 ] ** [84.52%]
Where does Mayweather rank on the list of best pound-for-pound fighters of all time?
Top 5 [ 6 ] ** [3.57%]
Top 10 [ 10 ] ** [5.95%]
Top 25 [ 42 ] ** [25.00%]
Top 50 [ 74 ] ** [44.05%]
Best Ever [ 1 ] ** [0.60%]
Out of the top 50 [ 35 ] ** [20.83%]
Is Mayweather the best pound-for-pound fighter of the past 25 years?
yes [ 22 ] ** [13.10%]
no [ 146 ] ** [86.90%]

I think Mayweather had great skills, lets just not start sucking each other's *&*&s over it. Let's keep it in perspective. He looked good, he did a FEW great things, but ultimately, not enough.

[TDEEZY58]

Can anyone remember a time when Floyd cleaned out a division? Anyone, Anyone,,,,,,,,,,,not even at lightweight, where people consider him to be a great fighter.

That's the one thing you can hang over his head. He never cleaned out a division. I thought he was going to stay at 140 and do it there. I think he knew like a lot of others that he may have been too little to do it a 147, but I think he noticed the division was a gold mine and wanted some gold. That's why you can't really put him in that upper crust of the greats. What's really interesting is if he stuck around at 135 or even 140 he probably could have had a possible showdown with Manny Pacquiao right now. Oh what could have been. Keep in mind that I am a fan of his.

Banky, I think you're being a little harsh about the kids, and baby mama comment. Evander Holyfield has 9 by 2 or 3 different women. Former NBA player Shawn Kemp also has 9. NFL Running Back Travis Henry has 8 kids, 5 different women, in 4 or 5 different states. Please don't put the man in the same class as these people. As far as I know he 3 or 4 kids. Twin boys and 2 girls I think. That's what I remember from 24/7.

[BANKY]

That's the one thing you can hang over his head. He never cleaned out a division. I thought he was going to stay at 140 and do it there. I think he knew like a lot of others that he may have been too little to do it a 147, but I think he noticed the division was a gold mine and wanted some gold. That's why you can't really put him in that upper crust of the greats. What's really interesting is if he stuck around at 135 or even 140 he probably could have had a possible showdown with Manny Pacquiao right now. Oh what could have been. Keep in mind that I am a fan of his.

Banky, I think you're being a little harsh about the kids, and baby mama comment. Evander Holyfield has 9 by 2 or 3 different women. Former NBA player Shawn Kemp also has 9. NFL Running Back Travis Henry has 8 kids, 5 different women, in 4 or 5 different states. Please don't put the man in the same class as these people. As far as I know he 3 or 4 kids. Twin boys and 2 girls I think. That's what I remember from 24/7.
Am I being harsh? three different moms for four kids and one of em was twins. that doesn't reek of hypocrisy? You have Fiction saying that his time is his families, BS, I call BS. that's not why he quit. He quit cause he doesn't have the passion or the heart to continue on, he said so himself. You pointing out those other athletes just goes to show that these boys need to act like MEN! How many times must we see children grow up without their father? Even if he provides monetarily, you think he takes em to da club?

Isn't that just stereotypical of a young black urban athlete/rapper TYPE, fathering that many children and not staying with the momma? I'm not the most religious guy, but i do believe in personal responsibility. When is this not cool anymore? When do you start holding floyd accountable for his persona outside of the ring and his less than chivalrous routines in the ring? Neither is very upstanding. His skills, second to none. his chin, well, you'll never know how good it was. His heart? Lacking. His passion? lacking.

I was only pointing out this to fiction, cause he wanted to use the BS excuse of his family. Boxing is about legacy. it's not about money. It's about fighting and we got very little of that. If you wanna say you are on par with the greats and then do what he did, which was not much, expect people to hate on you, and i do.

[Fiction]

Sorry Banky

No one owes you anything. You got what you paid for plain and simple. Hate to tell you champ, but that train of thought is flawed. So Floyd owes us his life apparently huh. We raised him, we trained him, we paved the road for him, and now he needs to keep fighting until we say he's done right? Give me a break, that's some needy sh-it.

I guess no one should quit there jobs or change their career fields becuase "your employer is the reason why you have anthying"or leave your parents house because "your parents took care of you, so that gives them right to make all your lifes choices for you". Everything is give and take Banky. We gave up dollars to see him perform and he did. His obligation to you is over once that final bell rings. Don't get me wrong, I understand where you are coming from as a boxing fan. I feel that way too in that light, but the truth is dude doesn't want it anymore.

Maybe you're a father, but as a father myself with a fast paced and demanding job, all I want to do is spend the time with my kids. He's in a position to do so, so he should. You aren't gonna be there for them. That baby's mama comment is ignorant as hell. Who cares why he has different baby mothers. Those children are his utmost responsibilty. I sure as hell didn't say anything other than that. Your kids come first.

He's still a young man Banky, is he not supposed to enjoy his wealth on his own time.
So what if he makes it Rain on strippers, it's his money, he earned it , he can do with it what he pleases. By that logic, I guess I'm wrong because I buy Video Games, and go to a club every once in awhile. God forbid I have some me time in my life too. You sounded like a real hater with that comment. I'd make it rain on all girl choir if I had his chips.

Don't attack the mans "me" time because it's not important, nor does it make him a bad parent. The GOAT SRR beat his wife, Whitaker was a crackhead, Ali had women in different rooms of his home for booty sessions from time to time, but that has nothing to deal with boxing. Let me clear the air by saying this. Floyd still had alot of work to do. Simply based on what he wanted to acomplish. If he stayed in his natural weight class and only moved up based on his body's growth he would have been more dominant. Since he decided to go belt hunting he left the top contenders of each given weight class behind. That's what hurts his legacy. I don't see every choice he makes as ducking, I see alot of it as his career goals, and yes they were shallow.

I think Floyd f'd himself with his pursuit of belts. I think he thought that just being a champ in multiple divisions would make him great, but hell any one can get a belt. I place Roy much Higher than Floyd. Jones hit a decline in the later part of his career, but people don't give him credit either because he also picked and chose who he fought. The worse thing about that is, is that there still aren't big names hovering all over his resume either. There were no glaring champs in his path like there are now for the lighter weight fighters. Larry Holmes had issues of getting his credit based on the competitors around him at his time. In no way am I saying Floyd is a Holmes, but him and Roy have that same issue. They have a few names on theire resume but not a list of them. Holmes like Roy dominated their divisons though and that's why Roy is ranked higher for me.

Floyd and Roy have some very similar practices when it comes down to it. They chased accomplishments during their careers. Roy just did a better job of making it obvious why he was the best around. You bring up the fact that maxboxing thinks differently or that other boxers comment about boxing. STFW. I respect all analyst and I'm not going off of strictly his record or who he's boxed. His skills as a boxer play a major part for me and who negated or matched his skill when he fought them. Lennox Lewis believes he could beat Ali and Louis, and has said it. He thinks he's the greatest Heavyweight of all time, simply becuase he beat every man he fought. I guess that's true huh? Just because he thinks it don't make it so. I know what I look for. No group of people will influence my choices and my criteria. Dude many boxing analyst have said that Floyd would go down in the top 10 if he kept fighting. He didn't so I put him in my top 15 because of the overall boxing skill he demonstrated.

It's boxing, and no matter who you think is better or who should go where there is always a counter arguement to it. Hell some analyst think Willie Pep is the GOAT. The Top 5 is what's generally set in stone with a name changing a place here or there, but everyone after will usually vary. Don't come at me like I'm riding this dudes richard, I have said that he could have done more and believe he can still do more, but unlike you it seems I respect his choice to continue life outside of the ring.

[Fiction]

Am I being harsh? three different moms for four kids and one of em was twins. that doesn't reek of hypocrisy? You have Fiction saying that his time is his families, BS, I call BS. that's not why he quit. He quit cause he doesn't have the passion or the heart to continue on, he said so himself. You pointing out those other athletes just goes to show that these boys need to act like MEN! How many times must we see children grow up without their father? Even if he provides monetarily, you think he takes em to da club?

Isn't that just stereotypical of a young black urban athlete/rapper TYPE, fathering that many children and not staying with the momma? I'm not the most religious guy, but i do believe in personal responsibility. When is this not cool anymore? When do you start holding floyd accountable for his persona outside of the ring and his less than chivalrous routines in the ring? Neither is very upstanding. His skills, second to none. his chin, well, you'll never know how good it was. His heart? Lacking. His passion? lacking.

I was only pointing out this to fiction, cause he wanted to use the BS excuse of his family. Boxing is about legacy. it's not about money. It's about fighting and we got very little of that. If you wanna say you are on par with the greats and then do what he did, which was not much, expect people to hate on you, and i do.

If boxing wasn't about money.........money would never be involved. Dude you act like you work at the clubs Mayweather goes to "every night" and can vouch for him always being there. This may sound corny but Banky you've always been better than the stuff your typing now. You seem like you really know what goes on in this mans mind or house hold other than what he says or what you may see. That shows a close minded man, and a close minded man is a man with no reason.

I don't care if he ducking or legitamately tired of the sport, he said he want's to be there for his kids, so I'll give him that. I don't want to get into the symantics of a f'd up father son relationship, but I have one and because of that I'm a better man and father to my kids. So I can understand that reason. I'm in the process of getting a divorce, I have 2 kids and may have some other children one day with another woman, so I guess that would make me a hypocrite too like a huge population of society. Caucasian, Latin, Asian, and so on, not just young Blacks (That was a dumb *** comment). I for damn sure am a responsible parent no matter what I do at night. Dude that point holds as much water as a two open hands.

Yes when it comes to boxing....... His passion was lacking........and his Legacy will be affected. Make no mistake about it, he has heart. Any man that get's into that ring to fight for a living has more heart than any of us just watching it, especially to succeed on that level. I understand some of your feelings Banky but I think you're being black and white to what probably is a pretty grey area.

[Fiction]

SRL would have touched Floyd. I always thought he was just talking to talk on that SRL comment. Yeah he was maddddddd out of line for that ****. I lauged when I read that. I think I called my boy up and shed a tear with him of the stupidity of that comment. Wow, if only we had a time machine or a fountain of youth. Floyd could have gotten touched by anyone of the greats of that era. Not to say he couldn't beat them, but he would have been just another great fighter in mix of other great fighters. Hagler would have ate him alive.

Fighters say some weird things to convince themselves of their own greatness.

[korey1980]

SRL would have touched Floyd. I always thought he was just talking to talk on that SRL comment. Yeah he was maddddddd out of line for that ****. I lauged when I read that. I think I called my boy up and shed a tear with him of the stupidity of that comment. Wow, if only we had a time machine or a fountain of youth. Floyd could have gotten touched by anyone of the greats of that era. Not to say he couldn't beat them, but he would have been just another great fighter in mix of other great fighters. Hagler would have ate him alive.

Fighters say some weird things to convince themselves of their own greatness.

Roy didnt do it,and he was as cocky as they come, yet very insppired and respectful of those that came before him. In all honesty , if I knew Floyd personally, I would not respect him, simply cuz he doesnt deserve to be praised. His personality reminds me of someone I'd like to take a bat to, I swear.

[Charlie Murphy]

There's no denying Floyd'd talent, but he's definitely not unbeatable, and I think if he fought guys like Barrera, Morales, JMM, Pacman, Casamayor, Margarito, Mosley, Cotto - he'd definitely have 3 or 4 losses on his record now, but he'd be loved so much more for actually fighting the best.

[pipioz]

IMO Coto needs to get at least a 10 month rest

[SmoothSexxy]

Cotto should have a fight in November,or December. December would be better. As far as that whole Floyd buisness. He is in the top 50 but he probably won't get past 35. Dunno how Fiction has him up that high, but if he uses something that can't readily be measured like overall skill I guess I could see his placement. Otherwise, he made some good points. Mayweather would have beaten Morales, Barrera, JMM, and a Pacquiao. They would have been great fights, but he could have beaten those dudes. At there weight classes Floyd had both enough Power and Speed to beat those dudes. Convincingly. JMM would probably been the best fight out of that group, but JMM chin could have been an issue.

I think Cotto could beat him, Marg is really risky, and Shane has the best chance of whoopin Floyd. I want to see that fight more than anyother.

[BANKY]

fiction, you have a classic case of floyd nuthuggery.
It's all good.

Also, i wasn't saying anything about floyd because he's black, you just got offended because i pointed out that he was black. Had he been mexican and I said, doesn't that just strike you as typical of the young mexican cholo to not be their for his kids, you wouldn't have said richard.

That's the truth. You can back up your bs family excuse. You can back up your comments about how you think what im saying is dumb or less than what i usually write. You can say whatever you want.

At this point, i've been watching boxing far to long and reading way too much of it to actually give your less than educated pov much credence. Thanks, but no thanks.

And, to deezy, floyd would not have beat cotto or margarito. Believe that.
I know its your opinion, but be real, what has floyd ever shown you to actually believe that. He maybe could win a decision, if he ran enough. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.

[TDEEZY58]

And, to deezy, floyd would not have beat cotto or margarito. Believe that.
I know its your opinion, but be real, what has floyd ever shown you to actually believe that. He maybe could win a decision, if he ran enough. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.


Like you said if he ran enough. The only problem is he'd Especially against Margarito. He'd get on his bike and Margarito would chase him around for 12 rounds and never catch him. He'd pot shot all night long. If Cotto was able to land such clean shots Floyd won't have any problem hitting him. he couldn't hurt him at all. I'm not saying that I agree with that strategy but that's the only way he could win.

My opinion of him being Cotto mainly is based on his talent and his ability when he decides to let his hands go. I think in a fight with Cotto its something he would consider doing because as we just saw Cotto doesn't fight that well going backwards.

[TDEEZY58]

Am I being harsh? three different moms for four kids and one of em was twins. that doesn't reek of hypocrisy? Even if he provides monetarily, you think he takes em to da club?

I can't pass judgment on people that easy. I've got my faults just like everybody else but I fortunate enough that mine aren't laid out for the public to criticize on a message board. For me I can't really fault him for not staying with any of the women that he children with because I don't know the situation. You may know more about his relationship status with these women than me. I know his kids are millionaires and they can do anything they want in life because of what he did in the ring. If you think he spends all of his time in the club you know him a lot better than I do because the professional athletes that I have come into contact with don't party as much as you think they do. Based on what I saw on 24/7 your analysis of him as a father is pretty far off-base. His kids looked well fed and seemed to enjoy the company of their father.


Isn't that just stereotypical of a young black urban athlete/rapper TYPE, fathering that many children and not staying with the momma?

I don't think you automatically make that assumption. There are a lot of rappers and athletes that stayed with the mother of their children because a lot of them were born before they made it big. A lot of these athletes and rappers do what they do for their children. They might not tell you that but its true.

I'm not the most religious guy, but i do believe in personal responsibility. When do you start holding floyd accountable for his persona outside of the ring?

Most people realize that they way Floyd acts when he's selling a fight is completely different when the cameras are off. Nobody acts like that 24/7.

Boxing is about legacy. it's not about money.

Boxing is a business and its been a business for a while. Why do you think Margarito wants to fight De La Hoya so bad? It damn sure ain't for a legacy. A win over De La Hoya does nothing but put 7 to 8 figures in his pocket.

[Goodfella2279]

Bottom line: If Floyd shuts his mouth about being the GOAT, then I don't have a problem with him. Floyd keeps his gums flapping, then he better step up and fight Margarito or even Cotto. Otherwise, all it is is talk.

[TDEEZY58]

Bottom line: If Floyd shuts his mouth about being the GOAT, then I don't have a problem with him. Floyd keeps his gums flapping, then he better step up and fight Margarito or even Cotto. Otherwise, all it is is talk.


He retired. When have you heard him say he was the GOAT in a serious conversation? Usually its when he's selling a fight. He ain't the GOAT so does it really matter if he thinks/says he is when boxing doesn't?

[Goodfella2279]

The only reason it matters is that I feel like he's disrespecting all of the great fighters that came before him. The ones that fought all those availiable to them. And I have read about him claiming his greatness since he's been retired. Like I said in an earlier post. Floyd does go on my all time great list. But if you are going to talk smack about being the best, you need to prove it. That's all. Talk is cheap. Ali said he was the greatest and then went out and proved it.

[TDEEZY58]

I have read about him claiming his greatness since he's been retired.

In which publications? The only interview I've heard him involved in was the whole HBO racism crap which was complete B.S. Other than the HBO thing he's kept his mouth shut. there have been articles written by others about him. Post some links of some recent articles, in where he isn't trying to sell a fight.

Here's the thing. Floyd doesn't have anybody besides Ellerbe that will agree with him on his claim. Roger wouldn't even call him the greatest and that's his family. If nobody's backing him on it than so what? Maybe a Hall of Famer, like Frazier, Foreman, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, needs to go to him and tell him to shut his mouth. I suspect the reason they haven't is because they don't take his claim as credible or serious. You act past great fighters are threatened by the words that come out of his mouth.

[Fiction]

fiction, you have a classic case of floyd nuthuggery.
It's all good.

Also, i wasn't saying anything about floyd because he's black, you just got offended because i pointed out that he was black. Had he been mexican and I said, doesn't that just strike you as typical of the young mexican cholo to not be their for his kids, you wouldn't have said richard.

That's the truth. You can back up your bs family excuse. You can back up your comments about how you think what im saying is dumb or less than what i usually write. You can say whatever you want.

At this point, i've been watching boxing far to long and reading way too much of it to actually give your less than educated pov much credence. Thanks, but no thanks.

And, to deezy, floyd would not have beat cotto or margarito. Believe that.
I know its your opinion, but be real, what has floyd ever shown you to actually believe that. He maybe could win a decision, if he ran enough. You know it and I know it and everyone knows it.


Out the gate Banky, you don't know what race I am to any extent. So if he was Mexican you couldn't tell me what I wouldn't say. You don't know me as a person to know what I'd stand for. So miss me with that concept. I made no attempts to hide that I'm a Floyd fan but unlike so many other "nut huggers" I point out his flaws as a boxer/entertainer.

I don't agree with everything that man does as far as his boxing practice goes but I'm not gonna attack his personal life to justify my dislike for him if indeed I had it. I'm not a De La Hoya fan but I could bring up some pretty random crap about him. I do respect the man as a boxer and for what he's done in the ring. Lastly my dude, who are you to say my view is less than educated becuase it doesn't match up with yours? That's a silly *** statement. I've been watching boxing since I was 10....... That's about 18 years. I read Ring Magazine, I read blogs, stay on ESPN, check out Maxboxing etc....etc..... but that doesn't make me a know it all. I said your view was dumb becuase a chunk of your arguement was based on his life outside the ring.

Even with those years of boxing observance, I still learn more every week. Although I didn't start really paying attention unitl I was 13 that's still a fairly long time for anyone to follow something with so much love for more than half of their life. We have a simple disagreement on Floyd my friend but we'd agree on more than we would probably disagree on. Keep the bs comments away from my name, because unlike a lot of people that post on this site, I do know what I'm talking about (most of the time):rotfl:

[SmoothSexxy]

This dude Fiction is hillarious. He stays cool no matter what. He doesn't take himself too seriously like some folk. Banky you have some intresting points but I think between Fiction and TDeezy those personal attacks you've made got tossed out the door. Floyd should have cleaned out his divison and none of us would be typing what we are typing now. Plain and Simple. I think Cotto would get beat by Floyd, but believe Mayweather would lose to Margarito. I actually flip-flop on the Margarito fight. Dude just doesn't get hurt, and you need to hurt that man to keep him off you. Since we do have some really knowledgeable people on here, what do you guys think of Berto? I like dude personally but he seems to get alot of unwarranted crap from folk? I don't know why? I have a theory but, I want to know what some of you guys think.

[BANKY]

Berto, untested and picking opponents.

Forbes? Mikki rodriguez? He's a champion and the time for soft touches is over. He needs to fight someone that deserves a crack at the title. There is no time for seasoning once you have the strap around your waist.

We'll see how he does going forward but i got a bad feeling about his chin. We shall see.

[Fiction]

^^^^^^
Pretty much sums it up. Also not sure about his chin.

I like Berto, but i wish he would have had another year or so to polish up on the middle tier boxers. Having a belt isn't all what it's cracked up to be when you're still developing. He's a real target now and Clottey knows it for damn sure. We'll see how he does on Forbes. I laughed my ***** off when he caught the Fonze's stunt double with that clean hook-uppercut combo. Even Rodriguez had to say wow. I love mh HD-DVR.

[TDEEZY58]

He's untested and now he's got a bullseye on his back because he's got one of the belts. Fighting Forbes gives him some experience against a solid vet but it doesn't really test his chin against a puncher. He may have a belt but I don't he can be put in the same class as Cotto, Margarito, Williams, or Clottey.

[SmoothSexxy]

I don't put him in the same class either. I think he could be one day, but having that belt at the moment I think will hinder his progress. Berto would get blasted by the top 4 welters easy. In a year or two, if things go well of course, and his progression is solid, I think he could beat anyone of those guys except mayber Marg. Don't see that one.