Top 25 PGs - Rashidi vs 2K

[Rashidi]

Check out my blog and let me know whether or not my ratings are better or worse!


THE REAL 2K INSIDER'S RATINGS (Rashidi)
96 – Chris Paul
95 – Steve Nash
94 – Gilbert Arenas
93 – Deron Williams
92 – Chauncey Billups
91 – Baron Davis
91 – Jason Kidd
90 – Tony Parker
87 – Jose Calderon
86 – T.J. Ford
85 – Andre Miller
85 – Devin Harris
85 – Kirk Hinrich
85 – Maurice Williams
84 – Mike Bibby
83 – Raymond Felton
82 – Monta Ellis
82 – Jameer Nelson
82 – Rajon Rondo
81 – Rafer Alston
81 – Jamaal Tinsley
81 – Derrick Rose
80 – Stephon Marbury
80 – Brevin Knight
79 – Derek Fisher

NBA 2K9 DEFAULTS
99 – Chris Paul
95 – Steve Nash
95 – Gilbert Arenas
94 – Deron Williams
94 – Baron Davis
92 – Jason Kidd
90 – Chauncey Billups
89 – Monta Ellis
88 – Tony Parker
87 – Jose Calderon
85 – Mike Bibby
84 – T.J. Ford
84 – Kirk Hinrich
84 – Maurice Williams
83 – Devin Harris
83 – Rajon Rondo
82 – Jamaal Tinsley
81 – Andre Miller
81 – Raymond Felton
81 – Rafer Alston
80 – Derrick Rose
80 – Jameer Nelson
80 – Stephon Marbury
79 - Jerryd Bayless
79 - Louis Williams

Couple of notes...

My ratings were done on the 2k8 build. If anyone wants to let me know where to get the game early, let me know asap :)

I actually raised the ratings of Deron Williams, yet he has a worse overall than the listed 2k9 rating. This leads me to believe Deron has an offensive clutch rating of about 75 in 2k9. Clutch ratings are hidden and uneditable, even though we've only been calling for that to change for the last FIVE YEARS (Bravo 2k). Moving along...

Monta Ellis had some ridiculous ratings. He still rates an 85 as a shooting guard and is still an elite scorer, but his PG skills are nothing short of abominable until he shows otherwise. I love Monta but his averages are not that great considering he played for high octane Golden State. He is a top 10-15 SG in the league, but he is absolutely not a top 10 PG.

The same players make up the top 23 in both lists. I'll say this about 2k - they aren't anywhere near as bad as they were 3-5 years ago.

Brevin Knight and Derek Fisher are both 78 default in 2k9, tied for 28th with 4 other PGs. Jerryd Bayless[b] and [b]Louis Williams on the other hand I dropped a point each to 78, where they are currently tied with 7 PGs for 28th place.

Finally, it should be noted that no free agent point guards were included, as no free agent PG ratings were listed by any sources. Delonte West and Sam Cassell could be in the 2k9 top 25 although I'm leaning against it.

Overall rating isn't everything, but for all intents and purposes it will suffice for now. To see the detailed attributes, to download my roster via 2k share on 10/7/08!

[Flya24]

Yours are better but Billups is fine with 90. Dwill and CP3 should be 1 rate different, I'd say CP3 95 and Dwill 94.

Anyway good job man.

[Rashidi]

Yours are better but Billups is fine with 90. Dwill and CP3 should be 1 rate different, I'd say CP3 95 and Dwill 94.

Anyway good job man.

My ratings will probably have D-Will a 95 PG in 2k9. In 2k8 it only comes to 93 for previously mentioned reason (clutch rating).

[volantPenguin]

I'm glad for 2k Share, I've been manually editing for a while >_<

[teebone21]

as long as you give Jose Calderon the respect he deserves you are alright with me. Many of these kids like paul and other flashy players but this guy does things CP3 cant do. he is one of the top PG in the league in my book

[topotamolder]

as long as you give Jose Calderon the respect he deserves you are alright with me. Many of these kids like paul and other flashy players but this guy does things CP3 cant do. he is one of the top PG in the league in my book

I feel ya :thumbsup:

[Future 23]

as long as you give Jose Calderon the respect he deserves you are alright with me. Many of these kids like paul and other flashy players but this guy does things CP3 cant do. he is one of the top PG in the league in my book



yea you are right and the raptors signed him for a bargain price... he is an going to blow up as the full time starter this year..

[BrooklynNets24]

TJ Ford an 86= fail
i agree with the rest though

[Future 23]

TJ Ford an 86= fail
i agree with the rest though


agree about TJ i mean since when does a point guard who cant guard anyone or make a shot get such a high rating.. oh wait.. jason kidd haha

[Rashidi]

TJ Ford an 86= fail

Explain plz

[OkcThunder]

i dont think i will be able to get ur rosters, I have PS3. This sucks Rashidi, Id rather have yours..

[Knote3]

Brevin Knight is not better than Derek Fisher..........
Dude is a scrub..............

[Jsnwwf is my gamertag]

how can nash be that high with bad defense?

Bibby should be a 86

[freelimesforsale]

96 overall for Chris Paul.

What do you plan on lowering? His passing? His speed? Maybe his steals rating?

I'll be rating my players based on the stats they'll produce, not some phony idea of what their overall rating "should" be.

[teebone21]

maybe off topic but mcgrady has a midrgange of 78 and a 3point of 80 WTF is going on with 2k?

[Rashidi]

i dont think i will be able to get ur rosters, I have PS3. This sucks Rashidi, Id rather have yours..

I will have a PS3 by the end of the month. Don't worry.

[Rashidi]

Brevin Knight is not better than Derek Fisher..........
Dude is a scrub..............

Derek Fisher only seems good because he plays in the triangle. Put him on any other team and he struggles. His is a weak playmaker.

Brevin Knight is leagues better at running an offense. Were you paying attention when he was on the Bobcats?

They are polar opposites. Fisher is the better shooter and Knight would be a god awful fit in the triangle. Fisher has never averaged more than 4.4 assists, while Knight averaged exactly that last year in a bench role. (In fact, he has failed to record 4.4 apg only twice in his career).

Knight spent his career playing for the Hawks, Grizzlies, Bobcats, and Clippers all teams with little media coverage. So you'll have to excuse him for not being shoved down our throats like Fisher has been his entire Laker career.

[Rashidi]

96 overall for Chris Paul.

What do you plan on lowering? His passing? His speed? Maybe his steals rating?

I'll be rating my players based on the stats they'll produce, not some phony idea of what their overall rating "should" be.

I completely agree, which is why I lowered his absurdly high defensive awareness! Because based on the stats produced, he is not the top defensive PG in the NBA!

I don't go into this with "phony ideas".
You seem to be implying his production is 4-5 overall points better than Steve Nash or Deron Williams.
To me, that's about as phony as it gets.

[Rashidi]

how can nash be that high with bad defense?

Easy. He's the best offensive PG in basketball, period. If he had any semblance of defense he'd be a 99 without a doubt.


Bibby should be a 86

Based on...? His porous defense? Or his inability to finish at the rim?

Sad but true#1 - Atlanta was just as mediocre after they picked up Bibby
Sad but true#2 - Their defense got even worse after picking him up (i.e. canceling the offensive gain).

[allan002001]

I will have a PS3 by the end of the month. Don't worry.

OMG... That just made my day. :dance:

[Knote3]

Derek Fisher only seems good because he plays in the triangle. Put him on any other team and he struggles. His is a weak playmaker.

Brevin Knight is leagues better at running an offense. Were you paying attention when he was on the Bobcats?

They are polar opposites. Fisher is the better shooter and Knight would be a god awful fit in the triangle. Fisher has never averaged more than 4.4 assists, while Knight averaged exactly that last year in a bench role. (In fact, he has failed to record 4.4 apg only twice in his career).

Knight spent his career playing for the Hawks, Grizzlies, Bobcats, and Clippers all teams with little media coverage. So you'll have to excuse him for not being shoved down our throats like Fisher has been his entire Laker career.

Wrong, Derek Fisher had his 3 most productive seasons when he was not on the Lakers....
Brevin Knight could not find decent playing time on the Clippers as he was getting outplayed by Dan Dickau(DANFREAKINGDICKAU), and that Bobcats team(How many games did they win that year?)

Not to mention Derek Fisher can hit a 3-pointer and is one of the most clutch PG's in the game, he is also an Iron man and hasn't missed a game in 3 years while Brevin Knight is one of the most fragile players in the league

Every single coach in the entire NBA would start Derek Fisher way in front of Brevin Knight.......

And by the way, Derek Fisher is also "one of the best defensive PG's in the league" (Jerry Sloan)


If you can not see this than do not even bother posting back, anyone with any "real" basketball knowledge knows this to be true............

[Knote3]

And by the way,

It is no coincidence that Brevin has played on 8 different teams.............

I strongly question your basketball IQ........

[Dresta]

I completely agree, which is why I lowered his absurdly high defensive awareness! Because based on the stats produced, he is not the top defensive PG in the NBA!

I don't go into this with "phony ideas".
You seem to be implying his production is 4-5 overall points better than Steve Nash or Deron Williams.
To me, that's about as phony as it gets.
Your wrong actually, CP3 probably has the best defensive awareness of any pg in the nba, it's just his size that limits him on defense. Also comparably with Deron you have Nash rated too high, i would have CP3 97 D-will 96 and Nash 93 or 4 maybe.

[in dumars we trust]

Stuckey will be up there in the teens by end of the season.

[ellis]

yo the game ain't even out yet... how will we know if ratings are good or not til then??

[JeJ8523]

Rashidi's ratings kinda suck. They only reason people approve of his ratings are because 2K rated EVERYONE either too high or low according to our opinions. They made the game so I'm sure they know how the ratings play into game-generated stats. There's a reason you aren't the 2K Insider.

I think if Kobe is a 99 because he is the "best" SG why can't CP3 be a 99 as the "best" PG? All the "best" players at each position should be a 99 unless is undeterminable who's clearly the best.

Kobe, James, Paul, Garnett(?), Howard

[OkcThunder]

I will have a PS3 by the end of the month. Don't worry.


oh damn thanks bro!!!

[Rashidi]

Wrong, Derek Fisher had his 3 most productive seasons when he was not on the Lakers....

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fishede01.html

His scoring and assists went MARGINALLY up at the expense of his FG%. He especially wasn't a great fit in Utah. Meanwhile this year was easily one of his top 3 seasons, so I fail to see how he was more productive Post/Pre-Lakers.

Brevin Knight could not find decent playing time on the Clippers as he was getting outplayed by Dan Dickau

Knight: 22.2 mpg
Dickau: 15.5 mpg

and that Bobcats team(How many games did they win that year?)

Brevin Knight per 36 mins (CAREER): 10.8 pts, 9.0 ast, 2.4 stl.
Jose Calderon per 36 mins (2008): 13.4 pts, 9.8 ast, 1.4 stl

Knight's best years came with the Cats. But please don't pretend he hasn't been doing it awhile. As I said, he's one of the best there is at running an offense. If he could score at the rim or from long-range, well, remind me again what would seperate him from a Calderon?

Not to mention Derek Fisher can hit a 3-pointer and is one of the most clutch PG's in the game

While Knight can log double the assists with ease. Which is more important for a PG in a non-triangle offense?

he is also an Iron man and hasn't missed a game in 3 years while Brevin Knight is one of the most fragile players in the league

I agree, and the minute 2k incorporates stamina or durability into overall rating you just might find Fisher ahead of Knight!

Every single coach in the entire NBA would start Derek Fisher way in front of Brevin Knight.......

Except the ones who need their starting PG to handle the ball 50% of the game and set their teammates up.

Knight has started 423 of 655 games. He has played for 8 teams during that span.
Fisher has started 423 of 864 games. He has played for 3 teams during that span. He started 68 of 156 games for two lottery Warriors teams.

And by the way, Derek Fisher is also "one of the best defensive PG's in the league" (Jerry Sloan)

So is Brevin Knight. Who will now be playing for Sloan.


If you can not see this than do not even bother posting back, anyone with any "real" basketball knowledge knows this to be true............

In summary: OMG I DONT AGREE W/YOU THEREFORE YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING. Yawn.

[Tell22]

how can Arenas still be the 4th best PG when he barely played last season and had THREE knee surgeries in 1 1/2 years??

[ellis]

Rashidi's ratings kinda suck. They only reason people approve of his ratings are because 2K rated EVERYONE either too high or low according to our opinions. They made the game so I'm sure they know how the ratings play into game-generated stats. There's a reason you aren't the 2K Insider.

I think if Kobe is a 99 because he is the "best" SG why can't CP3 be a 99 as the "best" PG? All the "best" players at each position should be a 99 unless is undeterminable who's clearly the best.

Kobe, James, Paul, Garnett(?), Howard


yeah agreed. we don't know how the ratings will translate to the gameplay until we play the game. after a few weeks of playing the game we'll know for sure what ratings may need some tweaking.

[Rashidi]

Your wrong actually, CP3 probably has the best defensive awareness of any pg in the nba

O RLY?

Care to back that up?

Based on reports I've read, he is about average. His only top notch defensive attribute is his stealing.

[Rashidi]

yo the game ain't even out yet... how will we know if ratings are good or not til then??

Easy. Because we can look at the ratings and say things like "Wait, why is Devin Harris only a 76 defensive awareness when Chris Paul is a 94?"

Balancing the ratings to reflect the NBA while maintaining gameplay integrity is tougher than it looks, but ultimately fulfilling.

[RapboY]

chauncey billups definitely NOT a 92..

[Rashidi]

They made the game so I'm sure they know how the ratings play into game-generated stats.

Actually, most anybody who has actually played more than one 2k game at length will disagree with you. I've been doing these edits since 2k3, and take it from me - you are giving them far too much credit.

They can't even get a demo out a week before the game releases, and they are video game developers. What makes you think they know NBA players?

There's a reason you aren't the 2K Insider.

Yeah. I don't live in California and haven't been working for 2K Sports for 5 years.

I think if Kobe is a 99 because he is the "best" SG why can't CP3 be a 99 as the "best" PG? All the "best" players at each position should be a 99 unless is undeterminable who's clearly the best.

Was Nash a 99 when he won two MVPs?

If Paul becomes an all-nba defensive player the way Jason Kidd was most of his career, and continues to improve his jumper, he'll be a 99.

Kobe, James, Paul, Garnett(?), Howard

Howard is a 93 overall. So let me get this straight, you think CP3 should be rated 6 points higher than Dwight Howard?

[Ishmael From Ova Da Hill]

Arguing over overall ratings is just ignorant. If most of these people seen the individual rating edits you do, they would probably agree with them (if they actually know how to rate players properly). Seriously, most of the people on here don't even know how the rating system even works...the majority of these people still think layup is how good you are at scoring layups.

[Mr.Clutch_Knicks12]

I think both of you guys overrated Hinrich, and Rondo.

[h0merg0mez]

I can't tell if anyone's ratings are accurate or not with just one overall value...there's too many aspects to the game. I think it's all about what kind of stats they produce when the game is simulated, and if that is accurate to real life.

[hulyan]

I'm glad for 2k Share, I've been manually editing for a while >_<

amen to that.

[portlandblazer]

I can't tell if anyone's ratings are accurate or not with just one overall value...there's too many aspects to the game. I think it's all about what kind of stats they produce when the game is simulated, and if that is accurate to real life.the problem with that line of thinking is that not everything shows up in the stat book. meaning some players are very good at little things that there are no stats for. but i agree that people get too hung up on overall ratings.

[R1cc4rd00]

Great job Rashidi, the beauty of the game is the fact that you can edit the players by yourself. When you disagree with a rating of a player, just edit ! I think Jason Kidd is an 87-89, Hinrich an 80, Rose an 85, Rondo 79-80,

[Reggie2455]

I totally argee with your Ratings

[Handz19]

I've been using your player edits for a while, but I really use them for people who have improved over the season noticeably, ex. Louis Williams (76ers), i never decreased a persons ratings though, but after I realized I can beat good people wit sorry teams, my attitude now is WTF is a rating? but for the most part Rashidi=Accuracy

[dontpraisemikewang]

seriously wat is with this board and overrating gilbert arenas

[dontpraisemikewang]

deron is waay better than gil

[Reggie2455]

I just got done reading your blog. Great Read bruh! I will be using your Living Rosters.

[Handz19]

I would pick D Will (better overall PG) over Gil, but when ya want somebody to light it up AGENT ZERO!!!!!!

[Reggie2455]

Your wrong actually, CP3 probably has the best defensive awareness of any pg in the nba, it's just his size that limits him on defense. Also comparably with Deron you have Nash rated too high, i would have CP3 97 D-will 96 and Nash 93 or 4 maybe.

Watching Team USA this summer, Chris Paul is not a great defender. Paul looked terrible against Australia's Mills Patrick. He constantly like Mills beat him off the dribble and Paul could not keep up with him away from the ball. A lot of his steal come off playing the passing lane during the NBA season. Remember how Tony Parker kept attacking Paul in the Playoffs? Back to the Olympics, Juan Carlos Narvarro shot off on Chris Paul that 2nd half to get Spain back in the game. Chris Paul is the Best PG in the NBA but his defensive awareness should not be high because he leaded the league in steals.

[NTG]

rashidi....r u gonna post your stuff on 2k share?

[Mr.Clutch_Knicks12]

Of course he is. Rashidi has been doing rating edits since like NBA 2k3(Or 2k5, I don't know, I just don't.)

[Rashidi]

Regarding CP3's defense

He is a good help defender, and he helps on literally every rotation, look.ing for any and every opportunity to steal the ball (which he is by far the best in the league at). He doesn't fight very hard to get over screens, and he rarely contests shots. That's in addition to the fact that he is small, although he isn't as easy to outmuscle as his small stature would imply, he sure isn't capable of guarding bigger players like the top defensive guards in the league. His man to man defense is not nearly as tenacious as Devin Harris, Keyon Dooling, or even his former backup Jannero Pargo (who is going to be missed the moment Mike James comes off the bench to give Paul a breather).

All in all, a 94 is absolutely ridiculous when you consider that's only 5 points worse than Bruce Bowen. Paul is young and still has some growing to do as a player. He will improve defensively as he gets older. He might be worthy of a 94 one day, but he most certainly isn't now.

[Rashidi]

deron is waay better than gil

Deron is way better than injured/hobbled Gilbert Arenas. He is not way better than 29 ppg + 6 apg Gilbert Arenas.

It remains to be seen which Arenas the Wizards re-signed.

[Rashidi]

I appreciate the comments so far guys, keep em coming.

I'm gonna start working on the centers. Truth be told the PG ratings are always 2k's most accurate, it's the centers who are easily the worst every year.

[chessboxer1]

real quick though can you break down your kirk heinrich rating, why is he an 85?

[Flya24]

Plz Rashidi CB4 is definitely not 3 rates less than Howard. also Bynum is not even in the 80's I'd say 79-80.

[All3nIv3rson]

Get a life Rashidi . Your ratings obviously suc* *** . You aren't a game developper and you don't have any idea how they work . get a real job , wannabe-insider ...

[Flya24]

Get a life Rashidi . Your ratings obviously suc* *** . You aren't a game developper and you don't have any idea how they work . get a real job , wannabe-insider ...

Show some respect kid.

[chessboxer1]

Get a life Rashidi . Your ratings obviously suc* *** . You aren't a game developper and you don't have any idea how they work . get a real job , wannabe-insider ...

how about you find something better to do with your time than put other people down for doing good hard work. 2K tries to hard to please the players in the game and markets too much to the average fan now. Rashidi does a great service to sim ballers and people that actually care about how these players are really rated...

[oOausarOo]

Arenas is an unknown right now. I can't blame Rashidi or 2k for having him rated where he is, but he's going to have to come back sometime this season to earn that rating.

[Rashidi]

Plz Rashidi CB4 is definitely not 3 rates less than Howard.

???
Howard is a 93 at default. Paul at a 96 is 3 points higher, not 3 points less.

[Rashidi]

Get a life Rashidi . Your ratings obviously suc* *** . You aren't a game developper and you don't have any idea how they work . get a real job , wannabe-insider ...

Actually, I have a real job :)

And actualy, I do have a pretty good idea of how the ratings work. It only takes about a day or two of experimenting and analyzing, which I got out of the way four years ago. Game developing has nothing to do with scouting nba players.

[Rashidi]

Arenas is an unknown right now. I can't blame Rashidi or 2k for having him rated where he is, but he's going to have to come back sometime this season to earn that rating.

On that note, my patience with Arenas is starting to wear a bit thin. I am assuming he will have a larger body of work this year than last. There comes a point when injuries aren't a temporary detriment to your game. If those knees rob him of his explosiveness I'm not going to assume that's coming back the following year, as his career is really starting to take the Penny Hardaway path.

[AgentTurner0]

u guys are overreacting to gilberts injury its not like hes been out the whole season for the past 2 years cuz he only missed the the playoffs of the 07 season then he played the preseason games and a few regular season games and then he had to have another surgery cause of the doctors not rehabing him right so he had to sit 4 a while then he came back at the end of the season and then played a few games in the playoffs and sat out the rest of the playoffs cause he felt like he was hurting the team more than he was helping by him not being 100%. so now he had bad doctors again cause he just has the surgery and he gota miss until december mayb early january so its really no big deal cause they are still a good team without gil and can make the playoffs cause they did last year but they need him 2 be a contender

and on the reatings part of this thread rashidi u sure are smart why would even go against the ratings they did they gona do wat they want to regardless of what ur ratings are but they gona do wat they wanna do now i do agree with you that the ratings are a bit silly this year wit 4 ppl 99 overall now and last year they didnt have anybody 99 so it aint makin 2 much sense to me tho

[Rashidi]

Top 10 by Conference

EAST
94 Gilbert Arenas
92 Chauncey Billups
87 Jose Calderon (gets all-star consideration in east, but he'd never make it out west)
86 T.J. Ford
85 Andre Miller
85 Devin Harris
85 Kirk Hinrich
85 Maurice Williams
84 Mike Bibby
83 Raymond Felton

WEST
96 Chris Paul
95 Steve Nash
93 Deron Williams (likely 95 w/2k9 clutch)
91 Baron Davis
91 Jason Kidd
90 Tony Parker
82 Monta Ellis
81 Rafer Alston
80 Brevin Knight
79 Derek Fisher

West as the top PGs but the east is considerably deeper (East 11-15 are better than west's 9 and 10).

Again I'll note that I have yet to rate Foye, Conley, or Udrih but that wouldn't change anything here.

7/8 of the west's playoff PGs are in the top 10 (the absentee being lowly Anthony Carter).

The east is a bit trickier. You can only count one of Calderon/Ford as a playoff PG. Arenas missed the majority of the year, came off the bench in the playoffs, and shut himself down (so really, he doesn't count either. Hence, only 4/8 playoff PGs are in the east's top 10. Rondo and Nelson miss out just barely (11 and 12), while Delonte West and Antonio Daniels aren't really close.

The west PGs are veteran heavy, while the east counterparts are a bit younger and playing for rebuilding teams... although it goes without saying that the best two young PGs in the league also play in the west (so much for future parity). Five of the west's top 10 PGs are on the wrong side of 30 (and Baron is 29), compared to only two for the east.

[All3nIv3rson]

Actually, I have a real job :)

And actualy, I do have a pretty good idea of how the ratings work. It only takes about a day or two of experimenting and analyzing, which I got out of the way four years ago. Game developing has nothing to do with scouting nba players.

i'm not talking about scouting NBA players . I'm saying that you didn't develop this game , how can you know how the ratings affect every single aspect of the gameplay ? You can only guess . I prefer letting professionals do the job , srry .

[Rashidi]

I'm saying that you didn't develop this game , how can you know how the ratings affect every single aspect of the gameplay ? You can only guess . I prefer letting professionals do the job , srry .

LOL.... uh, I've only spent thousands of hours editing ratings over the last six years. I know how the ratings affect the gameplay better than they do. You are acting like they are a difficult concept to grasp. It's not like learning a second language, or calculus, or driving stick.

There are people at Operation Sports who have gone at great length to analyze every gameplay detail related to the ratings and tendencies. So believe me, being a game developer does not make one infallible.

Point blank, if the developers were good at the ratings, my work wouldn't be anywhere near as popular or known as it is now. I would have given up after a year if nobody cared.

Btw, I heard from someone who got the game early that all those players they gave high 3pt ratings just don't miss. Another prime example of the developers not understanding their own ratings.

Anyway, if you have something more to offer than a baseless opinion, I'd be glad to hear it.

[Rednroll]

Since we're talking about the "overall" rating, then they should correlate more with these PER rankings.....but since neither of these "insiders" correlate with the PER then they're both "phony". They both look wrong to me. I'm also not sure how Jason Kidd is rated so high after coming off one of his worst seasons of his carreer.....but oh well....you guys are the so called "self proclaimed" experts.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s210/rednroll/Junk/PG_PER.jpg

[Rashidi]

Genius, do you even know what PER is?


PER strives to measure a player's per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace. A league-average PER is always 15.00, which permits comparisons of player performance across seasons.

PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.


Problems With PER
PER largely measures offensive performance. Hollinger freely admits that two of the defensive statistics it incorporates -- blocks and steals -- can produce a distorted picture of a player's value and that PER is not a reliable measure of a player's defensive acumen. For example, Bruce Bowen, widely regarded as one of the best defenders in the NBA (at least through the 2006-07 season), has routinely posted single-digit PERs.


Neither PER nor per-game statistics take into account such intangible elements as competitive drive, leadership, durability, conditioning, or hustle, largely because there is no real way to measure these things, which are often based on opinion and hearsay.

In addition, some have argued that PER gives undue weight to a player's contribution in limited minutes, or against a team's second unit, and it undervalues players who have enough diversity in their game to play starter's minutes.


Coming from a non-expert like myself, it's a good thing neither ranking looks anything like the PER list.

Better luck next time!

[Rashidi]

One has to wonder, were you actually implying...

Louis Williams > Jason Kidd?
TJ Ford > Tony Parker and Baron Davis?
Jordan Farmar, Nate Robinson, and Earl Watson > Mike Bibby and Kirk Hinrich?

Thanks for the biggest failure we've seen in awhile.
For a monotonous guy like myself, I almost wanted to giggle.

[BadWolf]

A few thoughts.
Kidd fell a lot last year, he's not all that good anymore. He might bounce back a bit this year as he's more familiar with Dallas' system.
Rondo is to low, his shooting sux but other aspects of the game should put him a few points higher.
Chauncey is a bit high, Miller is a bit low, he had a great year in 07/08.

[Rednroll]

And yet you base your ratings off of a non pace adjusted formula, thus teams who run a slower paced offense are rated lower than when compared to teams that run a faster pace offense. Thus why your ratings will always be wrong, because the players in the game control the "pace" and you are not taking the pace into any consideration in your ratings......Genius!!!

I didn't say the ratings should be "exact" as the PER, but they should correlate closer to the PER ratings so that it would eliminate the discrepancy between players due to stats that do not take into consideration the pace of a game and number of possessions.

[Rashidi]

And yet you base your ratings off of a non pace adjusted formula

Really? And which would that be, Mr. I Know More About Rashidi's Formula's Than He Does?

Cuz last I checked, ALL of my ratings were pace adjusted.

This should be interesting.

[Jeff 2 Nasty]

your roster is a lil better because Baron at 91 impossible

[Rashidi]

I didn't say the ratings should be "exact" as the PER, but they should correlate closer to the PER ratings so that it would eliminate the discrepancy between players due to stats that do not take into consideration the pace of a game and number of possessions.

AGAIN, Hollinger openly admits that PER is not meant to evaluate players, it only relates to statistics, and not intangibles.

Here's a shovel. Tell me which PER component reflects post defense. Start digging.

[Rednroll]

Genius, do you even know what PER is?


PER strives to measure a player's per-minute performance, while adjusting for pace. A league-average PER is always 15.00, which permits comparisons of player performance across seasons.

PER takes into account positive accomplishments, such as field goals, free throws, 3-pointers, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals, and negative ones, such as missed shots, turnovers and personal fouls. The formula adds positive stats and subtracts negative ones through a statistical point value system. The rating for each player is then adjusted to a per-minute basis so that, for example, substitutes can be compared with starters in playing time debates. It is also adjusted for the team's pace. In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.


and yet your "overall" rating tries to accomplish the exact same thing.....so now you're smarter than John Hollinger, as well as the 2K Insider?

Please explain to me in detail how you came up with Jason Kidd's "overall" of 91.....I'm interested in hearing the breakdown of your supposed "formula".

[Rashidi]

and yet your "overall" rating tries to accomplish the exact same thing.....so now you're smarter than John Hollinger, along with the 2K Insider?

OOH OOH, I can play the quoting game too!

In the end, one number sums up the players' statistical accomplishments for that season.

Overall rating is NOT the same thing.

Unless you can pull the statistic used for Post Defense out of your ***, shut yer trap.

And overall rating isn't a formula I invented dear, talk to 2k about that one!

[billbixpy]

See this is why its best to make a system based on hard facts and stats. Because there are just too many elements to consider for anything to ever be perfect.

Come on guys its a videogame, only so much can be taken into account. At least give the guy his credit for going through the trouble and present your arguments in a way where you aint gotta insult each other. In the end nobody is right and no system is perfect...but at the least you got to give it to him for having a system and taking into account all ratings and not just overall.

I mean I dont see anybody else taking the time to do better.

[Rednroll]

See this is why its best to make a system based on hard facts and stats. Because there are just too many elements to consider for anything to ever be perfect.

Come on guys its a videogame, only so much can be taken into account. At least give the guy his credit for going through the trouble and present your arguments in a way where you aint gotta insult each other. In the end nobody is right and no system is perfect...but at the least you got to give it to him for having a system and taking into account all ratings and not just overall.

I mean I dont see anybody else taking the time to do better.

Take notice.....I did not come out insulting him. He's the one who got all defensive because I disagreed with his ratings and gave good hard data behind why I disagreed with them. What else can you ask for in a discussion? He's the one who immediately got all defensive and started with the insults.

[Rashidi]

I disagreed with his ratings and gave good hard data behind why I disagreed with them.

Good hard data =/= flawed and misleading inapplicable data



What else can you ask for in a discussion? He's the one who immediately got all defensive and started with the insults.

Let me ask you something. What was your motive for posting?

You weren't looking for a discussion. Only dummies play dumb.

[Rednroll]

OOH OOH, I can play the quoting game too!



Overall rating is NOT the same thing.

Unless you can pull the statistic used for Post Defense out of your ***, shut yer trap.

And overall rating isn't a formula I invented dear, talk to 2k about that one!

Grow up. :rolleyes: Maybe people will start to listen to you and take you seriously when you get some maturity.

[Rashidi]

Grow up. :rolleyes: Maybe people will start to listen to your and take you seriously when you get some maturity.

Newsflash - people already listen to me and take me seriously.

Can you say the same for yourself?

Btw, great job ignoring the question! LMAO

[Knote3]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fishede01.html

His scoring and assists went MARGINALLY up at the expense of his FG%. He especially wasn't a great fit in Utah. Meanwhile this year was easily one of his top 3 seasons, so I fail to see how he was more productive Post/Pre-Lakers.



Knight: 22.2 mpg
Dickau: 15.5 mpg



Brevin Knight per 36 mins (CAREER): 10.8 pts, 9.0 ast, 2.4 stl.
Jose Calderon per 36 mins (2008): 13.4 pts, 9.8 ast, 1.4 stl

Knight's best years came with the Cats. But please don't pretend he hasn't been doing it awhile. As I said, he's one of the best there is at running an offense. If he could score at the rim or from long-range, well, remind me again what would seperate him from a Calderon?



While Knight can log double the assists with ease. Which is more important for a PG in a non-triangle offense?



I agree, and the minute 2k incorporates stamina or durability into overall rating you just might find Fisher ahead of Knight!



Except the ones who need their starting PG to handle the ball 50% of the game and set their teammates up.

Knight has started 423 of 655 games. He has played for 8 teams during that span.
Fisher has started 423 of 864 games. He has played for 3 teams during that span. He started 68 of 156 games for two lottery Warriors teams.



So is Brevin Knight. Who will now be playing for Sloan.




In summary: OMG I DONT AGREE W/YOU THEREFORE YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING. Yawn.

Lol, dude that is crazy...
From NBA.COM
"Knight is competing with Ronnie Price to be the backup point guard to Deron Williams."
http://www.nba.com/fantasy/fantasy_playernews.jsp


Case closed, Do you think D-Fish would be competing for playing time on the Jazz? In fact he was a starter over there............................

[Knote3]

Newsflash - people already listen to me and take me seriously.



Talk about making an ignorant *** of yourself..........

[Rednroll]

Newsflash - people already listen to me and take me seriously.

Can you say the same for yourself?

Btw, great job ignoring the question! LMAO

I don't know.....why don't you do a little reading and find out for yourself.

Here's some links where people have mentioned my name in discussions and I didn't seem to see your name mentioned in any of them but I'll take your word for it.:rolleyes:
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183795
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183321&page=10
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184390

[Rashidi]

Case closed, Do you think D-Fish would be competing for playing time on the Jazz?

Did you really just type that? OF FREAKIN COURSE! He would not be starting over Deron Williams, and would not be starting over Ronnie Brewer now either. Fisher started at SG with Utah, not PG. Knight would never start at SG, and if anything you've only strengthened my argument that Knight is as good or better at the point than Fisher.

He would be fighting Kyle Korver AND Ronnie Price for minutes.

In fact he was a starter over there............................

Did you know Jazz fans were happy to see Fisher waived for nothing in return? Clearly, he had a real positive impact as a starter, and boy oh boy, did they sure miss him in 2008. Oh wait. I'm lying. Case closed.

[jayrivera3]

Overall, IMO, is the "overall" impact or influence a player can or will have in the game from their respective positions.

Somebody more educated than I can elaborate on this.

It's funny to me how Rednroll thought Overall was a representation of a players stats summed up into a number.

Somebody doesn't play video games in here.

[Rashidi]

I don't know.....why don't you do a little reading and find out for yourself.

Here's some links where people have mentioned my name in discussions and I didn't seem to see your name mentioned in any of them but I'll take your word for it.:rolleyes:
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183795
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183321&page=10
http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184390

LMAO

Those are all topics from 3 weeks ago. I didn't resume posting here until 2 weeks ago.

And not for nothing, I'm just a teensey wee bit more well known than THE 2K SPORTS FORUM LOL. These forums are a laughing stock among the sports gaming community (and you're not doing them any favors).


Searhed for keyword "Rashidi" in this forum. 39 topics popped up. You came up.... Drumnroll...... 5 times.

[jayrivera3]

Dear Real 2K Insider,

How is Deron Williams better than Baron Davis? I don't get that one.
I know Deron Williams can ball and all but, better than Baron Davis?

I thought Baron Davis was a top 3 PG in the league. Is there something that Deron Williams is doing that I'm not aware of? I thought Deron Williams was a slower, weaker and less athletic version of Baron Davis.

Educate me.

[Rashidi]

Dear Real 2K Insider,

How is Deron Williams better than Baron Davis? I don't get that one.
I know Deron Williams can ball and all but, better than Baron Davis?

I thought Baron Davis was a top 3 PG in the league. Is there something that Deron Williams is doing that I'm not aware of? I thought Deron Williams was a slower, weaker and less athletic version of Baron Davis.

Educate me.

Baron and Deron have a lot of similarities as players, though they play in entirely different systems.

Where Deron really has Baron beat is his vastly superior mid-range game.

D. Williams
2008: 147-328 (.448)
2007: 158-329 (.480)
2006: 107-274 (.390)
Total: 412-931 (.442)

The scary part is most of that is off the dribble.

B. Davis
2008: 77-213 (.361)
2007: 55-141 (.390)
2006: 37-130 (284)
2005: 34-105 (.323)
Total: 203-589 (.344)

Ugly, to say the least. The only starting caliber PGs that B-Diddy ranks ahead of are Rafer Alston and Jamaal Tinsley.

[Knote3]

Did you really just type that? OF FREAKIN COURSE! He would not be starting over Deron Williams, and would not be starting over Ronnie Brewer now either. Fisher started at SG with Utah, not PG. Knight would never start at SG, and if anything you've only strengthened my argument that Knight is as good or better at the point than Fisher.

He would be fighting Kyle Korver AND Ronnie Price for minutes.



Did you know Jazz fans were happy to see Fisher waived for nothing in return? Clearly, he had a real positive impact as a starter, and boy oh boy, did they sure miss him in 2008. Oh wait. I'm lying. Case closed.

Jazz fans were happy? :rolleyes:

Again, Every coach in the league would take Derek Fisher over Brevin Knight................

[Skrobes66]

Great work! My only suggestion is that Tony Parker should be ahead of Deron Williams, Billups, Kidd, and B Davis. He is one year removed from being the finals MVP. Also, I hope his 3 rating isnt terrible, because he can actually shoot the 3 well (not great but well). He prefers to shoot inside because of his 90% something percent from just inside the 3 line.

[Rashidi]

Jazz fans were happy? :rolleyes:

http://www.jazzbots.com/web/2007/12/03/the-derek-fisher-controversy/

His play was another matter entirely. He just wasn’t the type point guard well suited to Jerry’s system. He was slow bringing the ball up and putting it into play. Frequently he over dribbled and got caught by the expiring shot clock or forced a shot to beat it. He IS just great for the triangle offense, but NOT in a point guard offense, like the Jazz run.

He isn’t a shooting guard. He’s too short to play good defense on SG’s and doesn’t shoot well enough to punish double teams. His SG minutes denied development of the young Jazz SGs. Jerry had too much respect for him to set him on the bench and let the young talent make some mistakes and get some experience.

His bloated salary had to go, but where? A buyout (over Larry’s dead body), a trade (not likely), then the clouds parted, the light intensified and the deep, sonorous voice of Derek came from on high, saying “let my salary go.” It was like Cecil B. Demille and the 10 commandments.

It wasn’t Derek, the person, the Jazz needed to get rid of, it was his salary, his play and his consumption of developmental minutes that needed to go.

[Drewbs]

Your overrating of Brevin Knight is pretty striking to me. If you're looking at assists, Brevin Knight, but honestly, the Charlotte Bobcats offense was never dangerous and a part of that always started with Brevin's inability to score, how completely ineffective he was when he didn't have the ball in his hands, and how easy it was for defenses to play off of him and double guys like Okafor or Gerald Wallace.

Stephon Marbury averaged 8 apg for a few seasons in a row, yet no one who knows anything about basketball would call him a grade A play maker. Averaging a lot of assists doesn't mean you're a great playmaker or a great point guard. You're a little bit stuck in the mold of traditionalism, especially considering you pretty much rated Monta Ellis the same as ****ing Brevin Knight. You want to knock Ellis as a PG because he doesn't average a bunch of assists and instead takes advantage of his ability to put the ball in the hole better than just about any other starting PG in the league? But I take it you rate Jason Kidd a 91 because he still puts up a lot of assists though right?

How about this, Monta Ellis and his "poor" pg skills is currently running one of the top offensive teams in the league, they score at a phenomenal clip and are efficient in doing so. Jason Kidd's led Mavericks offense is stagnant and currently going nowhere despite having the most dangerous weapons at his disposal in comparison to ANY other point guard in the league. And don't even try to bring up defense, Jason Kidd has not been top tier defensively since 2003.

Seriously, Kirk Hinrich? Raymond Felton? Better than Monta Ellis? I'm a freaking UNC student and have been a fan since I was 6 and I could not even make the argument for Raymond Felton being better than Ellis. You're lumping one of the best scorers and a future all star in with borderline starters like Jameer Nelson, ball hogging malcontents in Jamaal Tinsley, and role players like Rafer Alston.

That being said, your bashing of the "2k Insider" is a little premature. The guy hasn't even started to do his job yet, please let him at least get started before you go proclaiming yourself as the "real" insider or "the one that actually gets the job done."

[Future 23]

Your overrating of Brevin Knight is pretty striking to me. If you're looking at assists, Brevin Knight, but honestly, the Charlotte Bobcats offense was never dangerous and a part of that always started with Brevin's inability to score, how completely ineffective he was when he didn't have the ball in his hands, and how easy it was for defenses to play off of him and double guys like Okafor or Gerald Wallace.

Stephon Marbury averaged 8 apg for a few seasons in a row, yet no one who knows anything about basketball would call him a grade A play maker. Averaging a lot of assists doesn't mean you're a great playmaker or a great point guard. You're a little bit stuck in the mold of traditionalism, especially considering you pretty much rated Monta Ellis the same as ****ing Brevin Knight. You want to knock Ellis as a PG because he doesn't average a bunch of assists and instead takes advantage of his ability to put the ball in the hole better than just about any other starting PG in the league? But I take it you rate Jason Kidd a 91 because he still puts up a lot of assists though right?

How about this, Monta Ellis and his "poor" pg skills is currently running one of the top offensive teams in the league, they score at a phenomenal clip and are efficient in doing so. Jason Kidd's led Mavericks offense is stagnant and currently going nowhere despite having the most dangerous weapons at his disposal in comparison to ANY other point guard in the league. And don't even try to bring up defense, Jason Kidd has not been top tier defensively since 2003.

Seriously, Kirk Hinrich? Raymond Felton? Better than Monta Ellis? I'm a freaking UNC student and have been a fan since I was 6 and I could not even make the argument for Raymond Felton being better than Ellis. You're lumping one of the best scorers and a future all star in with borderline starters like Jameer Nelson.

That being said, your bashing of the "2k Insider" is a little premature. The guy hasn't even started to do his job yet, please let him at least get started before you go proclaiming yourself as the "real" insider or "the one that actually gets the job done."\

Co-sign:thumbsup: Rashidi go watch games and stop watching youtube highlight reels

off topic i think 2k should change kobe's block rating to 99 based on my tireless efforts and countless hours of watching game tape.. see for yourselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WFF9SPxqwE

Case closed.. I AM THE REAL 2K INSIDER!!!! :rotfl: your quite the character rashidi

[Rashidi]

Your overrating of Brevin Knight is pretty striking to me. If you're looking at assists, Brevin Knight, but honestly, the Charlotte Bobcats offense was never dangerous and a part of that always started with Brevin's inability to score, how completely ineffective he was when he didn't have the ball in his hands, and how easy it was for defenses to play off of him and double guys like Okafor or Gerald Wallace.


1. I believe I state in my initial topic that OVERALL RATING IS NOT EVERYTHING.
2. You speak as if Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor are elite scorers. They are far from it. They were also running with "Cats" like Kareem Rush, Primoz Brezec, Jumaine Jones, and Derek Anderson. The Bobcats were not tough to defend and would have been even easier if it weren't for Knight setting them up, taking care of the ball, and creating turnovers leading to transition baskets.
3. Brevin Knight was already a 78 overall, so it's not like I turned him into some beast.

BREVIN KNIGHT
Overall 80 (up from 78)
Close 74 (down from 78)
Med 78 (up from 71)
3pt 53 (up from 50)
FT 81 (down from 87)
Layup 75
Dunk 50
Handle 86
Pass 85 (up from 82)
PostOff 50
PostDef 50
Block 53
Steal 91 (up from 88)
RebOff 56
RebDef 61
Speed 87
Stam 85 (down from 90)
Dur 75 (down from 80)
DefAwr 82
OffAwr 78

Feel free to point out which of my changes are blatantly off.

(I will say I have previously considered lowering Knight's OfffAwr to about 75/76, which is more in line with his decreased Clipper production and would likely drop him a point, but for now it remains. If there is anything else questionable, feel free to let me know).

Stephon Marbury averaged 8 apg for a few seasons in a row, yet no one who knows anything about basketball would call him a grade A play maker.

Stephon Marbury also averaged 20+ points when he averaged that many assists, but that's besides the point. (How many did Ellis average again en route to his 20 points again?)

It's funny that you mentioned Marbury btw, because I have seen Brevin Knight outplay Marbury on numerous occasions.

You want to knock Ellis as a PG because he doesn't average a bunch of assists and instead takes advantage of his ability to put the ball in the hole better than just about any other starting PG in the league? But I take it you rate Jason Kidd a 91 because he still puts up a lot of assists though right?


Hold on a second junior.

It is obvious you have no concept of how overall rating works, and plain to see you didn't READ MY NOTE ON ELLIS IN THE ORIGINAL TOPIC.

Brevin Knight overall rating by position
PG 80
SG 78
SF 75
PF 69
C 66

Monta Ellis by position
PG 82 (-2)
SG 85 (+7)
SF 83 (+8)
PF 77 (+8)
C 73 (+7)

Going by 2k9 defaults, Ellis rated an 88 as a SG, equivalent to Brandon Roy who is far from the worst defensive SG in the league and not a poor 3pt shooter

I won't be holding my breath waiting for your apology.

How about this, Monta Ellis and his "poor" pg skills is currently running one of the top offensive teams in the league, they score at a phenomenal clip and are efficient in doing so.

You seem to have Monta Ellis confused with BARON DAVIS.

Ellis has terrible PG skills which is why he fell to the 2nd round. He is a shoot first PG, and like all shoot first PGs, his rating takes a huge hit when he is not listed at SG. For reference see: Eddie House, Salim Stoudamire, Leandro Barbosa, Sasha Vujacic, and just about every other guard who struggles to handle the ball and involve their teammates.

Jason Kidd's led Mavericks offense is stagnant and currently going nowhere despite having the most dangerous weapons at his disposal in comparison to ANY other point guard in the league.

Read this:

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/09/24/jason-kidd-really-did-help-the-mavericks/

And don't even try to bring up defense, Jason Kidd has not been top tier defensively since 2003.

Surely you'll be able to list the top 10 defensive PGs in the league then for our comparison? Ellis btw, has NEVER been top tier defensively. Actually, he has never been better than bottom 5 in the league. 2k meanwhile gave him 83 defawr which any Warriors fan (myself included) would laugh at.

Seriously, Kirk Hinrich? Raymond Felton? Better than Monta Ellis?

At running a team? Hell yes. Have you seen Ellis run the point? There's a reason it's being referred to as an experiment.

I'm a freaking UNC student and have been a fan since I was 6 and I could not even make the argument for Raymond Felton being better than Ellis.

Neither could I. It's a good thing I previously stated that

A. Overall doesn't tell the whole story
B. Ellis is a good player but not a top 10 point guard


please let him at least get started before you go proclaiming yourself as the "real" insider or "the one that actually gets the job done."

My recent signature change was at the moderator's request, since they seem to think I am impersonating a 2K Employee.

[Rashidi]

It is amusing to me how quick people here are to whine and cry about things they don't like, rather than try to improve upon things.

I didn't like NBA 2k's ratings so I got off my *** and did something about it. How many of you could do the same?

Anybody who wants to tear down my work, post your own edits for the public to rip apart. It's easy to criticize something without putting in ample time or research (not to mention meaningless). Think you can do a better job? Prove it.

[Kingof2k08]

BOOOOOO wheres the real 2k insider

[Ishmael From Ova Da Hill]

It is amusing to me how quick people here are to whine and cry about things they don't like, rather than try to improve upon things.

I didn't like NBA 2k's ratings so I got off my *** and did something about it. How many of you could do the same?

Anybody who wants to tear down my work, post your own edits for the public to rip apart. It's easy to criticize something without putting in ample time or research (not to mention meaningless). Think you can do a better job? Prove it.

Like I said before, most of the people on this board don't really know how the ratings work or how they're figured. It's almost pointless to try and start a conversation regarding these things on here with all these...creatures.

Something you might want to do to make it easier for you (and the official Insider too for the when the time comes) is write up detailed explanations of the ratings. What they do, how they're calculated, things like that. If you do something like that and get people to read it, you won't have these people getting on here wondering why Monta Ellis's rating dropped by 3 points when you change him to PG. Not to mention, all the other ignorant comments/feedback you and eventually, the Insider, will have to deal with.

[Knote3]

http://www.jazzbots.com/web/2007/12/03/the-derek-fisher-controversy/

His play was another matter entirely. He just wasn’t the type point guard well suited to Jerry’s system. He was slow bringing the ball up and putting it into play. Frequently he over dribbled and got caught by the expiring shot clock or forced a shot to beat it. He IS just great for the triangle offense, but NOT in a point guard offense, like the Jazz run.

He isn’t a shooting guard. He’s too short to play good defense on SG’s and doesn’t shoot well enough to punish double teams. His SG minutes denied development of the young Jazz SGs. Jerry had too much respect for him to set him on the bench and let the young talent make some mistakes and get some experience.

His bloated salary had to go, but where? A buyout (over Larry’s dead body), a trade (not likely), then the clouds parted, the light intensified and the deep, sonorous voice of Derek came from on high, saying “let my salary go.” It was like Cecil B. Demille and the 10 commandments.

It wasn’t Derek, the person, the Jazz needed to get rid of, it was his salary, his play and his consumption of developmental minutes that needed to go.
Jerry Sloan would trade Brevin Knight for Derek Fisher, and so would every other coach and GM in the league...........

[Knote3]

It is amusing to me how quick people here are to whine and cry about things they don't like, rather than try to improve upon things.

I didn't like NBA 2k's ratings so I got off my *** and did something about it. How many of you could do the same?

Anybody who wants to tear down my work, post your own edits for the public to rip apart. It's easy to criticize something without putting in ample time or research (not to mention meaningless). Think you can do a better job? Prove it.

Got off your ***? I doubt it.....

You actually must sit on your *** alot to do these ratings, but I respect that. I simply disagree with Brevin Knight being a bigger factor in game as opposed to Derek Fisher.
I am a Rox fan so I could really care less, Luck the Fakers..........

[defensiveminded]

I appreciate the comments so far guys, keep em coming.

I'm gonna start working on the centers. Truth be told the PG ratings are always 2k's most accurate, it's the centers who are easily the worst every year.

can't wait to see your center ratings, read 2k's earlier that i think you posted,they were absolutley terrible, they had chandler at like a 84, d jones at a freakin72, and there was only like 4 or 5 that i completley agreed with

[Rashidi]

You actually must sit on your *** alot to do these ratings

As opposed to all the people here playing video games (or talking about playing video games).

From now on, I've going to surf 2k sports standing up.

[Knote3]

As opposed to all the people here playing video games (or talking about playing video games).

From now on, I've going to surf 2k sports standing up.

Stephen is my name. I the most wanted man on my island, except I'm not on my island, of course. More's the pity.

[DARKSPACE]

Rashidi, right out the gate these threads you make are very subjective, which is why you have those that appreciate your work and those that question your methods. What you are doing should be a joy, and not a showcase of he said she said. If someone doesn't agree with you then so what. Wipe the dirt off your shoulder and continue with what you love doing. Instead of baiting others by throwing snirkish, atagonizing, sarcastic replies back to every one that question(s) your so called born to do talent is not going to work anymore.

Either you post in a well civilized manner. as I know you can or simply don't respond to those opinions you don't like to read. continue with your endeavor by ignoring them. Cause what you're doing is enticing others to continue in which will cause an all out back & forth flame war made within your own opinionated thread. Please allow yourself to be the better man when confronted. Belittling everyone that doesn't see eye to eye or challenges your thought process is uncalled fall and totally unacceptable. Thankyou. I hope this WHOLE post is taken heartly.

PS. Don't bother breaking down, my post in quotes. I don't reply back to those. My post meaning is quite clear.

[alsolidus]

Great Job Rashidi I look forwarded to downloading the New roster file this year as well.

Don't listen to some of those comments us SIM Heads that don't like to just dunk and shoot 3's respect your work and how it adds to the realism of the game.

[Rashidi]

LOL I think it's funny that only my ratings topics have been moved to this board.

No special moderator treatment here.

[Mr.Clutch_Knicks12]

Rashidi, you supremely underestimated Ellis!

[Rashidi]

Rashidi, you supremely underestimated Ellis!

The funny thing with Ellis is if you've ever seen him play, he rarely takes players off the dribble, and if he isn't scoring in transition he is almost always coming off a screen. That's not gonna happen if he's running the offense. He is a sub-par decision maker. His points and shooting percentage are going to take a huge hit if he's got the ball in his hands (and his turnovers will only rise). Starting the fastbreak is much different than finishing it.

He is one of my favorite players but he's got some heavy limitations. There's a reason people question whether or not he could play any style other than Nellie-ball. He is basically a better slashing/worse shooting Barbosa. Ben Gordon is a similar shoot first player that would be badly miscast as a PG. Did you guys notice any teams rushing out to get him this summer?

[pooh_wade816]

Yours are better but Billups is fine with 90. Dwill and CP3 should be 1 rate different, I'd say CP3 95 and Dwill 94.

Anyway good job man.

I'm like you too...I was fo'sho that it was gonna be CP3 then D-Will, then the rest just fell into place rather it was Nash, Kidd or Arenas

[XXL]

General consensus is that Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA right now and the best PG. If you lowered him to 96, Wade and Duncan fill out the top 5 and kicks Paul out, which shouldn't be the case.

Other than defensive awareness, I really don't see anything that needs to be lowered.

[tmacfan#1]

The funny thing with Ellis is if you've ever seen him play, he rarely takes players off the dribble, and if he isn't scoring in transition he is almost always coming off a screen. That's not gonna happen if he's running the offense. He is a sub-par decision maker. His points and shooting percentage are going to take a huge hit if he's got the ball in his hands (and his turnovers will only rise). Starting the fastbreak is much different than finishing it.

He is one of my favorite players but he's got some heavy limitations. There's a reason people question whether or not he could play any style other than Nellie-ball. He is basically a better slashing/worse shooting Barbosa. Ben Gordon is a similar shoot first player that would be badly miscast as a PG. Did you guys notice any teams rushing out to get him this summer?

ellis gud but man wat about t-mac yall did him real bold dis year dat aint cool yall need to ante up his ratin

[Rashidi]

General consensus is that Paul is a top 5 player in the NBA right now and the best PG. If you lowered him to 96, Wade and Duncan fill out the top 5 and kicks Paul out, which shouldn't be the case.

Assuming of course, that I didn't lower them too.

But just to play devil's advocate... would there be a problem if either player were in the top 5? I mean, that's what the general consensus was 365 days ago...

[XXL]

Wade wasn't top 5 in people's minds last year, so its hard. Some people are not going to boot Timothy even though he's declining, and some feel Paul isn't there yet.

I think Paul's speed/quickness/ballhandling need boosts, if anything. Def. awarness to 85.

[GoHarder]

how can nash be that high with bad defense?

Bibby should be a 86

You can't be serious its hard for me to swallow CP3 being toted as a better pg than Nash after 1 great season, which I admit that it was one hell of a season, and I know nash is getting old but I still have nash as the best pg in my book

[Smith146]

I will never understand how Nash gets so much praise. His back to back MVP seasons were a joke. Chris Paul last year put up better numbers than Nash has ever in his career. Not to mention Nash is a liability on defense. How can a guy get MVP and still be considered the best PG when the opposing team prepares to run their offense using Nash as the weak point? There's a reason why he'll never make it to the NBA Finals.

[Rashidi]

You can't be serious its hard for me to swallow CP3 being toted as a better pg than Nash after 1 great season, which I admit that it was one hell of a season, and I know nash is getting old but I still have nash as the best pg in my book

Well...

1. Paul's season was even better than any of Nash's previous seasons.
2. It's pretty much established that Paul is a more well-rounded player (i.e. he actually has some value on the defensive end)
3. It's not like Nash has been a great PG his entire career, he has only played at an elite level for 4 years now.

Paul at age 22 came in 2nd in MVP voting.
Nash at age 22 averaged 3 points as a rookie.

Jason Kidd at age 22 was a 2nd year player averaging 16/7/10 but also shot only 38% and lead the league in turnovers, and obviously didn't lead his team to 50+ wins a first round win, and a game 7 vs the defending champs.

Gary Payton at age 22 averaged 7 points and 6 assists as a rookie.

John Stockton at age 22 averaged 5 points and 5 assists as a rookie.

The only PGs who had as much success at such a young age were Magic Johnson and Isiah Thomas.

Paul is VERY good and he's not gonna get worse.

[Bi5oNas]

Ive read your thoughts about Centers (player changes made for Cs this year) and i have to admit that you could be better insider than .... oh wait there isnt any yet - even though he was introduced .