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View Full Version : A thread I started at operationsports. Detailed analysis/criticism of the ratings.


Xboxing2006
October 7th, 2008, 09:56 PM
PG

http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/2237/nba-2k9-point-guard-ratings

Generally speaking the med range ratings are broken with every position. With PG its not as bad. OK its not broken, just clueless. How is Ellis higher than Paul?

The block rating is too low for PGs. These guys are already short so how why is everyone in the 50s. There are PGs that average a block every three games. Is this at all possible in NBA 2k9? Is an Earl Watson block on Shawn Bradley possible? With a running start against someone who is flatfooted anything should be possible.

Rebounding is also too low. Again they are already short and far away from the hoop. Their rebounding stats should be lifted to make up for it. You ever notice guards never get their rebounding stats in NBA 2k games? Three reasons, high FG% that sliders can fix, lack of tipped out rebounds, and ratings.

Speed is slightly overrated for every guard. Ellis, Connelly, deserve the 97+ but guys like Arenas, and Parker don’t.

Close is underrated I know Singletary is a rookie but 70..

Kidd’s defense is almost 20 points above what it should be. He isn’t that fast anymore either.

Andre Miller is too weak and he is not that bad of a shooter

Ellis’s post rating makes no sense. He is a player that likes to face the rim.

Devin Harris is supposed to be an elite defender so why is his on ball D rating so low.

Why is Westbrook so much weaker than Rose?

Arenas is a tad overrated. His layup is too high but then again his Med is a little low.


Why is Derrick Rose so strong? That rating is just out of nowhere. Some smaller guys are very strong but Rose is a rookie… How is Miller in the 61s while Rose is an 82. That’s a space cadet rating right there.


Sessions deserves a better passing rating.

Why does Baron Davis have a 99 in ball handling? Just seems like Stars are overrated for the sake of their overall rating.

Marbury should not have a higher defensive awareness than Duhon or Mardy Collins.



2G aka shooting guards.... http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/2238/nba-2k9-shooting-guard-ratings/
Like the PGs Speed is a tad overrated and strength is underrated
Stars are overrated in areas where they aren’t great.

Close and three are overrated while Med is underrated. Few players are better shooters from the three than from 15-20 feet until they become NBA 2k players.

Steal rating seem to be based more on popularity than stats. This is one rating that should be based more on stats. Willie Green is an example of this. He only has a 66 while he was 20th among NBA guards in steals.

I’m no Laker fan and I still have to laugh at Kobe getting an 87 med. Kobe should have a 93-99 depending on how the ‘shoot in traffic rating’(sit) which should be close to a 99 balances him.

Kobe is a great shooter who can usually get a good look against almost anyone. So you really need some special sliders for the ratings to not make him unbalanced. I could conceivably see Kobe with a 99 in both med and SIT but would the guy ever shoot 45% or have an Angola game? I say give him the right ratings and let the sliders balance him. If you ask me he deserves a 94 med and a 99 sit. If you want to dumb Kobe down it other areas then wack his dunk rating and his layup rating. He is not the most explosive player in the league anymore. A 96 in ball handling is a bit much too.

Flip Murray should not have a 50 in SIT. He has some PG skills. He played a little at Seattle.

If JR Smith and Dwight Howard get love in their dunk ratings based on dunk contest then why not David Lee? David Lee had one of the best dunks I have ever seen. I know I'm not on PFs yet but JR Smith is overrated.

Jamal Crawford should have a better pass rating

Nick Young should be faster.

Vujacic is overrated... slightly

Mayo should be faster. He tears up and down the court like a bat out hell.

SFs aka swingmen aka 3 post
http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/2240/nba-2k9-small-forward-ratings/

These are the best ratings. When in doubt VC uses stereotypes for ratings. SFs are the tweeners and harder to stereotype.

Like the above steals should be based more on stats and blocks are a bit underrated.

Close ratings are overrated. There are too many 90s.

Pass ratings are underrated. Too many guys in the 60s.

There has been a lot said about King James’s med range ratings. 85 is only a tad high to me. The guy just doesn’t get open shots so in this land where everyone has an underrated med ratings 85 does stick out but really I wouldn’t give him under an 82 so I don’t have many gripes. Again why does every athletic star and JR Smith have to have a 99 in dunks? Drop his dunk rating.

James Posey is horribly overrated. He is a good complimentary player and a damn smart defender but he is not an athletic defender

Josh Smith is one guy who deserves a 99 in dunks.

Why does Morrison have such a high close rating? This aint George Gervin. The guy is a sub 40% shooter.

Josh Howard should have better on ball defense

Prince is underrated

Why is Maggette so strong?

Joe Alexander should be much faster. He might have been the fastest player in the draft last year. He should be closer to 99 than 79. He was faster than Rose.
http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Combine-Results/
He was second to Sonny Weems.

PFs aka Ogers becuse thats how VC treats them
http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/2252/nba-2k9-power-forward-ratings/
These are by far the worse ratings. The PF ratings look as if they were created by little kids.

Speed is horribly underrated
Med range ratings are also horribly underrated

Close is overrated (see the patern)

An arbitrary subtraction of five points in close and an addition of five points in med and an addition of five points in speed would make most of the players more realistic.

Take Boozer for instance He has a 98 close 73 med. Brand a 99/79, Aldridge 94/72, Frye 89/75, Okafor 90/61, Gooden 88/72, Ben Wallace 75/55, KG 96/80, ZBO 94/78, McDyess 85/63, Jefferson 98/62, Scola 90/65.

Come onnnnnn lord have mercy. Do they believe that every PF in the league has incredible touch inside? A lot of those guys take the majority of their shots from 10 feet out. Most of those guys deserved better med ratings when they were in college. You dont see this insanity in CH 2k8.

The speed rating is out of touch.
A lot of these guys are as fast as guards but only a few of them have ratings in the 70s and why is Beasley the fastest by so much. I could see Beasley having a layup rating paces the position (man has some nasty finishes) but speed??? Amare, Tyrus Thomas, David Lee, Beasley, and Hendrix should all have speed ratings in the 80s and far more PFs should have ratings in the 70s.

Gasol’s defense is overrated. How can you give a poor defender a good rating in defensive awareness? I guess he is aware of what he does wrong.

Speights Is overrated.

Why is Malik Allen the exception? Why can he shoot. Its my theory that they mistook him for another Malik that played SF.

Why does Turiaf have a higher block rating than Duncan?

Why does Duncan have a 50 in 3p when he makes his share of big 3 pointers in the post season?

http://www.sportsgamer.com/content/2253/nba-2k9-center-ratings/
Centers…
Like PFs their close ratings are too high.
Like PFs they are wayyy too slow.

Oden, Jordan, Milicic, McGee, Bynum, Howard, and Chandler can move. I could see all of them getting speed ratings in the high 70s to med 80s because they can flat out run. How is Noah the fastest center with a freaking 71?

They gave Oden (a guy who can could almost out run Connelly at Ohio State and in highschool for that matter) a 66.

Ratliff is overrated, so is Alonzo…

The layup stat is ridiculous. If they are low so centers wont do fancy layups then what do you determine layups success with? Why is Howard the exception?


How is Robin Lopez rated higher than Brook?



I know the Blazers better than any squad so I added some specifics to their ratings.

Outlaw has asthma so he should have a low stamina rating
Outlaw should have a strong clutch rating. He hit a few buzzer beaters to win the game last season and his best quarter statisticly is the 4th.

Outlaw should be slightly stronger and have better rebounding stats. He spent most of his days as a PF.

Outlaw should have better shot blocking and def awareness stats. Outlaw is a great defender of big shooters. He owns Dirk but he is goofy in the open floor so his low on ball rating is accurate.

Aldridge is in credible shape he is faster than he was at Texas. Him and Webster are neck to neck in drills. He should have a speed rating in the 70s and Webster in the 80s.

Bayless is overrated. A 95 in layups is just too high. His defense is a tad underrated though. His off and def awareness should both be in the med to high 70s. He is not that fast.

Segio Rodriguez only had a 66 or 68 in passing last season now he has an 88. Wise… Ok what matters now is his flashy pass tendency. He likes the slick stuff. All and all he will be warming the bench unless someone gets hurt.

Rudy Fernandez is a good passer and a heady player. A 61 in passing is just silly. He should have at least a 75 in passing.

Webster is consistently the fastest player in drills. He should be as fast as Roy.

Like other stars Roy’s speed is overrated so he and Webster should both have med to high 80s in speed.

Why is Webster’s Med range so much lower than his three? This is true with a lot of players.

Like most of the other PFs Aldridge’s med range is a joke. His med is too low and his close is too high.

Frye’s med range is too low too he is one of the most efficient med range shooters in the league. Ahhh but whats new?

Antaean
October 13th, 2008, 04:00 PM
JR Smith is a clown in this game. Did you check out his tendencies? This guy will try to dunk everything, and if he doesn't get that, he will jack 3s. And his 3pt rating is just weird.

Introcollapse
October 13th, 2008, 05:40 PM
Turiaf is a ridiculous blocker, compared to Duncan, even if Duncan has better stats (Turiaf is a bench player who rarely gets more than 10 minutes a game).

You obviously don't know much about Monta. Monta is one of the most versatile players in the whole league. Watch him play a street game. He'll post the hell out of any 4 or 5.

Point guards block the shots they should block. Calderon is averaging 0.6 blocks in my association. I've played about 20 games in it.

Kidd isn't THAT slow. I agree it's a bit high. 5-10 points at most, though.

Arenas, in general, is overrated. I can't see him being higher than 90 overall.

Rose is quite strong. Doesn't deserve an 81, mind you (that's just a few points shy of Zo).

Davis is one of the best ballhandlers in the league. 99 is fine.

I don't know enough about Marbury to care about him. But I'm going to assume you're right.

Kobe's SIT should sit between 85 and 95. No one should have 99. That pretty much negates defence. His dunk is too high, I agree. Layups are fine.

JR Smith, sadly, is not overrated by any means. He's just that good.

Vujacic's 3pt is a tad high. Otherwise he's fine.

Jamario Moon is underrated. I have a thread about this already.

The close ratings in general are fine to me. Maybe a few points lower, but they're realistic. Even I find it hard to miss a shot when I'm under the rim, no matter how many people are around me, and I'm 6'6".

In terms of SF's and PF's, the speeds seem fine to me, as well as the mids.

Watch Philly's game against the Raptors a few days ago. Speights is not overrated.

Duncan's 3pt should reside in the 60's.

Speeds for centers could be a bit higher, but remember that in general, speed only applies to explosiveness for centers. They aren't very explosive and have no need to run.

Despite the popular opinion, Brook is no where near the player Robin is. You obviously didn't watch the summer league.

I don't watch the Blazers enough to criticize the points you made. You seem to know about their practice sessions. I don't.

Anything I didn't answer to, I either agreed or didn't care.

Rashidi
October 13th, 2008, 10:48 PM
You obviously don't know much about Monta. Monta is one of the most versatile players in the whole league. Watch him play a street game. He'll post the hell out of any 4 or 5.


A street game.

.....................................


Despite the popular opinion, Brook is no where near the player Robin is. You obviously didn't watch the summer league.

Summer League > NCAA? Ooooooookayyyyyyyyyyy

Xboxing2006
October 13th, 2008, 11:16 PM
Turiaf is a ridiculous blocker, compared to Duncan, even if Duncan has better stats (Turiaf is a bench player who rarely gets more than 10 minutes a game).


Turiaf averaged 18 minns Duncan averaged 34. Turiaf averaged a block and a half Duncan 2 and a half. Turiaf averaged 2.5 fouls, Duncan 2.7. Duncan’s ability to stay out of foul trouble (which is important for the Spurs) and still get 2.5 is just as impressive as Turiaf’s block per min advantage. Neither player should have a 8 point advantage over the other. Tendencies is a different matter.


You obviously don't know much about Monta. Monta is one of the most versatile players in the whole league. Watch him play a street game. He'll post the hell out of any 4 or 5.

He was in the post far less often than his former teammate BD. He gets a 72 to Davis’s 58. Whaaa??? If he is developing a post game its because he is learning from BD.


Point guards block the shots they should block. Calderon is averaging 0.6 blocks in my association. I've played about 20 games in it.

You maybe right although I have seen contrary examples. My point is that we should get the ratings right then let the sliders and the level sort out the rest. Deron Williams should not have the same block rating as Zach Randolph.


Kidd isn't THAT slow. I agree it's a bit high. 5-10 points at most, though.

Kidd should not be in the 90s with on-ball. 90s should be reserves for stoppers. Kidd is at best a guy who tries to slow people down.


Davis is one of the best ballhandlers in the league. 99 is fine.

He loses his handle too much. Yeah he doesn’t pay for much. It’s not unusual for Davis to mulligan a third of his moves. Not only that he is always in the post banging smaller guards. You have to save the 99s for guys that don’t fumble or bang as often.


Kobe's SIT should sit between 85 and 95. No one should have 99. That pretty much negates defence. His dunk is too high, I agree. Layups are fine.

Is there a player in the league that can get his shot off in the teeth of the defense better? Kobe negates defense in real life. The problem is that the game doesn’t factor in partially contested shots well enough. True a 99 SIT might be unbalanced but again this is why I say let the sliders handle it. Right now the default sliders are a bigger joke than the ratings.


JR Smith, sadly, is not overrated by any means. He's just that good.

So Kobe gets a 90 in SIT but this guy gets the same dunk ratings as the all-time greats? He barely shoots over 40% one year from three and he gets a 96?? That does not compute.


Vujacic's 3pt is a tad high. Otherwise he's fine.


Jamario Moon is underrated. I have a thread about this already.

No real arguments here.


The close ratings in general are fine to me. Maybe a few points lower, but they're realistic. Even I find it hard to miss a shot when I'm under the rim, no matter how many people are around me, and I'm 6'6".

Close isn’t just being right under the rim its throwing hooks and fallaways from as much as 9 feet out. Those kinda shots fall like wildflower with default sliders.


In terms of SF's and PF's, the speeds seem fine to me, as well as the mids.

SFs are generally close enough with the exception of lesser know players. PFs are too slow. Beasley’s 79 is like 8 points faster than any other PF and what in sams hell is that based on? Beasley is certainly fast for the position but he is not 8 points faster than the entire position. Amare, Tyrus Thomas, Darrell Arthur, even Kevin Love’s fat ***** have real speed for their position. Love can outrun SFs, Thomas and Amare can outrun many guards. There are others like them but Beasley is the only one with an outstanding speed rating. Love was faster than Beasley in the predraft workouts but he gets a 60 and Beasley gets a 79. This is ridiculous. All they did was see a fat white guy and guess. Its not like Love doesn’t have game speed either.

Also if you don’t think mids are off then its hard to take everything else seriously. Aldridge, Scola Amare, Frye, Boozer, and McDyess are all perfect examples. They are a few points from Wilt Chamberlain or Tim Duncan (if you dont want to there) in close but they are below average or barely average from their real life bread and butter range in Mid.


Watch Philly's game against the Raptors a few days ago. Speights is not overrated.

It’s the preseason. Based on collegiate productivity Speights is overrated. If he becomes a good player then its dumb luck on VC’s part and nothing more.




Speeds for centers could be a bit higher, but remember that in general, speed only applies to explosiveness for centers. They aren't very explosive and have no need to run.

Transition. Everyone runs. The old clichés is 'he runs the court well'. That usually means a guy sucks but he is fast enough to not spend a third of the 24 chugging up the court.


Despite the popular opinion, Brook is no where near the player Robin is. You obviously didn't watch the summer league.

Lol okkkkkkk you catch any Stanford games?? Robin is a better scraper which would make him a nice fit for a team like Phoenix. Brook is a much, much better scorer.


Anything I didn't answer to, I either agreed or didn't care.

ditto

kjeebs9
October 14th, 2008, 01:48 PM
I'm sorry but Rose is strong than probably 75% of the PG's in the NBA. I dont think you know what your talking about?

And another thing....I don't think anyone is going to do anything. About it....especial "The Insider". Your better off just changing it to what you want yourself.

Lastly rating players is the hardest job in the world. Forget about making a awesome sim basketball game. Just rating each people is hard. But I think 2k hits it as close as possible.

kjeebs9
October 14th, 2008, 01:52 PM
After reading this for a se****d time......I'm not trying to be rude. I know everyone has there opinions.....But I seriously dont think he knows what hes talking about.....

Introcollapse
October 14th, 2008, 03:46 PM
After reading this for a se****d time......I'm not trying to be rude. I know everyone has there opinions.....But I seriously dont think he knows what hes talking about.....

LOL. Highlight of my day.

Introcollapse
October 14th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Summer League > NCAA? Ooooooookayyyyyyyyyyy

Sorry, this isn't College Hoops.

Xboxing2006
October 14th, 2008, 05:31 PM
I'm sorry but Rose is strong than probably 75% of the PG's in the NBA. I dont think you know what your talking about?

And another thing....I don't think anyone is going to do anything. About it....especial "The Insider". Your better off just changing it to what you want yourself.

Lastly rating players is the hardest job in the world. Forget about making a awesome sim basketball game. Just rating each people is hard. But I think 2k hits it as close as possible.

Why dont you look at the ratings I posted first. Then you will see most of what I'm talking about is in the game. Its not opinion. Look at Rose's rating. Look at Love's speed.