NFLP4 Members Ruling Needed - Please Vote

[FLAxWLESS]

A unique situation has occurred between iamsoonersam and birdman1702 in one of their leagues games played and you will decide what happens. I will not cast a vote. Whatever the poll shows is what will happen (I will count NFLP league member votes and if non-members vote it will be as tiebreaker).

Here is what happened from the evidence I gathered from everyone:

1) Soonersam held a 21-20 lead against birdman with about 2:05 seconds left in the 4th quarter. I am unsure of how many TOs soonersam has, but Birdman has ZERO TIMEOUTS REMAINING.

2) Soonersam gets a 1st down in HOU 4 yard line with 1:51 left on the game clock. At this point he can mathematically kill the clock by kneeing the ball 3 times as birdman has no timeouts left.

3) 1st down - Sooner knees the ball. While he does this Birdman manually(?) brings LBs into LOS and dives at QB when the ball is hiked. 40 seconds run off.

4) Now 2nd down (1:11 left) - Sooner knees the ball. Again Birdman manually(?) brings LB into LOS and dives at QB when the ball is hiked.

5) 3rd down (1:06 left) - About 5 seconds run off before a neutral zone infraction is called against Birdman for manually(?) brings his men into LOS. Soonersam DECLINES penalty and clock fails to restart (it should according to NFL rules, but its APF so who knows). So clock is NOW STOPPED at 1:06 and it is impossible for Soonersam to knee out the clock.

Ball is hiked and not sure if Sooner kneed again or tried to scramble but Jackson had a 2 yard loss. Clock starts running again.

6) 4th and goal. With :29 seconds left on clock up 21-20 at the HOU 9, soonersam decides to GO FOR IT ON 4th DOWN INSTEAD of kicking FG for 24-20 edge. 4th down attempt fails.

7) Birdman gets the ball at his own 9 and with :29 seconds left is able to drive down field and kick a game winning 52 yard field goal as time expires. Final score: 23-21 Houston Wins.

Play by play of game (http://online.2ksports.com/league/game?p=360&l=34190&g=1300804&a=log)

After the game soonersam brought it to my attention that the clock should have continued even after he declined the penalty and would like a RESET the game to play over.

I am just repeat what they have told me through PMs:

What Soonersam said via XBL msg:
- He declined the penalty out of habit/good will. If he accepted the penalty he would have been able to knee the ball and get a 21-20 victory.
- Even though he declined the penalty the clock should still continue to run which would have ended the game.
- He went for it on 4th down instead of kicking a FG that would have given him a 24-20 edge because "he was in shock" as he said via msg.

What Birdman's said via XBL msg:
- The neutral zone infraction was unintentional
- He has no idea why soonersam would decline penalty that would have sealed the game.
- He figured once soonersam went for it on 4th down instead of kicking a FG he could try and win the game.

So what is the correct action to take: Leave the game as is with Birdman as the winner or reset the game for both of them to replay?

Please vote and please keep it civil. There doesn't need to be any flaming. Thanks.

[wEEman33]

Where is the option for "soonersam wins"?

That's what I'd vote.

Trying to disrupt kneel downs is extremely poor sportsmanship.

[FLAxWLESS]

Where is the option for "soonersam wins"?

That's what I'd vote.

Trying to disrupt kneel downs is extremely poor sportsmanship.

Sooner was the one that requested just a reset.

[soonersam]

Just give birman the win, it really doesn't matter anymore.

[Birdman1702]

Where is the option for "soonersam wins"?

That's what I'd vote.

Trying to disrupt kneel downs is extremely poor sportsmanship.

All I did was shift into show blitz (which almost everyone I play does against me in the same situation)...I didn't manually move the man at all prior to the snap. I was really surprised they called a penalty...I've only seen it maybe once before. I did nothing to intentionally stop the clock, so why should I be punished for it? Diving at the snap is irrelevant because it had no affect on the play....I was doing that more out of frustration because I felt I had lost a game that I should've won.

Also, just to clarify, I'm pretty sure the penalty happened on 3rd down...I'm almost positive his choices were replay 3rd down or 4th and goal.

[dtrain053]

Thought this was worth noting.
From NFL.com/rulebook


If the defensive team is behind in the score and commits a foul when it has no time outs left in the final 40 seconds of either half, the offensive team can decline the penalty for the foul and have the time on the clock expire.


BTW my opinion is the same as wEEman. Intentional or not that penalty shouldn't have resulted in the clock stoppage, and there for in my opinion the game is rightfully the Vikings. Not a reset.

[Birdman1702]

Thought this was worth noting.
From NFL.com/rulebook




BTW my opinion is the same as wEEman. Intentional or not that penalty shouldn't have resulted in the clock stoppage, and there for in my opinion the game is rightfully the Vikings. Not a reset.

But we are limited to APF interpretation of the rules. I know in at least two games (1 this season I think) I've been burned by APF's clock rules. In both games, the defense was called for pass interference on the last play of the half. By NFL rules, I should have been able to run another play, but in APF I don't have that option. I ended up losing both games by less than 6 points (one was a 1 point game). Unfortunatly, we are limited to the rules of this video game...both good and bad.

I did not break any league rules, so I don't think I should be punished for it.

EDIT: Also, the foul happened with more than 40 seconds left, so that rule does not apply.

[FLAxWLESS]

Thought this was worth noting.
From NFL.com/rulebook




BTW my opinion is the same as wEEman. Intentional or not that penalty shouldn't have resulted in the clock stoppage, and there for in my opinion the game is rightfully the Vikings. Not a reset.

Again sooner just asked for a reset.

[dtrain053]

To Birdman.

1. You make a valid point, but what if you are assuming the rule is correct when you decline?

2. I'm going by information at hand not the time codes on the play by play, because they aren't always accurate.... If he has a 1st down under 2 minutes, and kneels the next snap will be under 1:20, the snap on third down would then be under :40 seconds. I was making an assumption based off the information at hand. If you have zero T.O.'s and he is kneeling why would he only take off 5 seconds between snaps? That's what I get for assuming.

3. If it was me and that situation occured I would have either taken a knee when I got the ball back, or punted right back. Don't believe me? Ask Flaxwless how our last game ended. Ask Sabor51 about a game in NSL where I actually called a T.O. for him because he burned one on a 2 point coversion because he didn't get my message in time. Ask anyone I play about penalties I've declined on TD's by my opponent.

I play to win, but I wanna earn it. If I don't earn I don't feel good about the win.


To Flaxwless.

I understand, and thats fine. I voted according to your poll. I was however just voicing my opinion on the matter.

[FLAxWLESS]

To Birdman.

1. You make a valid point, but what if you are assuming the rule is correct when you decline?

2. I'm going by information at hand not the time codes on the play by play, because they aren't always accurate.... If he has a 1st down under 2 minutes, and kneels the next snap will be under 1:20, the snap on third down would then be under :40 seconds. I was making an assumption based off the information at hand. If you have zero T.O.'s and he is kneeling why would he only take off 5 seconds between snaps? That's what I get for assuming.

3. If it was me and that situation occured I would have either taken a knee when I got the ball back, or punted right back. Don't believe me? Ask Flaxwless how our last game ended. Ask Sabor51 about a game in NSL where I actually called a T.O. for him because he burned one on a 2 point coversion because he didn't get my message in time. Ask anyone I play about penalties I've declined on TD's by my opponent.

I play to win, but I wanna earn it. If I don't earn I don't feel good about the win.


To Flaxwless.

I understand, and thats fine. I voted according to your poll. I was however just voicing my opinion on the matter.

Everyone is welcome to voice their opinion and I listen and take account all opinions.

[Birdman1702]

I play to win, but I wanna earn it. If I don't earn I don't feel good about the win.




It's fairly obvious this poll is not gonna go in my favor, and I can understand what you guys are saying. But I did nothing wrong....it's not like the game was gift wrapped for me after that penalty. I still had to move the ball 60 yds in 30 seconds with no timeouts and kick a 52 yd FG (is that not earning it?). If he would have kicked a FG, I would've had to score a TD...instead he gave the ball to his gold Adrian Peterson and if he would've scored a TD on the play, I would've had to score and convert a 2 pt conversion.

I won according to the rules of the game that we play....I did not cheat or break any rules.

[FLAxWLESS]

It's fairly obvious this poll is not gonna go in my favor, and I can understand what you guys are saying. But I did nothing wrong....it's not like the game was gift wrapped for me after that penalty. I still had to move the ball 60 yds in 30 seconds with no timeouts and kick a 52 yd FG (is that not earning it?). If he would have kicked a FG, I would've had to score a TD...instead he gave the ball to his gold Adrian Peterson and if he would've scored a TD on the play, I would've had to score and convert a 2 pt conversion.

I won according to the rules of the game that we play....I did not cheat or break any rules.

I don't think anyone is calling you a cheater or accusing you of cheating.

We're just trying to determine who earned the victory.

[Valdarez]

I didn't vote in the poll, but it seems that if this is truly a bug (which it sounds like it is per the rule explanation), then soonersam should not be penalized for an in game bug, especially a bug that it is absolutely 100% obvious that it shifted the outcome of the game from it's original outcome which would have been kneeling the ball down allowing time to expire for a win.

[Birdman1702]

If I understand correctly, the clock is supposed to stop on a defensive penalty. According to what dtrain posted, the clock will run if it the offense declines and there are fewer than 40 seconds left..there was a minute left in our game.

If all that is correct, then it wasn't an in game bug. It was a bad coaching decision...no matter what the intentions were.

[soonersam]

Even though I am no longer in the league and bridman can keep his hard earn win I would like to point out that their was under 40 seconds left in the game.
http://online.2ksports.com/league/game?p=360&l=34190&g=1300804&a=log

[FLAxWLESS]

Even though I am no longer in the league and bridman can keep his hard earn win I would like to point out that their was under 40 seconds left in the game.
http://online.2ksports.com/league/game?p=360&l=34190&g=1300804&a=log

Care to respond to my PMs?

Why exactly are you leaving?

[Birdman1702]

Wait, you seriously left the league over this. The poll is going to end in your favor, so the game will be reset. What's the problem? Did you expect me not to argue my side of the story? Isn't that my responsibility?

Also, FWIW, I don't see anywhere in that link you posted where it says the penalty was called with less than 40 seconds left.

[FLAxWLESS]

Wait, you seriously left the league over this. The poll is going to end in your favor, so the game will be reset. What's the problem? Did you expect me not to argue my side of the story? Isn't that my responsibility?

Also, FWIW, I don't see anywhere in that link you posted where it says the penalty was called with less than 40 seconds left.

The bottom line is the game should have been over had the offside penalty had not occurred, because the offside penalty occurred BEFORE :40 seconds he was unable to wind the clock down as expected. He had 1st down with 1:51 if the opponent has 0 timeouts they can run the clock out at 1:59.

[dtrain053]

Wait, you seriously left the league over this. The poll is going to end in your favor, so the game will be reset. What's the problem? Did you expect me not to argue my side of the story? Isn't that my responsibility?

Also, FWIW, I don't see anywhere in that link you posted where it says the penalty was called with less than 40 seconds left.

I'm pretty sure you aren't the reason he quit Birdman.

As far as the clock goes I think the time code shows that he snapped the ball on 4th down with :29 seconds left. That means the clock was stopped on 3rd down with :29 seconds left or under 40 seconds.....

[Birdman1702]

Not necessarily, if the penalty happened on 2nd down then the clock would've been stopped between 2nd and 3rd and then run after the 3rd down play and stopped as soon as the 4th down play was dead...which the play by play seems to say.

I honestly don't remember for sure on what down the penalty occured because I didn't see the anything from FLAxWLESS until a day or two after the game. I expected to get a message or something from sooner right after the game because of how it happened, but he didn't say anything to me so I just forgot about it.

[FLAxWLESS]

Not necessarily, if the penalty happened on 2nd down then the clock would've been stopped between 2nd and 3rd and then run after the 3rd down play and stopped as soon as the 4th down play was dead...which the play by play seems to say.

I honestly don't remember for sure on what down the penalty occured because I didn't see the anything from FLAxWLESS until a day or two after the game. I expected to get a message or something from sooner right after the game because of how it happened, but he didn't say anything to me so I just forgot about it.

The penalty occured after he kneeled the ball on 2nd down.

1:51
1st down - kneel ball
40secons
1:11
2nd down - kneel ball
Then the penalty occurred at 1:05 when only 6 seconds ran off the clock.
Had the penalty not occurred or had soonersam ACCEPTED the penalty he would have bean able to kneel the ball on 3rd down with < :40 left ending the game.

[Birdman1702]

If the penalty occurred with more than 40 seconds left then it is his responsibility to accept it. He didn't....then he chose to run another play on 4th down (as opposed to the gimme FG), leaving himself vulnerable to exactly what happened.

[ballin5692]

Ya but in the NFL when you decline a penalty the clock continues to click. It doesnt do that in this game. Also when the other team has a penalty with no timeouts there is a 10 second run off.

[turtl83]

If the penalty occurred with more than 40 seconds left then it is his responsibility to accept it. He didn't....then he chose to run another play on 4th down (as opposed to the gimme FG), leaving himself vulnerable to exactly what happened.
while that is true, the main point is that the penalty shouldn't have happened.it's not like it was an in action penalty otherwise I would say that you should keep the win.

[Birdman1702]

The 10 second runoff is only on offensive penalties when the clock is running under two minutes.

The clock stops under two minutes on defensive penalties "unless the defensive team is behind in the score and commits a foul when it has no time outs left in the final 40 seconds of either half, the offensive team can decline the penalty for the foul and have the time on the clock expire."

[ballin5692]

Exaly and he declined the penalty therefore the clock should of never stoped. So I think he should get the win because the clock should of never stoped ticking.

[Birdman1702]

ballin, did you even read the post? The clock did exactly what it is supposed to do under NFL rules....sooner should have accepted the penalty.

With the exception of the last two minutes of the first half and the last five minutes of the second half, the game clock will be restarted following a kickoff return, a player going out of bounds on a play from scrimmage, or after declined penalties.


And turtl, why does the type of penalty matter in this case?

Bottom line, the clock was correct according to the rules, but sooner made a mistake by not accepting the penalty. Now the game is gonna be reset....we should all be so lucky as to have a 2nd chance to correct our mistakes.

[ballin5692]

Im pretty sure the rule is when there is a penalty and its declined the clock starts up again as soon as the ball is set. So that game should of ended no matter what. If he accepted or declined that clock would of started again as soon as the ball is set.

Also you should of never jumped offsides to begin with. The game was over and in a real life situation as soon as that ball is set the clock continues to run. I have seen it happen plenty of times when a team declined a penalty and as soon as the ball was set the ref did his little single showing the clocking is running. With under 2 minutes.

The only time the clock stops is if the offense has a penalty. If the defense causes a penealty with under 2 minutes left and no timeouts the clock will run if the penalty is declined or accepted.

[ballin5692]

A team cannot buy an excess time out for a penalty. However, a fourth time out is allowed without penalty for an injured player, who must be removed immediately. A fifth time out or more is allowed for an injury and a five-yard penalty is assessed if the clock was running. Additionally, if the clock was running and the score is tied or the team in possession is losing, the ball cannot be put in play for at least 10 seconds on the fourth or more time out. The half or game can end while those 10 seconds are run off on the clock.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/timingfinal

[dtrain053]

If you play soonersam enough you know he declines most penalties. He thinks they occur too often in the game. Like the illegal man down field penalty that is almost inevatable. Out of shear habit, and generally speaking good sportmanship he declined the penalty.

You admit to diving at the feet of the QB "out of frustration", and yes he made the mistake of declining a penalty. Justify it how ever you want. You got a cheap win, good job.

You wanna know what I really think? I really think you were diving at his QB with the intent to get a penalty, hoping that soonersam would do just what he did, decline the penalty, so you could have some miracle shot at the victory.

Again if I was in your shoes I would have either knelt down or punted back......

If you don't believe me let me give you an example:

Playing FLAxWLESS for the second time of the season, in a game that if I win I basically lock up the division. Losing means I have lost twice to him, and need help from his remaining opponents to win the division.

It's third and 10 with under 1 minute left, I have the ball with 2 T.O.'s, down by 7.

I call a shotgun play, and move my slot WR left to right. I snap as Flax is making a adjustment causing his LB to dive. As he dives he drills my WR, and after the incomplete pass to a different WR there is a penalty for interference. It's on his LB, who if it wasn't for the stupid dive they do during hot routing wouldn't have touched the WR who wasn't involved in the play.

So my options are 1st Down, and new life or 4th down under 1 minute. I declined the penalty.

What you did shows the lengths some people in this league will go to to win games, and its why two players with integrity have quit the league. You (and anyone else that fits this mould) play to win and that's fine, I have no issue with that, you paid for your game, you play for your reasons. I play for the experience and hope that I win in the process. I'll play for mine.

[FLAxWLESS]

If you play soonersam enough you know he declines most penalties. He thinks they occur too often in the game. Like the illegal man down field penalty that is almost inevatable. Out of shear habit, and generally speaking good sportmanship he declined the penalty.

You admit to diving at the feet of the QB "out of frustration", and yes he made the mistake of declining a penalty. Justify it how ever you want. You got a cheap win, good job.

You wanna know what I really think? I really think you were diving at his QB with the intent to get a penalty, hoping that soonersam would do just what he did, decline the penalty, so you could have some miracle shot at the victory.

Again if I was in your shoes I would have either knelt down or punted back......

If you don't believe me let me give you an example:

Playing FLAxWLESS for the second time of the season, in a game that if I win I basically lock up the division. Losing means I have lost twice to him, and need help from his remaining opponents to win the division.

It's third and 10 with under 1 minute left, I have the ball with 2 T.O.'s, down by 7.

I call a shotgun play, and move my slot WR left to right. I snap as Flax is making a adjustment causing his LB to dive. As he dives he drills my WR, and after the incomplete pass to a different WR there is a penalty for interference. It's on his LB, who if it wasn't for the stupid dive they do during hot routing wouldn't have touched the WR who wasn't involved in the play.

So my options are 1st Down, and new life or 4th down under 1 minute. I declined the penalty.

What you did shows the lengths some people in this league will go to to win games, and its why two players with integrity have quit the league. You (and anyone else that fits this mould) play to win and that's fine, I have no issue with that, you paid for your game, you play for your reasons. I play for the experience and hope that I win in the process. I'll play for mine.

My biggest gripe is these two players have left the game without so much HELPING me in curbing these problems. I can't play everyone and most likely when people play me they play differently.

How can I fix any issues you guys have if instead of PMing and letting me know what's up I get blinded sided by them quitting on me?

I firmly believe the lg is only as good as its players and losing Tell and soonersam are big blows to the league. However, they both know how hard I have tried to patch things up and ask for their input to get them back in the fold.

[brownster1412]

Had the penalty not occurred or had soonersam ACCEPTED the penalty he would have bean able to kneel the ball on 3rd down with < :40 left ending the game.

WOW!!!!

soonersam was kneeling the ball to not run up the score and to run the clock out and he gets repayed by losing the game......

Why is there not a third option to give soonersam the win??? Sam had the game won if it wasn't for the the penalty. Even with declining a penalty, (in real life) the clock should have started back up on the refs whistle.

To me, this has nothing to do w/ you FLAx, it falls on the shoulders of Birdman.

So sam trying to run out the clock and he got glitched by the game, he gets a loss ???

Doesn't seem right to me BUT If sam quit the league, i guess it really doesn't matter.

[FLAxWLESS]

WOW!!!!

soonersam was kneeling the ball to not run up the score and to run the clock out and he gets repayed by losing the game......

Why is there not a third option to give soonersam the win??? Sam had the game won if it wasn't for the the penalty. Even with declining a penalty, (in real life) the clock should have started back up on the refs whistle.

To me, this has nothing to do w/ you FLAx, it falls on the shoulders of Birdman.

So sam trying to run out the clock and he got glitched by the game, he gets a loss ???

Doesn't seem right to me BUT If sam quit the league, i guess it really doesn't matter.

Again there is no 3rd option to give Sam the win b/c Sam asked for a reset. That's what he asked from me so that's what I put down.

Again I wish he wouldn't quit the league.

[wEEman33]

At the end of the day, it's just one game in the course of many.

I'm surprised that people let little things like this bother them to the point of leaving a league.

[Birdman1702]

dtrain, I know I got a lucky break.....it happens every day in this game. I don't really care what you would've done in this situation....it doesn't matter. And you accusing me of being in the "win at all costs" crowd is laughable at best....I'm pretty sure just about everyone in this league would vouch for me.

All I did was argue my position. Why does that all of a sudden make me the bad guy? When I'm confronted, I argue my position....my parents used to tell me I could argue with a brick wall. It's not my fault sooner left the league. He did that on his own....Tell has his reasons too.

[dtrain053]

dtrain, I know I got a lucky break.....it happens every day in this game. I don't really care what you would've done in this situation....it doesn't matter. And you accusing me of being in the "win at all costs" crowd is laughable at best....I'm pretty sure just about everyone in this league would vouch for me.

All I did was argue my position. Why does that all of a sudden make me the bad guy? When I'm confronted, I argue my position....my parents used to tell me I could argue with a brick wall. It's not my fault sooner left the league. He did that on his own....Tell has his reasons too.

1. I said you play to win, I play to enjoy the experience.

2. I never said you are why sam quit. In fact I stated earlier you were not the reason in my opinion.

3. Argue your position, and I will do the same. What you did is an example IMO of what people will do to put a W on there resume. I did not accuse you of being a "win at all costs" guy, nore did I say you were a bad guy. I simply disagree with your view of this situation. I am entitled that just as much as you are entitled to argue your point, which is moot since Sam is no longer in the league.

[TemptTastic]

All I know is I played against Sonnersam in his last game of this league and he used every cheat possible. Onside kicks, going for it on 4th and long, trying to block my PATs, using 1 play on offense, using the hurry up all in the 1st and 2nd qtr.

He wouldnt tell me why he was doing it so i quit in the 3rd. Ive played soonersam twice before and i never had a problem with him. Right after our game (if u wanna call it a game) is when he quit.

I sent Flawless 2 messages about the game but have yet to receive an answer. I feel i should win, because he was breaking every rule in the book.

[Tell22]

All I know is I played against Sonnersam in his last game of this league and he used every cheat possible. Onside kicks, going for it on 4th and long, trying to block my PATs, using 1 play on offense, using the hurry up all in the 1st and 2nd qtr.

He wouldnt tell me why he was doing it so i quit in the 3rd. Ive played soonersam twice before and i never had a problem with him. Right after our game (if u wanna call it a game) is when he quit.

I sent Flawless 2 messages about the game but have yet to receive an answer. I feel i should win, because he was breaking every rule in the book.


I believe that he was tired of you breaking rules by calling Double Bump Man pretty often...direct violation of pretty much every sim league on these forums and strategy...which means you are basically a cheap player...I guess that is what happends when FLAxWLESS picks up players off the street

[TemptTastic]

I never play bump coverage. My CBs dont hav the skills to do it. I didnt play bump coverage once i promise. I got the ball first and scored and he started cheating rite after that, so it wasnt because of defense. I asked him y he was cheating and he wouldnt give me an answer, the only thing he would do is insult me.

If I was doing anything wrong and if he would hav told me i would have stopped. The fact of the matter is i did nothing wrong, and he cheated every play thereffore i deserve the win i think.

How can u defend him? u didnt see the game. Ive played 7 other people in this league and none of them sed i broke the rules.

Flawless, i would love some feedback from u

[dtrain053]

1. Tell relax its a video game. Your over reacting a bit man. You white washed hoser because he was playing cheesey I get that. Flax can't do anything about it until he is aware of an issue. Even then it isn't fair to start booting people of 1 complaint. It could be 1 bad game 1 time.

I've had issues with Hoser, but they have been minor and the quick snapping usually stops with a quick message. As far as him no huddling the one early blows, but at 20-0 thats 3 scores. Yeah it technically isn't 21-0 but damn man thats pulling hairs.

Flaxwless point was why quit after doing what you did to him? Why not voice a complaint to him? Give Flaxwless a chance to make changes...


Temptastic...

I find it hard to believe sam was calling the same play over and over, or that he was cheating or the like.

I looked at the play by play, and heres what I saw. He went for it on 4th down inside your 40 which is OK in most leagues, not this one, but its easy to confuse.

I do not see evidence of an blocked FGs but see you quit after he picked you off and was driving for the lead. He did onside kick down 28-14 in the second, so you have a right to complain there. Still anything he did do was probably out of frustration from your play (Quick Snapping, Double Bump Man, same several plays all game)

Were you or were you not warned earlier this season by FLAxWLESS after soonersam lobbied complaints (for the things listed above) after your first game?

[TemptTastic]

I was told not to quick snap and since my 1st game i have not.

Truth b told im not even sure wat double bump man is. If it means moving ur CBs up to do bump coverage then i definitely dont do that. And i run a variety of plays, i usually just ask the coach.

Ive played sam before without any problems, but he did do all of those things. I did quit after an interception, but only because he was still cheating and wouldnt giv me an answer y.

Like ive sed before if im doing anything wrong all u hav to do is tell me. But i didnt this game and he did the whole time, so i think i should get the win

[TemptTastic]

Also dtrain, He went for it on 4th and 12 in the first half thats not sim i dont care wat u say.

I sed he tried to block a field goal not that he suceeded.

And he kicked 3 onside kicks at least

[dtrain053]

4th down between the 30 and 40 (40 yards from scoring) is no mans land. All of Hitmans leagues allow you to go, and you will see NFL coaches go for it from time to time as well. If the kicker has a weak league or they feel they have play that will work it happens.

As far as the onsides go, I already said that was something you had an honest beef about. I don''t condone that at regardless of how many.

[TemptTastic]

Listen im not tryin to make anybody mad or anything. I really like this league and dont hav many complaints. Just in this one instance i feel i deserve a win. I understand that u guys know soonersam alot better than u do me, but i am tellin the truth about this.

I would jus like my win and then to be done with this

[nflhitman]

I would say the writing is on the wall here by the confirmation of the play by play. It shows many rules being broke by soonersam and therefor the game should either be reset or Temptastic should get the win. I like soonersam as well but everyone has there bad day or days and this was one for soonersam. This doesn't excuse him from the evidence either..

Teptastic the reason why a NFL Coach would go for it if in between the 30 & 40 yard line is because in most cases a punt would be a touchback so you basically kicked it 15 yards and it is too far for most Kicker to to kick it so no matter the down or distance they would go for it.

[dtrain053]

Listen im not tryin to make anybody mad or anything. I really like this league and dont hav many complaints. Just in this one instance i feel i deserve a win. I understand that u guys know soonersam alot better than u do me, but i am tellin the truth about this.

I would jus like my win and then to be done with this

You also quit which is against the rules as well. It's not like you quit after he onside kicked the 1st, 2nd, or even 3rd time. You quit after he picked you off and was moving for a score that would give him the lead. So would you have quit had you been ahead or still moving the ball? I don't think you would have..

I would say a reset is in order, not a win.

[ballin5692]

How will you reset a game when the person is no longer in the league?

[TemptTastic]

I did quit after he picked me off. Truth is i thought about quitting in the 1st qtr. I was waitin for a reply from him as to y he was cheating that never came so i quit. I dont think it should b wrong to quit when someone cheats the whole game. If we reset, since he left the league, Do i get the win, or is it a coin flip or something?

Like i said before i really enjoy being in this league, so i will do watever u guys tell me i need to do.