What is Sim

[ICETHORZEUS]

After playing since the start , what is sim and why is this so important to so many gamers.

[twosilk]

After playing since the start , what is sim and why is this so important to so many gamers.


sim= fun no one wants to spend a hour of their life playing" stop the hot route fade", or " beat the back into the flats" I mean, the word sim is misused, but I think what most gamers look for is a resemblence of real football, and not having to stop 3 plays all game.

[Kdrontle]

Trying to mimic the game you see on TV every weekend is a broad definition of "sim". Basically, anything you do that tarnishes the integrity of the game will generally get bashed as un-sim... which much of it is. In my opinion there is a gray area with many disputed things still.

[Numbski]

Kdrontle hit the nail on the head. I'll go a step further and say that intent has a whole lot to do with it too. Generally speaking, you want to do what works until the other guy stops it. There are a few things in this game that you can play the odds on and come up big with very little to no risk at all. If you come out running with a gold halfback and run screens and swing passes all game, I'm going to run your back down with a linebacker every play - but since the odds are that your gold back with eventually auto-break tackles for a huge gain, it becomes highly abusable, and since there's no skill involved (I knew you were going to do it, maybe even beat you there) - it degrades the experience.

Same goes for the fade route to Jerry Rice. It may not be an exploit, but even under the best of circumstances, you can't really think that Rice is going to beat his corner/safety at the line of scrimmage and get a 5 yard lead on him every single time. It's either a bug or poorly implemented coverage. It reduces you to running zone coverage every down because the instant you run man coverage, here comes that fade route, and your DB will do nothing to stop it. I could back him up, but then I back the coverage of ALL of my DB's up. If I could back off just the one covering Rice, I'm okay with it.

I could keep going, but you've heard all of this before, Zeus. We're still playing this game because we enjoy football, not because we enjoy abusing parts of the game to make others miserable.

Well, at least that's the case for most of us anyway. If your intent is to be the highest ranked lobby player, no matter how you accomplish it, don't expect to be well received. If your intent is to play honest and improve yourself by matching wits against others of equal or higher skill and intellect, then you're going to have to prove yourself, because to be blunt: you've not endeared yourself to a single player on these forums. I've put out an olive branch to you more than once. You'll note I'm not universally liked, but I'm also rarely accused of cheating. It all depends on what's more important to you - winning, or your integrity.

[Higgus]

After playing since the start , what is sim and why is this so important to so many gamers.
Sim is still trying to win the game, but not abusing the AI flaws in the game. Try and win the game in a way the opponent respects the win. Otherwise, there's no point to winning.

You are trying to win the respect of your opponent, not the game. When you dominate the game using your skill instead of abusing AI flaws, then you will still win the game anyway.

[DonVCorleone]

Kdrontle hit the nail on the head. I'll go a step further and say that intent has a whole lot to do with it too. Generally speaking, you want to do what works until the other guy stops it. There are a few things in this game that you can play the odds on and come up big with very little to no risk at all. If you come out running with a gold halfback and run screens and swing passes all game, I'm going to run your back down with a linebacker every play - but since the odds are that your gold back with eventually auto-break tackles for a huge gain, it becomes highly abusable, and since there's no skill involved (I knew you were going to do it, maybe even beat you there) - it degrades the experience.

Same goes for the fade route to Jerry Rice. It may not be an exploit, but even under the best of circumstances, you can't really think that Rice is going to beat his corner/safety at the line of scrimmage and get a 5 yard lead on him every single time. It's either a bug or poorly implemented coverage. It reduces you to running zone coverage every down because the instant you run man coverage, here comes that fade route, and your DB will do nothing to stop it. I could back him up, but then I back the coverage of ALL of my DB's up. If I could back off just the one covering Rice, I'm okay with it.

I could keep going, but you've heard all of this before, Zeus. We're still playing this game because we enjoy football, not because we enjoy abusing parts of the game to make others miserable.

Well, at least that's the case for most of us anyway. If your intent is to be the highest ranked lobby player, no matter how you accomplish it, don't expect to be well received. If your intent is to play honest and improve yourself by matching wits against others of equal or higher skill and intellect, then you're going to have to prove yourself, because to be blunt: you've not endeared yourself to a single player on these forums. I've put out an olive branch to you more than once. You'll note I'm not universally liked, but I'm also rarely accused of cheating. It all depends on what's more important to you - winning, or your integrity.

good post
if its an ai flaw and you know it is.....dont abuse it.

[ICETHORZEUS]

With all due respect what is the difference in an AI flaw and the inability of the gamer to adjust his strategy and find solutions.

[Kdrontle]

With all due respect what is the difference in an AI flaw and the inability of the gamer to adjust his strategy and find solutions.

That's where the debate starts. Whatever people find un-counterable through reasonable means, also game breaking techniques that dumb the game down to a 2 play scheme.

Kicking to corners on kickoffs to get weird bounces= not sim

Manually Blocking FG's through formations that allow it to occur half the time = not sim

Borderline: Snapping the ball so quick your opponent can't even select a player. Quick Corner routes because the AI doesn't cover them, it's retarded. Cadence.

Nearly everyone that plays all pro football accepts these as not sim. Games are far more enjoyable when you keep it a chess match and not dumb it down to a silly "one or the other" game.

[zhaoyun707]

I can't find the word sim in the madden dictionary. :confused:

[Superbuffundo]

I can't find the word sim in the madden dictionary. :confused:

Its under Churducken for simulated heart attack.

[Gunther]

Fade works best against zone :)
Oh and the Rice fade can be stopped by one DB he just cant be pressed up on the line. These are things most people know by now.

[Numbski]

That's not been my experience. :P Then again, I run with 4 safeties. By and large, I can force double zone coverage over the top on Rice, with 2 high level safeties waiting downfield for the pass. He can burn my generic corner all day.

We're straying off topic here a touch though.

[Bowdown123]

Its a EA game, where you form a community and deal with real life issues

[DonVCorleone]

sim = me

theres me at the top if the sim mountain......then everyone else

[ICETHORZEUS]

The fade route can be slowed down by using man defense, this is called adjusting your strategy during a game. This is why NFL coaches are fired. Why would anyone use 4 safeties, they are too slow to cover WR;s.

[Gunther]

sim = me

theres me at the top if the sim mountain......then everyone else
Sim = fantasy

If you mean simulating real football by your own standards running single back 4 wide and throwing to your HB 12 of the 24 pass attempts would not be sim.

[DonVCorleone]

Sim = fantasy

If you mean simulating real football by your own standards running single back 4 wide and throwing to your HB 12 of the 24 pass attempts would not be sim.


vs a 1 play defense where everyone was doing the same thing every play for your defense......i found the hole


I AM THE SIM GOD!!!

[Gunther]

you found the loss and the quit option as well. :)

[DonVCorleone]

you found the loss and the quit option as well. :)


you always turn this into a me vs you battle..

get over it....IM THE SIM GOD

my sim ways & 100% sim gameplay has paved the way for others to see the TRUE sim light

check my sig

[gumbo31]

I use Rice and I'll run that fade whenever I don't see a Safety over the top, but I'll also do the same with Rob Moore. It can be stopped, but pick your poison. I only have a 4 Legend offense and I've had skilled players hold me to 4 FGs, but I've also put up 40pts vs stacked defenses. I had a kid last night that shut that fade down with Lester Hayes and a generic safety. Every play in this game can be stopped,but not one defense stops everything. Pick your poison and understand where your defense is vulnerable.

Un Sim to me is taking advantage of a flaw in programming.

[twosilk]

the fade is FAR cheaper than the go route. I like how people say that they go to the FADE when there is no safety over top, but have never heard anyone say, I call a GO route with no safety over top, clearly states that you know the route is weak, and you have no problem exploiting the game

[ICETHORZEUS]

Football is a game of exploitation. coaches are paid to find weaknesses and exploit them. That is basic football. the objective of online football is to adjust to your opponent.

[twosilk]

Football is a game of exploitation. coaches are paid to find weaknesses and exploit them. That is basic football. the objective of online football is to adjust to your opponent.


fades routes do not beat the coach, they beat the a.i. big difference there!!! if you call one every now and then, I don't think that no one would have a problem with that, but as a staple of your offense??? I think that shows you have no real offensive gameplan. For as much as I heard about the leeroy fade route, the times that I have played him he did try the route, once he saw that it was not there, he adapted and played a very solid game of football. which is why he is a very solid player to me, not a one trick pony like some.

[hibachiii]

the fade is FAR cheaper than the go route. I like how people say that they go to the FADE when there is no safety over top, but have never heard anyone say, I call a GO route with no safety over top, clearly states that you know the route is weak, and you have no problem exploiting the game
This......

[Numbski]

...is correct? :P

I'd like to play someone with Rice once and have them agree not to use the fade route. Insert a go route wherever they might have normally used a fade and see what happens. I'm really curious to see if it's that much different (since no one every runs a go - well, I do, but from the slot with generic wr's).

[DEEBOE404]

well said bro. I will also like to bring up, Sim is not going for it on every 4th down (punters, place Kickers NEEDED!) and Players playing out of thier postions. (WR as TE, CB as WR, RB as WR), The only expection is Woodson playing FS. Barney and Lewis play S, and SS IMO are exploits, play them in their proper postions. Butler is not a MLB, and Ditka is not one for sure. What makes me mad the most is the constant hurry offense with cunningham and rice, hurry offense every play of the game is cheese IMO.
I know there are some players that played differnt postions that are featured in this game (mitchell, taylor, and Lott, and others I didnt list. The question is, Is it lame and cheesy to put a WR in the backfield that was labled on the game as a WR?

I could keep going, but you've heard all of this before, Zeus. We're still playing this game because we enjoy football, not because we enjoy abusing parts of the game to make others miserable.

Well, at least that's the case for most of us anyway. If your intent is to be the highest ranked lobby player, no matter how you accomplish it, don't expect to be well received. If your intent is to play honest and improve yourself by matching wits against others of equal or higher skill and intellect, then you're going to have to prove yourself, because to be blunt: you've not endeared yourself to a single player on these forums. I've put out an olive branch to you more than once. You'll note I'm not universally liked, but I'm also rarely accused of cheating. It all depends on what's more important to you - winning, or your integrity.

[Gunther]

Thor, post some pictures of your game room with 4 55 inch LCD's. I wanna see how cool you are.

[Higgus]

Football is a game of exploitation. coaches are paid to find weaknesses and exploit them. That is basic football. the objective of online football is to adjust to your opponent.
The point of sim is to exploit the opponent, not exploit the AI which the opponent has no control over.

[GoT aNsWeRs]

Playing Fair, if you have to say is this cheese before you do it, it probably is, streaks from the slot IMO are borderline when don excessively, as far as a fad vs a streak, if the DB's in out side coverage I would throw a streak, but I'm not calling a streak when the DB's lined straight up on the WR so I can get bumped. That makes no sense in my eyes.

[twosilk]

Playing Fair, if you have to say is this cheese before you do it, it probably is, streaks from the slot IMO are borderline when don excessively, as far as a fad vs a streak, if the DB's in out side coverage I would throw a streak, but I'm not calling a streak when the DB's lined straight up on the WR so I can get bumped. That makes no sense in my eyes.

some comments are better left unsaid............................................ ..........................

[DonVCorleone]

Thor, post some pictures of your game room with 4 55 inch LCD's. I wanna see how cool you are.


LOL. id like to see this too.

zeus has been cheese eince madden 06. dont bother with that tool.

POST THE PICS ZEUS

[Numbski]

fades routes do not beat the coach, they beat the a.i. big difference there!!! if you call one every now and then, I don't think that no one would have a problem with that, but as a staple of your offense??? I think that shows you have no real offensive gameplan. For as much as I heard about the leeroy fade route, the times that I have played him he did try the route, once he saw that it was not there, he adapted and played a very solid game of football. which is why he is a very solid player to me, not a one trick pony like some.

I've actually seen the go route have a slightly similar effect to the fade. Unless you've got your db lined up right on top of the WR, he'll blow right by, the DB doesn't move (this vs a Gold CAP WR, mind you). Then the safety over the top just ignores him as well, even though the safety had deep outside coverage. I'm not about to go so far as to say both should be avoided - a football game with no deep ball would be worse over all I think. I have to admit that I get frustrated with people that have peared down their play books to only plays that have a fade route, or can be audibled to a fade route, so on every snap, the fade is a threat, reducing you to doing whatever it is you do (or try to do) to stop it. Every down. To me it dumbs down the game. I can't run (insert defense here), because then they'll run the fade route. Gotta stay back in that deep 4 or deep 8 all game. If they see anything other than that, fade route. Unless you're Zeus, in which case, bombs away regardless because that CAP WR is taller, faster, and has better hands than any DB in the game.

There has to be a balance here, and it seems that the only balance would be to tweak the DB's to at least pretend to react to the route. I don't think as many of us would be bent out of shape if the DB went with the receiver (as they should) and still got beat on the route. When I see a DB beat by 5-10 yards right off the snap...it's just not right, and not even Rice was THAT effective.

[Daking0fphilly]

sim is some bulshi t a bum made up. Its not in the dictionary so its fake.

[Superbuffundo]

sim is some bulshi t a bum made up. Its not in the dictionary so its fake.

"simulation"

[nflhitman]

Whats funny is if you have a strong WR with Strength Bonus you can call the Go Route and he will throw your CB to the side and go deep on you just the same.

[nflhitman]

I am curious ZEUS if you created this thread to get someone besides your other account to play? You are ranked #1 with almost 100 wins already yet you have about 10 hours of total game play online LMFAO!!

[ICETHORZEUS]

Most quit losing 28-0 in first quarter.

[DAMIEN 138]

Sim is a myth. It's a video game. Plays are meant to be abused. People need to network and find other gamers that play "sim" ball. Instead of crying foul after they get their asses handed to them by some random opponent.

I play Madden, APF 2k8, ESPN NFL 2k5, and other sports titles. I personally like to play the game like it's played in real life. But I have to network to find the people that play the same way as I do. If I do a quick match or pick someone out of a lobby to play and they run the same plays over and over again and I lose, thats my fault. But I have the ability to adjust my game plan to stop those 3 plays.

[Numbski]

Most quit losing 28-0 in first quarter.

No Zeus, they quit because you pull out every glitch in the book. I played you last night, let's see if I can put a laundry list out there.

1. Move defensive linemen pre-snap to get an un-natural pass rush.
2. Manually glitch-blocking field goals, even when warned to knock it off.
3. CAP Gold WR, tall as possible, fast as possible.
4. Bomb the ball on every down.

The only reason you get up so far is because you CHEAT. Period. I won't say that about many people. I played you to a stalemate despite your cheating, mainly because I forced you to stay on defense, and what do you do? Glitch block a field goal. So far as I'm concerned, you have no business even discussing the topic.

I would call it slander, but it's simply a matter of FACT. You come on here, complain that people care about being sim, and then proclaim yourself the greatest, because you can out-cheat everyone at the game. Good for you, I'm sure you were a real winner at board games and lincoln logs as a kid too. Your complaints simply aren't welcome here anymore. I personally have tried to be nice to you, and tried to be fair with you. I don't ask people to like me, but when you basically ask to be given I chance, I give it, and you come back on here and essentially slap me in the face for it....I won't tolerate it. If you take pride in cheating others, I suppose that's your right, but your right to throw punches ends at my nose. You are on about as thin of a sheet of ice as it is. One wrong move, and so help me I will make sure you never set foot here again, and if I had it in my power I'd make sure you never played this game ever again. You are nothing but a griefer, pure and simple. They aren't tolerated on WoW, they aren't tolerated pretty much on any online gaming service, and I swear they shouldn't be tolerated here either.

[zhaoyun707]

I say we find where Zeus live and cut off his balls so he can't make offsprings that would cheat in everything in life...

[DonVCorleone]

No Zeus, they quit because you pull out every glitch in the book. I played you last night, let's see if I can put a laundry list out there.

1. Move defensive linemen pre-snap to get an un-natural pass rush.
2. Manually glitch-blocking field goals, even when warned to knock it off.
3. CAP Gold WR, tall as possible, fast as possible.
4. Bomb the ball on every down.

The only reason you get up so far is because you CHEAT. Period. I won't say that about many people. I played you to a stalemate despite your cheating, mainly because I forced you to stay on defense, and what do you do? Glitch block a field goal. So far as I'm concerned, you have no business even discussing the topic.

I would call it slander, but it's simply a matter of FACT. You come on here, complain that people care about being sim, and then proclaim yourself the greatest, because you can out-cheat everyone at the game. Good for you, I'm sure you were a real winner at board games and lincoln logs as a kid too. Your complaints simply aren't welcome here anymore. I personally have tried to be nice to you, and tried to be fair with you. I don't ask people to like me, but when you basically ask to be given I chance, I give it, and you come back on here and essentially slap me in the face for it....I won't tolerate it. If you take pride in cheating others, I suppose that's your right, but your right to throw punches ends at my nose. You are on about as thin of a sheet of ice as it is. One wrong move, and so help me I will make sure you never set foot here again, and if I had it in my power I'd make sure you never played this game ever again. You are nothing but a griefer, pure and simple. They aren't tolerated on WoW, they aren't tolerated pretty much on any online gaming service, and I swear they shouldn't be tolerated here either.

i warned you about zeus being BLACKLISTEDsince madden 06

BLACKLIST never lies.

[kcxiv]

So i played Zues tonight, I said what the hell. I played him before, he beat me from his gimmicks' but i said why not. Well, i figured out his gimmick. I made him quit in the 4th quarter. He scored 10 points off me. He can always get to the 20 yard line from his deep bombs where his WR will outjump yours all the time, after that, he's clueless as to what to do. I stole this next part from Guntharr. I went to a 3-3-5 defense and just played zone keeping the rushing linebacker in zone as well, just make sure you shade your CB's to the outside and keep the middle clogged up and he doesnt know what to do.


Also, the way to beat his cheese defense is to take your tight end to whatever side he rushes at and set him to block, you neutralize his pass rush and pick away at his secondary becuase he has linebackers as safeties, Once your WR gets to the 2nd level, its an easy victory.

[Numbski]

So what did you do about him glitch-blocking FG's? That's where I finally shut it down against him. I had him beat, but he kept taking points off the board coming clean on the FG's. So far as his offense goes, I kept either picking him off, or kept my offense on the field pounding the rock, which he has NO idea what to do against. He wants to rush the passer - if he can't do that, then he'll manually jam guys into the gaps, making for VERY easy passing, or if you run a dive and get through - take it to the house.

[kcxiv]

So what did you do about him glitch-blocking FG's? That's where I finally shut it down against him. I had him beat, but he kept taking points off the board coming clean on the FG's. So far as his offense goes, I kept either picking him off, or kept my offense on the field pounding the rock, which he has NO idea what to do against. He wants to rush the passer - if he can't do that, then he'll manually jam guys into the gaps, making for VERY easy passing, or if you run a dive and get through - take it to the house.

If you put the cursor all the way up, blocks usually dont happen. He didnt block me once by doing that. You dont kick them very far, but he couldnt block mine that time. He finally quit at the 2 minute warning. lol He's a 1 trick pony on offense with his glitch deep bombing. I think i have something for that if i play him again.