Line Stunts

[ImBACKK,killah5]

Which line stunts get the most out of these positions of combination of

One left Defensive end?

One right defensive tackle?

A right Defensive end?

A left Defensive tackle?

Two Defensive ends ?

Two Defensive tackles?

[Valdarez]

Can you better define 'most'?

Line stunts in general are going to be:

1) To Close a Gap (A, B, or C)
2) To Open a Gap (for blitzing LB)
3) to creating 1 on 1 situation for Lineman move (Rip / Swim)

Each line stunt is going to provide one of the 3 items above to one degree or another based on Players, Abilities, and Defensive Stunts / OLine movements.

[ImBACKK,killah5]

Can you better define 'most'?

Line stunts in general are going to be:

1) To Close a Gap (A, B, or C)
2) To Open a Gap (for blitzing LB)
3) to creating 1 on 1 situation for Lineman move (Rip / Swim)

Each line stunt is going to provide one of the 3 items above to one degree or another based on Players, Abilities, and Defensive Stunts / OLine movements.

3)

I'm using two linemen an to be honest they are playing worse than generic linemen in terms of getting to the qb. I should be able to get double the pressure someone get's using one linemen but all I'm getting is crappy mush rushes.

[awesome1]

What 2 lineman are you using?

[ImBACKK,killah5]

An assortment of, My latest was Simmons an Leonard Marshall...and all my sacks were from generics/coverage sacks. No explosive sacks.

[Kdrontle]

3)

I'm using two linemen an to be honest they are playing worse than generic linemen in terms of getting to the qb. I should be able to get double the pressure someone get's using one linemen but all I'm getting is crappy mush rushes.

Base/all in stunts are what I like when I want my guy to use his moves the most. They won't take the outside shoulder as much and use a move instead.

[Valdarez]

In general, the DTs are going to be the ones that get doubled teamed, and based on the default line up, I believe the DT to the left (your left when facing the TV screen on defense) is the one that gets doubled teamed most of the time. If you move your LBs and shift the front 4, then you will change with DT gets double teamed. Because of this, DTs are not near as effective as DEs in the game.

Pick a DE with Swim or Rip, those have the highest chance of coming through quickly, even if you aren't playing them.

To create one on one situations in order to execute a move out of a 4 man front:

If the DE goes straight down or to the outside and the DT goes straight down or towards the DE, this will result in a 1 on 1 with the DE every time. Pick a DE with Swim / Rip and he'll have good chances of coming through clean.

The scenarios below are based on a DE / DT combo on the left side in passing situations only.

All In - DE has a chance for one on one matchup, but because of the slant in (towards the middle) there's a chance the Center will hit the DT and the Guard will move over and double team the DE.

Base - Good play to call. The Guard almost consistently hits the DT, allowing the DE to be in a 1 vs. 1 situation with the Tackle.

Pinch - Like All In. DT pulls the same direction as the All In, and this is what affects the DE's opportunity for 1 vs. 1 situation.

Fan - Good play to call. The Guard almost consistently hits the DT, allowing the DE to be in a 1 vs. 1 situation with the Tackle. Only downside is the DE is headed at an angle, away from the QB. You'll have to adjust the angle towards the QB and will lose a step if he's not pulling in your direction.

Gap Left - Same as Fan (DE / DT pull same direction)

Gap Right - Same as All in (DE / DT pull same direction)

Mix - Good if you want your DT in a one one situation, not a good play to call if you want your DE in a 1 on 1 situation. The DT will hit the Tackle, leaving the Guard and Center to block the DE.

Razor Left - Same as Fan (DE / DT pull same direction)

Razor Right - Same as Base ((DE / DT pull same direction)

Twist - This play has your DT pull towards the middle. It's about a 50% chance to hit the Guard and get double teamed by the Center. It may miss the Guard though, hit the Center, leaving your DE to get double teamed by the Guard and Tackle. Not a good play to call to get a one on one situation.

Twist Right - Same as Base (DE / DT pull same direction).

Twist Left - Same as Mix (DE / DT pull same direction).

[ImBACKK,killah5]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try Manley/Dan Sam

I was always under the impression that it's better to have the DT line up on the offensive right side than on the left. To be honest I've never had a legend DT play next to a legend DE for the majority of a game. I always figured my opponents would just run to the other side.

[Valdarez]

I was always under the impression that it's better to have the DT line up on the offensive right side than on the left. To be honest I've never had a legend DT play next to a legend DE for the majority of a game. I always figured my opponents would just run to the other side.That's true for both DT and DE for a couple of reasons. For the DT, by default, the DT to the left will get the double team by the center more, unless you do a LB shift that causes your front four to shift as well (both DEs / DTs). Guys put them on the right so they aren't double teamed as often. In addition, the offensive / defensive lines are ordered such that we have T1, G1, C1, G2, T2 on the offense, and DE1, DT1, DT2, DE2, where the number equals their starting position. This means if you put your best two players to the right side, then you will have a better chance at a mis-match skill wise because you'll have 1 & 2 on defense against 3 & 4 on offense.

This is my analysis of the defensive line, and may not be exact. Please report anything you find wrong / incorrect. I think I have a fairly good understanding of the line, and can usually get more out of a generic line than most can with a star line up just by understanding what stops what and calling the right line call for the right situation. I had started a write up on it for 2K Football Strategy site on D-Line calls, but it was so detailed, based on the Players, offensive play called pass / run (stretch, iso per gap, power, sweep), and then defensive play (line call + blitzing Gaps) that it became very, very complicated and was going to be nearly 10 pages long, or longer, when it was all said and done.

[Kdrontle]

I had started a write up on it for 2K Football Strategy site on D-Line calls, but it was so detailed, based on the Players, offensive play called pass / run (stretch, iso per gap, power, sweep), and then defensive play (line call + blitzing Gaps) that it became very, very complicated and was going to be nearly 10 pages long, or longer, when it was all said and done.

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this... I have a pretty good idea of what counters what at this point, but hearing another point of view would be great! The craziest one in my opinion is how well pinch and base kills stretch plays. You know when your 3-4 DE gets in free against a stretch? Base line call! The DE's get upfield and sneak through the guard and tackle often. It seems to counter gap calls well, as it allows the OL to hook those gapping DL and the RB can find a crease.

[Valdarez]

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on this... I have a pretty good idea of what counters what at this point, but hearing another point of view would be great! The craziest one in my opinion is how well pinch and base kills stretch plays. You know when your 3-4 DE gets in free against a stretch? Base line call! The DE's get upfield and sneak through the guard and tackle often. It seems to counter gap calls well, as it allows the OL to hook those gapping DL and the RB can find a crease.See, I can't speak for 3-4 as I don't play it all that often, except for the occasional nickel 3-3 or Dime 3-2. I know the 4-3 like the back of my hand. Tpaterniti is probably a better resource for the 3-4.

[nflhitman]

Killa if you have either Randy White, Dan Hampton, Jerome Brown, or Leon Lett at the 2nd spot on the dpeth chart for DT's than they will simply dominate if your opponent does not adjust. Dan Hampton is by far the best value but on 3rd Downs Randy White kills a QB with his clutch and Swim move.

[ImBACKK,killah5]

Killa if you have either Randy White, Dan Hampton, Jerome Brown, or Leon Lett at the 2nd spot on the dpeth chart for DT's than they will simply dominate if your opponent does not adjust. Dan Hampton is by far the best value but on 3rd Downs Randy White kills a QB with his clutch and Swim move.

Yeah I know I used both of them in DL league an they both lead the league in sacks. I'm trying to do it with 2 bronze players though. If I have a silver on the D-Line than there really is no use having another. They get by so quick their is no point.

[ImBACKK,killah5]

I played one game an at least I got one sack with Manley. I also hit theisman twice an the ball floated right into the hands of albert lewis. Pretty good results playing a DE right next to a DT. I'll continue evaluating.

[ImBACKK,killah5]

I find it annoying sometimes though. Watching people run double moves an what not I often end up replaying wondering what the hell those two linemen where doing to allow such a long play to develop while on the other hand I'm getting put down by generic linemen on a 3 step drop. Seems kind of broken if you ask me. Like 2k intentionally made two linemen play worse than one.....we'll never know though.

[nflhitman]

Killa I think you can ask anyone on here and they will tell you how much I have experimented with D-Lineman. I have had 1-4 D-Lineman on teams and the best combo to get constant pressure is to use the DT in the 2nd slot in the depth chart. The 1st DT no matter if its a generic will get double teamed more than 75% of the time while the 2nd DT is 1 on 1 most of the time. Look for this in your evaluation :D

[ImBACKK,killah5]

Killa I think you can ask anyone on here and they will tell you how much I have experimented with D-Lineman. I have had 1-4 D-Lineman on teams and the best combo to get constant pressure is to use the DT in the 2nd slot in the depth chart. The 1st DT no matter if its a generic will get double teamed more than 75% of the time while the 2nd DT is 1 on 1 most of the time. Look for this in your evaluation :D

Tell me some stunt tips to get him to do things. I dunno maybe it's my mind. When I have two linemen unless I'm playing a basic easy to read coverage I expect a sack on almost every passing down because I'm sure I can make my opponent hold the ball long enough. The thing is these clowns I get on the D-line make these pathetic mush rushes. Makes me want to just invest in two linebackers an bring in Hannibal Seals and say screw it.

[nflhitman]

Tell me some stunt tips to get him to do things. I dunno maybe it's my mind. When I have two linemen unless I'm playing a basic easy to read coverage I expect a sack on almost every passing down because I'm sure I can make my opponent hold the ball long enough. The thing is these clowns I get on the D-line make these pathetic mush rushes. Makes me want to just invest in two linebackers an bring in Hannibal Seals and say screw it.

The tips on the stunts that Val posted are right on. Go with those.

[Kdrontle]

Tell me some stunt tips to get him to do things. I dunno maybe it's my mind. When I have two linemen unless I'm playing a basic easy to read coverage I expect a sack on almost every passing down because I'm sure I can make my opponent hold the ball long enough. The thing is these clowns I get on the D-line make these pathetic mush rushes. Makes me want to just invest in two linebackers an bring in Hannibal Seals and say screw it.

I think it's all probability. Sometimes you'll just get those slow bull rushes. Deacon Jones does those very often in my experience with him. Some guys bull rush really fast. I noticed my CAP James Harrison with strength and bull rush has his "mush" animation accelerated when I mash A and he gets in there quick. I know LC Greenwood does this very often also. Outside of pinching your line all the time I don't know what else will help. This game isn't one of absolutes, things seem to always turn out different, and to be honest I think it's part of the games greatness and what keeps me coming back... it's dynamic.

[nflhitman]

Have any of you had D-line and played a game in custom lobby with the game speed turned to fast? It is night and day on how the defense reacts. If the game speed was at fast like that there would be zero issue with the offense being over powered. Seriously. If you want to test it out in a custom game I will be on shortly so hit me up.

[Kdrontle]

Have any of you had D-line and played a game in custom lobby with the game speed turned to fast? It is night and day on how the defense reacts. If the game speed was at fast like that there would be zero issue with the offense being over powered. Seriously. If you want to test it out in a custom game I will be on shortly so hit me up.

I would imagine those "mush rushes" wouldn't look so slow on fast. I remember I accidentally turned the game on fast in practice mode last week and was wondering why it was so fun to run because Parker felt so fast LOL!

[Valdarez]

One thing I want to point out about the examples I posted. You don't need 2 Stars to get pressure. In almost all situations the player that ends up in a 1v1 is the DE player with the DT usually drawing double coverage. Even if you switch to the right side the DT will still have more chance of getting double teamed than the DE on every down. A second Star will help a little, as it increases the chances of the DT will get double teamed by the Guard and Center, thus leaving the DE in a 1 on 1 situation.