Ronnie, What is going on with marketing man????????

[SupaStar911]

For those of you who don't know this, nhl 10 has put up another video again. This is really becoming annoying. When is 2k going to realize that nhl keeps growing their fanbase while nhl 2k's keeps diminishing. So far the only info that can be called info that we have seen from 2k is the Ovechkin model and the picture of the game on tv. I don't get it. Does 2k even realize that people won't buy a game they have no info about. There is no info. This is outrageous. NBA 2k info is coming out before NHL yet NHL is being released first. Fans have the right to be ticked off especially after being served that arcade game for 60 bucks last year. Where is the info Man?? I would think by now, 2k would have fired half of its marketing team seeing as their strategy has failed for 4 years straight. Nothing has changed. As a 2k fan sins 2k2, i can say i'm not the slightest bit amused. This is garbage and people like me are starting to get ticked off. I will still be picking uo nhl 10 and nhl 2k10 but all i can say is that 2k's marketing team is not doing themselves any favours. PARTY IN A BOX, thats just stupid. That statement from the 2k marketing team shows they have lost it. Are they all like 50 years old?? Party in a box doesn't appeal to anybody at all. Maybe they should try this saying, "NHL 2k10, Fun, Realistic, The complete package in a box, NHL 2k10, Get into it." This sounds a lot better than party in a box. it took me about 2 secs to come up with and i didn't go to maketing school. Sad... I'm very dissappointed to say the least.

[b-Dub]

Here, check this out: http://www.2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2481560#post2481560

Now, you may like it and you may not (chances are you won't), but it is what it is. And info will come when they are ready to share it.

[sharks14]

There are only about 2 months until release. I seriously think 2K Sports could care less about their hockey franchise. NBA comes out a month later than NHL and there is already more news on NBA 2K10. In Ronnie's Tuesday Announcements all we here is that "our time is coming". When will he actually give us real news? It actually looks like the time for NHL fans will never come.

[stoney0ne]

well, that NBA vs NHL thing is a loosing battle. We all know that. They will get more attention, simply because there are more of them.

[macpuck]

And the way to improve the ratio is to do nothing differently? Sounds like 2K logic. And it's not very logical.

[JesusisLord]

Where is the info? I might as well just by EA's 10 at least i know the game.
C'mon 2k, i wanna give this game a chance but there is not enough info to give a chance to.

[stoney0ne]

And the way to improve the ratio is to do nothing differently? Sounds like 2K logic. And it's not very logical.

its got nothing to do with 2k.. its a national perception thing

[SupaStar911]

b-dub, u were right. I wasn't the slightest bit impressed. Thats what i call stupid. If 2k does not have enough info to release tidbits each week till we get to the meat and bones in august, thats sad and doesn't speak well of what they have to offer. Yes EA has been releasing info but not the meat of the info, They are just releasing minor adjustments to keep their fans interested. getting developer videos out, etc. When is 2k going to learn. You don't build a large fanbase over 3 weeks. 3 weeks before release. The more time people have getting exposed to your product, the better it is for you. Not everyone who buys hockey games goes on forums like us. Not a single video of anything nhl 2k has come on the net. its a sad too watch

[macpuck]

In order to improve you have to first understand and acknowledge that you have a NEED to improve and to do better.

[Grandmaster D]

And the way to improve the ratio is to do nothing differently? Sounds like 2K logic. And it's not very logical.

Just wanted to feed this with some MGC-numbers:

overall numbers, june 3rd:

NHL 2K7: 67217
NHL 07: 130211
2K: 0.340

NHL 2K8: 28020
NHL 08: 105041
2K: 0.211

NHL 2K9: 13890
NHL 09: 116108
2K: 0.107

(Link (http://2ksports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183889))

Though I think, 2K10 will be a great game, I don't like the idea of a "bring the fun back to hockey" part II-campaign. Maybe it provided good sales on Wii, but then again, each time I checked, that version was behind the others in the relative sales rank of the amazons.

[stoney0ne]

can you explain what the number represent a little?

[Grandmaster D]

Most important: Those are not sales numbers.
Copied from the linked page:
Where is the data from?
I use mygamercard.net for all the data. On that site, Xbox 360 users can register their Gamertags so that leaderboards are generated. One can filter for specific games and countries. Total number of registered GTs at the moment: 2 282 203

Limitations of the data.
- Obviously, the informations are only given for 360 users who registered there.
- Non english native speakers seem to be underrepresented.
- The data does not directly translate into sales. It just gives information, that a user had the game in their console and was logged in to Xbox Live. So it's not apparent, if the game was bought, lent/rent or maybe even pirate copied or if you registered multiple Gamertags.
- Without extremely much effort it is also not viewable, if the game is still played - one gamertag information transfer is enough to be on the list.
The GT number is higher by now.
Basically what I did is checking the named site for how many GTs have the games showing up. That doesn't give sales, but a good estimation, how the games in comparison fared. The bold numbers are this: <number GTs showing 2K game> : (<number GTs showing 2K game> + <number GTs showing EA game>)
So 0.107 means 2K9 is 10.7% of combined showing ups of 2K9 and 09.
Obviously there are flaws in that calculation and data basis, but it's better than anything we get.

[stoney0ne]

thank you...

[Scorchy117]

Where is the info? I might as well just by EA's 10 at least i know the game.
C'mon 2k, i wanna give this game a chance but there is not enough info to give a chance to.

damn dude give it some time... the more they rush the game the worst it will be... Just wait..

[macpuck]

We've been waiting for a genuinely improved and more polished game for four years. Forget the unnecessary frills, extras, gimmicks and gizmos ... IMPROVE THE PLAYABILITY and, less importantly, the look, The best game of the four was 2008 and 2K quickly abandoned what was a promising path. How does that promote patience?

[sleepytercel]

We've been waiting for a genuinely improved and more polished game for four years. Forget the unnecessary frills, extras, gimmicks and gizmos ... IMPROVE THE PLAYABILITY and, less importantly, the look, The best game of the four was 2008 and 2K quickly abandoned what was a promising path. How does that promote patience?

I feel that my replying to you will be pointless, but there is a contradiction here. They actually didn't abandoned quick enough. Kush Games gave you those four years of hope. The whole point of switching developers was so that the games could become more playable and more stable. It will be interesting in seeing the turnout for NHL2K10 and I can't wait to see what 2K's decision will come about. NHL2K9 was a foundation, but limited as a new team took production and had to band-aid a game together. However, no one knows how this year will be, and the past is irrelevant because Kush is no longer in control of this franchise.

[sleepytercel]

Anyone who has any history and knowledge of 2K and their marketing, should already know that they typically release real news about 3 weeks before game release. Their strategy is one that does work, as it has worked with NBA2K. There's really no more news on the NBA game than there is of NHL. My interpretation of the marketing logic, is that, the last thing people will see and hear, will be about 2K's game. It's frustrating because we have to wait, but this marketing worked wonders for the NBA franchise. Everyone was saying how they were getting Live until about 2 to 3 weeks of both games release because 2K just flooded information into people's brains and the last thought in their head was 2K's game, basically since EA had nothing more to promote their game. Basically, you'll have equal info on both games before either get released.

[macpuck]

If 2K can come up with "more playable and more stable (not sure exactly what the stable element suggests--fewer glitches?)'', then more power to them. If that happens, then the change was worthwhile, even though 2K9 was a disaster that will be difficult to recover from. Maybe 2K10 will not only be better but will be promoted more effectively. Perhaps if you could go for the last month publicity push. Maybe if you were even ... maybe if you were slightly behind. BUT NOT IF YOU ARE FAR, FAR, FAR BEHIND AND FIGHTING FOR YOUR ECONOMIC LIFE! The NBA game already had some status in the marketplace ... 2K's NHL game has fallen off a cliff and so a different strategy is needed.

Forgive my skepticism but I just don't see much evidence that 2K understands its problems, let alone has come up with a viable plan to overcome most of them. I really enjoyed NHL2k8 but then came the no-update fiasco and the changes that were not for the better. In my view, it's a little unrealistic to expect people to be optimistic after the events of the last four years. Hopefull? Yes. Optimistic? Certainly not at this point.

[sleepytercel]

If 2K can come up with "more playable and more stable (not sure exactly what that means), then more power to them. If that happens, then the change was worthwhile, even though 2K9 was a disaster that will be difficult to recover from, Maybe 2K10 will not only be better but will be promoted more effectively. Maybe.
Forgive my skepticism but I just don't see much evidence that 2K understands its problems, let alone has come up with a viable plan to overcome most of them. I really enjoyed NHL2k8 but then came the no-update fiasco and the changes that were not for the better. In my view, it's a little unrealistic to expect people to be optimistic after the events of the last four years. Hopefull? Yes. Optimistic? Certainly not at this point.

"Stable" meaning, "no game crashes".

I will let 2K9 slide. The report that Kush has been fired was a few months after the release of MLB2K8, so we'll say roughly around May or June. I don't know how much influence and time Visual Concepts had on 2K9, as that would be an extremely short amount of time to complete a game, and a good one at that. However, I did like some of the gameplay changes in 2K9, and the game did seem to flow a bit better engine wise. I think it's very noticed that VC's focus was to begin a new engine to work with, and it was something that was really needed. After all, Kush has been using engines from the developers before them in both MLB and NHL, which may have kept those games from being as polished as they should have been. The one reason I am more optimistic this year, is that Visual Concepts has a proven history of great sports games, and they actually had an entire development cycle to create this game. They already have an engine and foundation in place, so it will be very interesting to see the turnout. I wouldn't take too much in from 2K9.

[JesusisLord]

damn dude give it some time... the more they rush the game the worst it will be... Just wait..

Your right though, I will give it some time. I'm just anxious like everybody else for some information concerning NHL 2k10

[stoney0ne]

i cant go all in with "2k9 was a disaster"


it had its holes... but i know i had a ton of fun with the game and got my 60 bucks out of it...


to me at the end of the day.. the value of a game is the entertainment value it provided.. i certainly got plenty of entertainment out of 2k9

[macpuck]

I definitely didn't get my money's worth and, instead, went back to playing 2k8. There were simply too many elements of the game, especially in franchise mode, that simply didn't work. The menus were horrible, a fact made more annoying by the lack of lobbies. It just wasn't a well thought out product in my opinion. In any case, I hope those of you who believe 2K will finally get it right with the 2010 edition prove to be correct. It would be nice to have an assortment of hockey entertainment choices. I get the distinct impression that EA is moving too far (for my liking) toward an emphasis on fighting and the physical play along the boards and so it is possible that 2K could end up with the most balanced, realistic hockey game available for 2010. For me, hockey is primarily a game of speed and skating agility, plus puck handling ability. When Herb Brooks would choose a small, quick player ahead of a larger, slower player he would always say."Remember, this game ain't played on grass.'' I hope 2K can give us a truer feeling of a game that is played on ice. For one thing, skating, stickhandling and just carrying the puck shouldn't feel the same, no matter what level player the gamer is controling. I believe the ratings need to have a larger impact on gameplay. Trying to create puck control and passing accuracy from Donald Brashear ought to be a lot more difficult for the gamer than it would be if he was controling Sid the Kid.

[SupaStar911]

yes 2k floods the market with info 3 weeks vbefore their game release but its a rarity that people see the info. in calgary, there was no 2k9 commercial. you wouldn't even know it exsisted except you where looking for it. oonly hardcore 2k fans get infor because they do a terrible job of marketing. i went on ign and thats how i saw nba 2k9 innfo. There are a lot of gamers who don't go on these sites so they miss out. I'm sure a couple of tv commercials wouldn't hurt. some developer videos and blogs wouldn't hurt as well.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

Trying to decipher what information is released and how it's disseminated is, in regards to 2k hockey, a fool's errand and an act in futility. The staff of Team 2k, I'm quite sure, has heard the voices of the many who were unhappy with 2k9 and, hopefully, are acting accordingly, meaning a much better product will be presented in the form of NHL 2k10. If not, then the market place will take its due course and NHL 2k10 will suffer the consequences.

Which brings me to my point, the reason NHL 08 - 09 out performed 2k8 - 2k9 is, simply put, that it was deemed to be a better game by the hockey video game consumers. EA grabbed the market with the "skill stick" and then the "Be a Pro" aspects of their games. They did not win the hockey video game market with how much and how well they released early information. I know personally from listening to kids at the rink that word of mouth took care of them purchasing EA's product.

Ranting and raving about the lack of information won't help to change a darn thing. I know I've been guilty of the occasional rant, and admittedly it does feel good to vent, and it is absolutely vital to let the manufacturer know what you like and don't like about their product, but at some point it becomes counterproductive. The negativity that then develops will eventually start to envelop the product and will begin to slowly suffocate it. We are getting to that point with our beloved 2k hockey. I'm not advocating we stop offering criticisms but what I am advocating is giving 2k some room to breathe and see what 2k10 has to offer in September.

[kcxiv]

Isnt it all that matters is if you get the info you n eed and the demo before the game comes out? Both games will be out on the same day.

[2K Admin Ron]

I know the perception is we are behind marketing wise when you do a comparison to NBA. But they are two different teams with two different strategies. I am building a community plan for both, and NHL will be more packed together than NBA to follow the overall marketing plan.

[stoney0ne]

hopefully that plan includes early beta codes for 2kforums poster :D

[sharks14]

Nothing about NHL in the new Tuesday blog. They sure are waiting until the last minute to release news.

[vanhalendlrband]

People have some points tho. When does it become too late that people will not even notice 2K10 because they made up their mind a long time ago. However, most people that play EA NHL will not give 2K even a rent or a try.

I went over to my friends place and i could only convince one person to even play the game.

Don't know what EA does in their games but they sure got their fans brainwashed.

I also have to say to whomever said NHL 08-09 outperformed NHL 2K8-9 in what aspect i'm wondering? Marketing?

EA NHL is probably the most horrible rendition of what should be a hockey game. 90% of that game is still built on NHL 2002 arcade garbage, and you can tell. It plays just like every single EA hockey game, it has that "EA feel". No matter how horrible 2K9 was in terms of extras being taken away and less features, it still was better than EA in terms of Simulation style hockey. Thats not saying its sim, because out of all 2K games 2K9 was the most arcadey game i've played besides EA 09.

And as for 2K8 that was probably the best game until everyone was too lazy to learn the new controls and just complained the whole time till they ruined the game.

Lets lay it out for people they had 3 bloody different control settings in 2K8. Yet people still complained about it because they wanted to use the "EA stick", its the "most realistic way to play". It wasn't tho, the 2K8 controls were by far more realistic and more intricate than EA could ever dream of. And boy did there hearts stop thumping when they realised how stupid the general population is, and how they could never get past anything that is even somewhat difficult to learn.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

I also have to say to whomever said NHL 08-09 outperformed NHL 2K8-9 in what aspect i'm wondering? Marketing?

Exactly. Well not exactly, marketing and sales.

The consuming public made its choice in 2008 and 2009 and they chose the ea product overwhelmingly. I prefer 2k8 by leaps and bounds over 08 or 09 and to a slightly lesser degree, I think 2k9 is a better hockey game as well.

From a sim standpoint 2k is the much better product.

[macpuck]

... "more packed together" ...???

[Honome]

... "more packed together" ...???

i´m wondering what could possible be packed together with NHL2K10... maybe a botlle o VALIUM so, next year, when our franchise freezes in stead of we complain with 2K we simply take some pills and be cooooooooooooool... :cool:

[SupaStar911]

i think it means that we'll see info about nhl 2k10 in august because they are gonna run the same strategy as always. The term "more packed together"(improper english) basically lets us know that they are going to release lots of info in a short span of time in an attempt to flood our minds with nhl 2k10 info so we go out and buy it.

[Pharseer12]

hopefully that plan includes early beta codes for 2kforums poster :D

Now that would be amazing, we have been patient.

[MarlaYouTourist]

Remember the $20 hook they had for all the 2k games? I think thats the year I made the switch. My friend and I always like playing a season mode on the nba/nhl that allowed for 2 separate users and EA inexplicably stopped allowing more than one user to control a franchise. We saw all the 2k games were 20 bucks, picked up a few and were blown away by the game play, graphics, and the options. I never really saw myself as a target for marketing but I can tell you that I recall many times seeing EA commercials AFTER I committed to the 2k series and wondered where the 2k marketing was.

Comparing NBA and NHL titles and the marketing around each I think is a mistake. The NBA is much bigger business. And the NHL is to blame for a lot of it, they don't market their stars well at all. The hardcore hockey fan knows exactly who the NBA stars are, do you think the same is true for basketball?

[Pattsworld2003]

NHL 2K10 Needs new Look like sega 1994 playing with new Graphics last year that killed people from buying the game. Was the Game play controll and the burst of speed and the camera angle.
This what the 2K10 needs.
Game Speed.
The Game controll Play on the ice.
Camera Angle
The Graphics
Better Graphics.

[vanhalendlrband]

The graphics are fine. The ice and stadiums look FAR better than EA's. Probably because 2K has more experience making hockey rinks than EA who used to just clone GM Place with different scoreboards.

The problem is glitches
too many easy ways to score
too easy playing ranked games
the game speed and on ice stuff is definitely in need of more simulation

[Pharseer12]

Well looks like 3 new videos of NHL 10 have been posted.

Now we just need a video, not mo-cap of Ovechkin, but of NHL 2K10 to tide us over.

Please 2k marketing dept, just a little something.

[nmuwildcat]

Well looks like 3 new videos of NHL 10 have been posted.

Now we just need a video, not mo-cap of Ovechkin, but of NHL 2K10 to tide us over.

Please 2k marketing dept, just a little something.

Why? To appease the tens of fans who are already going to get 2k10?

I would rather let EA blow their videos now, and then let 2k flood the marketing right before the release. 2k cannot compete against the EA juggernaut outright (too many fan boys who will buy their product)... but they can compete for the impulse buyers leading up to the release.

[Pharseer12]

Why? To appease the tens of fans who are already going to get 2k10?

I would rather let EA blow their videos now, and then let 2k flood the marketing right before the release. 2k cannot compete against the EA juggernaut outright (too many fan boys who will buy their product)... but they can compete for the impulse buyers leading up to the release.

Why?

So maybe the budget-minded people amongst us who are experiencing some tough financial times can plan their fall purchases accordingly.

Some people will only be able to buy one NHL title this year, the further ahead we can plan our purchase the better.

[RoadDoggFL]

It only takes a few minutes to change someone's mind. Someone who budgets a $50 purchase more than a month in advance will be willing to change his mind if another game seems to appeal to him more close to the time of release. He wants to get the most for his money and if that looks like it'll be 2K10, I don't see how it'll be any different if he sees the info any earlier.

You guys are acting like everybody pre-orders (and that they can't be changed).

[Pharseer12]

It only takes a few minutes to change someone's mind. Someone who budgets a $50 purchase more than a month in advance will be willing to change his mind if another game seems to appeal to him more close to the time of release. He wants to get the most for his money and if that looks like it'll be 2K10, I don't see how it'll be any different if he sees the info any earlier.

You guys are acting like everybody pre-orders (and that they can't be changed).

Since you don't see what the difference is.....

There are certain retailers who offer certain deals, whether that's free shipping if you order in a specified timeframe, or special rates on rewards points due to a limited time offer.

And no, once you place your order under their limited terms, there are no changes allowed, unless you want to cancel out and lose the whole bonus offer in the first place.

[RoadDoggFL]

Since you don't see what the difference is.....

There are certain retailers who offer certain deals, whether that's free shipping if you order in a specified timeframe, or special rates on rewards points due to a limited time offer.

And no, once you place your order under their limited terms, there are no changes allowed, unless you want to cancel out and lose the whole bonus offer in the first place.

And those certain deals at certain retailers count for like 20 billion copies sold.

I doubt 2K legitimately expects to outsell EA. This year's about reviving brand confidence. If a concentrated media blitz gets the word out as effectively, what's it matter to you? Will you care a month after the game's release that you didn't know everything about the game four months earlier?

[Bruins fan 4 life]

No matter how much you try to convince people that it's all about the final product they won't get it. 2k's only job should be to produce the very best game they can. The final product will speak for itself, not the months of hype or pre-information leading up to it.

Seriously, what if EA's game lays an egg this year? Will anyone remember all of the great info that was released before hand?

[macpuck]

If EA's game lays an egg they will probably do well anyway because of the momentum created last season. When you are playing catchup, you've got to do a little more in marketing and then back it up with a superior product to be competitive again.

[SpectralThundr]

And those certain deals at certain retailers count for like 20 billion copies sold.

I doubt 2K legitimately expects to outsell EA. This year's about reviving brand confidence. If a concentrated media blitz gets the word out as effectively, what's it matter to you? Will you care a month after the game's release that you didn't know everything about the game four months earlier?

Kinda hard to revive brand confidence when the only info you have put out about the game 8 weeks before release is about Wii mote sounds. Just saying. Nice highlights btw, were you trying to point out how awful 2k9's goalie logic was in those?

[nmuwildcat]

Kinda hard to revive brand confidence when the only info you have put out about the game 8 weeks before release is about Wii mote sounds. Just saying. Nice highlights btw, were you trying to point out how awful 2k9's goalie logic was in those?

So 2k released information about what their game will do on the Wii eight weeks before launch, and you're unimpressed? That beats the he** out of ALL the information that EA has released so far about their Wii version... :dance:

Waits to see how many people are a little slow on the uptake that EA doesn't provide a Wii version...

[SpectralThundr]

So 2k released information about what their game will do on the Wii eight weeks before launch, and you're unimpressed? That beats the he** out of ALL the information that EA has released so far about their Wii version... :dance:

Waits to see how many people are a little slow on the uptake that EA doesn't provide a Wii version...

Thats because no one that is a hardcore sports gamer cares about the Wii and rather than waste resources on a subpar system their focus is on the actual current gen systems. You know, the ones that actual most sports gamers own? Whats really unimpressive is EA puts out more info in a week than 2k does in a span of months.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

If EA's game lays an egg they will probably do well anyway because of the momentum created last season. When you are playing catchup, you've got to do a little more in marketing and then back it up with a superior product to be competitive again.

Oh, I'm not saying EA won't do well, it most certainly will. My point of contention was that hype doesn't necessarily equate to quality. In the entertainment field, of which video gaming is a part of, it seems to me that hype goes along way to ensuring monetary success but doesn't guarantee quality.

I understand your point about marketing, but for me, 2k has to concern itself primarily with producing a quality product this year first and foremost. EA has the luxury this year of riding on the coattails of previous year's products, the same as 2k has in the past, but as 2k has learned all it takes is one or two less than stellar games and all that coattail riding dries up.

I'm just hoping for two quality products this year and I think we're headed in that direction (fingers crossed).

[JesusisLord]

good news, Bish at 2khockey said news is coming and there is also confirmation from Ronnie 2k that there is news coming and there might be a community event. Link here: http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=ronnie+2k&init=quick#/note.php?note_id=100864648829&ref=mf

[Savoie06]

Nice highlights btw, were you trying to point out how awful 2k9's goalie logic was in those? You know there were sliders to adjust that awful goalie logic. The goalies seem fine once you find the right set of slider settings for them.

[sharks14]

Whenever Ronnie says news is coming it never does. News has been coming for three weeks now according to him. I think he means coming as in news is coming before release. Well duh. He is hardly informative anymore. He overhypes everything.

[RoadDoggFL]

If EA's game lays an egg they will probably do well anyway because of the momentum created last season. When you are playing catchup, you've got to do a little more in marketing and then back it up with a superior product to be competitive again.

Why hype the superior product until you're sure it's superior? Why divert funds from development on marketing when you don't even know if your product will compare? 2K9 was the foundation for a good 2K10 and 2K10 may very well be the foundation for a successful 2K11.

Kinda hard to revive brand confidence when the only info you have put out about the game 8 weeks before release is about Wii mote sounds. Just saying. Nice highlights btw, were you trying to point out how awful 2k9's goalie logic was in those?

That's not the only info we have. Why should I take you seriously when you make factually incorrect posts?

Thats because no one that is a hardcore sports gamer cares about the Wii and rather than waste resources on a subpar system their focus is on the actual current gen systems. You know, the ones that actual most sports gamers own? Whats really unimpressive is EA puts out more info in a week than 2k does in a span of months.

Do you sleep better at night snubbing your nose at the most successful and dominant console of this generation?

[stoney0ne]

the suspense of next week is killing me



rons either going to have people eating their words... or im going to be pounding that delete option all week long because of absurd trolling



please ron :bow:

[Flexxer27]

Whenever Ronnie says news is coming it never does. News has been coming for three weeks now according to him. I think he means coming as in news is coming before release. Well duh. He is hardly informative anymore. He over-hypes everything.

Ya know I wanted to make a post like this but I got thinking about his world and how many
game's 2K is about or have pushed out in this last time frame and its understandable why
Ron would blurt out at NHL 2K10....... it's there......... its coming....... its going to be GOOD!
But he has to deal with the others first, still its there on his mind and he can't help himself saying "news is coming". I know its coming and I think I know when and its close!

As for EA........ who here really give's a sh*t?

[SpectralThundr]

Why hype the superior product until you're sure it's superior? Why divert funds from development on marketing when you don't even know if your product will compare? 2K9 was the foundation for a good 2K10 and 2K10 may very well be the foundation for a successful 2K11.



That's not the only info we have. Why should I take you seriously when you make factually incorrect posts?



Do you sleep better at night snubbing your nose at the most successful and dominant console of this generation?

You seem to be under this illusion that development and marketing budgets are one and the same. Thats simply not the case. At any rate hyping a product 3 weeks before release will never be as sucessful as a steady stream of marketing for months prior to a product shipping. Thats just common sense.

I'd love to see this other confirmed info that you have by the way. If you're solely talking about a tidbit here and there from WWTC, I'd hardly take anything from him without a grain of salt to begin with.

I sleep fine at night, I have no interest in a system with last gen graphics and a gimmicky motion controler, that has more shovelware than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Its great for Nintendo the Wii is selling so well. I just have zero interest in it.

[RoadDoggFL]

You seem to be under this illusion that development and marketing budgets are one and the same. Thats simply not the case. At any rate hyping a product 3 weeks before release will never be as sucessful as a steady stream of marketing for months prior to a product shipping. Thats just common sense.
No, they're entirely unrelated. No way is it possible that extra funds that would've gone to marketing were diverted to development to help improve the game. It's also impossible to think that making a solid game and cultivating a grassroots appreciation in anticipation for a bigger campaign next year is part of the plan. Nope, just throw a tantrum because you don't have the info you have now.

I'd love to see this other confirmed info that you have by the way. If you're solely talking about a tidbit here and there from WWTC, I'd hardly take anything from him without a grain of salt to begin with.
You said we only have Wiimote sounds as all the info that's out about the game. Didn't say confirmed, but regardless there's more that's out about the game than just the noises and WWTC's posts.

I sleep fine at night, I have no interest in a system with last gen graphics and a gimmicky motion controler, that has more shovelware than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Its great for Nintendo the Wii is selling so well. I just have zero interest in it.
Yeah, you have no interest in it. But I bet that like many other gamers this generation, you're borderline obsessed with criticizing it at every turn. It's cool, though. You're free to do what you want, I see MS and Sony mimicking Nintendo and correctly identify the innovator. You make fun of graphics because pretty pictures and shiny things fascinate you.

[SpectralThundr]

No, they're entirely unrelated. No way is it possible that extra funds that would've gone to marketing were diverted to development to help improve the game. It's also impossible to think that making a solid game and cultivating a grassroots appreciation in anticipation for a bigger campaign next year is part of the plan. Nope, just throw a tantrum because you don't have the info you have now.


You said we only have Wiimote sounds as all the info that's out about the game. Didn't say confirmed, but regardless there's more that's out about the game than just the noises and WWTC's posts.


Yeah, you have no interest in it. But I bet that like many other gamers this generation, you're borderline obsessed with criticizing it at every turn. It's cool, though. You're free to do what you want, I see MS and Sony mimicking Nintendo and correctly identify the innovator. You make fun of graphics because pretty pictures and shiny things fascinate you.

So basically you're saying before NHL2k10 is out, the're already writing it off and banking on 2k11? 2k10 could very well be solid, personally as a hockey fan I'd love to have both games be great. But take into account how many people who were 2k diehards with hockey just a couple short years ago have gone back to playing EA's game due to the lack of effort the past couple releases? Is it really a smart business decision to not even try to get the word out that hey 2k10 will be a great game! All you guys who went with EA last year may want to take a look at what we worked hard on this year! Not getting information out about the game does way more to hurt the potential sales of the game than help it. More sales = bigger budget = better 2k11. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that out. Take off your rose colored glasses for half a second and look at the situation realistically and logically.

Again, link me to all this info that you're aparently the sole witness to. Look at any sports forum around the Intraweb, 2k's marketing, especially when it comes to NHL is pretty much looked on as a laughing stock, and exactly how NOT to market a game.

Way to twist my words around about the Wii as well, because I have no interest in it, that automatically makes me all about shiny graphics.. Rightttt..

[Bruins fan 4 life]

Ya know I wanted to make a post like this but I got thinking about his world and how many
game's 2K is about or have pushed out in this last time frame and its understandable why
Ron would blurt out at NHL 2K10....... it's there......... its coming....... its going to be GOOD!
But he has to deal with the others first, still its there on his mind and he can't help himself saying "news is coming". I know its coming and I think I know when and its close!

No doubt Flexxr. I've often wanted to throw in the "I've heard news is coming before and then nothing materializes" statement but then I come to my senses and realize it'd be just white noise at this point. He is as anxious as anyone to release some info and maybe that gets the best of him sometimes.

All of this speculation on Ronnie's job responsibilities, (i.e. what he should or shouldn't be doing) is great fodder for forums like this; but in the end, I have to believe, none of us have a clue as to what Ronnie's job really consists of, other than being a spokesperson for what seems to be all of 2k sports titles. If you ask me, that is a lot to keep up with.

So basically you're saying before NHL2k10 is out, the're already writing it off and banking on 2k11? 2k10 could very well be solid, personally as a hockey fan I'd love to have both games be great. But take into account how many people who were 2k diehards with hockey just a couple short years ago have gone back to playing EA's game due to the lack of effort the past couple releases?

And 2k can win them back as well with a quality product. Their wasn't this mass exodus from 2k to EA all of the sudden, it was a slow migration that started when NHL 07 was released, then more left with 08 and 09. With a quality product this year 2k will stop the hemorrhaging and begin the waning back of the public. It's the natural course of events, unless one product is so superior for such a long period of time it totally devours the competition, but with the solid foundation 2k has in 2k9 I don't see that as the case. We should, as you say you hope for, have two good games this year.

[macpuck]

Two good games? That would be great ... but 2K has a lot to prove as far as being back in the mix. So far, we have seen little promotion, let alone proof in the form of an improved product. It's still relentlessly obvious that hockey is a low, low priority item for 2K.

[SpectralThundr]

And 2k can win them back as well with a quality product. Their wasn't this mass exodus from 2k to EA all of the sudden, it was a slow migration that started when NHL 07 was released, then more left with 08 and 09. With a quality product this year 2k will stop the hemorrhaging and begin the waning back of the public. It's the natural course of events, unless one product is so superior for such a long period of time it totally devours the competition, but with the solid foundation 2k has in 2k9 I don't see that as the case. We should, as you say you hope for, have two good games this year.

For sure, and I do completely agree with you. Its just when things like the franchise freeze go unfixed year after year, and for the second year in a row a lack of really any marketing what so ever, one tends to have alarm bells go off wondering about the direction of the game.

Personally I'm not completely on board that 2k9 was a solid foundation for anything. Momentum was way over done much the way it is in NBA2k9, there's so many animations you never really feel like you're in control of your player, I'm all for having skating momentum but when it results in skaters making these huge wide turns and AI players not being aware of turn overs in the neutral zone, just continuing on their path to the defensive end without a quick stop to hop back on the offense. Along with imo **** poor positional AI (another thing that has long been wrong with 2k's hockey) For me personally I'd like some proof that things will indeed be alot better.

Don't even get me started on the goalie AI, sure the save animations are great, but its bad when no matter what your goalie sliders are at you're sure to see at least once a game a goalie either skate out of his net for no reason generally giving up an easy goal, or flat out not reacting on a shot he clearly should have seen (not screened) that to me is worrying.

More so being this close to release and we've yet to see any gameplay footage, or even screenshots.
If 2k as a company wants to prove this "new" (and I put that in quotes just because how obvious it was of so much left over code from 2k6/7/8 in 2k9) engine is the cats meow, now would be the time to do it, not a week or two before the game ships or at worse a demo AFTER the game ships which they've done with other games in the line before.

I'm all with you that if they put out a quality title people will gladly take another look at the series, but like Mac says, they have far more to prove this year than EA does. Especially when you take into consideration EA's reaching out to the fanbase for input on what to improve, community days early enough in the cycle to get improvements in the same year etc. Which is something 2k doesn't seem to get.

With the reveal of GM mode and just how bare bones 2k9's franchise mode was its just another reason I'm alot more skeptical of just how 2k10 is going to turn out vs NHL10. Money is tight these days, NHL10 is pretty much a definate buy for me based on the information already given. I'd like to say the same for 2k10, the problem is there's so very little information to go on, and 2k9 was pretty lackluster imo that as of right now it will be a gamefly rental and not 50 dollars in 2k's coffers.

Which in the long run for 2k thats a bad thing as again less sales= less budget allocated to the NHL series.

[nmuwildcat]

I sleep fine at night, I have no interest in a system with last gen graphics and a gimmicky motion controler, that has more shovelware than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Its great for Nintendo the Wii is selling so well. I just have zero interest in it.
Gimmicky controls? Why is the PS3 and 360 tripping over themselves trying to push the same motion sensor technology out for their systems? In fact, waving gimmicky chunks of plastic around to control a game was FIRST popular back on the PS2 and 360 with Guitar Hero.


Yeah, you have no interest in it. But I bet that like many other gamers this generation, you're borderline obsessed with criticizing it at every turn. It's cool, though. You're free to do what you want, I see MS and Sony mimicking Nintendo and correctly identify the innovator. You make fun of graphics because pretty pictures and shiny things fascinate you. :rotfl:

[SpectralThundr]

Yep its a gimick, just like MS's Natal and Sony's Sixcrapsix or whatever they call it is also a gimick to try and cash in on the Wii's success. When I play games I want to relax, sit on my couch and play. I have no desire to swing my arms around or fake I'm swinging a golf club. If I wanted to go out and play golf I'd go out to a real course. When I'm gaming in my living room I want to just kick back and play.

There are people who obviously like that sort of thing, just based on the Wii's sales, I'm not one of them.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

Two good games? That would be great ... but 2K has a lot to prove as far as being back in the mix. So far, we have seen little promotion, let alone proof in the form of an improved product. It's still relentlessly obvious that hockey is a low, low priority item for 2K.
I'm all with you that if they put out a quality title people will gladly take another look at the series, but like Mac says, they have far more to prove this year than EA does.
I here ya'. 2k does have a long way to go to win back people. As far as being a low priority, for me that goes under the "everything is relative" department. They are obviously going to pay more attention to the titles that sell more.

For sure, and I do completely agree with you. Its just when things like the franchise freeze go unfixed year after year, and for the second year in a row a lack of really any marketing what so ever, one tends to have alarm bells go off wondering about the direction of the game.

You're correct about the freezing issue. It's way past time for this to be fixed. If they've done nothing else this year I hope they got the code sorted out. I love 2k's franchise mode and I'll probably still love it over the Be a GM Mode that 10 is offering, but you have to be able to play it without it freezing up on you.

Personally I'm not completely on board that 2k9 was a solid foundation for anything. Momentum was way over done much the way it is in NBA2k9, there's so many animations you never really feel like you're in control of your player, I'm all for having skating momentum but when it results in skaters making these huge wide turns and AI players not being aware of turn overs in the neutral zone, just continuing on their path to the defensive end without a quick stop to hop back on the offense. Along with imo **** poor positional AI (another thing that has long been wrong with 2k's hockey) For me personally I'd like some proof that things will indeed be alot better.

I have to disagree with you that 2k9 isn't a solid foundation. The criticisms you offer are valid and provable but at the same time fixable. I've always contended that 2k just feels more alive than ea. I always feel the atmosphere of a 2k game is pitch perfect. For those reasons alone I enjoy playing it much more.

Yep its a gimick, just like MS's Natal and Sony's Sixcrapsix or whatever they call it is also a gimick to try and cash in on the Wii's success. When I play games I want to relax, sit on my couch and play. I have no desire to swing my arms around or fake I'm swinging a golf club. If I wanted to go out and play golf I'd go out to a real course. When I'm gaming in my living room I want to just kick back and play.

There are people who obviously like that sort of thing, just based on the Wii's sales, I'm not one of them.

Definition of gimmick from dictionary.com:
–noun
1. an ingenious or novel device, scheme, or stratagem, esp. one designed to attract attention or increase appeal.

Obviously it's a gimmick, whether or not it's a good or bad gimmick is up to the individual to decide. I personally like the Wii for family games just not for my hardcore sporting games but if 2k puts out a decent 2k10 then I'll be sure to give it a whirl.

[SpectralThundr]

While we have a difference of opinion on some of 2k9's aspects, Bruins4Life, I have to give you credit for being able to rationally have a discusion without needing to resort for personal insults like some people *cough Roaddog cough* Refreshing to see on the web. Good debate man.

[macpuck]

Well said ... but you'd better get something for that cough.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

While we have a difference of opinion on some of 2k9's aspects, Bruins4Life, I have to give you credit for being able to rationally have a discusion without needing to resort for personal insults like some people *cough Roaddog cough* Refreshing to see on the web. Good debate man.

Right back at ya'.

I hope the debate isn't over yet though, we just got going. :lol:

[RoadDoggFL]

So basically you're saying before NHL2k10 is out, the're already writing it off and banking on 2k11? 2k10 could very well be solid, personally as a hockey fan I'd love to have both games be great. But take into account how many people who were 2k diehards with hockey just a couple short years ago have gone back to playing EA's game due to the lack of effort the past couple releases? Is it really a smart business decision to not even try to get the word out that hey 2k10 will be a great game! All you guys who went with EA last year may want to take a look at what we worked hard on this year! Not getting information out about the game does way more to hurt the potential sales of the game than help it. More sales = bigger budget = better 2k11. It doesn't take rocket science to figure that out. Take off your rose colored glasses for half a second and look at the situation realistically and logically.

Again, link me to all this info that you're aparently the sole witness to. Look at any sports forum around the Intraweb, 2k's marketing, especially when it comes to NHL is pretty much looked on as a laughing stock, and exactly how NOT to market a game.

Way to twist my words around about the Wii as well, because I have no interest in it, that automatically makes me all about shiny graphics.. Rightttt..

But hyping up the product a year early could negate the effect it has the following year. Right now, huge hype would get into people's heads like "so what? 2K9 was ***." But with a low key 2K10 and hyping up 2K11, there'd be the consciousness that the year before was a great game, and they'd be hyping improvements rather than just features and areas where they're playing catch-up.

Nope, I'm not the sole witness to any info, you're just forgetting about it. Until you start making factually correct posts (identifying information as information), my opinion of you won't change. Not like it matters, but I'm not going to hold your hand here.

Also, I didn't twist your words:

I have no interest in a system with last gen graphics

^bam

While we have a difference of opinion on some of 2k9's aspects, Bruins4Life, I have to give you credit for being able to rationally have a discusion without needing to resort for personal insults like some people *cough Roaddog cough* Refreshing to see on the web. Good debate man.

I didn't insult you. I said that you're fascinated by pretty pictures and shiny things.

[SpectralThundr]

Oh I see, you're one of those guys that takes people out of context and takes the condescending route. Thanks for the answer to my question though. I can't even take you seriously at this point with your brand of logic, or lack their of. If 2k10 isn't good, and doesn't sell there won't be any waiting til 2k11.

We're a few years into this generation of systems, I think 2k is running out of time to actually produce a next gen feeling bug free or as bug free as possible and inovative hockey game, while staying relevant. How many years should be enough time Dogg? 2k6 and 2k7 were both last gen ports, 2k8's control scheme was a mess and it recieved little to none at all post release support, 2k9, VC's first stab at the series wasn't very good aside from a few bright spots. Oh they need til next year now? So by your logic we should just not even buy 2k10 and just wait for 2k11? Alright! But also by your logic no one should be alarmed by the lack of media because there's so much info out there about the game already. 2k's gonna shoot their wad 2 weeks before release and blow EA out of the water! Its gonna be great!

And you did insult me, with your attitude but you know its alright. I know your type, the diehard fanboy who will argue anything to defend a faceless publisher that owes him nothing even if its completely rediculous, then resorts to cheap attacks on a persons character because their debating skills are lacking. Shiny things and pretty pictures indeed.

Heres to hoping 2k10 is great, so that Roaddog can get his super awesome 2k11 that he is so excited for.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

If, and this is a big if, 2k offers substantial information next week and every week there after until the demo release they just may have played their cards perfectly.

I've seen everything ea (as most of you have) has to offer so far in regards to NHL10 and I don't think they have any big surprises left. I may end up eating my words but I think we now know everything NHL10 has to offer as far as game-play and improvements (BTW 2k has most of ea's "new" implementations already). While perusing other forums I see that people are already starting to pick apart every little detail thats been released.

Now, please don't misunderstand me, 10 is still going to be a whopper of a game, but I have nothing left to look forward to, so 2k now has my undivided attention. If they play their cards right they'll keep it until the demos come out.

[SpectralThundr]

If, and this is a big if, 2k offers substantial information next week and every week there after until the demo release they just may have played their cards perfectly.

I've seen everything ea (as most of you have) has to offer so far in regards to NHL10 and I don't think they have any big surprises left. I may end up eating my words but I think we now know everything NHL10 has to offer as far as game-play and improvements (BTW 2k has most of ea's "new" implementations already). While perusing other forums I see that people are already starting to pick apart every little detail thats been released.

Now, please don't misunderstand me, 10 is still going to be a whopper of a game, but I have nothing left to look forward to, so 2k now has my undivided attention. If they play their cards right they'll keep it until the demos come out.

Brother I hope that ends up being the case. I honestly do, I just question it being a viable technique to market the game with the momentum EA has going in this year. I feel 2k will be hard pressed to get all the franchise features back into the game in a one year turn around when there was so much work to be done with the meat and potatoes meaning gameplay.

I also agree about feature sets, 2k had manual board pinning for a long time (with the exception of 2k9), going back to the last gen versions, its never been quite as fleshed out though as how it looks to be implimented in 10. What I mean by this, in past 2k games you could basically pin someone to the boards but there was never any jostling of position, and generally the only way out of it was to hope a cpu teammate came to help or risk elbowing the guy in the face and getting a penalty. It was there and it added a sim element to the game for sure. It just wasn't implimented all that well imo, or really improved upon much through the years if at all. Same thing with things like the trading block, and being able to trade during the draft (don't think that was ever in a 2k game) 2k8's trading block was one of the franchise freeze causing elements of that years game. Made it somewhat a gamble to even use it.
So you're right that some of these features have already been in 2k's game, it just seems to me they never functioned quite as well as we look to have them working in NHL10.

When you really look at the meat and potatoes of Be a GM mode it to me just seems far more fleshed out and with more thought put into it than what 2k has done in the past. I'm sure people may feel differently and thats cool, to each their own. But I'd love to see 2k do something similar to their franchise mode to make it a deeper more fulfilling experience. Knowing that CPU teams will change their tactics during a season based on performance, a playoff contender team may turn into a playoff bubble team based on performance which in turn may give the user more options on how he can approach making a deal with a particular team over the course of a season. The idea that CPU teams from a trade logic perspective won't trade star players with each other all year. (another long time issue with 2k) Knowing that teams that are rebuilding won't just trade away young talent because the user offers a star player and a 1 round pick. Things like that to me just seem a whole lot more fleshed out and not something that 2k has ever really offered.

I think basically what I'm getting at is to me EA seems to be trying a whole lot harder this gen to genuinely improve every year. While I'm still waiting for 2k to truly come out with a next gen hockey game. If/when it happens I'll be on board day 1 because at the end of the day I love the sport passionately and have no quams over who delivers. I still feel the lack of media for 2k10 this close to release may do more harm than good in the long run though, even if they do have some plan as to why the're marketing it the way they are.

[macpuck]

Just a note on board pinning as it applies to the jostle/battle along the boards feature that is supposedly going to be a big improvement in EA's game. Even though you could pin a player in 2K's game, the NHL all but outlawed that technique two or three years ago. Board pinning for more than an instant actually fell under the interference and/or holding ruled in the post-lockout NHL rule changes and so the kind of board pinning in 2K's game wasn't a very realistic or well developed feature. In addition, the ratings (strength, balance, etc.) never seemed to be reflected in the ability of a player to work effectively along the boards. I feel very strongly that player ratings need to be more obvious in all areas of performance of players in both EA and 2K games.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

I also agree about feature sets, 2k had manual board pinning for a long time (with the exception of 2k9), going back to the last gen versions, its never been quite as fleshed out though as how it looks to be implimented in 10. What I mean by this, in past 2k games you could basically pin someone to the boards but there was never any jostling of position, and generally the only way out of it was to hope a cpu teammate came to help or risk elbowing the guy in the face and getting a penalty. It was there and it added a sim element to the game for sure. It just wasn't implimented all that well imo, or really improved upon much through the years if at all.

I'm know that in 2k9 you can kick the puck out (on the 360 it's the x button). I have to go back and look at my 2k8 and 7 to see if that was also the case.

But you are correct about the whole elbowing thing, that occurred way too often.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

When you really look at the meat and potatoes of Be a GM mode it to me just seems far more fleshed out and with more thought put into it than what 2k has done in the past. I'm sure people may feel differently and thats cool, to each their own. But I'd love to see 2k do something similar to their franchise mode to make it a deeper more fulfilling experience. Knowing that CPU teams will change their tactics during a season based on performance, a playoff contender team may turn into a playoff bubble team based on performance which in turn may give the user more options on how he can approach making a deal with a particular team over the course of a season. The idea that CPU teams from a trade logic perspective won't trade star players with each other all year. (another long time issue with 2k) Knowing that teams that are rebuilding won't just trade away young talent because the user offers a star player and a 1 round pick. Things like that to me just seem a whole lot more fleshed out and not something that 2k has ever really offered..

I totally agree with your assessment here. Franchise mode has always been one of 2k's strong suits (except for 2k9) and it looks as though ea may finally be catching up. EA is forcing 2k to step up. But would EA be where it is without earlier versions of 2k hockey forcing them to step up? This is what makes competition so crucial.

As hockey fans we should all hope for at least two profitable hockey video games that continue to prod and push each other.

[Savoie06]

Definately. What makes it so great is both 2K and EA offer something that makes their game unique. They both have different reasons for being great in their own ways. As Bruins said, If not for one the other, most likely wouldn't be as good as it is. 2K was the clearly the best hockey game really up through 2K8, though 08 was the closest second EA had ever been. However, it was nice to take that break from the more realistic side of things and pop in EA for some up and down arcade hockey. I've played the heck out of NHL09 until the last two weeks, when I bought 2K9. Well, the break from the "clean" gameplay of EA's hockey has been great. Neither game is perfect or even "sim" really, but both do offer their fair share of fun. Isn't that all that matters? We should definately appreciate and be thankful for having two hockey games to choose from.

[Oli Wood]

Brother I hope that ends up being the case. I honestly do, I just question it being a viable technique to market the game with the momentum EA has going in this year. I feel 2k will be hard pressed to get all the franchise features back into the game in a one year turn around when there was so much work to be done with the meat and potatoes meaning gameplay.

I also agree about feature sets, 2k had manual board pinning for a long time (with the exception of 2k9), going back to the last gen versions, its never been quite as fleshed out though as how it looks to be implimented in 10. What I mean by this, in past 2k games you could basically pin someone to the boards but there was never any jostling of position, and generally the only way out of it was to hope a cpu teammate came to help or risk elbowing the guy in the face and getting a penalty. It was there and it added a sim element to the game for sure. It just wasn't implimented all that well imo, or really improved upon much through the years if at all. Same thing with things like the trading block, and being able to trade during the draft (don't think that was ever in a 2k game) 2k8's trading block was one of the franchise freeze causing elements of that years game. Made it somewhat a gamble to even use it.
So you're right that some of these features have already been in 2k's game, it just seems to me they never functioned quite as well as we look to have them working in NHL10.

When you really look at the meat and potatoes of Be a GM mode it to me just seems far more fleshed out and with more thought put into it than what 2k has done in the past. I'm sure people may feel differently and thats cool, to each their own. But I'd love to see 2k do something similar to their franchise mode to make it a deeper more fulfilling experience. Knowing that CPU teams will change their tactics during a season based on performance, a playoff contender team may turn into a playoff bubble team based on performance which in turn may give the user more options on how he can approach making a deal with a particular team over the course of a season. The idea that CPU teams from a trade logic perspective won't trade star players with each other all year. (another long time issue with 2k) Knowing that teams that are rebuilding won't just trade away young talent because the user offers a star player and a 1 round pick. Things like that to me just seem a whole lot more fleshed out and not something that 2k has ever really offered.

I think basically what I'm getting at is to me EA seems to be trying a whole lot harder this gen to genuinely improve every year. While I'm still waiting for 2k to truly come out with a next gen hockey game. If/when it happens I'll be on board day 1 because at the end of the day I love the sport passionately and have no quams over who delivers. I still feel the lack of media for 2k10 this close to release may do more harm than good in the long run though, even if they do have some plan as to why the're marketing it the way they are.

Amen.

I think some people in here just don't want to see the truth.

[RoadDoggFL]

Oh I see, you're one of those guys that takes people out of context and takes the condescending route. Thanks for the answer to my question though. I can't even take you seriously at this point with your brand of logic, or lack their of. If 2k10 isn't good, and doesn't sell there won't be any waiting til 2k11.

Nothing was taken out of context. As a machine, as a sum of its physical parts, you don't like the Wii because it's incapable of generating pretty enough pictures full of shiny enough things. Software is irrelevant to a piece of hardware's quality, as the PS2 and 360 demonstrate. The potential for amazing Wii games is there, plain as day. But you're fixated on the fact that the graphics aren't so good. Any other rationalization is just nonsense.

We're a few years into this generation of systems, I think 2k is running out of time to actually produce a next gen feeling bug free or as bug free as possible and inovative hockey game, while staying relevant. How many years should be enough time Dogg? 2k6 and 2k7 were both last gen ports, 2k8's control scheme was a mess and it recieved little to none at all post release support, 2k9, VC's first stab at the series wasn't very good aside from a few bright spots. Oh they need til next year now? So by your logic we should just not even buy 2k10 and just wait for 2k11? Alright! But also by your logic no one should be alarmed by the lack of media because there's so much info out there about the game already. 2k's gonna shoot their wad 2 weeks before release and blow EA out of the water! Its gonna be great!

Nope. 2K is running out of time, which is why the multiplied effect of a strong marketing effort after a solid entry is so essential to reestablishing the brand. Right now, the hype would be built on the memory of 2K9. Every forum you go to is full of people dismissing 2K10 at the mere mention of "2K" because it'll be the same as 2K9. Geez, 2K, why even bother? But hype for 2K11? When 2K10 is already a solid title? Who would listen to anybody who bothered to bring up 2K9? Marketing resources would be better invested when the previous entry in the series isn't horrible. Common sense.

And you did insult me, with your attitude but you know its alright. I know your type, the diehard fanboy who will argue anything to defend a faceless publisher that owes him nothing even if its completely rediculous, then resorts to cheap attacks on a persons character because their debating skills are lacking. Shiny things and pretty pictures indeed.

You insulted yourself. I'm only treating you how you portrayed yourself. I can't respect anybody who bashes the Wii based on hardware specs. It's more powerful than any console before this generation, and all of those consoles had great games. So what is it about the Wii's hardware that makes you think it can't have great games? Oh yeah, you're too distracted by the pretty pictures and shiny things in 360 and PS3 games. I know 2K owes me nothing, but I just disagree with all the doomsayers around here who make proclamations like "if 2K doesn't release any info in the next two weeks, the brand is ruined and won't last beyond 2K11." (Not an actual quote, btw) If that makes me a fanboy then whatever, your opinion is only one and I believe you're wrong so it cancels out.

Heres to hoping 2k10 is great, so that Roaddog can get his super awesome 2k11 that he is so excited for.

I'm always excited for next year. Can't get enough of thinking about what's to come in future games

[SpectralThundr]

I gave last gen graphics as just one reason I wasn't interested in the Wii. I'm 32, games like Mario and Zelda, and the slew of mini game titles most of which are pretty much shovelware that the Wii offers just don't interest me. Nor does its motion controls like I've already said. But you're right, I'm just all about just shiny pretty graphics. Yep! If thats not taking someone out of context I don't know what is.

I don't think you understand how marketing works, it really seems like you're suggesting they shouldn't market 2k10 at all and just pray the game sells, while EA gets everyone hyped up with tons of media. Generally thats a pretty much guarenteed fail. Prove that 2k10 is a solid title, get the info out there with screen shots of the better player models, get official info out there about the improved AI, the return of long standing franchise features, etc. That way you sell enough copies to be able to produce a 2k11 and beyond. Not saying or showing anything just fuels the consensus that you don't have anything to really show that stacks up to EA's game. Competition is a good thing, had 2k not had the better game last gen, EA wouldn't have put the effort they have into making their series better. I would hope that the success of NHL08 and 09 would push 2k to make the same effort.

Seems like common sense to most people doncha think? Oh but hey people will just think its like 2k9, reality check Dogg, the LACK of marketing is whats going to make people think that.

[RoadDoggFL]

I gave last gen graphics as just one reason I wasn't interested in the Wii. I'm 32, games like Mario and Zelda, and the slew of mini game titles most of which are pretty much shovelware that the Wii offers just don't interest me. Nor does its motion controls like I've already said. But you're right, I'm just all about just shiny pretty graphics. Yep! If thats not taking someone out of context I don't know what is.

The trusty old "I'm too mature for the Wii" argument. Thanks for that.

I don't think you understand how marketing works, it really seems like you're suggesting they shouldn't market 2k10 at all and just pray the game sells, while EA gets everyone hyped up with tons of media. Generally thats a pretty much guarenteed fail. Prove that 2k10 is a solid title, get the info out there with screen shots of the better player models, get official info out there about the improved AI, the return of long standing franchise features, etc. That way you sell enough copies to be able to produce a 2k11 and beyond. Not saying or showing anything just fuels the consensus that you don't have anything to really show that stacks up to EA's game. Competition is a good thing, had 2k not had the better game last gen, EA wouldn't have put the effort they have into making their series better. I would hope that the success of NHL08 and 09 would push 2k to make the same effort.

I don't think you understand my expectations for 2K10. It takes a minute to change someone's mind. Nobody who plans out a $60 purchase will be married to the idea of buying NHL 10 if some exciting information of 2K10 becomes available two weeks before release. And what if 2K10's demo is amazing? That could easily be a part of the plan. I'm not saying 2K shouldn't market 2K10, I'm saying that people like you who are freaking out about the limited info at this point aren't realizing that there could be legitimate reasons for it right now.

Seems like common sense to most people doncha think? Oh but hey people will just think its like 2k9, reality check Dogg, the LACK of marketing is whats going to make people think that.

Yes, until there is marketing. You were doing so well before, I'd hate to see you start arguing a straw man on me.

[SpectralThundr]

The trusty old "I'm too mature for the Wii" argument. Thanks for that.

The trusty truth the damn thing doesn't interest me.

I don't think you understand my expectations for 2K10. It takes a minute to change someone's mind. Nobody who plans out a $60 purchase will be married to the idea of buying NHL 10 if some exciting information of 2K10 becomes available two weeks before release. And what if 2K10's demo is amazing? That could easily be a part of the plan. I'm not saying 2K shouldn't market 2K10, I'm saying that people like you who are freaking out about the limited info at this point aren't realizing that there could be legitimate reasons for it right now.


Yes, until there is marketing. You were doing so well before, I'd hate to see you start arguing a straw man on me.



The trusty truth the damn thing doesn't interest me.

Who's freaking out? I think its a bad marketing plan, most others agree while a few (few being pretty much you) fanboys with blinders on think 2k knows what their doing. Thats really all it is. At rate that line of reasoning seems about as likely as world peace but hey you hope on little trooper!

Eh I read Cup's tidbits too, I figured I'd at least give 2k something to go on. Real or not.

[sleepytercel]

If you've been around the 2K train as long as myself and many others, you'd know that their way of marketing has typically been this way. It's a wait for competition and then a bombard before release approach. This strategy has done wonders for the NBA2K franchise, but it can be very annoying to us consumers.

[sleepytercel]

The trusty truth the damn thing doesn't interest me.



Then why are you here? Obviously there is some sort of interest. I'm not trying to jump in the argument, but their marketing strategy has typically been this way. The good news is that we'll all have the information we need before the games release. I think 2K10 will be an interesting release. People don't understand why I am excited for this game, but Visual Concepts has created two of the best sports franchises (NFL 2K and NBA 2K) and with an entire development cycle under their belt, it will be interesting to see what they do with a new franchise for them.

[navarz12]

We will finally get news this week. Patience.

[SpectralThundr]

Then why are you here? Obviously there is some sort of interest. I'm not trying to jump in the argument, but their marketing strategy has typically been this way. The good news is that we'll all have the information we need before the games release. I think 2K10 will be an interesting release. People don't understand why I am excited for this game, but Visual Concepts has created two of the best sports franchises (NFL 2K and NBA 2K) and with an entire development cycle under their belt, it will be interesting to see what they do with a new franchise for them.

I was refering to the Wii with that comment.

[sleepytercel]

I was refering to the Wii with that comment.

Sorry about that...yeah...missed that part. I'm not interested in the Wii side. Not because of the system itself, but because there seems to be no heart from third party developers when making games for the system...Take Two included.

[VeNOM2099]

Look, bottom line: more important than WHEN, is WHAT information they're going to release. That's what's got me most worried. Marketing has two very important parts: timing (when the info is released) and knowing who your demographic is. The latter part is usually the most crucial. EA is targeting the hockey fan first and foremost. Is 2K going to follow suite? If they do, maybe they can take away some of EA's customers. If they try and go the Wii route and cater to non-gamers, then things don't look as promissing. Mainly because full on videogames don't interest the non-gamer.

Still, that will have no bearing on the game itself on the 360 or PS3. Someone said they'd take anything WWTC says with a grain of salt. Funny, I'd think quite the opposite actually. I'd pay attention to any little tid-bit that comes from him if I were you... And really, we've received quite a few little tid-bits here and there, from more than just Anthony. There are even those who are privy to inside info (if you know who to ask).

For instance, I asked Ronnie about the Ovie "render" and I got confirmation that it's an actual in-game 3D model. Does that whet your appetite? I know it does for me...

So there is information, just not the tons of it EA has released so far. Hopefully, starting this week, they can begin catching up, even if it's a little.

[RoadDoggFL]

The trusty truth the damn thing doesn't interest me.

And your reasons are flawed. Blame is placed on Nintendo when they're just making the most profitable, successful platform possible. Any other hate can be directed towards publishers.

Who's freaking out? I think its a bad marketing plan, most others agree while a few (few being pretty much you) fanboys with blinders on think 2k knows what their doing. Thats really all it is. At rate that line of reasoning seems about as likely as world peace but hey you hope on little trooper!

Plenty of people. Believe it or not, these forums existed before you signed up for them, and you're parroting a lot of the same lines other posters have (and still do). When you align yourself with Chicken Little, don't be surprised when that's what someone calls you.

Eh I read Cup's tidbits too, I figured I'd at least give 2k something to go on. Real or not.

Then you know there's more info than just a single screen. Good, that's settled.

[tboner]

Anyone who has any history and knowledge of 2K and their marketing, should already know that they typically release real news about 3 weeks before game release. Their strategy is one that does work, as it has worked with NBA2K. There's really no more news on the NBA game than there is of NHL. My interpretation of the marketing logic, is that, the last thing people will see and hear, will be about 2K's game. It's frustrating because we have to wait, but this marketing worked wonders for the NBA franchise. Everyone was saying how they were getting Live until about 2 to 3 weeks of both games release because 2K just flooded information into people's brains and the last thought in their head was 2K's game, basically since EA had nothing more to promote their game. Basically, you'll have equal info on both games before either get released.

I hate to break it to you but this marketing campaign hasn't "worked wonders" for the NBA franchise, the fact that the NBA franchise has released consistently good games combined with the fact that the NBA Live franchise has been god-awful is the reason for NBA 2k's success.

[sleepytercel]

I hate to break it to you but this marketing campaign hasn't "worked wonders" for the NBA franchise, the fact that the NBA franchise has released consistently good games combined with the fact that the NBA Live franchise has been god-awful is the reason for NBA 2k's success.

That is part of it, but marketing has its share too. NBA Live 09 was going to be the best ever last year. EA marketed it to the fullest and everyone was "going" to switch over. This year is going through the same response because Live 10 is, again, going to be the best ever. Once again, a majority of folks are saying that they are making the switch. Last year, 2K waited (like always) to release their information, and before that information was released, people were saying that 2K had nothing to show and that it would just be a rehashed 2K8. 2K released their info about three weeks before the game came out, and then it became, "NBA Live who?". So, I hate to break it to you as well, but their marketing system does make an impact as well.

[SpectralThundr]

And your reasons are flawed. Blame is placed on Nintendo when they're just making the most profitable, successful platform possible. Any other hate can be directed towards publishers.



Plenty of people. Believe it or not, these forums existed before you signed up for them, and you're parroting a lot of the same lines other posters have (and still do). When you align yourself with Chicken Little, don't be surprised when that's what someone calls you.



Then you know there's more info than just a single screen. Good, that's settled.

So I'm wrong for not being interested in the Wii?! Sorry Dogg didn't know I needed your permission to dislike something. God forbid someone has a personal preference different than your own. Also thanks for reiterating the same thing I've been saying the whole discussion. You're the minority that seems to think a lack of marketing is a good move.

[RoadDoggFL]

So I'm wrong for not being interested in the Wii?! Sorry Dogg didn't know I needed your permission to dislike something. God forbid someone has a personal preference different than your own. Also thanks for reiterating the same thing I've been saying the whole discussion. You're the minority that seems to think a lack of marketing is a good move.

You can dislike the Wii all you want, nothing wrong about that. But if your reasons are flawed then yes, you're wrong.

Also, I didn't say a lack of marketing is good, I said it could be understandable.

[SpectralThundr]

You can dislike the Wii all you want, nothing wrong about that. But if your reasons are flawed then yes, you're wrong.

Also, I didn't say a lack of marketing is good, I said it could be understandable.

lol oh please lord RoadDogg, let all us lil minions know how "wrong" we are for having a difference in opinion. I'm wrong for having no interest in motion controls, and wrong for not wanting to play nintendo titles, and wrong for not being into the multitude of party like games the wii offers. I mean I'm sure the PunchOut remake is fun, I just have no interest in playing it, so therefor I'm wrong to not like the Wii. You're a tool dude seriously.

[RoadDoggFL]

lol oh please lord RoadDogg, let all us lil minions know how "wrong" we are for having a difference in opinion. I'm wrong for having no interest in motion controls, and wrong for not wanting to play nintendo titles, and wrong for not being into the multitude of party like games the wii offers. I mean I'm sure the PunchOut remake is fun, I just have no interest in playing it, so therefor I'm wrong to not like the Wii. You're a tool dude seriously.

K. But you sure are singing a different tune than you came in here with. Good for you for not liking the Wii. You don't even know why you don't like it. As a piece of hardware, no it's not that impressive. But it's a financially viable platform from day one, something no other non-Nintendo home console released in the last decade and a half can claim. And it's clearly capable of the most hardcore of games, because they existed in the past, unless you think it's weaker than the last-gen consoles. That actually wouldn't surprise me.

Your problem is that you seem to think that games define a console's hardware. You're blind to potential and possibilities. Take hockey games. One could have said that dual analog sticks were gimmicky and served no purpose for them. Ok, the left analog stick was ok for skating, but who needs the right one? It's a waste of space and takes real estate away from the far more useful face buttons. Until EA comes along and maps the hockey stick to the right stick. Suddenly, thousands of gamers fall in love. It makes perfect sense for them, such innovation.

So is the decade-old dual analog stick design not innovative until NHL 07 takes advantage of it? Did a switch go off or a box get checked that changed the intent behind the design of the new layout?

No, it's an input method that had yet to be explored, and until it has you can't know for sure if it's something that would interest you. To me, the Wii presents some very interesting territory for FPSs. Maybe somebody needs to release a redesigned version that places more commands in accessible locations and makes the controller more ergonomical, but the concept is brilliant and has a lot of untapped potential. If it didn't, would Sony and MS be scrambling to catch up? I see Nintendo as a leader in video game innovation. More often than not it's Nintendo actually coming up with new ideas, particularly in the realm of input devices. You're allowed to hate them all you want, but don't get all butt hurt when somebody points out how foolish your reasons are.

/rant. And no, I don't care if you read it all.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

I gave last gen graphics as just one reason I wasn't interested in the Wii. I'm 32, games like Mario and Zelda, and the slew of mini game titles most of which are pretty much shovelware that the Wii offers just don't interest me.

I mean I'm sure the PunchOut remake is fun, I just have no interest in playing it, so therefor I'm wrong to not like the Wii.

I can't remain silent any longer! Your unholy remarks regarding the Holy Trinity of the video game industry shall not go unchallenged!

His Holiness, Shigeru Miyamoto, just had you excommunicated from video game playing for all time for those heretic remarks. I thought playing Mario, Zelda and Punch Out were prerequisites to play any other video game? If you can't save Peach and Zelda then ko Mr. Dream how are we supposed to take you seriously? How do you sleep with yourself!? :lol:

[SpectralThundr]

Thats all fine and well, when they start making hardcore titles on the system that don't suck and utilize the Wiimote in innovative ways that would actually make me perfer it over a standard controler give me a ring. Until then do me a favor and get off your pretentious high horse and claiming bs like "you don't even know why you don't like it wah wah wah" I gave a list of reasons it doesn't interest me currently. Sorry that list wasn't good enough for you. Rant all you want there bucko, in the end you still just end up coming off as a pretentious jerk who can't handle that people have different opinions that don't match your own.

[SpectralThundr]

I can't remain silent any longer! Your unholy remarks regarding the Holy Trinity of the video game industry shall not go unchallenged!

His Holiness, Shigeru Miyamoto, just had you excommunicated from video game playing for all time for those heretic remarks. I thought playing Mario, Zelda and Punch Out were prerequisites to play any other video game? If you can't save Peach and Zelda then ko Mr. Dream how are we supposed to take you seriously? How do you sleep with yourself!? :lol:

:lol: hey I loved those games back in the day, I just really don't have much interest playing them again. Miyamotosan most definately deserves all the credit in the world for making such beloved characters that have stood the test of time and some of the all time classic titles to boot. Alas I have no little Mac left in me though

[Bruins fan 4 life]

:lol: hey I loved those games back in the day, I just really don't have much interest playing them again. Miyamotosan most definately deserves all the credit in the world for making such beloved characters that have stood the test of time and some of the all time classic titles to boot. Alas I have no little Mac left in me though

I was just trying to add a little levity.

I'm a little older than you I think so I thought you get a kick out of my comments. I was in high school when the first versions of those games came out and lost countless hours playing them.

[SpectralThundr]

I was just trying to add a little levity.

I'm a little older than you I think so I thought you get a kick out of my comments. I was in high school when the first versions of those games came out and lost countless hours playing them.

I definately got a chuckle out of it. Loved me some NES goodness back in the day, blowing dust out of the carts to make em work while hoping the spring in the system itself would hold long enough to get one more piece of the triforce or one last game in of Blades of Steel. Good times good times.

[RoadDoggFL]

Thats all fine and well, when they start making hardcore titles on the system that don't suck and utilize the Wiimote in innovative ways that would actually make me perfer it over a standard controler give me a ring. Until then do me a favor and get off your pretentious high horse and claiming bs like "you don't even know why you don't like it wah wah wah" I gave a list of reasons it doesn't interest me currently. Sorry that list wasn't good enough for you. Rant all you want there bucko, in the end you still just end up coming off as a pretentious jerk who can't handle that people have different opinions that don't match your own.

A handful games are already there. Boom Blox, The Conduit, Tiger Woods 10. You came in singing a much different tune and began grasping at straws when I pointed out how silly your "reasons" made you look. People who blame Nintendo for minigame collections as though they were all developed and published by Nintendo make me laugh. You're entitled to your opinion, but again, you can still be wrong for having it. Call me pretentious, call me bucko, whatever makes you feel most like an internet tough guy. Point is I saw through your BS reasons and you're no longer singing the "last gen graphics" or "I'm too mature" tunes because they're total crap.

[SpectralThundr]

I'm not sure where you get I'm blaming nintendo for 3rd party publishers putting out a ton of shovelware, I've pretty much said the whole time the system doesn't interest me while you've gone out of your way repetedly to esentially say "your opinion is wrong" The graphics esentially are last gen for the most part, and I really have no interest in playing supermario world with a jetpack or whatever the new twist is this time around. Its a matter of preference is all. You saw through my BS reasons alright mr tough guy. You get down with your bad self.

[Savoie06]

and you have no life, other than to talk crap about a video game you won't even play.

[navarz12]

2K is horrible, EA will blow it away in every category

When has EA ever been better in franchise? Awnser never and you can"t even prove me wrong. That already makes your statement false.
I play whatever is the best game not the name of the company that is on the box like you.