2K10=Sim / 10=Arcade ?

[Optimus Prime]

OK, I've always thought the 2K series is more of a sim, I am on another forum and people are trying to say EA is sim and more realistic because it has more features (as if that does it), I'm saying the sliders work better in 2K series... but they are all about features and insist EA is "far beyond" 2K.

So, my question is....

1) Does anyone know of any good articles pointing out why 2K is in fact SIM and EA is Arcade, I remember reading a great article before that was spot on, but I can't find it.

2) Or... tell me why you feel 2K8/9, etc... is more SIM and gives reasons for comparison.

Much thanks to anyone who can help out...

[Carilonaboy23]

I feel ea is more sim and is years above 2k

[Flexxer27]

I used to play EA 99 and I got hooked on video hockey.
Thinking back it was a lot of skate up the ice and shoot and "I" play hockey.
Left the gaming for years and came back in with NHL 2K7*
I'm HOOKED.
I'm in the game, I break over the blue line and CUT deep in the ice left left left...tick ...tick
make the pass to my center man cutting in DEEEEEEKK pick the top corner SCOOOREEESSSSS!

LOL HAHAHAAHAAAAAAA this is WOW!!

I tried the EA9 demo.............. it just didn't feel real PERIOD.:cool:

[Savoie06]

Prime, Honestly, anyone who says either game is sim straight out of the box, is clueless. Now if they are basing their opinions off this years games NHL10 and 2K10, they are also clueless, because nobody except a few community managers and the developers have played each game. That's just pure fanboyism there.

As far as 09 and 2K9 goes, with proper slider adjustments both played a better game than right out of the box. Where has the board play and innaccurate passing been with EA all these years though? Where have the seperate sliders been? What about decent puck physics, realistic faceoff system, ice friction of some sort? Yes EA added Stick Lift first and it's a nice addition, but for NHL09 was entirely unrealistic. It often led to loss of the puck and the player whos stick was lifted would stop skating for whatever reason. Yes they have Create A Play, which is nice.

Quite honestly, as far as AI goes, both suck. EA's Defensive AI is all too passive, basically allowing an easy skate from one end of the rink to the other. Then you can pass the puck around in the zone pretty much at will. Their positionally sound yes, but don't present much of a challenge unless the game is played on the Superstar level and then it's just unrealistic. EA's Offensive AI is better at working the puck around and dumping it in at the proper time, but predictable still.

2K has an over aggressive Defensive AI, that presents more of a challenge in ways, but due to that over aggressiveness of 2 players chasing the puck carrier all the time; it means a man is unaccounted for and if you can get it to him it's an open opportunity. They put more pressure on you though in the neutral and offensive zones so in that sense it's more realistic. The Offensive AI, can present a challenge if you find the right sliders, but like EA's is also somewhat predictable.

Goalies on both games are unrealistic. 2K8 had fantastic goalies, the best ever. 2K9 for whatever reason had poor goalies, that unless their sliders were close to cranked, played horrible. The issue then was a warping effect that took place. An issue that already existed with EA's . This results in some pretty unrealistic saves.

Graphics go to EA, but that doesn't make it more sim.

[Flexxer27]

Excellent post!

"Graphics go to EA, but that doesn't make it more sim. "

DIDO!

[reallyYathink]

from all the small reviews i have read so far says nhl 10 is more sim and 2k10 is close but more arcade then ea game

[stoney0ne]

you are not going to find any "mainstream" articles on it.. the people that write those are all bought off



i think the debate is basically a

taste great!

less filling!


situation... but i think on average you find the 2k fan boys more reasonable and knowledgeable of real hockey..


when ever im debating the simmness of the games with a EA person, and they automatically go to "the faces are better" "has more features" that usually speaks volumes to me



kia puts all kind of cheap options standard on their cars.... that doesn't make it a good car... its easier cheaper for KIA/ea to give you stupid cheap extras, and hope you ignore the fact that the car is hunk of junk at its heart

[Bruins fan 4 life]

Graphics go to EA, but that doesn't make it more sim.

Well said, Savoie.

2) Or... tell me why you feel 2K8/9, etc... is more SIM and gives reasons for comparison.


I enjoy playing both games and have played both a lot, but for different reasons. As far as sim-like hockey they both have their good and bad points, although 2k feels more sim-like to me. If you want to have an exeprience where you can handle the puck and do more individual type of things then 09 is the way to go. I would compare it to going to your local rink for a pick-up game or a stick and puck session. It feels real enough but there is something lacking compared to a real game.

What I mean is playing EA is enjoyable and somewhat realistic but each game feels the same. For example you find the same atmosphere in a mid-season Syracuse Crunch game as you would in a game 7 Stanley Cup Final game.

If you want to have a real NHL experience with real NHL atmosphere 2k9 is the way to go.

As far as 2k goes you don't have the same sim feeling of player control but the overall game atmosphere is miles ahead of EA. The more important the game the louder the crowd becomes, different on-ice intros for playoff teams, etc... Then you couple the atmosphere with some of the sim-like plays 2k offers (boardplay, batting pucks with your hands, scrums in front of the net for garbage goals, etc...) and I believe you have a much better overall NHL experience.

[flamesfan597]

I hope 2K really improves franchise. It constanty freezes. On 09, never once. I dont really like Dynasty personally. Owning both games is real nice.

[mini kangaroo]

i think this is a very tricky question. my opinion is nhl 2k series was sim up till 2k6, since then, ea has gotten way better, for those that hasn't used the skill stick, try it, dont just throw it away, stick with it, and trust me, it makes it more sim (the way you control the puck), now i am not a pro player, i only play rec in real life, and i love hockey, play it over anything.

and my opinion is that nhl 09 is way better than nhl 2k9 in terms of sim, now for depth of mode, if you take out be a pro in nhl 09, 2k9 has better season/dynasty. this year, nhl 10 will have a new mode call be a gm, which is going to increase my interest to not looking into nhl 2k10. Now with that said, 2k10 can still get my vote with their trailer or gameplay video/demo. it is unfair to say right now which will be better in september, but if both nhl 10 and 2k10 has improved from last year, 2k10 will still be too far off to nhl 10. honestly, 2k10 needs to redo the whole thing.

on nba though, nba 2k series has killed live (in terms of sim)

bottomline is, it depends how you play as well, i play a sim game, and it seems to fit me better with nhl 09, and nba 2k9

at the end, it's your call, and i think only the demo can prove which one is better. the best way though, is to rent it, as sometimes the final build can be better than the demo as well (or worse?)

[reallyYathink]

Agree with you on that

[flamesfan597]

I found 2K9 to have a fine sim. I live the extra game modes. Keep them. EA's shootout is so bad. It is almost impossible to score. 2K beats them dead there. I like the modified dekes. Nice!

[Optimus Prime]

Here's one... if it can be answered at this point:

1) What are the main features NHL 10 has that NHL 2K10 doesn't have (or vise versa) ?
2) What's so much better between the 2 games?

[Savoie06]

Here's one... if it can be answered at this point:

1) What are the main features NHL 10 has that NHL 2K10 doesn't have (or vise versa) ?
2) What's so much better between the 2 games?

OK So Far That I Know Of Here Is What EA Has 2K Doesn't:
1.EASHL....Though it appears 2K is offering something similar, but with full created teams, not just a player.
2. Be A Pro....We could very well see the 2K version for 2K11
3.Create A Play...I wish 2K would add this
4.Precision Passing....Passing into open space,very cool. 2K needs this as well.

For 2K:
1. More Sliders and A Wider Variety Of
2. Online Franchise

That's all I can think of currently. 2K will have a deeper Create a Player and Create A team most likely as well. Overall though EA has some key features that 2K should add. With EA adding board play and innaccurate passes this year, they have added two of the major things 2K had over them for so long. I honestly think both will be great and arcadish out of the box, but with some tweaks, will play great hockey.

[Xboxing2006]

OK So Far That I Know Of Here Is What EA Has 2K Doesn't:
1.EASHL....Though it appears 2K is offering something similar, but with full created teams, not just a player.
2. Be A Pro....We could very well see the 2K version for 2K11
3.Create A Play...I wish 2K would add this
4.Precision Passing....Passing into open space,very cool. 2K needs this as well.

For 2K:
1. More Sliders and A Wider Variety Of
2. Online Franchise

That's all I can think of currently. 2K will have a deeper Create a Player and Create A team most likely as well. Overall though EA has some key features that 2K should add. With EA adding board play and innaccurate passes this year, they have added two of the major things 2K had over them for so long. I honestly think both will be great and arcadish out of the box, but with some tweaks, will play great hockey.


Precision Passing remindes me of what Visual Concepts does with their basketball games.

[Savoie06]

I forgot to add that 2K has the 2K Share feature so we can share rosters and sliders.

[Bruins fan 4 life]

I forgot to add that 2K has the 2K Share feature so we can share rosters and sliders.

Yeah, those are crucial to a sim-like game. A geek like me thrives on up-to-date rosters and player ratings.

Speaking of player ratings is NHL 2k10 going to implement player dna and allow us to share that as well, ala MLB 2k9?

[stoney0ne]

the up loadable draft class thing is what has me excited



we will defiantly be waiting for some industrious to crank out some quality draft classes.. Id love to have a official "hfboard.com" draft class file save

[Unhittable]

OK So Far That I Know Of Here Is What EA Has 2K Doesn't:
1.EASHL....Though it appears 2K is offering something similar, but with full created teams, not just a player.
2. Be A Pro....We could very well see the 2K version for 2K11
3.Create A Play...I wish 2K would add this
4.Precision Passing....Passing into open space,very cool. 2K needs this as well.

For 2K:
1. More Sliders and A Wider Variety Of
2. Online Franchise

That's all I can think of currently. 2K will have a deeper Create a Player and Create A team most likely as well. Overall though EA has some key features that 2K should add. With EA adding board play and innaccurate passes this year, they have added two of the major things 2K had over them for so long. I honestly think both will be great and arcadish out of the box, but with some tweaks, will play great hockey.

NHL 10 has sliders now...they look to be very indepth, but I guess we wait till it comes out if they actually change anything.

[Savoie06]

NHL 10 has sliders now...they look to be very indepth, but I guess we wait till it comes out if they actually change anything.Yeah, EA did add some sliders this year which is nice, along with finally having seperate hum/cpu sliders. In all honesty, I'm more worried about 2K's working properly. Having as many as they do, doesn't do too much good when some are ineffective and others work backwards or whatever. In any case sliders are the best thing for sports gamers in my opinion.

[WHALERS1988]

EA used to have a good sim in the earlier days 1990's!!!! After programmers left switch over to different companies, 2k arrived. 2K5 and 2K8 Where the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ever for everything....

[Irish91612]

Precision Passing remindes me of what Visual Concepts does with their basketball games.

Umm, I've been able to pass into open space on 2K10. Not sure why folks are suggesting this is in some way a new feature that EA has brought to the market. I can lead my forwards up the ice, and pass into the corners, and even bank passes off the walls.

More SIM is a matter of opinion, so it will never be answer definitively, especially with the countless weak game reviews that folks are commenting on. I think SIM is a matter of opinion largely due to the fact that people's knowledge of hockey varies significantly. I chuckle when a person who has never played/seen the game of hockey comments on what SIM. Then there's the other side who will say a game is not SIM because the tape on the player is wrong, or the they're using the wrong brand of helmet. That variance can be maddening at times.

I happen to think the 2K series provides me a better SIM experience, especially with AI since I don't play vs contests. I cite serveral key reasons for this.

Both AI's are faulted, but 2K's is much more dynamic IMO. The defensive styles vary from game to game, and even change while in game. The AI will be agressive, or the will collapse defensively. The AI will also check you. In NHL08/09, I've never seen the AI run one my guys in the corner. I've never seen fights break out because you destroyed the AI with great hit. In EA, I've never seen intensity increase with the natural flo of the game. Now- in NHL10- EA put intensity elements into the game, but did not program these elements into the AI. The fights still don't happen at the right time of the game, the AI still does not run your players with hits, and the AI still does not respond to a physical game style as you would see in the NHL. I've never once played an EA hockey game and said to myself, "man things are getting chippy on the ice!" It's just not there like it is in 2K.

People that say EA is more SIM are focusing on two key factors:
1. Graphics
2. Skill stick

EA makes a gorgeous looking hockey game. Stylistically, it's different than 2k. EA's graphical style trends toward more of a photo realistic representation of the game. At times, they go overboard with the shiney reflections, but I tip my hat to their art crew. For many people, the graphics alone sell them on the game.

The skill stick also is one of the biggest things that sell people on the game. What it does is empowers people to feel like they are an NHL superstar. You have incredibly responsive control of the puck on your stick- and let's be honest, that's what people want. My gripe with this is that the stick is too good. You have too much control that the game starts to move away from SIM and moves toward arcade. Sure, they put in sliders in NHL10 to make things more realistic, but they aren't. When I play 2K10 and try to stick handle with my enforcer, he loses the puck - as he should in most cases. In EA's game, the puck is still velcroed to your stick blade so that you can dangle, dipsy doodle and do all of the other things that are bad for the sport.

What's important is the perception this creates with the average gamer. The freedom of that stick makes people feel like they can do anything with the puck, and it sucks you in. The SIM fans shake their head because there just isn't that much dangling in the NHL. If you follow your team and watch every game, you may see dangle players 3, 4 times a month. Log into EASHL and you'll see dangle about 40 times a game. It's too easy to do.

The last point I want to mention is how the games are marketed. It's very clear to me (regardless of the BE-A-GM introduced in NHL10) that EA has built their game for VS play. They don't allow you to play against their AI online as you can in 2K, and the pride themselves on EASHL - which is human vs human matchups. As a result of this, EA just doesn't invest the time an energy necessary to refine their AI so that human vs computer gaming is more realistic and fun. I've found it nearly impossible to play a full season in the NHL franchise because of how monotonous it becomes. Each game feels the same to me. Over the course of 82 to games, I lose interest. I think the dynamics of the AI in 2K really makes the replayability of the game for me, and in the long term I get more value out of the product.

[JubeiDOK_Xbox360]

from all the small reviews i have read so far says nhl 10 is more sim and 2k10 is close but more arcade then ea game

That's because far too many people think that skating into the corner and throwing a pass cross crease for a one timer is SIM.

[RatsoRizzo]

IRISH91612... EXCELLENT POST.

I have found:
EA and 2K are both fun
Play the right people online in EA or 2K and you have fun
Play the wrong people online in EA or 2k and it isn't much fun
both games offer innovation... really, Sim vs. Arcade has really, at least for me, turned into more of a "which company has added the most innovation for my $$$ this year"

I still want to know why Gretzky Hockey 2006 by 989 sports was able to include wave off of icing but no game has implemented it since?????

[Flexxer27]

IRISH91612... EXCELLENT POST.

I have found:
EA and 2K are both fun
Play the right people online in EA or 2K and you have fun
Play the wrong people online in EA or 2k and it isn't much fun
both games offer innovation... really, Sim vs. Arcade has really, at least for me, turned into more of a "which company has added the most innovation for my $$$ this year"

I still want to know why Gretzky Hockey 2006 by 989 sports was able to include wave off of icing but no game has implemented it since?????

I have seen a lot of time's icing being called but then there's no icing?
So I've begun to wonder.......is it being called off or is there a glitch???

[Keys198012]

This year is the most arcade year ever for 2k.

It has been handed over to the casual crowd. No on the fly coaching. No real deke moves (you don't control your dekes or superstar goals, you hit a button and get a random canned annimation). So much control has been taken away. I feel like I'm playing NHL94. Pass, Wrister, Slapper and one timers. That's it no real control no learning curve just a basic ARCADE hockey game.