Lebron screwed by the League

[airlebron23]

No way Lebron should be left off the All Star Game, he's easily had as good a season as Vince Carter, Ron Artest, and Jamal Magloire. I'd even take Lebron over Michael Redd. 21 points, 6 assists, 1.5 steals, and 6 rebounds, not to mention carrying your team to more wins at the All Star break then they had last year without you, ought to do it in the East. No offense, but who cares watching some of these fellas, when we could see the 18 yr old high school wonderkid. What a joke. Before the selections were announced, everybody and there dog, even Barkley, and Kenny Smith, said Lebron belonged on the team. I'll take their word for it.

[og15]

Micheal Redd deserves it more than Lebron, the coaches don't pick on hype, they pick on who deserves it. Redd has carried Milwaukee to a winning record, and the 4th spot in the East. Yes 4th they are ahead of New Orleans now and you say beating you last years record deserves it more than winning OKAYY??????

Also Lebron is a G not a F or a C so what do Artest and Magloire have to do with it. They aren't going to pick 7 reserve guards. I'd understand a complain about Starbury not making it but Lebron meh, he's still a rook and a very young one, he has many many years to make it. Actually he could have made it over Artest as a throw-in player.......

Look at Denver, even though Melo was just part of their progress and not the only reason they are winning, we could argue that Melo should make it too.

Lebron also isn't the only player on the Cavs, Boozer sure needs props for what he's been doing.

[K Bomber]

Just to play Devil's Advocate for a second here, but I think LeBron deserves to be in the ASG. If you look at his numbers, only T-Mac and Paul Pierce are comparable in the range of what they bring to the table

Personally, I think he's having a better year than Redd already and will likely surpass him even further by year's end.......

[og15]

You forgot Ray Allen (23.5ppg, 5.0 rpg, 5.3 apg)

[ut_jazz]

Cleveland is 11 games below .500.. once he starts leading his team to w's he will get in.

[airlebron23]

But Lebron is leading Cleveland to W's, it's just that they had to get rid of Ricky Davis for Lebron to take over the team and the ball, and since Ricky D's gone, Lebron's gotten W's for Cleveland.

As to Ray Allen, no offense, but that's a dumb comparison, cuz Seattle was winning before Ray Ray got back, and Ray's played 21 games, TOTAL!

And Redd is a scorer for Milwaukee, but he doesn't do as much as Lebron, Lebron rebounds, and assists more, Lebron does it all, while Redd has a good pg in T.J. Ford to set him up, and bangers down low, that's why Redd isn't rebounding that well, and Desmond Mason is probably as good as Redd if given the chance, not scoring, but on defense, rebounding, and going to the basket. Got to go with James.

[og15]

yea I know, since Ricky left he's averaged 24.1 ppg. They were also 6-18
before the trade, and since then they've been 12-11.

Wins over Philly (no Iverson), Chicago, New Orleans, Portland, New York, Seattle (2), Utah, Philly, Orlando, Miami, and Washington.

I meant Allen is another guy with 20, 5 and 5 lol.

You shouldn't have said Redd isn't rebounding well because he has bangers, that just says that its not his fault he isn't getting boards and doesn't help your protest. I think Lebron should have made it over Artest as a throw-in but I guess that fact that Indiana is first kinda brought up Artest's value.

[ludacris06]

yea I know, since Ricky left he's averaged 24.1 ppg. They were also 6-18
before the trade, and since then they've been 12-11.

Wins over Philly (no Iverson), Chicago, New Orleans, Portland, New York, Seattle (2), Utah, Philly, Orlando, Miami, and Washington.

I meant Allen is another guy with 20, 5 and 5 lol.

You shouldn't have said Redd isn't rebounding well because he has bangers, that just says that its not his fault he isn't getting boards and doesn't help your protest. I think Lebron should have made it over Artest as a throw-in but I guess that fact that Indiana is first kinda brought up Artest's value.


The Cavs beat the Sixers twice with and without Allen Iverson and beat Detroit. They almost beat the Kings and they didn't even have Lebron. Lebron is passing, scoring, and gettin boards. I would pick Lebron over Redd because I go by how a player plays overall because 1 player can't carry a team unless you are Shaq.

[Rashidi]

Lebron had numbers, but so did Ricky Davis and Jalen Rose last year. Wins matter more than record. If you're going to take someone based on stats, then Abdur-Rahim should be taken over Lebron. Reef can play PF (something only 4 other players on the team can do). The last thing the east needs is ANOTHER guard.

Redd definitely deserves it, the Bucks have been winning games despite lesser talent.

People are talking like the Cavs are playing .500 after the Ricky Davis trade. They're still not even a .400 team.

[Anonymous]

James being on the team is debatable. But what's the sense of having him on the team anyway. He said he wasn't going to participate in the dunking competition, why would he play in the game anyways? To me, there were other players that deserved it more than LeBron did. I'm a Cavs fan sense I live in Ohio, but I honestly think there are some players playing better rightnow.

[og15]

The Cavs beat the Sixers twice with and without Allen Iverson and beat Detroit. They almost beat the Kings and they didn't even have Lebron. Lebron is passing, scoring, and gettin boards. I would pick Lebron over Redd because I go by how a player plays overall because 1 player can't carry a team unless you are Shaq.

I don't really know what your point is since I was supporting Lebron by saying that. I highlighted the impressive games and beating Philly without Iverson isn't impressive thats why I only put one Philly game as highlighted. Also like Rashidi said, look at Shareef and Ricky Davis and Rose last year. Redd deserves it for sure, no one said he's winning himself but there is not one big name guy on the Bucks, thats also why Kirelenko got it, looking at those teams everyone sees failure. Looking at the Cavs they have talent, its not like they have bad players.

Also them almost beating the Kings without Lebron has nothing to do with Lebron making the All-Star team, its just saying they are a capable team.

Lastly, when they beat Detroit they had Ricky Davis, I am talking about post Ricky Davis Cleveland.

http://www.nba.com/games/20031211/DETCLE/boxscore.html

[Anonymous]

People are talking like the Cavs are playing .500 after the Ricky Davis trade. They're still not even a .400 team.

Well, they have been playing .500 ball since the trade. They've won 4 out of their 5 games. They even got their first road win after Davis was traded away. They're just not at .400 or .500 overall yet since the beginning of the season.

[Blackwiz]

After looking at the lineup, i think its aight........i wish lebron and Melo were in it.......but airlebron, seriously, get off his nuts........you are talkin like he's the best playin the in the league.......i read the first post, u just went off........like its a big deal

im happy K-Mart made the team

and about Melo and Lebron, sure, look at their numbers, pretty good for rookies, but they aren't consistent, Lebron is averagin 20ppg, but he doesn't score 20ppg, more like a couple of 30 point games, then 15 point games, then maybe a 12 point game, then maybe a 27 point game....and don't forget them sometimes shooting like maybe (9-25)............maybe it was for the best, they are good rookies, but you can't exclude the ballas who been in the league for a while.........the point is they both weren't screwed by the league.


im also happy J.Kidd made the team, and also Pierce and B.Diddy and Ron Artest

[Anonymous]

I think the All Star game is totally whack. People mostly pick All Stars based on popularity, and not even stats. I mean c'mon Webber finished 5th or 6th in the PF voting and he hasn't even played one single freakin' game this season. I think they should split it up. 1/3 of votes go to the players. 1/3 of votes go to the officials, coachs and NBA staff, and 1/3 goes to the fans. It's totally ludicris.

[tommyh8687]

i dont care.
i personally thought redd deserved more.
boohoo LB, next MJ(?), blah blah, all that smoke in the air. no NOT YET. just play the damn rookies game.

[og15]

I totally agree, they should have the Coaches/Players/Fans vote in the starters, then the Coaches and Player votes in the bench. I don't want the refs voting lol.

Or another way thats kinda harsh to the fans.

The coaches/players pick the starters, then the fans/players and coaches vote for the bench players. That would discourage many people but it means Francis won't start and Vince might not get the forward spot unless he puts up good numbers (probably still will since there aren't that many good East Forwards).

We would start voting the same time, but then after the starters are picked by the coaches and are announced, then the 2 top voted forwards, guards and top voted center, that aren't picked as starters will be the first 5 bench players. Then the 2 other players will be the 2 next 2 top voted players regardless of position.

[Blackwiz]

I think the All Star game is totally whack. People mostly pick All Stars based on popularity, and not even stats. I mean c'mon Webber finished 5th or 6th in the PF voting and he hasn't even played one single freakin' game this season. I think they should split it up. 1/3 of votes go to the players. 1/3 of votes go to the officials, coachs and NBA staff, and 1/3 goes to the fans. It's totally ludicris.

^hmm, nah, i think your lettin it get to you, its just game where the fans can see the fav. players play.........a lot of streetball fans(yes, there are soem) would luv to see Rafer Alston play, he ain't doin nuttin, but they wanna show respect to their fav. player or if someon likes Iverson, they are givin him his props for wat he did in the previous year...........maybe they should just have a fan game, then a skill/stat game or somthin, where stats call the lineups.............Vince Carter(unless gets injured) will be voted into the startin lineup every year he's in the NBA or at least for the next couple of years, and I really doubt he'll become better than Kobe or T-Mac............its like Kobe, his numbers dropped tremendously, but he does have 4 stars, but thats not really it, they just luv em too much, fans will feel they wronged him if he isn't in the lineup.


i dont care.
i personally thought redd deserved more.
boohoo LB, next MJ(?), blah blah, all that smoke in the air. no NOT YET. just play the [***]
rookies game.

^^well said, fans who like lebron are only complaining because of the hype and a lot of them will say anything to make it like the coaches made a BIG mistake, hey..maybe so, maybe not

[Anonymous]

Well duh it's getting to me, if it wasn't I wouldn't of posted anything. It's just ludicris to pick players who don't deserve to play with the best of the best when simply there are players playing better than they are. A couple years ago Alonzo Mourning got picked for the starting position in the East, and he was practically out the whole season due to kidney failure. They might as well call it the All-Popularity game, instead of All-Star game, simply becuase there's better players getting cheated out of getting the oppurtunity to play with some of the best.

[K Bomber]

i dont care.
i personally thought redd deserved more.
boohoo LB, next MJ(?), blah blah, all that smoke in the air. no NOT YET. just play the [***]
rookies game.

^^well said, fans who like lebron are only complaining because of the hype and a lot of them will say anything to make it like the coaches made a BIG mistake, hey..maybe so, maybe not
Wiz, go look at LeBron's stats and then go find me some players who have put up comparable numbers

Once you do that you'll realize why he should be there and Michael Redd shouldn't be

It's got nothing to do with hype................

[Smush Parker]

BOOZER GOT SNUBBED. K-Mart sucks

[K Bomber]

For the record, there's only a couple of guys averaging 20+ppg, and in around 6apg and 6rpg

Their names are LeBron James and Tracy McGrady

Tell me again how he doesn't deserve to be in the ASG..............

[Blackwiz]

i dont care.
i personally thought redd deserved more.
boohoo LB, next MJ(?), blah blah, all that smoke in the air. no NOT YET. just play the [***]
rookies game.

^^well said, fans who like lebron are only complaining because of the hype and a lot of them will say anything to make it like the coaches made a BIG mistake, hey..maybe so, maybe not
Wiz, go look at LeBron's stats and then go find me some players who have put up comparable numbers

Once you do that you'll realize why he should be there and Michael Redd shouldn't be

It's got nothing to do with hype................

im not sayin he didn't get snubbed, but that they didn't choose him and its over wit, its all around "Lebron got snubbed" blah blah blah, maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but get over it, I wanted Melo to get picked, but he didn't, but im still watchin the game..........hey, it'll just make Lebron work harder, a lot of players get snubbed for different things and this isn't anything different, but i have a feelin people will constantly talk about this like its the biggest thing...........hey, VC shouldn't have made the team, he got the most votes though, you know, its life, and Lebron's young, i don't think he has had anyone come up to him and say "no"........i heard he's an only child, so he has a kinda mind that...........well, you know, an only child mind........its pretty obvious wat im sayin

maybe he got snubbed, maybe he didn't, get over it..........there's next year..........in fact, the all star game isn't every thing and people aren't realizing that......

[Blackwiz]

im watching Lebron play the Lakers right now, its 42 seconds left in OT and the Lakers are up 103-98.

Just watching Lebron play, you can see the future superstar in him.......I can see it now, he'll have the heart of Allen Iverson and the desire to win of Magic or Jordan.......no, I didn't say he'll be the next Jordan or Magic, but he'll have a lot of heart.....lol......as if he doesn't already have heart.


no, but really, when you watch him play, he wants to win so bad, like I have been sayin, I am a fan of Lebron and his game, I just really hate the hype that surrounds him.........I just wish it wasn't there........let time show what the player will be come, i hate when people already decide who and what players will become like or accomplish.......

[og15]

One point I forgot to make is

If you look you'll see that the players picked were all on winning teams except Ray Allen and Pierce, and Pierce and Allen were basically on the next teams closest to be winning.

Note: New York is ahead of Boston, but they didn't have a forward to beat Pierce, Marbury would be picked as a guard.

Also compared to what was expected of their teams, Ray, Redd and Kirelenko have really shown a lot.


Pre-Season Rankings, look at the 3 predicted last teams, hmm I know some players picked from those teams.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2004&week=0


Actual Current Positions


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/standingsseason=2004&group=league&column=winPercent&order=null&seasontype=2




But as Heat guard Eddie Jones said in the locker room before the game, winning always trumps statistics.

"You're not supposed to be an All-Star if you're on a team that's not .500," Jones said. "[Odom's] numbers are there. And if you wipe away those first seven games of the year [0-7 Heat start], yeah, he deserves it. I remember Sam Cassell playing here for the Nets, and he had great numbers, but he never made [the All-Star game]. This year, he's on a winning team, and he made it. It's all about winning."

[og15]

Also Lebron did not commint a turnover today, and Lebron went 4 of 4 from 3 point range. That is impressive, well at least I thought it was since he's been struggling (with his 3's that is), even though that pull up air ball was kinda embarassing who cares, he shot 46%.

[K Bomber]

Also Lebron did not commint a turnover today, and Lebron went 4 of 4 from 3 point range. That is impressive, well at least I thought it was since he's been struggling (with his 3's that is), even though that pull up air ball was kinda embarassing who cares, he shot 46%.
He's had four games in the last month without a TO and one game with one TO

For February he's averaging 27.2ppg, 4.7apg and 4.7rpg

Still the clear cut choice for ROY..............

[og15]

True, but February has only been 3 games, the more impressive stats are his numbers since the trade. I'm not calculating but something like 24, 5 and 5.

[voxstinii]

Micheal Redd deserved it more than LeBron? Seriously...I wonder in what respect...Both players have done alot for their teams, and both have good numbers.

I think that LeBron's Numbers are far superior to Redd's but that's just my opinion, and I also think that LeBron's more helpful to his team than Redd is to his..

Kenny Smith test...Put LeBron on the Bucks and Redd on the Cavs...the Cavs would suck, and the Bucks would be having a break out year (similar to what they're expereincing with Redd).

LeBron got robbed. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorists are nothing, but I think that some of the coaches froze LeBron out because of the hype. They did it as a sort of a statement to stem the tide of High School to NBA ballers.

I think that it's so funny how this argument has changed from the league's perspective over the years. Originally it was for the players on good that they not make the jump; they couldn't handle the NBA life. I can only remember about one or two players that made the leap that got to the league and completely tanked, got drafted in the 2nd round or went undrafted...but on the flipside what percentage of 4 year college players tank, get drafted late, or go undrafted?

Not to mention the fact that players risk injury in college. Ya'll might not remember this but one of the first players to begin the "Highschool to NBA" talk was Randy Livingstone. That's right journey-man pointguard that's always showing up on some random nba team just in time to play back-up point when the fulltime starter gets injured. He was Highschool player of the year and their was talk of him completely bypassing college, but he went to college and completely destroyed both of his knees, and the large guaranteed contract that he could have garnered from early entry was completely lost.

Then it was for the good of the NBA game argument; the players weren't able to play the game correctly, and while they developed they took away playing time, roster spots and money from veterans who already learned the game in college and from previous NBA experience. But that argument had to end since a good percentage (dare I say, even a majority) of the league's best players never suited up for a single college game. These kids were becoming bonafied stars way before their time, and developed at an amazing pace. Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'neil, T-Mac...not to mention foreign players that never touched collegiate courts, and early entry candidates that only played college ball for 1-year.

Now the newest argument is 'the for the good of NCAA basketball' argument. This one is valid, at least way more valid than previous arguments, this argument states that NCAA Basketball (the NBA's unofficial farm system) is being deprived of its major talent, and this could cause a serious loss in quality of the NCAA's ability to be a farm system of the NBA. I think that this is part of the reason that the NBA has created the NBDL.

LeBron got robbed. bottom line... I love to hear people say that he's a future star...but 20pts, 5rebs, and 5assist a game are superstar numbers. From a purely statistical player LeBron might be the best player in the league, of course I don't believe that he's the best in the league...but to say that he may be a star one-day is crazy. The future is now, look at the numbers.

It's gonna be pretty silly when LeBron makes all-NBA and then there will be players that made the All-star team over him that didn't make all-NBA.

Other good conspiracies....The Paul Pierce-Toinne Walker freeze out of last years all star game...The Ray Allen freeze out from the 02 game in Philly (for the love of GOD the east team was getting washed and Allen hits like 13 points in a 5 minute stretch in the 2nd to revitalize them, then doesn't touch the ball again till the 4th).

[TheGameShutDown]

I get the feeling that Lebron didn't make the team because of his lack of consistency. It's not the best excuse, but I bet it was a reason that the coaches chose not to pick him. He only started putting up superstar stats after Rick D. got traded. His team was considered a flop for half of the season, and just recently are they playing good basketball. Michael Redd's been playing like an all-star the whole season and his team has been playing above .500 for a lot of the season. That's a big reason why AK-47 made it. Look at his team's record. Then look at that roster. Then look at that division. That's unbelievable.

Lebron might deserve to be an all-star but who's to say that Michael Redd doesn't.

Kenny Smith test...Put LeBron on the Bucks and Redd on the Cavs...the Cavs would suck, and the Bucks would be having a break out year (similar to what they're expereincing with Redd).

It's a shame you can't prove that.

I can only remember about one or two players that made the leap that got to the league and completely tanked, got drafted in the 2nd round or went undrafted

Korleone Young, Ousmane Cisse, Tony Key, Lenny Cooke, DeAngelo Collins, James Lang. Plus not to mention the people I forgot and some of the the 10-plus reported high schoolers that are making the jump this year.

but on the flipside what percentage of 4 year college players tank, get drafted late, or go undrafted?

That's because most seniors that are putting up great stats would have already gone to the league. Some of them just aren't good. Most weren't McDonald's All-Americans or played in the EA Sports Roundball Classic. A ton of seniors don't get drafted but who's to say they would've gotten drafted had they entered four yeas ago?

but he went to college and completely destroyed both of his knees, and the large guaranteed contract that he could have garnered from early entry was completely lost.

Do you want me to give the stories of stupid high schoolers who chose to go straight to the L and failed miserably before even making it?

[og15]

Micheal Redd deserved it more than LeBron? Seriously...I wonder in what respect...Both players have done alot for their teams, and both have good numbers.

I think that LeBron's Numbers are far superior to Redd's but that's just my opinion, and I also think that LeBron's more helpful to his team than Redd is to his..

Lebron's numbers are better than Redd, well except for in shooting and scoring, and he's only beating Redd by 0.8 rebounds a game. But Milwaukee was supposed to be the last place team in the NBA this season. THe Cavs were actually predicted as a top 20 team. The Cavs also have much more talent that the Bucks.


Kenny Smith test...Put LeBron on the Bucks and Redd on the Cavs...the Cavs would suck, and the Bucks would be having a break out year (similar to what they're expereincing with Redd).

I'll list the players and which team wins

Brian Skiner - Ilguaskas (Cavs)
Joe Smith - Carlos Boozer (Cavs)
Tim Thomas - Ricky Davis, no Eric Williams (I'll say Bucks)
Michael Redd - Lebron (Cavs right)
TJ Ford - Jeff Mcinis (Cavs)

Bench
Desmond - Wagner (Bucks)
Damon - Ollie (Tie)
Gadzuric and Kukoc - Chris Mihm and Diop before and now Battie and Diop (Tie)
Strickland - Wagner (Tie)

Lebron doesn't really hve more to work with if he's in Milwaukee.

[og15]

For Melo

Denver teammate Earl Boykins isn't all that outraged about rookie Carmelo Anthony not making the Western Conference All-Star team as a reserve.

``You look at the guys who are on the team and you can't argue with them,'' Boykins said. ``Carmelo will be an All-Star plenty of times.''


Earlier this season, Warriors Coach Eric Musselman said he thought Anthony was an All-Star. Musselman was a lot more coy when asked to update his opinion, although other sources on the team said he voted for Utah forward Andrei Kirilenko.



Cavaliers rookie LeBron James, obviously upset, has said he won't accept an All-Star invitation as an injury replacement, but sources believe NBA commissioner David Stern still might extend such an invitation for James if the opportunity arises because James would be good for TV ratings. Good ol' Stern.

[Blackwiz]

maybe he deserved it, maybe he didn't, but i know lebron really lacks consistency........but his his numbers are good cuz he'll go maybe 27 points one game, but the next, he'll shoot 6-18 with 16 points, then maybe he'll drop 20 points off of 9-21 shooting. Then he'll have a great game scoring like 32 points. But then next game, he'll take 28 shots and make only 11 of them.....well, you get the point, his numbers are great, but we don't know wat was goin through the coaches minds, but it could be that he isn't consistent.......who knows, i mean, i feel Melo and Lebron should have made it, but they didn't....

[og15]

There's something wrong with the system, all right, but that wasn't it. James, who just turned 19, may not miss another All-Star team for 15 years, but it's refreshing that they're not running the entire league around him, until, say, he turns 20, makes the playoffs or gets his shooting percentage over 42%.


We also have to realize that the rules had already been bent for the All-Star selections, which is why Lebron got as close as he did.

Squads should have five guards, five forwards and two centers. Even without James, the East has six guards — starters Allen Iverson and Tracy McGrady, reserves Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, Paul Pierce and Michael Redd — not to mention Vince Carter, a guard who now plays forward for the Toronto Raptors

Of the guards who finished ahead of him, James is outscoring only one, Kidd, whose place is secure. James is shooting better than only one, Iverson, whose place is also secure. James' team has won more games than only one, McGrady's, and his place is still safe.

If the modern athlete has an exaggerated sense of entitlement, it's not really his fault. He's at the center of a system that leads him to believe he's supposed to get everything he wants. If there isn't enough to go around, someone must have been cheated.

In what is becoming an annual rite of the NBA's winter, the team campaigns for him, the local media leads cheers and the national media plays up close calls as if they were outrages. So we get this remarkable passage in a wire-service game story after last week's Miami loss at New Jersey:

"Lamar Odom, who was not selected to the All-Star game despite averaging 16.9 points and 9.8 rebounds, had 27 points and 12 rebounds in showing what fans will miss at the midseason showcase of the NBA's top talent."

Odom is playing well, but 16.9 points a game put him 37th in league scoring at the time, and everyone who's playing well doesn't get to be an All-Star.

I may be a cockeyed optimist, but we've gotten through all the others without Odom and we just may make it again.

[voxstinii]

I'll list the players and which team wins

Brian Skiner - Ilguaskas (Cavs)
Joe Smith - Carlos Boozer (Cavs)
Tim Thomas - Ricky Davis, no Eric Williams (I'll say Bucks)
Michael Redd - Lebron (Cavs right)
TJ Ford - Jeff Mcinis (Cavs)

Bench
Desmond - Wagner (Bucks)
Damon - Ollie (Tie)
Gadzuric and Kukoc - Chris Mihm and Diop before and now Battie and Diop (Tie)
Strickland - Wagner (Tie)

Lebron doesn't really hve more to work with if he's in Milwaukee.

Yeah you're right...Lebron does have a better supporting class than Redd, guess that I got carried away in my Kenny Smith test. My bad.