If Vince Carter couldn't dunk, would he be in the All-Star..

[STEEL_GORILLA_PIMP]

If Vince Carter couldn't dunk, would he be in the All-Star game?
For the last few years he has been voted in as an All-Star receiving the most votes. The last two years he has been unhealthy. I think the primary reason why Vince keeps getting the nod is that fans expect him to pull off a sick dunk, but if he couldn't dunk would he get the votes he does and would he be in the All-Star game? Would he get the hype he does? Give answers and explain.

[K Bomber]

If he couldn't dunk, he wouldn't be in the league :wink:

Seriously, VC is a replay machine, but he has legitimate talent and the ability to be a top five guy in the league. What separates him from the other elite SG is desire, in my opinion

Look at some of the plays he made yesterday against Golden State. There aren't many guys who can flat out do those things. The crazy thing is that if he plays that way consistently, there would be no question marks

Carter can still pull me out of my seat with his play, and I'm a jaded old guy, I've seen a lot of ball and my share of the amazing, but some of the things he does are without equal

He just needs to pursue greatness ALL the time..................

[ludacris06]

Dunk= 2 points
Layup= 2 points
3 pointer= 3 points

A dunk is a higher percentage shot than any other shot from the field, and Vince has the amazing ability to get to the paint and score at free will. Vince Carter does have a J, does anyone remember the 2001 playoffs aginst Philly? 8 three pointers in one half!

The reason why VC is getting votes because there is no forward in the East that is better than Vince Carter. If the ballot said you can only pick one forward, everyone would picke Jermaine O'Neal. Since the Ballot said Pick 2, VC will get votes no matter what. It would be a diffrent story if you threw Vince in the list of gaurds instead.

[og15]

Yea Luda is right, also carter did shoot 40.3% and 40.8% from 3 land his second and third seasons, and its not like he wasn't taking three's , he took 236 and 397.

But yea there really aren't any other East small forwards that are that good, or that a playing in the beginning of the season.(Mashburn)


Detroit Pistons coach Larry Brown said Carter's critics are too quick to judge.

"He hasn't been healthy," said Brown. "When he's healthy, everybody would consider him as good as anybody in the league. You can send him to me – I'll take him. I love him."

[Blackwiz]

VC is nice, but out voting everyone in the All Star wouldn't be the case if he couldn't dunk......

[Brankles]

The man scores 20+ ppg... and he doesn't dunk 10 times per game...

He deserves an All-Star slot, this year... last year, he played a total of 10 games and was somehow named a starter over MJ... that was some booty...


But if VC couldn't dunk, meaning him not being an athletic run-and-jump freak, of course he wouldn't be as popular or talented. If he had, say Tayshaun Prince's hops, he would not get nearly as many votes...


VC and his dunks are kinda like Peja and his three-point shot and Jason Kidd and his passes... if they couldn't do that, they probably would not be the superstars they are...





Holla

[ludacris06]

VC and his dunks are kinda like Peja and his three-point shot and Jason Kidd and his passes... if they couldn't do that, they probably would not be the superstars they are...


True, true...

[alldayy]

Isn't he popular in China or something? So I think they all vote for him. Same reason why Yao Ming is starting.

[K Bomber]

Vince visited and ran basketball camps in China before last season and wowed the Chinese people. They love him there

That's another reason for his ASG voting domination................

[Blackwiz]

VC and his dunks are kinda like Peja and his three-point shot and Jason Kidd and his passes... if they couldn't do that, they probably would not be the superstars they are...


True, true...

yea, but J.Kidd is not just a passer, he has the best court vision

[K Bomber]

VC and his dunks are kinda like Peja and his three-point shot and Jason Kidd and his passes... if they couldn't do that, they probably would not be the superstars they are...


True, true...

yea, but J.Kidd is not just a passer, he has the best court vision
What does that mean?

If he couldn't see the play, he wouldn't make it. It's kind of like six of one and a half dozen of the other

That's like saying Spud Webb wouldn't have been as great a dunker if he couldn't jump.................

[ludacris06]

yea, but J.Kidd is not just a passer, he has the best court vision

Thats not the point. The point is that these players do what they do best and they get voted for it.

[TheGameShutDown]

last year, he played a total of 10 games and was somehow named a starter over MJ

Wasn't MJ on the guards list?

I don't really think it matters what would it be like if Vince couldn't dunk. This is the all-star game. Vince can dunk, and he can do it pretty damn well, which makes the game exciting to watch. He's not going to get voted to the All NBA Team because of his dunking. He probably won't make third or second because he's not having a good enough season. Which is fair...

I think people have just become naturally used to voting for Vince. In his second and third year, he was a superstar, and he was at the height of his abilities. Kind of like Steve Francis. He's put up all-star numbers in his career, just not this year, though he's still a starter, one reason being because he's exciting.

[ludacris06]

He deserves an All-Star slot, this year... last year, he played a total of 10 games and was somehow named a starter over MJ... that was some booty...

I coulda swore MJ started over Vince because I remember him coming off the bench during the game. I know Iverson, Mcgrady, and Vince offerd thier starting spots to MJ and I guess he accepted. I'm not sure...

[TheGameShutDown]

Yeah the announcer let out that Vince was giving up his spot to MJ when MJ was introduced.

[Blackwiz]

VC and his dunks are kinda like Peja and his three-point shot and Jason Kidd and his passes... if they couldn't do that, they probably would not be the superstars they are...


True, true...

yea, but J.Kidd is not just a passer, he has the best court vision
What does that mean?

If he couldn't see the play, he wouldn't make it. It's kind of like six of one and a half dozen of the other

That's like saying Spud Webb wouldn't have been as great a dunker if he couldn't jump.................

i didn't get to finish, i had to leave, so i just clicked submit.........the quote whoeva said, was like VC wouldn't be a star if he couldn't dunk.......that could be true, but wat about T-Mac or Kobe?? They are stars and they do some crazy dunks......Im not sure i understand wat ur sayin?? Are u sayin that if J.Kidd wasn't a fancy passer, he wouldn't be the star he is?? Cuz he's a great passer and has great court vision, but he doesn't have to be fancy with the passes.....

[Brankles]

No, we're saying that Vince Carter is a good player because he can dunk...

But... if you take away his dunks, he'd be pretty mediocre...

Jason Kidd, if he couldn't pass, would not be good.

Peja Stojakavic, if he couldn't shoot, would not be good.

Vince Carter, if he couldn't dunk, or have that incredible athleticism, would not be good.


Kobe and TMac have good athleticism, like Carter, but can do many, many things better than Vince. Give them 40 year old MJ's hops, and they would still be able to play decent basketball. Vince would not.


That's my point... he's kind of a one-trick pony, who can do other things alright...





Holla

[Blackwiz]

No, we're saying that Vince Carter is a good player because he can dunk...

But... if you take away his dunks, he'd be pretty mediocre...

Jason Kidd, if he couldn't pass, would not be good.




im talkin about the J.Kidd thing, are you sayin if he didn't have the court vision that he has, then he wouldn't be good?? If that was the case, if he didn't have the court vision, he prolly wouldn't be in the NBA, but he's in there cuz he's a good point guard and he has great court vision and he sets players up well and makes players around him better

[ludacris06]

Kobe and TMac have good athleticism, like Carter, but can do many, many things better than Vince. Give them 40 year old MJ's hops, and they would still be able to play decent basketball. Vince would not.


That's my point... he's kind of a one-trick pony, who can do other things alright...

Holla

You really can't say that because there is no way you can really prove this. The injury bug comes and gets everyone and that can disturb your game. I think everyone would suck if they had MJ hops with a late jumpshot.

[Brankles]

You guys are over-analyzing my statements...

The point is... Vince would be a bad player if he had, say Emanual Ginobili's hops... I think he relies too heavily on his athleticism, and that when he reaches that age when he won't be able to funk it at will... he won't be very productive...


After you're done re-arranging what I've said, and writing a thesis on it... can you spell check it too?

hehe Only Kidding.





Holla

[TheGameShutDown]

I disagree...

A dunk gets you two points. A layup gets you two points. A mid-range J gets you two points. Vince's dunking puts him at a higher standard with the fans. But it doesn't making him a good player. He averages 21 points per game, only .3 less than Kobe.

You take away Vince's great dunking abilitiy, then he'll still probably average around the same number of points. He'll still have his world-class athleticism, he'll still his explosiveness, he'll still have his J...He might not be the leading vote getter in the ASG, but there's no doubt he'll still probably be an all-star.

Vince doesn't score his 21 points off of dunks. I'm impressed by how well he's doing after injury-depleted seasons for the past two years. Before those years, he was considered better than Kobe and T-Mac. Lets not take anything away from Vince. He's putting up all-star stats, and it's not from his dunking.

[Blackwiz]

You guys are over-analyzing my statements...

The point is... Vince would be a bad player if he had, say Emanual Ginobili's hops... I think he relies too heavily on his athleticism, and that when he reaches that age when he won't be able to funk it at will... he won't be very productive...





no, wrong thing to say, like GSD said, a dunk is 2 points and so is a layup, Vince gets to the hole and dunks it, but he can always layup it if he wanted to.........and also like he said, he doesn't dunk all the time.........by the way, Vince can shoot, so i don't see how he would be a bad player

[K Bomber]

J Kidd's gift isn't the passes, it's the vision. One begets the other

It was the same way with Gretzky, it wasn't about physical skills as much as how he saw the game

The passses are a result, not the core talent..............

[ludacris06]

You guys are over-analyzing my statements...

The point is... Vince would be a bad player if he had, say Emanual Ginobili's hops... I think he relies too heavily on his athleticism, and that when he reaches that age when he won't be able to funk it at will... he won't be very productive...


After you're done re-arranging what I've said, and writing a thesis on it... can you spell check it too?

hehe Only Kidding.






Holla



Already did. I spotted it the second time I looked at the thread. Kinda embarssing. Oh well...



Well if VC couldn't dunk, he can always do layups like Allen Iverson. VC and AI havle almost the same penetration skills, so I think VC would still make the all star team because he can shoot and drive to the hoop.

I starting to think that all you guys think VC can do is dunk. Well, you are wrong. He shoots a solid 38% from three point, and he can shoot the mid range jumpshot off the dribble just like T-Mac and Kobe. It might not be as good as thiers, but it's there. He also makes good use of his jumping ability other than dunking. He's a solid shot blocker a 6'6 or 6'7. (The read to achieve program said he was 6'7, but thats the read to achieve program...)

The All Star team isn't everything, it just shows that you are liked by the fans because of what they do. Many can argue some non All-Stars are better than some All-Stars, but the All-Star game is just for fans...

[Blackwiz]

J Kidd's gift isn't the passes, it's the vision. One begets the other

It was the same way with Gretzky, it wasn't about physical skills as much as how he saw the game

The passses are a result, not the core talent..............

that's wat i've been tryin to say, its not like J.Kidd is famous cuz he can pass, he has the court vision and he just makes plays with the fancy passes, but its the court vision that enables him to make the fancy pass

[doubleR10]

court vision and passing do not go hand and hand. Vision is one skill and passing is another. There are different types of passing as well as different types of vision. Just because you can see the floor does not mean you can still make the pass or even a fancy pass. A basic pass is difficult enough. Jason Kidd game goes beyond court vision. He is what I call a "ppg" or Psychic Point Guard. You actually have to see what is going to happen before it happens and then make it happen. I hope you can understand what I am saying and it is hard to tell the difference between the two because a lot of what happens in a game come from set plays so he already knows where there are going to be. But in open court situations or fastbreak plays is where you can see the raw skill that he posesses. I really can't break it down like I want to but I hope you understand a little.
Magic
Stockton
Cousy
Maravich
Bird
Kidd
Thomas
The PPG's ( these are my personal favorites)

[og15]

Those are all supposed to be "Psychic Point Guard's" right?

I was just wondering why Bird is in there???

[K Bomber]

Those are all supposed to be "Psychic Point Guard's" right?

I was just wondering why Bird is in there???
Actually, I thought he was an ESF - Existential Shooting Forward :roll:

Didn't everyone know that................ :wink:

[ludacris06]

I thought this thread was about Vince Carter, not J Kidd... you guys get sidetracked too easily..

[Blackwiz]

I thought this thread was about Vince Carter, not J Kidd... you guys get sidetracked too easily..


that's not a bad thing, we here at espnvideogames switch stuff around, u know, keep things goin, and not so dead

[ludacris06]

There's already a point gaurd thread, we don't need another one espcillay if J Kidd is both of them....

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Well I do belive Vince Carter was better than Tracy Mcgrady and Kobe Bryant before his injuries. When VC slowly recovers, he will be back to that level.

In the ony full season Vince has played, he averaged 25 points while shooting 46% from the field, and 40% from three point. (Ray allen status right there) Plus, that was his sophmore season.

In the playoffs, this guy was fire! I remember when the Raptors had thier series with the Sixers and Vince and AI were neck to neck when they both dropped 50+ on each other in back to back games. Vince even dropped 8 three pointers in one half to tie an NBA Playoff record..

Sill on his great shooting, the following season, he averaged 27 points on 46% from the field and 40% from three point.

Those were prolly VC's best seasons of his carrer so far, and he has to get himself back into shape so he can play like he used to.

[doubleR10]

I guess I did put him with the PPG's. I was thinking more of his ability than his position. I did not even realize it. There are exceptions to every rule. LOL. Oh, the ESF was cute also.

[NYspeedy]

Where all the haters now? I see a lot of negative votes, but they can't back it!

[ANGELFUNK & TMAC]

What is this ****.....

come on if Ben Wallace couldnt rebound he would be a hack.....

if Jkidd didnt have that vision he would be crap......

THE FACT IS THEY DO HAVE THESE ABILITIES......

If VC didnt haVE those hops he would probably be just as good although he wouldnt be as popular....

Ever see Jkidd throw down a windmill and he is the most exciting player in the L by soooo much...

peace