The last word is that this baby is nothing, but another "PORT"

[StartDaGame15]

Same gameplay, better graphics.

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/03/mlb_2k6_360_screen.jpg (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/696/696799p1.html)
Even though MLB 2K6 for the Xbox 360 will be delayed until April 24, IGN was able to score some tickets to 2K Sports' San Rafael studio for an exclusive look at how the development team has been spending their extended Spring training. In addition to baserunning, fielding mechanics, and crowd rendering enhancements, IGN says the next gen polish is most evident in the player models. The familiar 2K cloth physics and the attention to detail (down to personalized gloves) make stars like Pujols and Big Papi come to life.

However, judging by screenshots alone, the (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/696/696799p1.html)360 version (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/788/788100/imgs_1.html) doesn't really look $20 better than the current gen (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/696/696799p1.html)Xbox version (http://media.xbox.ign.com/media/788/788099/imgs_1.html). Could this be a repeat performance of the 360's NBA 2K6? You be the judge.
(http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/696/696799p1.html)

"You be the judge!"

Will this affect your decision?

Xbox or Xbox 360

[sleepytercel]

I don't think there is a choice. Regardless if it is a minor upgrade, it is still better than the original Xbox version. It could just have added cloth physics, but overall, it would make the game an improvement.

I don't think anyone expects the gameplay to be enhanced or really improved and I think anyone who thinks tyhe gameplay will be better, may just be in false hope. Right now, I don't understand why anyone would think the game would be anything more than just a graphical upgrade.

[kirk]

Same gameplay, better graphics.



"You be the judge!"

Will this affect your decision?

Xbox or Xbox 360

First of all, who are you quoting? Secondly, judging by the screen shots, this game easily looks $20 better than the current gen. Please stop the moronic, pointless, recycled threads...

[REDSFAN2004]

i said this in another thread already,its the same game as the xbox version,the graphics stadiums and player models,will just look 10 times better thats all,and if im wrong which i don't think i am,somebody please correct me then.

[baandje]

The player models, most animations and the majority of the game play is ported. The stadiums and fields, spectators and cloth unis aren't.

I think we can officially move on to another topic now...

[ChunkeyMonkey]

For one, that will look 10x better in HD or on a TV. For two, it maybe be a port, but like that one guy said, its STILL better than the xbox version. And for three, every stadium etc is updated and correct for the 360 version, that right there makes it so much better than the xbox version.

[DaoudS]

The player models, most animations and the majority of the game play is ported. The stadiums and fields, spectators and cloth unis aren't.

I think we can officially move on to another topic now...

thank you. and since when does ign does the best reviews OR previews?

[Art1bk]

Why are people still making threads about this? It has been brought up like 100 times!

[bubba4]

I certainly hope this game does turn out to be like NBA2K6 on the 360. Just to watch NBA2K6 in action is STILL amazing to me! If a game is ported, but looks and plays 10x better, I would still have to call that game next-gen. I am a PC gamer and we have a different perpsective on games and hardware. For us, the software is always running ahead of the hardware. A new game will come out that will choke that monsta gaming rig you THOUGHT you had. So we will tweak and fiddle with things to try to avoid the obvious conclusion... we need a hardware upgrade! Then we can PORT that game over to take advantage of the new hardware.

On the console side, we always have this feeling that most software never really takes full advantage of the hardware. And when a new machine comes out, it is obvious that game makers take the PC gamers approach. They port the game over to take advantage of the new hardware. And by the time they finally get the hang of developing for the new machine, a new console comes out and the cycle begins all over again.

I don't know if we'll ever reach the point where we have that killer machine that delivers equally killer apps. Either the software is ahead of the curve, or the hardware is ahead of the curve. And when you have a box like the PS2, which in my opinion will set next-gen gaming back for years, wait until you see a company try to take a game and move/port it over to the PS3. That many PS2's out there will be too hard to ignore.

I hope at some point, porting a game over will become more difficult than starting from scratch. Until that happens, game makers will always take the most cost effective way in. But if the "port" is a good port.... I have no choice but to declare it next-gen.
Bubba4

[Bears34]

I certainly hope this game does turn out to be like NBA2K6 on the 360. Just to watch NBA2K6 in action is STILL amazing to me! If a game is ported, but looks and plays 10x better, I would still have to call that game next-gen. I am a PC gamer and we have a different perpsective on games and hardware. For us, the software is always running ahead of the hardware. A new game will come out that will choke that monsta gaming rig you THOUGHT you had. So we will tweak and fiddle with things to try to avoid the obvious conclusion... we need a hardware upgrade! Then we can PORT that game over to take advantage of the new hardware.

On the console side, we always have this feeling that most software never really takes full advantage of the hardware. And when a new machine comes out, it is obvious that game makers take the PC gamers approach. They port the game over to take advantage of the new hardware. And by the time they finally get the hang of developing for the new machine, a new console comes out and the cycle begins all over again.

I don't know if we'll ever reach the point where we have that killer machine that delivers equally killer apps. Either the software is ahead of the curve, or the hardware is ahead of the curve. And when you have a box like the PS2, which in my opinion will set next-gen gaming back for years, wait until you see a company try to take a game and move/port it over to the PS3. That many PS2's out there will be too hard to ignore.

I hope at some point, porting a game over will become more difficult than starting from scratch. Until that happens, game makers will always take the most cost effective way in. But if the "port" is a good port.... I have no choice but to declare it next-gen.
Bubba4



I hear you man. If this game fallows in NBA2K6 footsteps bring it on. This game will be better though because they are rebuilding the stadiums 100%. That was the one thing lacking in NBA2K6. The players were nicely done , but for the most part the arenas and crowds were not enhanced from current gen.


I also dont understand what people mean by next gen game play ? What gameplay features would be considered next gen ? Besides graphics I dont know what else can be enhanced ??? And what gameplay feature could be added to a game in the next gen that couldnt be added in current gen ?

[Knight Rider 2K]

Hardly the last word.

[StartDaGame15]

I don't think there is a choice. Regardless if it is a minor upgrade, it is still better than the original Xbox version. It could just have added cloth physics, but overall, it would make the game an improvement.

I don't think anyone expects the gameplay to be enhanced or really improved and I think anyone who thinks tyhe gameplay will be better, may just be in false hope. Right now, I don't understand why anyone would think the game would be anything more than just a graphical upgrade.

Hey man, I was just checkin'!!!!! :salute:

[xxpujols4mvpxx]

If i see another thread about how the game might not be great, i will personally hang myself. Just kidding, but good lord this is getting me mad because i want every person in this room that has a 360 to believe it is unbelievable. I think the 360 is above expectations graphically. I can't wait. Yous is a **** if yous got a 360.............. xbox 360 is the best, i love GRAW. Please stop bringing the game down.

[bubba4]

I also dont understand what people mean by next gen game play ? What gameplay features would be considered next gen ? Besides graphics I dont know what else can be enhanced ??? And what gameplay feature could be added to a game in the next gen that couldnt be added in current gen ?

You have a good point here! Next-gen must be about graphics. And if the graphics are good, port or no port, what's all the fighting about in these forums? Tetris has good gameplay. The only thing that could make that game next-gen is updated graphics. I suppose it's the same with most games.
bubba4

[baandje]

You have a good point here! Next-gen must be about graphics.
Not at all, and this has been discussed now for years leading up to the arrival of next-gen consoles. Next-gen memory will allow for a huge leap in game play. We see that already in GRAW. The A.I. is greatly improved; enemies randomly free-roam the map rather than having a set and identical programmed routine or scheme every new game.

And no possible way you could have for example multi-player ragdoll physics along with the graphical upgrades, without next-gen memory. And if and when some sports gaming company starts incorporating ragdoll physics, we'll see another huge leap in game play possibilities. Take a look at the sorry state of all that in 2K6. There's no real "substance" to the players. Line drives can't and don't bad hop and bounce up and off their glove or shin or whatever. Heck, there's not even player collision detection, and base runners run right through the bodies of infielders. So base runners can't get hit by line drives, or by pick off attempts, or can't collide with a fielder as he's going for the ball; etc. ALL OF THAT has MUCHO to do with next-gen game play and it's many possibilities.

[Bears34]

Not at all, and this has been discussed now for years leading up to the arrival of next-gen consoles. Next-gen memory will allow for a huge leap in game play. We see that already in GRAW. The A.I. is greatly improved; enemies randomly free-roam the map rather than having a set and identical programmed routine or scheme every new game.

And no possible way you could have for example multi-player ragdoll physics along with the graphical upgrades, without next-gen memory. And if and when some sports gaming company starts incorporating ragdoll physics, we'll see another huge leap in game play possibilities. Take a look at the sorry state of all that in 2K6. There's no real "substance" to the players. Line drives can't and don't bad hop and bounce up and off their glove or shin or whatever. Heck, there's not even player collision detection, and base runners run right through the bodies of infielders. So base runners can't get hit by line drives, or by pick off attempts, or can't collide with a fielder as he's going for the ball; etc. ALL OF THAT has MUCHO to do with next-gen game play and it's many possibilities.


I hear ya hear baandje. My point was more or less regarding the basics for playng a game. Your still going to press a button to throw the ball or pitch, your still going to press a button or pull a ****og stick to swing ect.........

I understand what your saying about the physics and the other things you mentioned, but IMO those are all still graphical type enhancements. Graphics / animations are both visual qualities to me. Rather an error is animated by the dumb "kick the ball around the infield" animation or by the ball taking a bad hop and bouncing off a glove like you described , the same outcome is still reached. The only difference is the ball taking a bad hop and bouncing off the glove just looks better.

I guess I need to see something in the next gen that makes me say" Now thats next gen gameplay" to fully understand because right now it still looks to me that making the games look/animate more "real" is the best enhancement.

[baandje]

I guess I need to see something in the next gen that makes me say" Now thats next gen gameplay" to fully understand because right now it still looks to me that making the games look/animate more "real" is the best enhancement.
What I'm trying to point out is that with rag doll physics for example, the players themselves will be modeled in a 3-D manner. So a ball hitting the heel of the glove or shin will have a chance of bouncing any which way – which does affect game play.

Here's maybe a more practical example. A complaint with 2K5 is the programming doesn't allow for foul tips. A big part of batting can be relying on foul balls to stay alive in an AB. With 2K5 though, that particular sim aspect of the game was non-existent.

I’m assuming with the memory next-gen consoles have, it’ll be possible for example to “map” the bat in a 3-D manner, in the same way a rag doll physics player model would be mapped. It should then be possible – with the requisite sliders of course – to set things like foul ball percentage, based on how and where the ball strikes the bat, and in relation to both the type of swing and the force with which the batter swings.

And it should be possible soon to do away with contact vs power swings, and instead incorporate some sort of swing system where the user pre-determines the “force” of the swing as the pitch approaches – maybe by pulling on a trigger or something. But that “swing force” would be directly interrelated to and with both the particular and specific player model or “body mapping”, along with the “bat mapping”. In other words, the number of variables determining the outcome of the swing or hit are multiplied many times over compared to current-gen games.

Personally, I can’t see sports games heading in any other direction -- unless we're talking EA ;) There’s only so many game modes and graphical enhancements they can come up with before gamers are going to start demanding real substance in their games – actual next-gen game play, in other words.

[BANG911]

Having a true life physics engine is something next-gen can accomplish. This has zero to do with graphics. Either way, MLB 2k6 didn't push the limit on their 360 version.

[baandje]

Having a true life physics engine is something next-gen can accomplish. This has zero to do with graphics. Either way, MLB 2k6 didn't push the limit on their 360 version.
And from all indications, they won't next year either. I think this is what we get for the next couple of years at least. Not that it's bad; but it's not even close to something one could call "revolutionary". It's "last gen"... with a few upgrades.

[Bears34]

Makes sense. Thanks for the replies .



I think this will all be clearer once games are being made that truly take advantage of the capabilities of the next gen systems. i dont think either of them yet even remotely come close to tapping the potential. Until then we are all only speculating on whats to come simply because nothing exists yet to benchmark against.

[sroz39]

The whole "rag-doll" physics discussion has been part of every next-gen sports game argument. It was especially loud in some of the Madden forums about Madden 360 not having a "real-time" physics engine.

In the end, I hate to say it, but I think that the 360 and the PS3 are STILL not meaty enough to incorporate rag-doll physics in sports games. Action games and the like are a different issue. But with sports games, we're talking large numbers of players on the field/court/rink that would all have to be individually programmed to have real-time physics and on top of that, still react realistically to make it seem like we're playing a real sport.

Sports games are by far the most difficult to show off next-gen capabilities, IMO. We watch this stuff on TV every night and we KNOW what the sport's are supposed to look like. With any other type of game, it is alot easier to wow us with "next-gen" programming, simply because our expectations are so much lower.

A game like G.R.A.W. is a perfect example. What happens in that game is not an every day occurence, so we have nothing to relate it to. The developers definitely made it a next-gen game though, first with the beautiful graphics and then with subtler touches like trees swaying when a grenade goes off near it, or the crazy reflections off the glass buildings. However we totally ignore the utter ridicilous running animations or the funny looking walking animations of our character as he goes up a slope. Not to mention the dumb-as-a-log A.I. of our teammates, who almost never look for cover or use logic when given orders.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I'm more of a realist when it comes sports games in general. Sure, I'd love to see real-time physics in all sports games, but I understand too that the casual fan doesn't give a hoot about it. They don't mind seeing the same animations over and over again, as long as they see things like the player faces being recognizable, or the jersey move when the player moves, or like most next-gen sports games are doing, making the stadiums and crowd a big part of their focus.

Bring on the "port"!

[Art1bk]

I really do think that this game will be great, but i must be honest. I also dont think that 2k pushed the limit as far as graphics. I feel they could have done much better. This is not a launch title.

[baandje]

I really do think that this game will be great, but i must be honest. I also dont think that 2k pushed the limit as far as graphics. I feel they could have done much better. This is not a launch title.
The launch was months ago, so it's not meant as a launch title. And I'm pointing that out because EA took advantage of the 360 launch and rushed out some putrid games, all in the name of $$$. Now that to me is worthy of "not a launch title" criticism.

As far as 2K6 goes, it's just one of any number of 360 games that have been released: a decent first effort; nothing spectacular. Stick around for 2K7 and let's judge then.

[baandje]

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I'm more of a realist when it comes sports games in general. Sure, I'd love to see real-time physics in all sports games, but I understand too that the casual fan doesn't give a hoot about it. They don't mind seeing the same animations over and over again, as long as they see things like the player faces being recognizable, or the jersey move when the player moves, or like most next-gen sports games are doing, making the stadiums and crowd a big part of their focus.
And realistically, I think game companies know this. Thus we get "new" Madden that plays exactly like old Madden, and apart from the shiny graphics, even looks like old Madden (squat, cartooney non-ragdoll player models). Or we get 2K putting their time and effort into features like arguing with umps, instead of fixing game play issues that have plagued the series for years (clunky game play, horrible animations and things like double switches, for example).

On the other hand, all that could change as other non-sports games become more sophisticated. And as they do, it seems to me gamers will start demanding an equally realistic upgrade in their sports games as well. I don't agree though that next-gen consoles can't handle ragdoll physics in sports games. Regardless, it doesn't look like any game company plans to implement something like that, anytime soon. They've probably already taken into account that gamers will be "wowed" by mere graphic upgrades in the next couple of years, so that's all they need to worry about for the time being.

[bostonredsox4life]

Hmmm not to bust on you all but i think many of the comments in this post are kinda usless. no one has played or ever seen enough of anything that the 360 version will show. so how can you say anything about gameplay or even graphics. I personally think 2k didn't max anything out on this game pushing the limitations of the 360 but we yet have to see anything saying or showing that the game hasn't been improved dramatically from last years version. I think we 360ers will all be surprised at release.

[fytemusik]

Hmmm not to bust on you all but i think many of the comments in this post are kinda usless. no one has played or ever seen enough of anything that the 360 version will show. so how can you say anything about gameplay or even graphics. I personally think 2k didn't max anything out on this game pushing the limitations of the 360 but we yet have to see anything saying or showing that the game hasn't been improved dramatically from last years version. I think we 360ers will all be surprised at release.
finally someone with some dag on sense. Pleez tell em' man. It's like the game came out a month ago and absolutely sucked and they have betas of 2k7 and that sux too. Jeez get a grip and play the game first.

[baandje]

Hmmm not to bust on you all but i think many of the comments in this post are kinda usless.
Well, if you go by that standard, 65% of the comments on this entire site fall into that catagory.

[baandje]

Jeez get a grip and play the game first.
Going back to the first post, I think I'm gonna have to agree. Pretty pointless opening comment: "Same gameplay, better graphics". Who knows how the game plays?

[VolcanoMan]

Ok, what in the F do you people want MLB2k6 X360 to be? OF COURSE IT IS A PORT. If you go back and look at the PS2 games when they first came out they were all ports from the PS1.

The point is, they have to start with a foundation. You think they threw everything out and started from scratch? Be glad that 2K first tries to include everything from current gen consoles on the new ones instead of EA's half fannying and throwing out half their features because it will take to long to convert over or just because it will "take more money".

Once they establish themselves on the new console then it will branch off in later iterations and it will then be more unique. Or better yet, they will eventually divert all development to the next gen and will not make the current gen titles anymore. It will happen, it is only a matter time. So please stop the madness and stick with the stone-age current gen games if you dont like it.

[Art1bk]

The launch was months ago, so it's not meant as a launch title. And I'm pointing that out because EA took advantage of the 360 launch and rushed out some putrid games, all in the name of $$$. Now that to me is worthy of "not a launch title" criticism.

As far as 2K6 goes, it's just one of any number of 360 games that have been released: a decent first effort; nothing spectacular. Stick around for 2K7 and let's judge then.

I agree with u, But my thing is. This game has been worked on for more then a year or at least a year. NBA2k6 was a launch title and according to many developers they didnt have the correct programing at the time to make the 360 games run at full potential. MY question is. What about this game? It's not a launch title so why couldnt it look better. I really like 2k but im just asking? It can be ported but u mean to tell me we have to wait another year so they can make the graphics good? I really dont get that and nobody here in these forums can come with a good answer for that one. Another question? What will happen if next year we dont see any graphical improvement because anything is possible? Will people say lets wait for 2k8?:confused:

[baandje]

MY question is. What about this game? It's not a launch title so why couldnt it look better. I really like 2k but im just asking?
My opinion? The people in charge of 2K6 have no idea what they're doing. There is SO MUCH that needed fixing from 2K5, yet what do they do? Add a bunch of "new features". And hey, I'm all for new features, but not when the basic game looks (animations mostly) and plays like c.rap. And so they end up with another half-game... just like 2K5 was. Sorry, but I honestly believe the answer to your question is "simple incompetence".

[orthostud23]

I say we make comments on the game AFTER the game is released and after we have sat and played a few games to see how it works. Just my 2cents!!