crowd?

[JJT21]

Has anyone ever seen a crowd that actually follows the puck (hockey) or the ball in basketball? like in this screenshot, it seems to me like the puck is down the ice, but he just shot it. I hope eventually the crowd will follow the puck to make it more lifelike.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/829/829743/img_3781443.html

[sleepytercel]

While if done right, it would look great, but it still beats the poorly animated bitmapped crowds of many other sports games. Heck, even Winning Eleven still uses such poor crowd graphics. I think MLB2K6 current gen does too.

[hesk]

true. i see what jjt21 is saying though as if the crowd is checkin to see if the goalie stop the shot. i think it can be done though. i mean even in b-ball u may only follow the ball on important shots. other than that ur mostly watching the action of the players, but yeah if the fans actually followed the action along with reacting to it, it would be awesome!

[JJT21]

Yea i know the crowd is getting nice, and that's great, love it. But I mean if your home team and your goalie makes a save, they can clap or get up or something. If they score look disappointed, and be quiet. Im sure there would be a way to make most of the faces follow the puck and the play

[gohabs93]

Xbox 360 games are almost all 8.5 GB. Since 360 did not choose to go with HD dvd media and have more space, anything they would do would sacrifice texture. Maybe you will see it on the next year version of ps3. Did you see the E3 demonstration of NBA? How the players move and the ways their eyes move, with blue ray and the capabilities of the ps3, they will be able to do it with the crowds.

[ColdForged]

Xbox 360 games are almost all 8.5 GB. Since 360 did not choose to go with HD dvd media and have more space, anything they would do would sacrifice texture.

First, most Xbox 360 games aren't near 8.5GB. Here's an article (http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=1132) discussing disc space usage. If you have a source for your claim I'd be interested to see it.

But more importantly, what does DVD capacity have to do with having the crowd follow the action? The crowd has plenty of texture and detail already, you don't need more. "All" you'd have to do is have the polygons that make up the heads of the crowds point at where the puck is currently located. Why didn't they do that? Calculation time. Even with 100 visible people in the crowds, that's an additional normal calculation and rotation of, what, 10 or twenty polygons. Per crowd member. Right now the crowd is fairly static. Sure, they move around according to the action but they're canned animations. Adding a dynamic element based on the location of an object on the playing surface takes processor time. Processor time that increases linearly for every visible member of the crowd. Processor time that's better spent on other things.

[SDonahue]

Am I the only one that thinks they should improve gameplay before dealing with such issues as the CROWD lol.

[JJT21]

the gameplay's always just gonna keep slightly getting better year after year, how long has gaming been out? And we still have to ask, make the gameplay better, make the gameplay better. You don't think they know this? lol. If they make the an almost perfect game, there's still gonna be everyone saying, why not this why not that it would make it "perfect". There will always be complaints about the game and the gameplay so why not talk about other things in the game. Like in Nba2k6 with all the sweat etc making the game more real, That's not "gameplay" but people like it and feel more in the game. moral of this, every year... still gonna have to ask... make the gameplay better....

[SDonahue]

When you are playing a sports game do you actually look at the crowd, do you check the players to see if they are sweating? Of course you don't because you are playing the game. When you are into a fast paced game you can't see **** like that because you are too busy playing. The only time **** like that is seen is during replays, and even then.......who doesn't just skip them right away.

[JJT21]

if you wanna enjoy the whole game experience you play and watch everything for the game. Even I do skip the stuff eventually after playin for so long of a time, but when that stuff happens it would be awesome if it actually looked real. I didn't say make the crowd follow the puck while the play is on, cuz your right your not paying attention to that, but when there is a replay it should look nice. make it feel real.

[SDonahue]

I see where you're going with this. All I am saying is that in an industry that is dieing for change, putting effort into something like that at this point would be a step back.

[JJT21]

I dunno why it would be back, but it's cool. I just wish they would fully use the capabilities of new systems when they come out.

[SDonahue]

I dunno why it would be back, but it's cool. I just wish they would fully use the capabilities of new systems when they come out.
I can agree with you on that.

[gohabs93]

[QUOTE=ColdForged]First, most Xbox 360 games aren't near 8.5GB. Here's an article (http://www.gamesfirst.com/?id=1132) discussing disc space usage. If you have a source for your claim I'd be interested to see it.

Most of the games now are over 8 GB slightly less. Nhl 2k6 is 7.2GB. I have backed up alot of games and none after the ones mentionned in that article is less than 7gb.

[gohabs93]

ok I made a mistake about the sizes, I forgot to take off the raw dump. Anyways, there is a difference between a game compatible with HD (that shows at 1080i,720p) and a game that is fully HD. For example, Top spin it plays on an HD resolution, but the only thing HD in the game are the faces of the Tennis players. HD textures textures require alot of space. When you read that the game is HD, its just the resolution of the whole game, but th textures arent HD. I dont think you will se a difference between 360 games and ps3 games in the first year, but after you will. PS3 will also have HD cut scenes! When you go to xbox live Market place, and look at the difference in size between a 580p video and a 720p one.

[ColdForged]

When you go to xbox live Market place, and look at the difference in size between a 580p video and a 720p one.

480p, by the way.

Yes, PS3 will be able to store more HD cutscenes than the Xbox 360. For games that are prerendered cutscene heavy this will make a difference.

Yes, textures take up space. But, if you do your cutscenes in-engine instead of relying on prerendered movies (e.g. Halo 2), you'd easily have gigabytes available for highly detailed textures. And with advances in procedural textures and other detail-creating tricks the necessity for gigabytes of textures is reduced anyway.

However, what does the ability to store more prerendered cutscenes have to do with animating the crowd? There's already enough texture detail... they have eyes, don't they? ;)

[gohabs93]

lol yeah just wanted to bring up the subject. Well, Xbox 360 games are just HD in resolution and not in texture. Anyways, about the crowd, I never looked at them :P

[ColdForged]

Xbox 360 games are just HD in resolution and not in texture.

Both machines -- PS3 and Xbox 360 -- are perfectly capable of storing, loading, and rendering high resolution texture maps. It all depends on the priorities of the particular developer. Gears Of War has some very nice textures (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/747891/img_3746189.html) (on the 360), Mobile Suit Gundam has some (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748465/img_3799622.html) too. For that matter, compare images of the same game: Xbox 360 (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/801/801849/img_3733513.html) versus PS3 (http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/801/801848/img_3738515.html).

Please don't fall for the hype! They're both extremely capable machines. Saying one can't do something as trivial as use high resolution textures is, frankly, uninformed. Now, can you store more high resolution textures on the PS3's Blu Ray drive? Yup. But that doesn't mean the 360 is incapable of using them. Don't mistake one for the other.

I know your argument about the second stream of games for the PS3 taking more advantage and that's certainly true. But again, don't parrot talking points about "true HD" and all that. They are both capable of it.

[gohabs93]

Yes they are both capable, it is just that Xbox 360 cant store alot of HD texture (background, all the characters detailed.etc). On 360 the only thing you will see hd is maybe the faces, or the main characters. I think that we start seing 20gb+ games 2 years after the release of ps3. SO the first 2 years, the games will almost look the same on 360 and on ps3. But ps3 processor is also better. I have a AMD 3800 with ATI X800 GTO graphic card, and It runs alot better and the textures are better than on the 360.Also on the 360 it lags alot. PS3 also you characters will have more emotions and will be aware of their surrounding. When the next NBA LIVE game comes out, you will notice the difference between the ps3 and xbox version in terms of player awareness. So imagine a hockey game with HD texture crowd,players, coaches (could be done on 360), but a full hd texture (background,characters,weapons,etc) game, it wont happen. I will also get a ps3,but if you people had both ps3 and xbox, which version (starting 2k8) would you pick up? I think that nhl 2k7 for ps3 will be as bugged as the nh2k6 for Xbox 360.........nothing to say about Wii :P