Constructive Criticism For Top Spin 2

[tricky989]

I dont know if 2k sports still cares about this game or whether a admin still monitors this board, but I thought I'd just put down some of the key things 2k sports could fix in the future for this game. Just so you know, I am a tennis addict, I have competed, watched, and played videogames of it since I was 6 years old. I'm pretty sure I've played every tennis game in existence(literally). Anywho, back on topic:


Problem #1: Created Players in Exhibition and Tournament Mode
I have started and completed(well at least for the most part, once I win all the slams and get the number 1 ranking I quit, current record is achieving it by august of the 2nd season), but one thing still bothers me. I CANT PLAY AGAINST MY CREATED PLAYER. Its something just blatantly left out of the game that I really dont understand. On top of that, you cant even use created players in tournament mode, which defeats the purpose of having the 16-slot tournament mode(theres only 12 male players...). This one still puzzles and irritates me. If anyone could explain it to me that would be brilliant.


Problem #2: AI Difficulty
Maybe I'm unique in that I've never had trouble beating the AI since the day I picked it up, but I really dont think so. Career mode seems to actually be on medium difficulty, which I dont understand and the "hard" difficulty in exhibition really isnt that hard. I think theres just a few gaps in the gameplay that attribute to this. Things like your player or the computers player just giving up on balls that they could easily reach make things way too easy sometimes(you know that little trot, "I give up" thing). Have them dive or something, I dont care, but anythings better than just having them give up. Also, its very easy to get risk serves back in play with a solid return. The slice serve is probably the most useful serve because it actually forces a person to move, while on a flat they can sit still and still hit a great return. Realistically, unless I'm Roger Federer, if Andy Roddick hits a 146 MPH serve, I'm not going to be able to chip a return back to his baseline, I'm going to hit either a short ball or a forced error. Same applies to hard shots at the baseline(other than risk baseline/volley shots).


Problem #3: Tennis Research
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that 2k sports did not hire a tennis expert on staff. Just things like certain characters stats/strengths are off the mark and other gameplay gaps. One thing I'd like to see in a videogame is the "Twist Kick Serve." The Kick serve is a high bouncing serve(on a hardcourt a good kicker bounces about 6-6.5 ft) that either pushes opponents back or forces them to attack(easier said than done). A "Twist Kick Serve," which is what most pro's use on their second serve and some on their first, is a kick serve that not only bounces 6-6.5ft, but also spins the opposite direction of the "slice" serve. So for righties it spins to the right, and for lefties it spins to the left. The game does have the "B" serve but that A) Spins the wrong direction and B) Doesn't bounce any either than the other serves. I plead to you that if and when you make a sequel, hire a tennis expert to assist you. Heck, I would do it for free if it would improve the state of tennis games.

Problem #4: Sounds
Since the dawn of tennis videogames, creators have failed to capture the actual sound of the ball hitting the racquet. This honestly isnt that difficult, and I think lazyness plays a factor in its inexplicable abscence.

Problem #5: The Crowd and the Untangibles
The crowd definitely cheers, but its rarely relevant to what is actually going on in the match. The park/outdoor courts have awesome enviromental/crowd effects, but the stadiums do not. Also, even during the finals of a grandslam the stadium is still pretty empty, which doesnt make much sense.


Dont get me wrong, I love this game, but the things listed above have started to make it boring for me. I cant play online because of the location of my TV, so I'm somewhat limited in gameplay I guess, but I dont think I'm alone in this. This is my 2 cents, you can either ignore it, take note of it, or not read it at all its your choice 2k. Cheers!

[voltenbas]

well said. i agree with everything you have in here. there are a few more things I would like to see though.

1. The actual stroke style of the pro players. They have the serves down but it really bothers me to see Davenport (whose strokes are the nicest ever) hitting like that.

2. They animate the players talking but no noise is heard. That sucks.

3. Unique squeals. Having 3 in create a player doesn't cut it.

4. Something needs to be done about the empty lt+x shot.

5. The serve and volley game is horrendous. Even on an amazing serve there is no way you can get to the net. And when you're at the net, you basically get slaughtered because of the following complaint.

6. If a shot is angeled enough and you're on the run, they do that one running shot where you can't put any angle on it. Same thing happens at the net. Keep that in there but allow for some angle because in real life it isn't impossible to do. It's rather easy even though you'll still be out of position.

7. Everyone complains about the player running right through the ball even though it's right at their feet. They complain because they are right there and should be able to hit it. This occurs on shots that real pros wouldn't even attempt to pursue so the intent is fine I just wish the player wouldn't try to reach it either. I know you guys can fix that because once your player has hit a guaranteed winner, you can't control him even though it hasn't passed the other player. Infact, they even celebrate a bit early.

8. Bigger selection of clothes.

9. More real players. It'd be awesome to see my name amongst all those pros.

10. In career player creation:
- allow for editing the eye shape.
- stroke styles
- more voice choices possibly create your own

11. Ball boys that actually grab the ball.

12. I know they couldn't have included this because it's brand new but when they make the next one, i'm sure they'll include shot spot and the challenges.

13. Different racquets suit different games. Racquets should imitate real-life counterparts.

[truthiness]

I agree with your comments, but there's bigger, more simple issues here.

Yes, players move at a constant speed--they don't sprint, just jog. Odd.

But worst, the game encourages you to play in a way you'd always lose in real life. For example, one good game strategy is to play in "no mans land" (the area between the baseline & service line). In real life, however, you'd get creamed because it's very difficult just to play a ball landing near your feet (tennis 101). But in the game, no problem, just hit a winner.

In fact, there's so many ridiculous winners you can hit from positions where it's impossible in real life (at least with any consistency). The game engine should take this into account. Like, if you're standing in "no mans land" & the ball bounces very close to you, then lower the chances the player will hit the ball back, make it a weaker shot, etc. In fact, you can hit stronger shots from any ball hit on the rise (like that bounce just in front of you) which, again, is just not realistic. Or you'll see them hit winner swinging volleys off balls at their toes from the service line. The game just makes extraordinary shots routine.

There's a lot of repetitious animations, cut scenes, & sounds...& there's no replay? So you win a great point, well, you'll never see it again. C'mon.

Finally, please speed up the time after a service fault: Do we really need to watch the players standing around?!?

That said, there's some cool innovation in this game, & it's beautiful. While the environments & players are quite realistic, the play, unfortunately, is not. But, it's the best I've played so far :)

[truthiness]

Oh, forgot to mention something. It would be really helpful to have a practice area where you could hone your skills/improve your timing. Exhibition mode is helpful, but like in real tennis, drills are more effective in improving your strokes, especially when you're just starting out. Thanks!

[Prince_RIP4eVa]

Also..
1. No diving shots(shouldn't happen often, but stiill)
2. Why are the only 2 ways it doesn't go out are if you hold a direction toolong with topspin or slice or it hits the net?? They're should be duffed shots, especially on tough ones to get. There should be shots that go long, you know what i'm gettin at.
3. A shouldn't ALWAYS go in

[Xboxing2006]

Good stuff in this thread.

[tricky989]

Again, I dont know if anyone from 2k even reads the posts on the forums, but considering they do occasionally respond to emails, I still have hope. I haven't been on this forum for awhile because my post was the newest for about a week so I figured this was a ghost forum, but I checked back, and much to my surprise there have been some great posts. My list before was kind of brief, so heres a more in depth one of things that could/should be there in the game and certain bugs that aren't as noticable to the non-tennis playing gamer:


Skills
First and foremost, "focus" should just be removed from the game. It is already easy enough to hit risk serves and for the most part, regular risk shots. Not to mention, focus really doesn't do much anyways. I have yet to create a character with even a single star in focus. If you made risk serves a fair amount harder(I would suggest creating an entirely different meter altogether), then I suppose focus would be pretty neat, but right now it is pretty useless. Secondly, lets be honest, "Spins" doesn't actually do anything. I've had theories for months on its use, but after creating a character with a 0 in Spins, I have concluded that the difference is very small b/w the spin shots/serves of the 0 star and the spin shots/serves of a 10 star character I have. I like the idea of spins, but right now its pointless. I dont know if programmers look to other games for ideas, but in Smash Court Tennis: Pro Tournament 2 on the playstation 2, there is a top spin stat and a slice stat. If you increase the top spin stat, the ball bounces higher and can angle off better on top spin shots. If you increase the slice shot, the ball goes lower, deeper, and can angle off better on slice shots. Both of which are very useful and make a character more unique. Spin serve stats could also be another option, like you could have a "kick serve stat(refer to original post)" or a "slice serve stat" or just one that includes both(less uniqueness but probably easier).


Play Styles
I'm not sure how they did it, but Tennis 2k2 on the sega dreamcast somehow managed to make every style of play smooth and easy to use. Serving and Volleying was equally as effective as baselining. Part of the problem in Top Spin 2 is that the characters back up a lot when they hit, making it very difficult to move forward. It is also very difficult to move forward off the serve due to a awkard pause following the serves follow through where you cant move. I've created a serve and volley character and he's very effective, but it really doesnt look like serving and volleying and getting to the net is a complex operation. If theres something you can take from Tennis 2k2, let it be their overhead(best on any game to date), their volley animations, and their forward movement. One thing it doesnt have is a finesse factor; in other words, drop volleys and short angle volleys. They both are incredibly hard to hit in tennis 2k2, so maybe that would be something to include in a possible sequel to Top Spin 2.

I'm getting kind of tired right now. I'll check back in a day or 2 and if theres any activity here I'll post a few more of my ideas/constructive criticisms. Cheers!

[voltenbas]

if you up the spin stars, you can hit a much more extreme short angle. no spin, the ball doesn't get as much of an angle. but that's about it. i haven't noticed it doing anything when you hit the ball deep.